F.I.G.H.T. - Haganah: I start classes tonight. - GoFuckYourself.com

eroswebmaster · 09-13-2004, 10:20 AM

Escort Biz posted about this on another thread last week and found out they had a school here...so I'm starting classes tonight.

http://www.fight2survive.com

Been almost 12 years since I was involved with any kind of martial arts and this really piqued my interest.

Talked to the instructor over the phone and did some research and this sounds like some intense shit.

You learn to use 1 of 3 things for every situation....either restrain, incapacitate, or terminate.

Anthony_A · 09-13-2004, 10:23 AM

Great.

When they teach you to poke out eyes and rip out throats, ask them how many times they have actually done it in a real combat or close to reality situation.

eroswebmaster · 09-13-2004, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anthony_A
Great.

When they teach you to poke out eyes and rip out throats, ask them how many times they have actually done it in a real combat or close to reality situation.

The local instructor may not have, but the guy who started the F.I.G.H.T. system did plenty of it..and hopefully I will be able to attend some of his seminars.

SykkBoy · 09-13-2004, 10:36 AM

note to self: no more sticking eroswebmaster with the tab at dinner....

Anthony_A · 09-13-2004, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
The local instructor may not have, but the guy who started the F.I.G.H.T. system did plenty of it..and hopefully I will be able to attend some of his seminars.

My grandfather told me he did the same thing in WWII.

Of course, there's no way of really verifying that.

Trying to poke someone's eyes out while they are on top of you is pretty hard. Even when standing up. Get some goggles and try them for yourself with a buddy while he's choking you or throwing punches.

Don't get me wrong, any training versus no training is good. But be wary of RBSD (Reality Based Self Defense).

Some of them are pure Mc Dojo.

Anthony_A · 09-13-2004, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
The local instructor may not have, but the guy who started the F.I.G.H.T. system did plenty of it..and hopefully I will be able to attend some of his seminars.

Oh forgot to add.

If your local instructor has never poked any eyes out or ripped any throats out in a fight...

Then how does he/she knows it works?

While someone is trying to beat the shit out of you?

If you don't train 100 percent alive, then you are wasting your time with drills.

Alive = Fully resisting partner.

eroswebmaster · 09-13-2004, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anthony_A
Oh forgot to add.

If your local instructor has never poked any eyes out or ripped any throats out in a fight...

Then how does he/she knows it works?

While someone is trying to beat the shit out of you?

If you don't train 100 percent alive, then you are wasting your time with drills.

Alive = Fully resisting partner.

This person is certified by the man who developed the F.I.G.H.T. system. Do a bit of research on the haganah system, and the F.I.G.H.T. system..the guy who created the F.I.G.H.T. system trains D.E.A., C.I.A., and many other law enforcement agencies.

I think you're honestly reading way too much into this...LOL

I am looking for an intense self defense program that is not about showy kicks, or breaking boards, but that is based in how to handle real life situations...at the same time increasing my physical fitness.

They have classes 2 nights a week, and then for the advanced students they have sparring one night a week.

Anthony_A · 09-13-2004, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
This person is certified by the man who developed the F.I.G.H.T. system. Do a bit of research on the haganah system, and the F.I.G.H.T. system..this guy trains D.E.A., C.I.A., and many other law enforcement agencies.

I think you're honestly reading way too much into this...LOL

I am looking for an intense self defense program that is not about showy kicks, or breaking boards, but that is based in how to handle real life situations...at the same time increasing my physical fitness.

They have classes 2 nights a week, and then for the advanced students they have sparring one night a week.

Don't need to read about them, his site reads like 100 other RBSD sites out there.

Too deadly for the street, trained the CIA, FBI, Blah blah blah.

Good luck, hope all that time and money you put into it you get back.

It would suck imo, using a technique you learned from them that all the sudden doesn't work when you are being attacked.

eroswebmaster · 09-13-2004, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anthony_A
Don't need to read about them, his site reads like 100 other RBSD sites out there.

Too deadly for the street, trained the CIA, FBI, Blah blah blah.

Good luck, hope all that time and money you put into it you get back.

It would suck imo, using a technique you learned from them that all the sudden doesn't work when you are being attacked.

Are you familiar with Haganah at all?

This is the bio of the guy who started the F.I.G.H.T. System:

Founder's History

Summary

* Israeli Special Forces Combat Veteran - 3 Years
* Fifth Degree Black Belt- Joe Lewis American Full Contact Karate
* Fourth Degree Black Belt- Survival Hisardut
* First Degree Black Belt- Krav Maga
* Blue Belt- Brazilian Jui-Jitsu
* Certified Muay Thai Kickboxing Instructor
* Self-Defense Instructor of the Year-Florida Martial Arts Brotherhood Hall of Fame
* Combat Shooting Expert
* Tactical Knife Fighting Expert

Detailed Background
Mike is a former Israeli Special Operations Group Commando of the battle-hardened Golani Brigade and a world class Hand-to-Hand Combat instructor. His hard-core small team Special Ops unit operated behind enemy lines typically alone and miles from backup. In south Lebanon they terminated terrorists and destroyed their headquarters. In the West Bank during the first Intifada they went house to house capturing key militants and controlling street riots. Extreme violence was daily routine. Mike brings to the table this knowledge and his 20 years of full contact martial arts experience to teach you to devastate an attacker fast.

Born Lee Van Hong in Saigon in 1967 to a Vietnamese mother and an American father proudly serving his country during the Vietnam War, at age six months Mike was adopted by a Jewish family in Belgium and given the name Michel Kanarek. In 1977, Michel's father, Emil Kanarek, moved his family to Israel. He had been a volunteer soldier in the Israeli Independence War in 1948, belonging to the "Palmach Brigades" in one of the "Haganah" units (the Haganah system is named in his honor). His regiment freed Jerusalem in that war. Between the ages of 6 and 18, Mike studied judo and then karate until joining the IDF at age 18 in 1985. After serving three years as a Special Forces member in Orev Golani (one of the most elite commando units in the IDF) where he was extensively trained in KAPAP among other combative methodologies and technologies, Mike was honorably discharged as an outstanding soldier. He then worked as a high profile security professional for a private Israeli security company until he could afford to immigrate to the United States. For more than 10 years since arriving in the United States Mike has taught combat based self defense skills to civilians, military and law enforcement professionals, including Secret Service, FBI and DEA agents, SWAT team members, Navy SEALS, and many local law enforcement professionals. He regularly provides specialty courses in Israeli Combat Shooting, Counter Terrorist Tactics, Israeli Tactical Knife Fighting and many specially requested private courses. He is a survivor of many unarmed engagements and lives with gunshot and knife wounds. In addition to his hand-to-hand and 'hot' weapons expertise, he is a respected specialist in tactical knife applications.

In addition to his military training in KAPAP and more recent training in LOTAR, Mike Lee Kanarek has trained under Mr. Joe Lewis for nearly 10 years, and is a fifth degree black belt in Joe Lewis American Full Contact Karate. He holds a fourth degree black belt in Survival Hisardut under Moti Horenstein, Muay Thai King Cup Super Heavyweight World Champion and SHIDOKAN Super Heavyweight U.S. Champion. He holds a first degree black belt in Krav Maga under Rhon Mizrachi, the highest ranking most experienced Israeli IDF veteran Krav Maga instructor in the U.S. as of this writing. Mike is a fully certified Muay Thai Kickboxing instructor and holds other belts, including a blue belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. He has been recognized as The Self-Defense Instructor of the Year by the Florida Martial Arts Brotherhood Hall of Fame and has numerous other awards and recognitions.

His passion is bringing together the best elements of various practical combat fighting arts as taught by world-class instructors, adding militarily tested elements, and teaching them to law abiding citizens in the fastest most effective way possible to enable them to come home safe each day. He has seen more violence than anyone should have to, and has learned how to overcome it. He brings that experience to you.

EscortBiz · 09-13-2004, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anthony_A
Don't need to read about them, his site reads like 100 other RBSD sites out there.

Too deadly for the street, trained the CIA, FBI, Blah blah blah.

Good luck, hope all that time and money you put into it you get back.

It would suck imo, using a technique you learned from them that all the sudden doesn't work when you are being attacked.

dpnt blah blah blah if you dont know fuckin facts

eroswebmaster · 09-13-2004, 11:05 AM

Of course I'm not training under the founder...but when I find the extra time I will definitely make my way down to one of his seminars in Florida...but for now I'll settle for the cheaper version of learning in Vegas...LOL

Manowar · 09-13-2004, 11:09 AM

have fun man

Anthony_A · 09-13-2004, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EscortBiz
dpnt blah blah blah if you dont know fuckin facts

RBSD, I keep forgetting is for the street and is too dangerous for the ring.

dig420 · 09-13-2004, 11:23 AM

Anthony knows the facts, he trains in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, a REAL martial art. Haganah is just like JKD and shit, they throw anything together and give it a name and some big guy with a lot of tats starts making money 'teaching' it.

If it worked there would be a shitload of haganah fighters in the ring, but there's not. They all use BJJ and MT.

That being said, I know from personal experience that a Bruce Lee fan will always be a Bruce Lee fan and there will always be people who believe in the Touch of Death, so have fun in the McDojo and never, never ask your instructor why he isn't fighting in Pride.

eroswebmaster · 09-13-2004, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dig420
Anthony knows the facts, he trains in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, a REAL martial art. Haganah is just like JKD and shit, they throw anything together and give it a name and some big guy with a lot of tats starts making money 'teaching' it.

If it worked there would be a shitload of haganah fighters in the ring, but there's not. They all use BJJ and MT.

That being said, I know from personal experience that a Bruce Lee fan will always be a Bruce Lee fan and there will always be people who believe in the Touch of Death, so have fun in the McDojo and never, never ask your instructor why he isn't fighting in Pride.

I think you're comparing apples to oranges.

I am not going to train to fight in the octagon...LOL if I was I would focus on BJJ...I am training to defend myself on the street.

I took JuiJitsu years ago and I know right now my body could not withstand the falls and rollouts so it's not something I'm interested in at this point.

Anthony_A · 09-13-2004, 11:28 AM

The founder supposedly trained BJJ and is Blue Belt, for lack of a good explanation, the equivelent of a black belt in any other martial art.

Yet, I can't find his name any where listed as a Blue Belt. I wonder why?

dig420 · 09-13-2004, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
This person is certified by the man who developed the F.I.G.H.T. system. Do a bit of research on the haganah system, and the F.I.G.H.T. system..the guy who created the F.I.G.H.T. system trains D.E.A., C.I.A., and many other law enforcement agencies.

I think you're honestly reading way too much into this...LOL

I am looking for an intense self defense program that is not about showy kicks, or breaking boards, but that is based in how to handle real life situations...at the same time increasing my physical fitness.

They have classes 2 nights a week, and then for the advanced students they have sparring one night a week.

I remember you from the thread the other night. You seem to be a decent guy. Here's some info you should use before you start investing in self-defense regarding the Gracie Challenge - the Gracies never said they were too dangerous to actually fight someone, they offered to pay ANYONE who could beat a Gracie a good payday. Many tried, none collected.

All these other mysterio eastern bullshit systems are just bullshit, the only part that works in them is the BJJ they always incorporate.

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...acie+challenge

Anthony_A · 09-13-2004, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
I think you're comparing apples to oranges.

I am not going to train to fight in the octagon...LOL if I was I would focus on BJJ...I am training to defend myself on the street.

I took JuiJitsu years ago and I know right now my body could not withstand the falls and rollouts so it's not something I'm interested in at this point.

You took Japanese JJ.

You can compare them a Macintosh Apple and a Red Apple. Both Apples, but different flavors.

I can't remember the last time I was thrown in BJJ. Probably because it is a ground fighting/grappling art.

dig420 · 09-13-2004, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
I think you're comparing apples to oranges.

I am not going to train to fight in the octagon...LOL if I was I would focus on BJJ...I am training to defend myself on the street.

I took JuiJitsu years ago and I know right now my body could not withstand the falls and rollouts so it's not something I'm interested in at this point.

There is no difference between fighting in the street and fighting in the ring, Gracies fought anyone, anywhere and BJJ wins. Every time. The only way to really learn to fight is to train in the dojo like you're fighting in the street and BJJ is the only way to do that.

dig420 · 09-13-2004, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
I think you're comparing apples to oranges.

I am not going to train to fight in the octagon...LOL if I was I would focus on BJJ...I am training to defend myself on the street.

I took JuiJitsu years ago and I know right now my body could not withstand the falls and rollouts so it's not something I'm interested in at this point.

That's the same as saying boxing doesn't work in the street because you won't be wearing gloves. The only difference between dojo BJJ and street BJJ is in the streets the guy doesn't get to tap out before you break his arm.

eroswebmaster · 09-13-2004, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dig420
There is no difference between fighting in the street and fighting in the ring, Gracies fought anyone, anywhere and BJJ wins. Every time. The only way to really learn to fight is to train in the dojo like you're fighting in the street and BJJ is the only way to do that.

Well this system has worked for the Israeli army for quite sometime..so I think it's safe to say it's fine. ;)

eroswebmaster · 09-13-2004, 11:34 AM

Let me ask you guys something...why the fuck are you so interested in my choice? LOL

Do you wanna know where I shop too so you can debate that?

How about the kind of car I want to buy, books I want to read...jesus fucking christ get a fucking life...LOL

Nowhere on this thread have I stated one is better than the other...just posted what I planned on doing and have had to defend that now for a couple of hours.

Anthony_A · 09-13-2004, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
Well this system has worked for the Israeli army for quite sometime..so I think it's safe to say it's fine. ;)

Really?

I thought it was Krav Maga, which nowadays you can get certified fast and inexspensive to teach.

squeezeboobs · 09-13-2004, 11:37 AM

Another defense medium is Combat Conditioning? by Matt Furey.
http://www.mattfurey.com

Anthony_A · 09-13-2004, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
Let me ask you guys something...why the fuck are you so interested in my choice? LOL

Do you wanna know where I shop too so you can debate that?

How about the kind of car I want to buy, books I want to read...jesus fucking christ get a fucking life...LOL

Nowhere on this thread have I stated one is better than the other...just posted what I planned on doing and have had to defend that now for a couple of hours.

I can pretty easily answer it for you.

I was in your shoes when I was younger. I wasted alot of time and money studying bullshit martial arts that do not work in the real world.

You can do whatever you want, train however way. There should be enough holes here for you to go check yourself.

A blue belt in BJJ yet isn't listed at BJJ.ORG should tell you something.

eroswebmaster · 09-13-2004, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anthony_A
Really?

I thought it was Krav Maga, which nowadays you can get certified fast and inexspensive to teach.

You haven't read anything on that site have you?

dig420 · 09-13-2004, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
Well this system has worked for the Israeli army for quite sometime..so I think it's safe to say it's fine. ;)

Rorion trains BJJ to the Israelis.

The Israelis aren't any tougher hand to hand than an american Marine, nor is a Navy Seal. That's all kid stuff to believe there's some kind of super soldier shit out there. Your average college football player drunk in a bar will fuck them up all day long.

dig420 · 09-13-2004, 11:40 AM

and that's all I have to say, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink.

Enjoy becoming a Ninja!!

eroswebmaster · 09-13-2004, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dig420
Rorion trains BJJ to the Israelis.

The Israelis aren't any tougher hand to hand than an american Marine, nor is a Navy Seal. That's all kid stuff to believe there's some kind of super soldier shit out there. Your average college football player drunk in a bar will fuck them up all day long.

No my point was the techniques that are taught int he FIGHT system are some of the same techniques that are used in real life situations by real life soldiers..

LOL this reminds me of those funny martial arts movies on saturday afternoons...where the two guys square off at each other...

"huhn...my kung fu is better than your kung fu."

Anthony_A · 09-13-2004, 11:44 AM

Haganah does neither. Haganah, an Israeli system developed by Israeli Special Forces veteran and world-class martial artist, Mike Lee Kanarek, is practical, can be learned by just about anyone in any condition in just a few months, and can be completely absorbed quickly.

********

Where does that say Krav Maga anywhere on it?

What does Mike lee Kanarek, Jim Wagner, Jerry Peterson, and Sammy Franco all have in common?

All are founders of this new and undefeatable martial art, that can take out ppl better trained, better shape, better everything than little ole out of shape you, that you can learn.

Good luck to you, I've wasted enough time in this thread.

dig420 · 09-13-2004, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
No my point was the techniques that are taught int he FIGHT system are some of the same techniques that are used in real life situations by real life soldiers..

LOL this reminds me of those funny martial arts movies on saturday afternoons...where the two guys square off at each other...

"huhn...my kung fu is better than your kung fu."

last word: Gracies fought - actually FOUGHT - everyone who wanted to step up and prove their art. Nobody ever beat BJJ. EVER.

And Kung Fu is a bigger joke than Ninjitsu, and that's saying something.

eroswebmaster · 09-13-2004, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anthony_A
Haganah does neither. Haganah, an Israeli system developed by Israeli Special Forces veteran and world-class martial artist, Mike Lee Kanarek, is practical, can be learned by just about anyone in any condition in just a few months, and can be completely absorbed quickly.

********

Where does that say Krav Maga anywhere on it?

What does Mike lee Kanarek, Jim Wagner, Jerry Peterson, and Sammy Franco all have in common?

All are founders of this new and undefeatable martial art, that can take out ppl better trained, better shape, better everything than little ole out of shape you, that you can learn.

Good luck to you, I've wasted enough time in this thread.

Jesus dude you need to get a clue and a life...let me put a package together for you.

The guy is and I quote " First Degree Black Belt- Krav Maga" Also former

And you make the sarcastic comment about it being an undefeatable martial arts as if to say BJJ would allow me to do those things...I call bullshit on both.

There will always be someone bigger and better with you at some point in life...if you haven't learned that in your experiences in BJJ then you haven't learned shit.

I don't expect to walk away from this being a "ninja." I don't expect to walk away from this being the equivalent of a navy seal...but I do expect to walk away from this being a bit more prepared than your average gangbanger, troublemaker, burgular etc.

So step off the Gracie cock just a bit and open your mind.

jade_dragon · 09-13-2004, 11:58 AM

No military force really trains hard in hand to hand, they learn only very basic hand to hand, simple and to the point movements to be used against other gun carrying people who have also learned very simple and straight forward hang to hand. FBI and CIA train a little more in it than basic military units but I would like you to pull up some pictures of FBI and CIA agenst and look at their build as well as their dresscode and movements. Do they really look like they are about to go toe to toe with you or are they going to use a service side arm or close assault weapon to kill you and roll with plenty of backup? Police and military do not put a huge emphasis on hand to hand combat, this has been proven time and time again.

All I can say is I hope you do not learn anything that will get you hurt on the streets. Unlike most of these systems, asian martial arts teach you about spirituality and part of it is all about how to use your brain to avoid fights, I find that this is lost in these "fight like the military boys" systems.

Here is a way to tell if you are learning crap. Instructor has not trained in the origins of the system.

Trainer says things like If they do this Then you do this or this or this or this. If there are scenarios for everything this is a paper system. True systems teach instantaneous and flexible reaction to opponents, if you are not flowing with the opponent you are thinking and processing speeds are slower then reactionary speeds.

If you do not leave the class the first day feeling like you have been handed a weapon that can easily be used to help your odds in a fight then the system is "Slow". Any grand master of any martial art is going to be a better fighter than the average person, but how many years of intense training did they have to put in to get that fighting effective. How many years are you going to put in before you are even 25% as effective?

If the instructor is under 30 it is a big flare unless he/she went striaght from highschool into training. No one who went to college and had a job while training has seriously had enough experience and intense mental focus on the system to be handing it down to others.

dig420 · 09-13-2004, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
Jesus dude you need to get a clue and a life...let me put a package together for you.

The guy is and I quote " First Degree Black Belt- Krav Maga" Also former

And you make the sarcastic comment about it being an undefeatable martial arts as if to say BJJ would allow me to do those things...I call bullshit on both.

There will always be someone bigger and better with you at some point in life...if you haven't learned that in your experiences in BJJ then you haven't learned shit.

I don't expect to walk away from this being a "ninja." I don't expect to walk away from this being the equivalent of a navy seal...but I do expect to walk away from this being a bit more prepared than your average gangbanger, troublemaker, burgular etc.

So step off the Gracie cock just a bit and open your mind.

The problem with you and every other Ninja is that your mind is so open everything pours out the side. Google Gracie Challenge and if that doesn't do it for you nothing will.

Good luck.

EscortBiz · 09-13-2004, 12:01 PM

gotta love watching idiots talk about shit they know nothing about, its like the bodybuilding threads and threads about picking up chics.

Get a clue fucktards, spend some money, see whats real, do research and then open your fuckin mouths.

dig420 · 09-13-2004, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EscortBiz
gotta love watching idiots talk about shit they know nothing about, its like the bodybuilding threads and threads about picking up chics.

Get a clue fucktards, spend some money, see whats real, do research and then open your fuckin mouths.

The research has been done. It's called NHB, UFC and Pride.

but I'm sure it wouldn't work as well on 'the street'

Anthony_A · 09-13-2004, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EscortBiz
gotta love watching idiots talk about shit they know nothing about, its like the bodybuilding threads and threads about picking up chics.

Get a clue fucktards, spend some money, see whats real, do research and then open your fuckin mouths.

Thank you Ninja Grandmaster.

I will!

eroswebmaster · 09-13-2004, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dig420
The problem with you and every other Ninja is that your mind is so open everything pours out the side. Google Gracie Challenge and if that doesn't do it for you nothing will.

Good luck.

I am very well versed in the Gracies..I'm 38 and have known about them since I was in High School.

My best friend from high school is a brown belt in JuiJitsu and we talked about Gracies all the time...when I moved to LA in '87 even tried to join their school in Torrance but it was way too expensive back then..they weren't as widely dispersed as they are now...you're preaching to the choir...but you've got such a hardon on for proving me wrong you can't seem to realize that.

But I'm not interested in taking their classes right now...Reylson Gracie has a school here and I have spoken with them on the phone it is something I still plan on doing...but I'm going to take this class first.

Now do you want to hear my choices for lunch today so we can debate that?

cayne · 09-13-2004, 12:05 PM

Just want to know why the names are always so difficult.

I was doing 4 years Karate and 3 years Judo...it was a good time.

Dirty D · 09-13-2004, 12:13 PM

The Gracie Family Rocks. Plain and Simple.

Old school UFC proved this.
Royce stopped participating when the UFC incorporated time limits. He said, "There are no time limits in a real fight!"

He was able to beat opponents that were three times his size, given enough time

Raven · 09-13-2004, 12:17 PM

Asking out of curiousity...

Do any of you guys visit:

http://www.mma.tv

TheSenator · 09-13-2004, 12:21 PM

BJJ is all you need.

All the other stuff is just fluff and good selling points.

You can practice BJJ live without getting hurt.

TheSenator · 09-13-2004, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dustman
The Gracie Family Rocks. Plain and Simple.

Old school UFC proved this.
Royce stopped participating when the UFC incorporated time limits. He said, "There are no time limits in a real fight!"

He was able to beat opponents that were three times his size, given enough time

Good Fucking Point!!!

jade_dragon · 09-13-2004, 12:36 PM

Ok guys flame on this if you want but:

Most true eastern schools of martial arts are strictly against exhibitions of power. You can go on all day about how they are afraid to get in the ring and mix it up and they are hiding. But look at some of your own philosophies... do you show everything you have off, then why should they? Do you think it is a good idea to put on tape your fighting system so that others can learn how to defeat it? The reason TKD and Karate are so stagnant and their fighters easy to defeat is that you have been watching their techniques your whole life. You know what their kicks look like, their punches, their rolls, their moves, VERY little of it is unknown to you in its essence and so you can fight against it. Go back when the system was secret and new and it was very differant Karate = win on the streets.

Street and Octagon are WAY differant. In the octogon you are both wearing simular clothing, you have a non porous fighting surface and no weaponry, you are also in a climate controled area. What would Hoyce Gracie do if someone threw a garbage can at him and ran in after it to tackle him? How is his roll out effected by hitting a hard non mat surface? BJJ is not any more an ultimate fighting system for everyone than Jun Fan Jeet Kun Do, just because the originator was hardly defeated does not mean it will hand down to you. I know Capoeira Maestros who have hardly been defeated but I think the system relies way to much on being in perfect physical condition, their holes are filled with BJJ but so what. What happens in JuiJitsu when you fall wrong and break your arm.....oh oh no more arm bars or chokes now are there? What do you have to fall back on? At least if the Karate guy breaks and arm he can still kick.

Basing the validity of any system on exhibitions is foolhardy. Sure it shows you some basics but I would not study under any "master" who has multiple high ranks in multiple forms or fighting that is not over 40. Plain and simple how did a 30 year old get enough time to multi master a single let alone MULTIPLE forms. Looking over the info of this guy he had to have started training at 10 to get 20 years of experience. But split all his training up and you get basically about 4-5 years training in each and overlapping is terrible. Karate and the other forms are very differant. BJJ says basically that karate principal does not work throw it out, Karate says Mui Tai is good but is not balanced, Mui Tai says that all others lack the use of all 5 points of the body, Krav Mega (which seems to be his newest mastership) says throw it ALL away it is not direct enough. To me this man is a jack off all trades, a knowledge of many but a master of none..... oh yeah he IS a master, of all of them it seems WOW.

And i know it is rare on the boards but some of us actually care about people. I for one do not know who you are but I would hate for you to spend money with someone who is going to teach you things that might get you hurt. This is another thing in eastern martial arts.... brotherhood of warriors.

Anthony_A · 09-13-2004, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Raven
Asking out of curiousity...

Do any of you guys visit:

http://www.mma.tv

Of course.

I'm a blue namer.

David! · 09-13-2004, 03:34 PM

WOW, some people need to lighten up here

eroswebmaster is just happy to start a new program which teaches self defense and is aimed at putting him back in shape and all of you jump on his case about all this martial art shit and what's best

Fact is, 99% of people do not have a clue as to how to defend themselves. So, WHATEVER form of fighting that you know will instantly put you at the head of the pack.

I practise Krav Maga, I'm very happy with it as I lost weight and can kick just about anybody's ass and I can fuck like I was 20 again

.

I am not looking to rip anybody's throat or eyes out and I am not looking to go into a pissing match with my buddy who practises capoera. What I like about Krav Maga is that there is no rules and that they teach you how to handle yourselves in just about any situations. On a side note, the dude who teaches me Krav Maga also practises Kempo and Tae Kwon Do, so it makes for quite interesting training sessions

TheDoc · 09-13-2004, 03:37 PM

What I don't get is why everyone is so against Eros training in whatever fighting style he wants. It's for exercise, and to learn a little about defending himself. He isn't going out and looking for fights, not going into battle of war or an octagon. It's all for fun.

If I wanted to fight other people I would take BJJ. If I wanted a good work out and to learn a few things along the way, I wouldn't take BJJ, I would chose from the other 200 better work out forms.

BJJ isn't easy on the body, even more so for people really out of shape. If you have problems with bones, muscles, over weight, etc. BJJ will only cause more problems.

Go with whatever makes you feel good, you don't have to train to kill someone. After all, any fighting style can be beat with the simple pull of a trigger.

OzMan · 09-13-2004, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheDoc
What I don't get is why everyone is so against Eros training in whatever fighting style he wants. It's for exercise, and to learn a little about defending himself. He isn't going out and looking for fights, not going into battle of war or an octagon. It's all for fun.

If I wanted to fight other people I would take BJJ. If I wanted a good work out and to learn a few things along the way, I wouldn't take BJJ, I would chose from the other 200 better work out forms.

BJJ isn't easy on the body, even more so for people really out of shape. If you have problems with bones, muscles, over weight, etc. BJJ will only cause more problems.

Go with whatever makes you feel good, you don't have to train to kill someone. After all, any fighting style can be beat with the simple pull of a trigger.

Well said.

Funny how most discussions on religeon, politics or martial arts almost always degenerate into dick waving "mine is better than yours" crap

eroswebmaster · 09-13-2004, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PussyMan
WOW, some people need to lighten up here

eroswebmaster is just happy to start a new program which teaches self defense and is aimed at putting him back in shape and all of you jump on his case about all this martial art shit and what's best

LOL no kidding...I don't get it either..and just because I don't follow the prescribed methods of a few others here I get bashed...some interesting thought processes going on here.

eroswebmaster · 09-13-2004, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheDoc
What I don't get is why everyone is so against Eros training in whatever fighting style he wants. It's for exercise, and to learn a little about defending himself. He isn't going out and looking for fights, not going into battle of war or an octagon. It's all for fun.

If I wanted to fight other people I would take BJJ. If I wanted a good work out and to learn a few things along the way, I wouldn't take BJJ, I would chose from the other 200 better work out forms.

BJJ isn't easy on the body, even more so for people really out of shape. If you have problems with bones, muscles, over weight, etc. BJJ will only cause more problems.

Go with whatever makes you feel good, you don't have to train to kill someone. After all, any fighting style can be beat with the simple pull of a trigger.

Thanks man...you've seen my body and know exactly how out of shape it is...LOL

I am doing this as a way to get back into some sort of physical conditioning as well as learn something interesting.

I can guarantee you if I joined up something like YMCA which is clear across town I would probably talk myself out of going to it at some point..so I figured something like this would keep me interested.

09-13-2004, 10:20 AM	#1
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	F.I.G.H.T. - Haganah: I start classes tonight. Escort Biz posted about this on another thread last week and found out they had a school here...so I'm starting classes tonight. http://www.fight2survive.com Been almost 12 years since I was involved with any kind of martial arts and this really piqued my interest. Talked to the instructor over the phone and did some research and this sounds like some intense shit. You learn to use 1 of 3 things for every situation....either restrain, incapacitate, or terminate. __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

09-13-2004, 10:23 AM	#2
Anthony_A Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,219	Great. When they teach you to poke out eyes and rip out throats, ask them how many times they have actually done it in a real combat or close to reality situation. __________________ PAYBUYNET.COM Need Processing? Email me tony at paybuynet dot com ICQ 21239908

09-13-2004, 10:36 AM	#4
SykkBoy Jesus loves bacon Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sin City, Motherfucker Posts: 19,969	note to self: no more sticking eroswebmaster with the tab at dinner.... __________________ Support my new movie “The Second Coming”

09-13-2004, 11:05 AM	#11
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	Of course I'm not training under the founder...but when I find the extra time I will definitely make my way down to one of his seminars in Florida...but for now I'll settle for the cheaper version of learning in Vegas...LOL __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

09-13-2004, 11:28 AM	#16
Anthony_A Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,219	The founder supposedly trained BJJ and is Blue Belt, for lack of a good explanation, the equivelent of a black belt in any other martial art. Yet, I can't find his name any where listed as a Blue Belt. I wonder why? __________________ PAYBUYNET.COM Need Processing? Email me tony at paybuynet dot com ICQ 21239908

09-13-2004, 11:09 AM	#12
Manowar jellyfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 71,528	have fun man

09-13-2004, 11:23 AM	#14
dig420 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,240	Anthony knows the facts, he trains in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, a REAL martial art. Haganah is just like JKD and shit, they throw anything together and give it a name and some big guy with a lot of tats starts making money 'teaching' it. If it worked there would be a shitload of haganah fighters in the ring, but there's not. They all use BJJ and MT. That being said, I know from personal experience that a Bruce Lee fan will always be a Bruce Lee fan and there will always be people who believe in the Touch of Death, so have fun in the McDojo and never, never ask your instructor why he isn't fighting in Pride.

09-13-2004, 11:34 AM	#22
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	Let me ask you guys something...why the fuck are you so interested in my choice? LOL Do you wanna know where I shop too so you can debate that? How about the kind of car I want to buy, books I want to read...jesus fucking christ get a fucking life...LOL Nowhere on this thread have I stated one is better than the other...just posted what I planned on doing and have had to defend that now for a couple of hours. __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

09-13-2004, 11:37 AM	#24
squeezeboobs Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Boston MA Posts: 887	Another defense medium is Combat Conditioning? by Matt Furey. http://www.mattfurey.com __________________ (oYo) (oYo) (oYo) (oYo) (oYo) (oYo) (oYo) ICQ 149295193

09-13-2004, 11:40 AM	#28
dig420 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,240	and that's all I have to say, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink. Enjoy becoming a Ninja!!

09-13-2004, 11:44 AM	#30
Anthony_A Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,219	Haganah does neither. Haganah, an Israeli system developed by Israeli Special Forces veteran and world-class martial artist, Mike Lee Kanarek, is practical, can be learned by just about anyone in any condition in just a few months, and can be completely absorbed quickly. ******** Where does that say Krav Maga anywhere on it? What does Mike lee Kanarek, Jim Wagner, Jerry Peterson, and Sammy Franco all have in common? All are founders of this new and undefeatable martial art, that can take out ppl better trained, better shape, better everything than little ole out of shape you, that you can learn. Good luck to you, I've wasted enough time in this thread. __________________ PAYBUYNET.COM Need Processing? Email me tony at paybuynet dot com ICQ 21239908

09-13-2004, 11:58 AM	#33
jade_dragon Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Location: NEW ORLEANS/Baton Rouge BABY! Posts: 1,737	No military force really trains hard in hand to hand, they learn only very basic hand to hand, simple and to the point movements to be used against other gun carrying people who have also learned very simple and straight forward hang to hand. FBI and CIA train a little more in it than basic military units but I would like you to pull up some pictures of FBI and CIA agenst and look at their build as well as their dresscode and movements. Do they really look like they are about to go toe to toe with you or are they going to use a service side arm or close assault weapon to kill you and roll with plenty of backup? Police and military do not put a huge emphasis on hand to hand combat, this has been proven time and time again. All I can say is I hope you do not learn anything that will get you hurt on the streets. Unlike most of these systems, asian martial arts teach you about spirituality and part of it is all about how to use your brain to avoid fights, I find that this is lost in these "fight like the military boys" systems. Here is a way to tell if you are learning crap. Instructor has not trained in the origins of the system. Trainer says things like If they do this Then you do this or this or this or this. If there are scenarios for everything this is a paper system. True systems teach instantaneous and flexible reaction to opponents, if you are not flowing with the opponent you are thinking and processing speeds are slower then reactionary speeds. If you do not leave the class the first day feeling like you have been handed a weapon that can easily be used to help your odds in a fight then the system is "Slow". Any grand master of any martial art is going to be a better fighter than the average person, but how many years of intense training did they have to put in to get that fighting effective. How many years are you going to put in before you are even 25% as effective? If the instructor is under 30 it is a big flare unless he/she went striaght from highschool into training. No one who went to college and had a job while training has seriously had enough experience and intense mental focus on the system to be handing it down to others. __________________ even ADULTS need TOYS icq: 3 6 3 2 6 6 6 7 \| aim: conglomorateman open for business, affiliates and friendships

09-13-2004, 12:01 PM	#35
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	gotta love watching idiots talk about shit they know nothing about, its like the bodybuilding threads and threads about picking up chics. Get a clue fucktards, spend some money, see whats real, do research and then open your fuckin mouths. __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

09-13-2004, 12:05 PM	#39
cayne My time is coming... Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe --- eMail: service(at)badasscompany.com --- ICQ: 60288510 Posts: 7,476	Just want to know why the names are always so difficult. I was doing 4 years Karate and 3 years Judo...it was a good time. __________________ If lesbian anal is wrong, I don't want to be right.

09-13-2004, 12:13 PM	#40
Dirty D Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Paying Webmasters Millions Since 1999 Posts: 4,044	The Gracie Family Rocks. Plain and Simple. Old school UFC proved this. Royce stopped participating when the UFC incorporated time limits. He said, "There are no time limits in a real fight!" He was able to beat opponents that were three times his size, given enough time __________________ Dirty D - ICQ #1326843 - $1 Million Dollars of Bonus Money - 8,000+ FHG! Glory Hole Girlz - Crack Whore Confessions - Tampa Bukkake - Slut Wife Training - Fuck a Fan Electricity Play - Porn Video Drive - Theater Sluts - Skunk Riley - Ukraine Amateurs - Strapon Sessions

09-13-2004, 12:17 PM	#41
Raven Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,874	Asking out of curiousity... Do any of you guys visit: http://www.mma.tv __________________ Raven ~RETIRED~

09-13-2004, 12:21 PM	#42
TheSenator Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 13,336	BJJ is all you need. All the other stuff is just fluff and good selling points. You can practice BJJ live without getting hurt. __________________ ISeekGirls.com since 2005

09-13-2004, 12:36 PM	#44
jade_dragon Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Location: NEW ORLEANS/Baton Rouge BABY! Posts: 1,737	Ok guys flame on this if you want but: Most true eastern schools of martial arts are strictly against exhibitions of power. You can go on all day about how they are afraid to get in the ring and mix it up and they are hiding. But look at some of your own philosophies... do you show everything you have off, then why should they? Do you think it is a good idea to put on tape your fighting system so that others can learn how to defeat it? The reason TKD and Karate are so stagnant and their fighters easy to defeat is that you have been watching their techniques your whole life. You know what their kicks look like, their punches, their rolls, their moves, VERY little of it is unknown to you in its essence and so you can fight against it. Go back when the system was secret and new and it was very differant Karate = win on the streets. Street and Octagon are WAY differant. In the octogon you are both wearing simular clothing, you have a non porous fighting surface and no weaponry, you are also in a climate controled area. What would Hoyce Gracie do if someone threw a garbage can at him and ran in after it to tackle him? How is his roll out effected by hitting a hard non mat surface? BJJ is not any more an ultimate fighting system for everyone than Jun Fan Jeet Kun Do, just because the originator was hardly defeated does not mean it will hand down to you. I know Capoeira Maestros who have hardly been defeated but I think the system relies way to much on being in perfect physical condition, their holes are filled with BJJ but so what. What happens in JuiJitsu when you fall wrong and break your arm.....oh oh no more arm bars or chokes now are there? What do you have to fall back on? At least if the Karate guy breaks and arm he can still kick. Basing the validity of any system on exhibitions is foolhardy. Sure it shows you some basics but I would not study under any "master" who has multiple high ranks in multiple forms or fighting that is not over 40. Plain and simple how did a 30 year old get enough time to multi master a single let alone MULTIPLE forms. Looking over the info of this guy he had to have started training at 10 to get 20 years of experience. But split all his training up and you get basically about 4-5 years training in each and overlapping is terrible. Karate and the other forms are very differant. BJJ says basically that karate principal does not work throw it out, Karate says Mui Tai is good but is not balanced, Mui Tai says that all others lack the use of all 5 points of the body, Krav Mega (which seems to be his newest mastership) says throw it ALL away it is not direct enough. To me this man is a jack off all trades, a knowledge of many but a master of none..... oh yeah he IS a master, of all of them it seems WOW. And i know it is rare on the boards but some of us actually care about people. I for one do not know who you are but I would hate for you to spend money with someone who is going to teach you things that might get you hurt. This is another thing in eastern martial arts.... brotherhood of warriors. __________________ even ADULTS need TOYS icq: 3 6 3 2 6 6 6 7 \| aim: conglomorateman open for business, affiliates and friendships

09-13-2004, 03:34 PM	#46
David! By the wrath of Agamemnon Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Miami Posts: 6,501	WOW, some people need to lighten up here eroswebmaster is just happy to start a new program which teaches self defense and is aimed at putting him back in shape and all of you jump on his case about all this martial art shit and what's best Fact is, 99% of people do not have a clue as to how to defend themselves. So, WHATEVER form of fighting that you know will instantly put you at the head of the pack. I practise Krav Maga, I'm very happy with it as I lost weight and can kick just about anybody's ass and I can fuck like I was 20 again . I am not looking to rip anybody's throat or eyes out and I am not looking to go into a pissing match with my buddy who practises capoera. What I like about Krav Maga is that there is no rules and that they teach you how to handle yourselves in just about any situations. On a side note, the dude who teaches me Krav Maga also practises Kempo and Tae Kwon Do, so it makes for quite interesting training sessions __________________ .

09-13-2004, 03:37 PM	#47
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	What I don't get is why everyone is so against Eros training in whatever fighting style he wants. It's for exercise, and to learn a little about defending himself. He isn't going out and looking for fights, not going into battle of war or an octagon. It's all for fun. If I wanted to fight other people I would take BJJ. If I wanted a good work out and to learn a few things along the way, I wouldn't take BJJ, I would chose from the other 200 better work out forms. BJJ isn't easy on the body, even more so for people really out of shape. If you have problems with bones, muscles, over weight, etc. BJJ will only cause more problems. Go with whatever makes you feel good, you don't have to train to kill someone. After all, any fighting style can be beat with the simple pull of a trigger. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation Last edited by TheDoc; 09-13-2004 at 03:39 PM..