czarina

guys:
it's him or Bush...
And do you really want Bush in office again? Think twice!

VOTE KERRY! Or find another job....

piker

Yea, it is just a coincidence that all of Kerry's command in Vietnam have absolutely not respect for his abilities. Don't worry about what the people that actually had to live with his ability to command have to say about him. Vote for him anyways.

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freeadultcontent

He went to Vietnam, be it a day, a month, a year, or more. Does not change the fact that he actually went to war.
Do we really care if bad shit "did" happen during the war? No not really, bad shit always happens during wars, specially very ugly ones.
Was he very envolved with the anti-war movement when he got home, yes and that is not a problem. He was there and he had every right to speak out against the war.
Did he deserve the metals he got? Apparently, they Navy said so, so it does not matter what any person says after the fact.

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Centurion

Irony of ironies is that you want "government out of your life" but I'll bet you back the Homeland Security Dept and it's officials big time that has done nothing but TAKE AWAY indvidual rights guaranteed in the Constitution!

Yes, I'd MUCH rather have the government involved in jobs, education, health care than locking up people denying them of their civil rights and not even giving them access to a lawyer!

Centurion

Go look and see who's BANKROLLING the anti-Kerry vets!

MANY of the same people who went after a TRUE BLUE war hero back in 2000..a REPUBLICAN named John McCain!

Not exactly a stellar record to prove honesty & integrity when it comes to telling the truth about this!

Mr.Fiction

The Swift Boat group are being paid millions by Republicans - they are being paid to lie to bash Kerry. They get money for lying about Kerry. The more lies, the more money.

Every single guy on the boat with Kerry except one is supporting him. The other guys were not on the boat with him - some of them weren't even in Vietnam at the same time as him.

Using your logic, I guess you are saying Gore should be president today - after all 500,000 more people supported Gore than Bush.

It's surprising to see you admitting Bush shouldn't be president.

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titmowse

correction. all the men that shared the boat with Kerry support him. the one who "didn't" was his former commander who has since recanted his derisive statements about Kerry's silver star.

that leaves one remaining swift boat crew member who happens to be deceased.

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Corona

You don't know what you are talking about.

Every single guy under his command supports him.

Go spew your bullshit somewhere else.

Where was George during this time? AWOL

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Peaches

Wow, Fletch, you sure spent a lot of time chasing down a rabbit that doesn't exist - please show me JUST ONCE where I said I was voting for Nader! Bonus points for showing me where I "keep insisting on the board" I'm voting for him!

And I am a Libertarian with some Republican overtones - good catch. Too bad you wanted to make stuff up in the process.

ronbotx

ronbotx

12clicks

dear halfwit, no one is "bankrolling" the vets telling the truth about kerry. Someone is buying time for them on TV so they can be heard.

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bringer

blah blah blah
who the fuck cares
lets all make more threads about kerry and comment in each others so we feel good about ourselves

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Tom_PMs

I'll play.

Dear quarterwit, everyone with at least half a wit knows this anti-kerry ad is pure horsehockey, including many of the normally staunch republican talking heads.

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You've read it, you can't unread it.

bringer

im not pro bush by anymeans, but i find it amusing how anything anti kerry is a socalled lie and anything anti bush is fact. grow a brain

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tony286

They did this before to John Mc Cain who already said they did the same thing to me and to Max Cleland they called him unpatriotic he only gave 3 limbs for his country.

12clicks

exactly. show them something shiny and they're mesmerized

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12clicks

not true. they guys in kerry's unit (which consisted of more than the 5 people on his boat) have never spoken out against mccain or cleland.

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tony286

No they are not guys on kerrys boat get your info right. It was the same group that did the ads against McCain in 2000. Know you facts.

Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona, a war hero himself, denounced the Swift Boat group's ad as "dishonest and dishonorable," and pointed out the similar tactic was used against him four years ago during his contentious primary race against Mr. Bush.

I deplore this kind of politics," McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded.

Tom_PMs

lol, weird how if you're anti-bush, people tend to lump you in with the democrats or liberals

If any person, man, woman, of whatever party, had bushes record, I'd be anti-them too.

They resort to dirty tactics, they drop low in my book. They're idiots, they drop lower..
I was against the anti-bush ad that compared him to hitler. I was glad the democratic candidate decried it and asked that it be pulled.

I'd have been happy if the repiblican candidate decried this ad and asked it be pulled as well. They're both clearly beyond reason.

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Tom_PMs

Not sure how close you've been following this story, but I didnt pull my comment out of thin air. Keep watching.. lots of normally strict republicans are calling this one horseshit..

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tony286

On Thursday, McCain called on the White House to condemn the practice.

The White House distanced itself from the anti-Kerry ad, but declined to condemn it. Gotta love them lol

12clicks

I know my facts. you don't know yours. any idea who's funding moveon.org?

Also, pretending mccain is presidential material and that only ads paid for by a pro bush group kept him from winning is silly at best.

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Tom_PMs

The difference is that the democratic candidate asked moveon to pull an ad that was below the belt. Republican candidate wont do that though, even when his own party asks him to.

It's not a party thing, it's a person thing..

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KRL

I really do think Kerry will be able to patch up a lot of our foreign relationships. He speaks fluent French and German. So that will go over well in his European diplomatic trips.

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12clicks

only in liberal la la land is telling a different side of the story backed by 20 people "below the belt"

oh wait, clinton lying underr oath was "below the belt" too.

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12clicks

what's the translation for "I'm going to let you go back to making billions in the oil for food deal"

some relationships need to be shed, not patched,

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Mr.Fiction

The Republican party calling Vietnam veterans baby killers.

Now we've seen it all.

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ronbotx

Yes , he's got a plan..... but its secret so he can't tell us. Here are our new allies.....

Corona

Some of those people also got medals for the very same thing Kerry did. Why didn't they give them back at the time and say they didn't deserve them then?

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uno

Holy shit, people are offended by the schools educatiing the parents to a decision they didn't know they had?

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Centurion

Oh yee of NO WITS, when I say "Bankrolling" I mean things like buying time for them to be on tv (PAYING FOR THE AD), you friggin idiot child!

And these vets are NOT telling the truth. God, even when you and your right wing lynch mob are caught red handed in bald face lie, even then you refuse to admit you're wrong. No wonder the right wing is hated so often!

Centurion

Another bald faced lie..they used some of the same people in this commercial in commercials against McCain. Against McCain they said "As a vet, I find.." blah blah blah..no, McCain wasn't in a boat, but they still used some of the same people 4 years ago to knock on McCain.

ronbotx

Just because the same bunch of left-wing idiots repeating the same misinformation over and over and over again does not make it accurate.

The ONLY alleged connection with McCain is the Media Contact Merrie Spaeth. I believe she was involved with the TV Ad for the Swiftvets.

The UNSUBSTANIATED allegations are coming from the Kerry campaign....

"Finally, the Kerry campaign raised questions about the public-relations company O'Neill asked to organize the news conference. The campaign charged that the firm's president, Merrie Spaeth, was "part of the effort to smear John McCain in the GOP presidential primary in 2000" and has "close ties" to the Bush White House. Kerry supporters also suggested that Spaeth had something to do with the campaign against former Georgia senator Max Cleland in 2002"

Read the article for the details:
http://www.swiftvets.com/article.php...40706195926189

I would CHALLENGE all the big mouth, lying, ignorant LIBS to come out with ONE NAME of a person in the Swiftvets organization who has EVER INVOLVED with the attack on McCain.... Just one. Utter nonsense.


Also here is the photo which Kerry used in a campaign ad which pictures Kerry with his fellow officers in Coastal Division 11. He used this photo without permission, BTW. Of the 19 pictured in the photo with Kerry, 12 consider him unfit, 4 are neutral, 2 deceased, and ONE supports Kerry.

http://www.swiftvets.com/index.php?topic=SwiftPhoto

Going by what has been said by those on this board, these Navy officers are to dismissed as liars, without examining any facts.
The only thing you need to know is that Bush was AWOL.... yet another falsehood of course.

Thee guys that support Kerry are his subordinates which were on the same boat. Many of these guys are the ones who slept in the same barracks, ate at the same mess , and worked closely with Kerry in multi-boat missions. I wouldn't expect all the draft dodgers , and graduates of Lefty-U, who have never had one day of military training to understand that an officer works just as closely with the men under him as he does with his fellow officers ; his peers. Everybody in the same unit knows everybody else, who does what, etc..... Everybody DEPENDS on everybody else.

For those of you who blindy accept the BS spewed on this board, go no further.

For those with half a brain and who want to do their own research and make THEIR OWN DECISIONS I would suggest these sources:

http://www.swiftvets.com

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...s=books&n=1000 (#2 on Amazon)

Also here is the groups reponse to Senator McCain if your interested

http://www.swiftvets.com/article.php...40806160947883

goBigtime

I agree...

And I'm sure that most of Bush's classmates and servicemen he served with would say that he's fit to run the country... right?

goBigtime

So how about a comparatively equal parody picture of Bush meeting with his advisors -- the CEO's of the fortune 1000.

Centurion

Here's some crow..EAT IT!

From the Washington Dispatch:

The "swift boat" veterans attacking John Kerry's war record are led by veteran right-wing operatives using the same vicious techniques they used against John McCain four years ago.
Behind the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are veteran corporate media consultant and Texas Republican activist Merrie Spaeth, who is listed as the group's media contact; eternal Kerry antagonist and Houston attorney John E. O'Neill, law partner of Spaeth's late husband, Tex Lezar; and retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffman, a cigar-chomping former Vietnam commander once described as "the classic body-count guy" who "wanted hooches destroyed and people killed."

In 2000, Spaeth participated in the most subterranean episode of the Republican primary contest when a shadowy group billed as "Republicans for Clean Air" produced television ads falsely attacking the environmental record of Sen. John McCain in California, New York and Ohio. While the identity of those funding the supposedly "independent" ads was carefully hidden, reporters soon learned that Republicans for Clean Air was simply Sam Wyly -- a big Bush contributor and beneficiary of Bush administration decisions in Texas -- and his brother, Charles, another Bush "Pioneer" contributor. (One of the Wyly family's private capital funds, Maverick Capital of Dallas, had been awarded a state contract to invest $90 million for the University of Texas endowment.)

When the secret emerged, spokeswoman Spaeth caught the flak for the Wylys, an experience she recalled as "horrible" and "awful." Her job was to assure reporters that there had been no illegal coordination between the Bush campaign and the Wyly brothers in arranging the McCain-trashing message. Not everyone believed her explanation, including the Arizona senator.

Centurion

And since you are so interested in the TRUTH, please note this fact also from The N.Y. Times:

"These assertions are garbage," said Gene Thorson, who was part of Mr. Kerry's crew on PCF 94, one of two boats Mr. Kerry commanded during his time patrolling the Mekong Delta.

"These people weren't there with John Kerry. If he hadn't made the right command decisions, in my opinion, we would be some of the names on that wall," Mr. Thorson said.

The ad was produced by Stevens, Reed, Curcio and Potham, the same firm that produced the presidential campaign ads of Sen. John McCain, Arizona Republican, in 2000.

"I wish they hadn't done it," Mr. McCain said of his former advisers during an interview with the Associated Press. "I don't know if they knew all the facts."

Mr. McCain was one of the lead sponsors of the campaign finance reform bill that Mr. Bush signed in March 2002. But the law has been undermined by the emergence of "527 groups" -- officially nonpartisan under the Internal Revenue Service regulations that govern them -- that have helped Democrats outspend the Bush campaign.

"The president has been on the receiving end of more than $62 million in negative attack ads from shadowy groups," Mr. McClellan said. "The president thought he got rid of this kind of activity when he signed the bipartisan campaign finance reforms into law."

Mr. Kerry's camp says the group is the creation of wealthy Bush supporters and media operatives."

The New York Times reports " Mr. Kerry's aides circulated an 18-page packet discrediting the veterans group and linking its backers to Republicans, noting that a public-relations consultant the group paid $27,000 this spring, Merrie Spaeth, was also involved in a advertising campaign attacking Senator John McCain during his tough race against Mr. Bush in the 2000 primary in South Carolina."

Centurion

And just who do you think STARTED this group in the first place?
One of the vets, right? NOPE!

From Salon.com:
-------------------------
John McCain has described the campaign by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth as "dishonest and dishonrable" and has called upon the White House to disavow and condemn the advertisements. "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt," McCain told reporters.

It's notable that Swift Boat Veterans for Truth was formed not by a Swift Boat Veteran but by Merrie Spaeth, a Republican PR hack from Houston whose late husband ran for the office of Lieutenant Governer in Texas with George W. Bush. Salon has the scoop on how the campaign was organized. Suffice it to say that the money behind Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is the same money behind the George H. W. Bush Presidential Library Foundation.
------------------------
The group was formed by a woman, a NON-VETERAN! Can't be any sort of inlfuence peddling here can there now!

bringer

i just like how kerry is campaining on his service when the first thing he did after coming how was denouce his actions and the war. photo-ops with the same people he came back and said were evil.

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Peaches

Have you guys heard the "I am XXXX and I approve this message" at the end of campaign ads? Did anyone hear that at the end of the Swiftvets ad? The White House is the government. The constitution provides free speech w/o consequences from the government (contrary to Confucy/Microchick's beliefs, the constitution doesn't provide free speech on porn message boards ) yet people are calling upon the White House to condemn this ad.

What's wrong with this picture?

Fletch XXX

I am wondering why you think I "make stuff up."

If anything, I may have misunderstood your political position. I apologize but dont think I am "making stuff up" if anything I dont pay enough attention to what you say, but I am not making things up.

I have noticed consistent and persistent comments regarding this election or two candidates, and your comments have been "thats why im not voting for either"

over and over you have insisted that "youre not voting for either kerry or bush" almost daily now. i am not making things up. in bush threads and kerry threads you make it known you are voting for neither one.

so if youre not voting kerry AND youre not voting for bush, who are you voting for?

dont call me a liar, you know what i am talking about, dont try to pass it off as me making shit up.

now give me the story about other people and run along.

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Tom_PMs

Exactly. Yet Kerry denounced the anti-bush ad put out by moveon that compared bush to hitler. He didnt have to, but it was the right thing to do. It's not complicated

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Peaches

Are you SERIOUS? Do you think there are only 3 people on the presidential ballot?

Heck, you even SAID I sounded like I was Libertarian and I agreed. So that's ONE more presidential candidate, lol!

There are over FORTY presidential candidates for 2004!

Not only that, but who said I was even voting, LOL?! I merely said I wasn't voting for Bush or Kerry and I'm not. For some reason you not only created in your mind I SAID I was voting for Nader, but you're going so far as to argue with me about what I said and didn't say, hehehehe.

Again, please show me where I EVER said I was voting for Nader, which is what you claimed.

Honeyslut

I know several kids that are going into the service. I actually saw one of the videos the service makes about flying with the young man and my family.

I have one word to say about these kids


"BRAIN WASHED " about Iraq

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ronbotx

This discussion is pointless.
When it comes down to it , we have a boat crew saying one thing and his fellow officers and superiors saying another. You weren't there and I was not there. The book with all the details and the focus of this controversy is being published next week. It is going to play out in the media, kinda like the Bush/National Guard thing.

A few more points...

1)"Another bald faced lie..they used some of the same people in this commercial in commercials against McCain. Against McCain they said "As a vet, I find.." blah blah blah..no, McCain wasn't in a boat, but they still used some of the same people 4 years ago to knock on McCain."

You never provided a name of one of the Swiftvets who was in the anti McCain ad did you? You can't.
As I stated before *sigh* , Merrie Spaeth is their hired Media Consultant and nothing more. She did not found the group. Rear Admiral Hoffman and John O'Neill did. Spaeth has denied any connection to the MCCain ads. Even if she did have a connection, it is irrelevant. You are a parrot echoing the DNC party line.

"The group was formed by a woman, a NON-VETERAN! Can't be any sort of inlfuence peddling here can there now!" = False

Here is who runs the group.

http://www.swiftvets.com/index.php?topic=AboutUs


2)If you follow the "razor sharp" logic of Centurion and others, then Jim Rassman, the Army Green Beret that Kerry fished out the water, and his primary endorser and the convention should be ignored. Why? , well he is not even in the Navy , NOR IS HE A MEMBER OF Kerry's boat crew. So by your own rules his opinion doesn't count.

3)As was stated before, many of the guys in the book are pictured here:
http://www.swiftvets.com/index.php?topic=SwiftPhoto

Please note that Kerry USED THIS PHOTO as an endorsement without permission.
These guys are shown with Kerry in Vietnam. Shall I say it again???.
Only one of his fellow officers endorses him.

Personally, I think a candidate should stand on his legislative record. In Kerry's case though, he wants us to forget his last twenty years of his anti-miltary, anti-defense, anti-intelligence, and pro-tax votes. He wants us to forget that he is the #1 liberal in the senate. He has magically transformed himself from a medal tossing, anti-war activist in the seventies with contempt for the miltary to a war hero in 2004 complete with Steven Spielberg video. Now that the cornerstone of his latest "recreation" is being questioned, he and his minions are in a panic.

dig420

Ronbotx, how many times do you have to get beat down before you admit you were wrong, that Bush and swiftvets are lying pieces of shit and you know it and that you're voting for them anyway?

yellowmenace

INTERESTING ARTICLE ABOUT RETRACTION:


http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...cism_of_kerry/

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Doctor Dre

Just don't vote for bush then

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