Minte

We certainly don't need to look back 400 years to see how the "higher civilizations" values life.

tha_timinator

KC, I totally agree with you that it's horrible what he has done. I also know he doesn't show regret of any kind so any kind of cure won't be possible for him. But what I was trying to say is that putting him in jail his whole life and let him work for what he costs the country and perhaps he will even earn some more, which is good for the country ofcourse, is much worse for him so that's the way to go in my opinion.

And please don't think the dead sentence is cheaper than a life in jail... dead sentence costs a several times more in fact, only think of those two chocolate-mint icecreams for dessert ...

so in brief: if a life in jail is worse for Tim than dead sentence why execute him!?!?! You all want what's worst for him right!?!?

And another point worth to mention; due to his dead penalty Tim is almost made to somekind of 'hero' by all the media and stuff. eye-witnesses telling how he kept his pride, who intensely he looked all right in the eyes and how well he was prepared to die... the man almost died a honorable death!!
so i think he can be _very_ happy with how he has come to his ending! the _whole_ world talks about him and knows who he is, and when exactly he has died. everyone knows how cool he was while waiting for his death to come... the man is made to an hero and he will be even prouder than he already was now he's in heaven/hell/wherever!!

... tim.

[Labret]

If in doubt, ask your wife.

Was not aware I had a story.

Simple fact of the matter is, next time I am in Amsterdam, if I see you... your clogs are going up your ass.


[This message has been edited by [Labret] (edited 06-11-2001).]

tha_timinator

don't see why Much0S' clogs should go up his ass??


and to add to my latter post:
only look at us discussing him and his situation on this stupid board! my reasoning goes like this:
THAT SHITHOLE OF A TIMOTHY DOES NOT DESERVE ALL THIS ATTENTION AND TALK ABOUT HIM!!!!!!

so just give him a life in jail and he will the most miserable life anyone can think of!

Warphead

Ok, maybe the Death penalty is barbaric by some standards, but you can't look at one thing and judge an entire culture.

We have a cowboy culture and there are just too many people. We gotta thin the herd and guys like McVeigh are elected.

I was reading the other day that in Italy a woman can't legally be raped if she's wearing jeans, because they can't be ripped off. Also that grabbing a woman's ass isn't consider "sexual harassment". That doesn't sound like an "advanced civilization" to us. Using those examples it's safe to say we're more advanced when it comes to the rights of women than Italy.

But we can't really judge an entire culture because of a couple of examples.

The death penalty is popular here, it's what we want. Maybe it's not right, and like I said earlier - I think life in prison is a better punishment. But it's democracy in action.

[This message has been edited by Warphead (edited 06-11-2001).]

CDSmith

I dunno Tim (and muchos), you leave me unconvinced. Take the case of Charlie Manson.....that fucker looks to me like he's still enjoying life. Every time he's showcased on some show or documentary, he's always playing with your mind during the interview. I say that bastard should have been fried too, along with his harem from hell.

Bottom line, if you want this thread to die, quit fucking flapping off about how savage the US is. If it wasn't for the American (and Canadian) savages during WWI, WWII and that latest little bit of civility in Czechoslov-wackia, you'd all be wearing shvastikas and singin a higher note for your "insolence"!! Sieg Heil buddy.

Don't look down your fucking noses at the US for this. As someone else said earlier, if it was YOUR children that were blown to shreds, or your mom, your dad, or your WIFE, you'd be the first ones crying to hang the fucker by his balls. Don't kid yourself.
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misterwalrus

What a bunch of socialistic pussies! The death penalty is by far the only way to go with people like McVeigh. Why the fuck spend time, money and effort with someone who is locked away for all their life. Rehab those that can be rehabed but get rid of the rest.

------------------
FUCK ALL Y'ALL

DragonAss

This thread is too short... so I'll add my .02

Death penalty and guns - no comment.

McVeigh - guilty or not, deserving of death or not, the American justice system has been severely twisted by all of this. As someone mentioned before, what about the innocent folks who get put to death. That evidence which was withheld by the FBI rightly should have been part of the trial and submitted for the jury to weigh. Instead it was quickly reviewed by a judge.

This issue (how many innocent folks could be sentenced to death in the USA?) was constantly avoided by reflecting on the fact that McVeigh is still guilty and so justice works. As if to say justice always works.

For the administration, this case was more important as a means of reinstating Federal executions than it was about serving justice. The religous right is here and they brought their crosses with them.

smutcash

You know, I think they should have killed that bastard a long long time ago! They just wasted money on his trial and keeping him in jail all this time. I'm glad he's finally dead.
------------------- http://www.smutcash.com

UnseenWorld

At least we're sure he's guilty. I'm not so confident of all the other guys on Death Row. Was it Illinois where the Governor suspended executions because mostly on the basis of DNA evidence, about half the guys who were on Death Row were PROVEN innocent after their convictions.

Now, stop a moment and think: Does that mean that about half the people in prison in general may be innocent?

What the FUCK is wrong with our justice system? And why do we have so many people in prison?

------------------
Producer of truly original teen/young woman-oriented adult content at Wonders of the Unseen World

LAJ

Allright, my $.02 for anybody who gives a shit.

1st off, I want to clarify that I agree almost exactly with MuchOS on his posts.

I will also say that I am not at all religious and have never been a relative or friend of a victim of such a horrible crime, like the bombing.

That being said, it could be argued that "if it was your kid that got killed/raped/assaulted, etc... you would want to see the guy killed yadda, yadda, yadda..." Well sure, we all have fantasized about good old fashioned revenge, street justice, and the desire to fuck someone up to get even.

But laws are in place to protect the innocent, and the death penalty is not the answer. I have always been a strong supporter of the death penalty... until today.

Sure the shitbag is dead now, but what did it solve? No he won't commit another crime, and everyone can crap on about "closure" and "justice" being served. My fucking ass! There will never be closure because the dead can't be brought back. And this was vengeance pure and simple. Too many Americans "needed" McVeigh dead.

Well guess what! The fucker didn't act alone! And he didn't act with two or three others either. This was a well planned out attack folks. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but fuck an A, the mob killed Kennedy almost 40 years ago, and the bottom man was the only person who REALLY answered for it. Same situation here. A LOT of dirty hands in this one. McVeigh took the fall for countless people I'm sure. Maybe many weren't involved, but many sure knew about it. Then there was that "blunder" with the FBI last month... hmmm....

Killing McVeigh wasn't the answer. He died a martyr. All he probably had to do was plea bargain a life sentence by turning in some names... some of which were no doubt government officials. But he probably wasn't given this option. The stupid public wanted a quick fix -- and six years is very quick -- to try to put closure on this. McVeigh would have done a Jimmy Hoffa if he opened his mouth. This way he dies peacefully, and without fear of being hunted, and a hero to "his kind."

Additionally look at states with the death penalty... hmmm Texas is putting them away like nobody's business, and guess which state has one of the highest crime rates per capita??? Yup. The death penalty is NOT a deterrent for crime. Never has been, never will be. Look at Australia. Nobody has guns, there is no death penalty, and guess what... their crime rate per capita is miniscule compared to the USA.

Don't get me wrong. I fucking love the USA. I've been to enough foreign countries to appreciate that I live in the best damn place in the world, but there are major problems here... and a lot of them lie within the way people think.

The justice system exists the way it does to protect the innocent. Innocent people get killed all the time... on the streets, and in the death chambers. Tis better to let 10 guilty men free than to kill 1 innocent man. And no, I am not saying that McVeigh is innocent here. He was guilty as fuck.

And lastly... don't kid yourself about the death sentence being cheaper than a life sentence. That shit is laughable! Do you have any idea how much money it costs to put this shit through the courts, and all of the appeals, and the lawyers and court fees, etc. I don't either, but it is TONS more than housing the scumbag in a concrete cell for 50 years with no way out, and the other inmates to deal with.

Whew... I'm tired!

LAJ
YNOT Network http://www.ynotmasters.com

[This message has been edited by LAJ (edited 06-11-2001).]

[This message has been edited by LAJ (edited 06-11-2001).]

[This message has been edited by LAJ (edited 06-11-2001).]

DragonAss

Because prosecuters get rewarded for convictions. This gives them incentive to convict even if the party is innocent

Just look at RAMPART.

Much0S

Glad we have another one on our side LAJ

You mentioned a very good point: all you guys out there who think death penalty, having really high jail sentences and being allowed to walk around with guns actually reduces violence/criminality then tell me:
- Why is the US the only country where ppl are shot each 2 seconds?
- Why is the US one of the most criminal and unsafe countries in the world?
- Why is it that many of the most rich ppl in the US, like celebrities, let their children grow up in Europe?
- Why is it that in the US, there are a lot of innocent ppl?

The rules you guys have are mostly based on the time that you guys were building up the country. As I mentioned earlier they are for the 'wild' west. Ofcourse in those times you must have been crazy not to have a gun...

Time to change I think. You are changing things you shouldn't change (like the 1st amandment, aka freedom of speech), so why shouldn't you change the things you should?

[Labret]

Jesus, that is the most made up bunch of bullshit statistics I have ever heard.

Why is that millions of people try to immigrate, sneak, swim, border jump, into this evil land every year if its so bad?

Your people profit from animal abuse. Everyone knows your country leads the world in bestiality production. Get a fucking clue. I doubt you have ever even been to this country.

I am buying an extra set of clogs to go up your ass.



[This message has been edited by [Labret] (edited 06-12-2001).]

[Labret]

Damn double post.



[This message has been edited by [Labret] (edited 06-12-2001).]

Much0S

Ppl want to go to America because of the money that can be made there. I'm not saying it's a bad country, hell no, there are worse countries around. All I'm saying is that it's time to change your justice system because it's not working anymore.

joris

MuchOS, I admire your patience.

Those of you who think that the death penalty saves tax money, get your facts straight:
http://www.amnesty-usa.org/abolish/cost.html

(wouldn't hurt to browse through the amnesty site anyway if you'd like to base your opinion on facts)

Much0S

Thanks Joris!

You new around here? Don't have you in my icq yet, so hit me up (2227869)