If you're from Europe, this might interest you - GoFuckYourself.com

Libertine · 07-23-2004, 04:29 AM

A number of European countries have presented a design for a new EU law that would hold that ALL data communications (phone calls, text messages, emails, and even surfing the internet) will be stored for 12-36 months by the government, in order to fight "terrorism and crime".

The article I found this in (it's in Dutch):
http://www.rtl.nl/(/financien/rtlz/h...lagen_0800.xml

kak_azn · 07-23-2004, 04:32 AM

mu bo jumbo!

Libertine · 07-23-2004, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kak_azn
mu bo jumbo!

?

NakedBo · 07-23-2004, 04:35 AM

Yeah they have been talking about that for a long time. Big Brother is watching you. Didn't pass in Holland last time they tried that ( or so I think) but this is European level, so I guess the big countries will push that one thru.

NickB. · 07-23-2004, 04:45 AM

big brother is gonna be watching us!
Who gives a shit? I don't do anything wrong, and if it helps them doing their job better! It's all fine with me!

Libertine · 07-23-2004, 04:45 AM

Yeah... plus, the mere mention of the word "terrorism" seems to convince people all civil rights should be revoked these days.

Libertine · 07-23-2004, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nickbaauw
big brother is gonna be watching us!
Who gives a shit? I don't do anything wrong, and if it helps them doing their job better! It's all fine with me!

Do you really want a government that spends its time following your every move?

Manowar · 07-23-2004, 04:47 AM

1984 here we come

sixxxth_sense · 07-23-2004, 04:48 AM

terrorism??? thats fucking bullshit noone in europe will buy that

Mefo · 07-23-2004, 04:52 AM

they're crazy, but I don't care much though, everything I do is legal so it's no problem for me....

eiht_98 · 07-23-2004, 04:53 AM

I'm not a terrorist so I don't care.

Libertine · 07-23-2004, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixxxth_sense
terrorism??? thats fucking bullshit noone in europe will buy that

France, Great Britain, Sweden and Ireland are proposing this law, Holland supports it, and I have no idea about the other countries. Seems pretty likely that it will go through.

Besides, just last week we had "code orange" (or maybe yellow?) here in Holland because one of our ministers made up some letter from al Qaeda

Jensen · 07-23-2004, 05:00 AM

isn't this already going on with us listening stations (echelon surveillance network) anyway? (not sure what they log and for how long though, but doubt they will tell any of us that)

Libertine · 07-23-2004, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jensen
isn't this already going on with us listening stations (echelon surveillance network) anyway? (not sure what they log and for how long though, but doubt they will tell any of us that)

I believe Echelon is American, and it just screens information... it only saves potentially dangerous stuff.

the real magoo · 07-23-2004, 05:59 AM

Same thing the communists in China are doing

polish_aristocrat · 07-23-2004, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eiht_98
I'm not a terrorist so I don't care.

Yeah, but you work in porn...

johnbosh · 07-23-2004, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kak_azn
mu bo jumbo!

??

Basic_man · 07-23-2004, 06:08 AM

Wow ! that's shit! Big brother is watching

KraZ · 07-23-2004, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
Yeah... plus, the mere mention of the word "terrorism" seems to convince people all civil rights should be revoked these days.

TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM

Tipsy · 07-23-2004, 06:11 AM

Some amazingly ignorant replies in this thread. But then I suppose the ability to wear blinkers and totally failing to see the bigger picture makes for less stress in life generally.

Regarding the e-mail and ISP thing it's already law in the UK. I wonder how many people would bitch if every letter they received through the post was opened and read or copied before they received it. Yet the same people can see nothing wrong with this happening to e-mails. Funny 'ol world we live in

roly · 07-23-2004, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
I believe Echelon is American, and it just screens information... it only saves potentially dangerous stuff.

i think it is a joint US and UK thing. but yeah it just scans for target words and stuff.

Libertine · 07-23-2004, 07:25 AM

There are a lot of people saying "I don't do anything illegal so I see no problems with it". However, the fact that you're doing nothing illegal is EXACTLY the reason that there IS something wrong with what they're doing.

One of the original ideas behind western law is that you're innocent until proven guilty, and that you're not a suspect (and thus are not to be treated as one) until there is some reason to consider you one.

Laws like this make everyone a suspect. They treat everyone as a potential threat to society. One of your biggest rights - the right to personal privacy - disappears with laws like this.

And this isn't just a single event. It's part of a much larger development. Let me give the example of my own country...
10 years ago, you could walk around on the street here, and as long as you minded your own business, the police did not have the right to harass you.
Now, in many cities you will be followed by cameras all the time, the police have the right to search you for any reason whatsoever, you are required to carry a passport or european id card at all times, etc. Basically, you're a suspect - whoever you are and whatever you do.

And does it stop here? Let's just take a look at the self-proclaimed leader of the "free world", the US. That country where the Patriot Act was introduced which, among other things, holds that people can be arrested and held for extended periods of time without a trial or even a criminal charge being made. Sure looks like things can get a whole lot worse...

Now, I don't know how much you people trust your government, but I sure as hell don't trust mine enough to give it a do-whatever-the-fuck-you-want-without-any-public-control-whatsoever license. The whole idea behind liberal democracy is that the government is "weak", i.e. that it has strict rules to abide and is under constant control of the populace.

Once the government in a liberal democracy becomes just as strong as the ones in totalitarian systems, that liberal democracy effectively ceases to be just that, and instead becomes little more than a tyranny of the majority.

And you know what? When individual citizens lose their rights and are considered constant suspects or potential threats to society, that is exactly what happens.

12clicks · 07-23-2004, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
A number of European countries have presented a design for a new EU law that would hold that ALL data communications (phone calls, text messages, emails, and even surfing the internet) will be stored for 12-36 months by the government, in order to fight "terrorism and crime".

The article I found this in (it's in Dutch):
http://www.rtl.nl/(/financien/rtlz/h...lagen_0800.xml

Euros will ignore this in their rush to condemn what America does.

MarcieB · 07-23-2004, 07:35 AM

Punkworld - Now that was a truly excellent post!

stembolt · 07-23-2004, 07:35 AM

mmmmm
wat makes u think they are not doing it before-hand??

and its all for are protection??!!!?
yeah rite!
not long before poeple will be taken away for questioning..
its like the chips you can implanted in your pets!
why would any goverment sponsor millions to locate pets.
won't be long before new borns will recieve a small injection..

brb
theres a knock at the door, mm men in black suites?

Nysus · 07-23-2004, 07:39 AM

I think it's a good idea SO LONG it is not abused; what abuse is being the hard thing to define.

Cheers,
Matt

Libertine · 07-23-2004, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks
Euros will ignore this in their rush to condemn what America does.

Actually, I'm afraid you're kinda right. Most Europeans are all too willing to give up essential liberties for a false sense of security, just like Americans.

jimmyf · 07-23-2004, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
Do you really want a government that spends its time following your every move?

I think the French are just about there already, they are the most spied on country in the world.

jimmyf · 07-23-2004, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tipsy
Some amazingly ignorant replies in this thread. But then I suppose the ability to wear blinkers and totally failing to see the bigger picture makes for less stress in life generally.

Regarding the e-mail and ISP thing it's already law in the UK. I wonder how many people would bitch if every letter they received through the post was opened and read or copied before they received it. Yet the same people can see nothing wrong with this happening to e-mails. Funny 'ol world we live in

I know in the USA ISP's keep logs on you and have been doing it for years.

arachnO · 07-23-2004, 07:44 AM

same in Russia as I know...

Frank The Tank · 07-23-2004, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NakedBo
Yeah they have been talking about that for a long time. Big Brother is watching you. Didn't pass in Holland last time they tried that ( or so I think) but this is European level, so I guess the big countries will push that one thru.

holland is a big country in the EU

Libertine · 07-23-2004, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by basadmin
holland is a big country in the EU

Ehm... no it isn't?

Manowar · 07-23-2004, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by johnbosh
??

just a surfer spamming.

07-23-2004, 04:29 AM	#1
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	If you're from Europe, this might interest you A number of European countries have presented a design for a new EU law that would hold that ALL data communications (phone calls, text messages, emails, and even surfing the internet) will be stored for 12-36 months by the government, in order to fight "terrorism and crime". The article I found this in (it's in Dutch): http://www.rtl.nl/(/financien/rtlz/h...lagen_0800.xml __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

07-23-2004, 04:45 AM	#6
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	Yeah... plus, the mere mention of the word "terrorism" seems to convince people all civil rights should be revoked these days. __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

07-23-2004, 04:52 AM	#10
Mefo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 6,169	they're crazy, but I don't care much though, everything I do is legal so it's no problem for me.... __________________

07-23-2004, 06:08 AM	#18
Basic_man Programming King Pin Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Montreal Posts: 27,360	Wow ! that's shit! Big brother is watching __________________ UUGallery Builder - automated photo/video gallery plugin for Wordpress! Stop looking! Checkout Naked Hosting, online since 1999 !

07-23-2004, 06:11 AM	#20
Tipsy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: See sig Posts: 6,989	Some amazingly ignorant replies in this thread. But then I suppose the ability to wear blinkers and totally failing to see the bigger picture makes for less stress in life generally. Regarding the e-mail and ISP thing it's already law in the UK. I wonder how many people would bitch if every letter they received through the post was opened and read or copied before they received it. Yet the same people can see nothing wrong with this happening to e-mails. Funny 'ol world we live in __________________ Ignorance is never bliss.

07-23-2004, 04:32 AM	#2
kak_azn So Fucking Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: TEXAS BAN Posts: 3,055	mu bo jumbo!

07-23-2004, 04:35 AM	#4
NakedBo Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Amsterdam 139-752-770 Posts: 1,614	Yeah they have been talking about that for a long time. Big Brother is watching you. Didn't pass in Holland last time they tried that ( or so I think) but this is European level, so I guess the big countries will push that one thru.

07-23-2004, 04:45 AM	#5
NickB. Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,855	big brother is gonna be watching us! Who gives a shit? I don't do anything wrong, and if it helps them doing their job better! It's all fine with me!

07-23-2004, 04:47 AM	#8
Manowar jellyfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 71,528	1984 here we come

07-23-2004, 04:48 AM	#9
sixxxth_sense So Fucking Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: T.O. Posts: 2,430	terrorism??? thats fucking bullshit noone in europe will buy that

07-23-2004, 04:53 AM	#11
eiht_98 Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: EU Posts: 6,103	I'm not a terrorist so I don't care.

07-23-2004, 05:00 AM	#13
Jensen Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Norway Posts: 3,790	isn't this already going on with us listening stations (echelon surveillance network) anyway? (not sure what they log and for how long though, but doubt they will tell any of us that)

07-23-2004, 05:59 AM	#15
the real magoo So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: EU Posts: 1,637	Same thing the communists in China are doing

07-23-2004, 07:25 AM	#22
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	There are a lot of people saying "I don't do anything illegal so I see no problems with it". However, the fact that you're doing nothing illegal is EXACTLY the reason that there IS something wrong with what they're doing. One of the original ideas behind western law is that you're innocent until proven guilty, and that you're not a suspect (and thus are not to be treated as one) until there is some reason to consider you one. Laws like this make everyone a suspect. They treat everyone as a potential threat to society. One of your biggest rights - the right to personal privacy - disappears with laws like this. And this isn't just a single event. It's part of a much larger development. Let me give the example of my own country... 10 years ago, you could walk around on the street here, and as long as you minded your own business, the police did not have the right to harass you. Now, in many cities you will be followed by cameras all the time, the police have the right to search you for any reason whatsoever, you are required to carry a passport or european id card at all times, etc. Basically, you're a suspect - whoever you are and whatever you do. And does it stop here? Let's just take a look at the self-proclaimed leader of the "free world", the US. That country where the Patriot Act was introduced which, among other things, holds that people can be arrested and held for extended periods of time without a trial or even a criminal charge being made. Sure looks like things can get a whole lot worse... Now, I don't know how much you people trust your government, but I sure as hell don't trust mine enough to give it a do-whatever-the-fuck-you-want-without-any-public-control-whatsoever license. The whole idea behind liberal democracy is that the government is "weak", i.e. that it has strict rules to abide and is under constant control of the populace. Once the government in a liberal democracy becomes just as strong as the ones in totalitarian systems, that liberal democracy effectively ceases to be just that, and instead becomes little more than a tyranny of the majority. And you know what? When individual citizens lose their rights and are considered constant suspects or potential threats to society, that is exactly what happens. __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/ Last edited by Libertine; 07-23-2004 at 07:27 AM..

07-23-2004, 07:35 AM	#24
MarcieB Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 214	Punkworld - Now that was a truly excellent post! __________________ Even I can make bling-bling with these people. Great support and converting sites. Check 'm out!

07-23-2004, 07:35 AM	#25
stembolt Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Location: deck 6 section 16 uss enterprise ncc1701e Posts: 463	mmmmm wat makes u think they are not doing it before-hand?? and its all for are protection??!!!? yeah rite! not long before poeple will be taken away for questioning.. its like the chips you can implanted in your pets! why would any goverment sponsor millions to locate pets. won't be long before new borns will recieve a small injection.. brb theres a knock at the door, mm men in black suites? __________________ hahahahahahahahaha once upon a time i had something to put here!!!!

07-23-2004, 07:39 AM	#26
Nysus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,817	I think it's a good idea SO LONG it is not abused; what abuse is being the hard thing to define. Cheers, Matt __________________ What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets See https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948258-untouchedmarkets-pr0-refund-money-post16744521.html and for more detailed see https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948645-re-recent-bullshit-drama-explained-detail-pr0-untouched-markets.html

07-23-2004, 07:44 AM	#30
arachnO Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cyprus Posts: 1,327	same in Russia as I know... __________________ All news from Adult Industry: new sites, new galleries, updated sites, PPS days and much more! TrafficHolder.com - Buy/Sell Adult Traffic