Primal

Did they beat the shit out of Him like they showed on the movie?

I didnt readed the Bible or have the intention to, but is anyone here know the story that can anwser my question?

The movie focus alot on the punishement, like if it was really true, but since that Hollywood as the nasty habit on overreact to things, Im really curious about it.

Im not going to see it again I cant understand why 2.4MIll copies were sold on the first 24 hours, maybe cristins, but come on.....

15 minutes of Him taking that beat?

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zdwebber

they beat the shit out of who?

strats

they whipped him, then nailed iron ties through his hands and feet on a cross then raised it and left him there.

BlackCrayon

jesus fucking christ

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pornguy

The sad thing about it is that the evidence shows both things.

It really depends in who you ask. A historian, or someone with the religious twist.

If you read about the way some of the criminals were punished then it is easy to believe they did beat him that way, as a standard method.

But at the same time some of the Romans were not too sure about him, and might have been scared to do that.

If you want a good read, pick up The Hiram Key.

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Funbrunette

I can't get myself to watch this movie because of it being so graphic. Don't get me wrong I love blood, gore, guts and more blood, but in movies....Not taken from perhaps actual events (I'm not catholic, but still refuse to watch this)

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Linguist

You don't have to be religious to read the bible..


... wait nvm, its GFY

Primal

If thats so tak emy word man.
Do you dare to watch it.
I sure wont be watching again.

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Primal

That part I know, what I dont know is if its true that the whipe had those nasty fucking nails or whatever it was and ripped flesh out of him man.

That is fucking unhuman.

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boobmaster

Noone knows what the actual crucifixion was like but it WAS a bloody mess. Comparing the bible account with accounts of how the Romans usually treated persons they were crucifying, it is clear that he was severely abused. (e.g., the crown of thorns was not something that was generally part of a normal crucifixion).

Gibson's account is far more accurate than any previous account of the death of Christ. This is probably the most horrible way to die. He was a man of peace, completely innocent of the charges against him. He didn't have to go through it. He did it because he loved you and you continue to spit in his face and mock him.

boobmaster

People have a dificult time watching this movie because deep down in their souls they know it should have been THEM on that cross. He died for THEM.

xclusive

I think it was probably worse than in the movie as hard as that is to believe because they were making an example of him...

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Primal

Yeah I saw it on the movie, they did the same for comum criminals.

Yes this is what I wanted to know.

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boobmaster

The scourging. Here's what he actually went through. It's not pretty.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/rr2002/r&r0201a.htm

Primal

I think thats not a right way of thinking but every one has the right to think the way they want, so comments on this.

Lets face something here.
The movie, the bible, what ever ppl say we ALL are assuming its true, but we dont know.

No one knows.
But assuming that this story is for real, and that He did went through all that for us, thats some memorable thing to think man.

But this also raizes a thought in my mind.
We as human beings are not that diferent from back then <- I think this is the way to say it

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boobmaster

There is plenty of non-biblical evidence for the existence and crucifixion of Christ. The issue is whether you believe he was a man of peace killed for being a pest to the Jews or the Son of God, come to save mankind from sin.

Primal

Yes if it is true that He existed, I do belive about the story.
What I wanted to know if that the story that Mel Gibson filmed was pretty closed to reality (bible, stories) or if it was an overreact like Holywood likes so much.
I ldid iked the movie, except the 15 minute turture, wich I think it was way to much.

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Dead13

That is what I was thinking.

I do not believe in Christ and all that religious crap but I wanted to see the movie, basically just because I wanted to see it. So I got the DVD cause I didnt want to go see it in the theatre with a buch of religious nuts.

I have read and studied enough history to know, yes that was common tourcher back then, but to see it unleased was very powerful. But the point that grabbed me the most was when during the movie I turned to my wife and realize in over 2,000 years of evolution we have not changed one bit.

We need to.

boobmaster

Gibson consulted the best bible scholars and classical historians for this project. This is the most accurate dipiction of the crucifixion ever made.

They couldn't show this back in the 50s and 60s when all the Jesus movies were being made because it would have been censored. Crucifixion is a slaughterfuck. You wouldn't want to experience it, believe me.

boobmaster

That's a contradiction in terms.

Primal

Exactly what I said to my friends.

Word on that man.

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Primal

Like I said before.

IF this story is true, then He really wouldnt be human.
No human couldnt got that beat the way He did.

I think if some one take flesh out of me like they did to Him near the ribs and the fron chest I pass out.

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boobmaster

He was God in human form

tony286

If they beat him the way they did in the movie . He would of been dead three times before he got to the mountain. Who knows what happened the bible was written by man,politics and the church were the editors. Thats why there were like 20 something gospels but only 4 made it. If it was just the word of God , there wouldnt of been a need for a editor.

tony286

The gospel according to Thomas was probably the closest to the actual word of Christ but the church banned it because it said things like you dont need a church to worship and dont patition the lord with prayer.

sickkittens

It's way more powerful in the theaters than in the DVD.

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tony286

porn is wrong but roman soldiers beating the shit out of Jesus is fine to watch. To me thats true pornography. lol

boobmaster

.... keep comforting yourself to the grave.

Primal

Im glad I didnt saw it in the theater.

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block

The romans were pretty brutal at that time so they probably wanted to make an example out of him...

tony286

I am confused lol

Donny

According to the Bible, he was beaten severely, just like the movie depicts.

Primal

He has a point in there dude.

Just an exemple showe din the movie.
The jews (whatever is spelled) did what they wanted before the ppl and in the face of the governor.

Who grants you they didnt wrote the Bible the way they wanted, to make the future generations beliving what they wanted?

Im not making up this is is pretty clear on the movie.

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tony286

Actually it talks very little about it , Mel Gibson based his movie on this book .
http://www.emmerich1.com/DOLOROUS_PA...SUS_CHRIST.htm

nofx

at all of the catholic adult webmasters or any adult webmaster who saw this movie.

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Rob

I missed it. What happened at the end? Did he manage to escape?

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Primal

What exemple?
that was a punish to prevent of Him of geting cruxified (whever is spelled).
Even with the statment of the governor saying "punish Him, but dont kill him" and what the fucking guards tried was exactly that. KILL HIM.
Not for an exemple but for fucking pleasure.

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boobmaster

Gnosticism = heresy

tony286

Truth=heresy lol

boobmaster

Laughing at someone for seeing a movie. Hmmm! What is so funny about seeing a movie?

Primal

Relax guys :P

I just wanted to know if the movie matched the bible/stories or whatever.

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nofx

yup, a movie made to suck more $ out of religious nuts. how much tithe do you pay?

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boobmaster

The problem is that it's all true and you are going to burn in hell for all eternity.

nofx

sorry I dont believe in heaven or hell, they fall hand in hand.

"i'm livin' in the past
i'm goin' no where fast
but jesus has a place for me
a life of sin and infamy"

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Tom_PMs

It's all about interpretation.
Religion doesnt exist in a building, or a book. It exists or doesnt exist inside you.
Most of the symbolism goes much further back than people who wrote and/or compiled the stories of the christian bible. Myths much older than 2000 years. Truisms and "you fill in the blank" type of things.
Every so often someone pops up that many feel embodies the virtues they seek within themselves, and are praised or even worshipped.

This stuff isn't mystery, it's a much simpler thing which is how it can ring true and deep in both the simplest and greatest of people.

Now, back to the beer bongs. Who's hit is it anyway?

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You've read it, you can't unread it.

masterE

Hey damnit, next time warn us before you post shit like this


I hate cleaning tea off my monitor

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dready

William Alberts
The Passion of the Christ-Makers

The current stirring of religiosity is not about ?the passion of the Christ,? but about the passion of the Christ-makers?those who have recreated Jesus in the image of their own need for certainty, security, rightness, power over others, and domination. It is especially about correct theological belief and not about just, ethical behavior; about having the right belief, not doing the right thing; about a personal, other-worldly destination, not about an interpersonal journey with others?unless they are like- minded; about believing in Jesus, not doing what he believed in.

To the Christ-makers, Jesus died for the sins of the world, and whoever believes in his sacrificial act of atonement, as the only Son of God, will not perish but inherit eternal life. Thus, may an otherwise hell-bent humanity escape the eternal damnation of an otherwise loving God.

The centrality to Christianity of belief, and of such a belief in Jesus, is the enthusiastically received message of Mel Gibson?s The Passion of the Christ. From the film?s biblical introduction?(?He was wounded for our transgressions,? Isaiah 53:5a) through the almost movie-long violent scourging (that would have killed Jesus many times over), to the piercing of his side with a spear after he was already dead?comes the resounding message of vicarious suffering for everyone?s inherently sinful human condition and that accepting him as one?s personal savior is the key to everlasting life.

What Jesus actually believed in?and died for?is effectively, if not intentionally, obscured by the passion of the Christ-makers. He did not die for a theological abstraction, i.e., for ?the sins of the world,? but because of the sins being committed against his Jewish world. He died to liberate the Jewish people from the Roman Empire, which had violated their national sovereignty, occupied their country, and crucified thousands of Jewish ?insurgents? and bystanders?for whom belief in a Messiah was grounded in the political realities of Jewish nationalism, freedom, justice, and peace.

The anti-Semitism of The Passion of the Christ is seen in its distortion of historical reality; in its portrayal of brutal Roman administrator Pontius Pilate as agonizingly sympathetic to a would-be liberator of Jews from Roman domination; in Pilate washing his hands of responsibility for Jesus?s death, even though he had the power of life and death over Jesus (John 19:10).

The ahistorical violence the film does to Jewish reality is also seen in a ?whole battalion?-backed, yet uneasy, Pilate giving in to the ?will? of subjugated, powerless priests, elders of the people, and other Jews who repeatedly cried out, ?Crucify him? (Mark 15:12-16). Portraying the Roman empire in such a favorable light, in New Testament books written 50 to 100 years after the fact, may have advanced the evangelizing of Romans by the early followers of Jesus; but it cast a horrible curse on the Jewish people by putting into the mouths of their oppressed descendents, ?His (Jesus?s) blood be on us and on our children? (Matthew 27:25).

The argument that The Passion of the Christ is true to the gospels? accounts of Jesus?s crucifixion does not make it any less anti-Semitic. The New Testament has been used not only to justify anti-Semitism, but also the enslavement of black people (Ephesians 6:5ff), patriarchy?s subjugation of women (Ephesians 5:22ff), physical and spiritual violence against gay and lesbian persons (Romans 1:26, 27), and world domination in Jesus?s name. Enter President Bush.

When asked during the 2000 presidential campaign, ?What political philosopher or thinker do you most identify with and why?? George W. Bush replied, ?Christ, because he changed my heart.? When asked later how Jesus changed his heart, Bush responded, ?When you accept Christ as a savior, it changes your heart, it changes your life? (?60 Minutes II,? April 14, 2004).

President Bush?s belief-centered faith in Christ apparently provides him with the spiritual blinders needed to remain oblivious to the behavior of the U.S. and his own administration?s behavior.

To violate another country?s national sovereignty and impose ?freedom? on its people and call it an historic spreading of ?democracy? in the Middle East, is to turn reality inside out. Here behavior defies belief. Never mind reality?the overwhelming evidence against ?mission accomplished?; the warning of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, ?a major Arab ally,? who ?said yesterday that hatred of Americans in the Arab world is stronger than ever because of the war in Iraq? (Boston Globe, April 21, 2004). That hatred intensified with revelations of the torture, desecration, and murder of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. military personnel, though President Bush has tried to dissociate his Administration from the culture of abuse its pre-meditated war policy and his ?bring ?em on? mentality have fostered. But the far greater abuse is the U.S. invading and occupying Iraq in the first place.

President Bush is ?staying the course?: not guided by reality, but by his ?strong belief that freedom is not this country?s gift to the world but the Almighty?s gift to every man and woman in the world? (news conference, April 13, 2004). In the violent wake of ?staying the course? have come pre-emptive war-supporting, evangelizing carpetbaggers, carrying Bibles and water, calling Islam an ?evil? religion, (St. Petersburg Times, April 20, 2003), and intent on converting Muslims to Christ.

The interpretation of history by the passion of the Christ-makers does violence to the reality of oppressed people?Jewish and Iraqi?and obscures what Jesus was really about. He was not about dying for the sins of the world so that believers could inherit eternal life, but about setting at liberty the Jews, who were oppressed in his world (Luke 4:18). In fact, he emphasized an often overlooked way to eternal life: by behavior, not by belief. When a lawyer tested him by asking, ?Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?? Jesus confirmed that the two greatest commandments were the way: love of God and one?s neighbor as oneself (Luke 10:25-28). When tested further to define who one?s neighbor was, Jesus said any person stripped of life and in need of a Good Samaritan (Luke 10:29-37).

Jesus used the very institution of religion, the sabbath, to emphasize the sacred worth of every human being: ?The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath? (Mark 2:27). The democratic spirit of these words should be the foundation of Christian organizations and might also help guide the mission statements of political, economic, and social institutions as well.

In teaching love of one?s neighbor as oneself and in intervening on behalf of his oppressed Jewish neighbors, Jesus set an example for the behavior of those who would follow his pathway to eternal life. It is here that the dynamic of belief may come into play.

It is much easier to worship what Jesus did than to do what he worshipped. It is safer to believe that Jesus died for the sins of the world than to join in seeking to rid the world of political, corporate, and military sins that deny neighbors? their birthright of freedom and fulfillment.

Institutionalized religion often immortalizes its saints in order to immobilize them. A way to neutralize the threat posed by the example of prophets and patriots is to turn their liberation movement into a monument and worship it. Vicarious identification with their struggles may be substituted for involvement in similar ethical struggles today. The stature is found in the statue. The right is remembered in the rite. The power is in the prayer. The radical footstep is encased in a freedom trail. The ethic is observed as a memory and avoided as a model.

Belief in Christ as one?s personal savior can also invite a narcissism that encourages self-centeredness rather than identification with one?s neighbors. Such narcissism may even reinforce obliviousness to the neglect or unjust treatment of neighbors by the government, for example, in our name. The aim of belief is certainly to affirm, comfort, and empower?but not at the expense of one?s neighbor.

Religion is about behavior not belief?just as the truth is reflected in what one does. Religion is about setting people free, not imposing sectarian or political beliefs on them. It?s about empowering people, not gaining power over them. It?s about people?s inalienable right to believe as they choose and be who they are. It?s about honoring people in calling them by their own name, in experiencing their reality not interpreting it. It?s about loving one?s neighbor as oneself?here and on any Jericho road.

Rev. William E. Alberts is hospital chaplain at Boston Medical Center, Newton, MA. He is both a Unitarian Universalist and a United Methodist minister. He has written essays and articles on racism, war, politics, and religion.

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Halo18

Unless my memory is fucked, his crime was claiming to be the son of god. I thought he was pretty open about making that claim...
And...well, if you really wanna get technical - since according to you, jesus is god in human form, he actually flooded the earth and killed countless people according to the bible. How that gets him dubbed 'innocent' and 'a man of peace' is beyond me.

boobmaster

It doesn't matter whether you believe in hell or not. That's where you're gonna be.