If you're from Europe, this might interest you

mu bo jumbo!

?

Yeah they have been talking about that for a long time. Big Brother is watching you. Didn't pass in Holland last time they tried that ( or so I think) but this is European level, so I guess the big countries will push that one thru.

big brother is gonna be watching us!
Who gives a shit? I don't do anything wrong, and if it helps them doing their job better! It's all fine with me!

Yeah... plus, the mere mention of the word "terrorism" seems to convince people all civil rights should be revoked these days.

Do you really want a government that spends its time following your every move?

1984 here we come

terrorism??? thats fucking bullshit noone in europe will buy that

they're crazy, but I don't care much though, everything I do is legal so it's no problem for me....

I'm not a terrorist so I don't care.

France, Great Britain, Sweden and Ireland are proposing this law, Holland supports it, and I have no idea about the other countries. Seems pretty likely that it will go through.

Besides, just last week we had "code orange" (or maybe yellow?) here in Holland because one of our ministers made up some letter from al Qaeda

isn't this already going on with us listening stations (echelon surveillance network) anyway? (not sure what they log and for how long though, but doubt they will tell any of us that)

I believe Echelon is American, and it just screens information... it only saves potentially dangerous stuff.

Same thing the communists in China are doing

Yeah, but you work in porn...

??

Wow ! that's shit! Big brother is watching

TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM

Some amazingly ignorant replies in this thread. But then I suppose the ability to wear blinkers and totally failing to see the bigger picture makes for less stress in life generally.

Regarding the e-mail and ISP thing it's already law in the UK. I wonder how many people would bitch if every letter they received through the post was opened and read or copied before they received it. Yet the same people can see nothing wrong with this happening to e-mails. Funny 'ol world we live in

i think it is a joint US and UK thing. but yeah it just scans for target words and stuff.

There are a lot of people saying "I don't do anything illegal so I see no problems with it". However, the fact that you're doing nothing illegal is EXACTLY the reason that there IS something wrong with what they're doing.

One of the original ideas behind western law is that you're innocent until proven guilty, and that you're not a suspect (and thus are not to be treated as one) until there is some reason to consider you one.

Laws like this make everyone a suspect. They treat everyone as a potential threat to society. One of your biggest rights - the right to personal privacy - disappears with laws like this.

And this isn't just a single event. It's part of a much larger development. Let me give the example of my own country...
10 years ago, you could walk around on the street here, and as long as you minded your own business, the police did not have the right to harass you.
Now, in many cities you will be followed by cameras all the time, the police have the right to search you for any reason whatsoever, you are required to carry a passport or european id card at all times, etc. Basically, you're a suspect - whoever you are and whatever you do.

And does it stop here? Let's just take a look at the self-proclaimed leader of the "free world", the US. That country where the Patriot Act was introduced which, among other things, holds that people can be arrested and held for extended periods of time without a trial or even a criminal charge being made. Sure looks like things can get a whole lot worse...

Now, I don't know how much you people trust your government, but I sure as hell don't trust mine enough to give it a do-whatever-the-fuck-you-want-without-any-public-control-whatsoever license. The whole idea behind liberal democracy is that the government is "weak", i.e. that it has strict rules to abide and is under constant control of the populace.

Once the government in a liberal democracy becomes just as strong as the ones in totalitarian systems, that liberal democracy effectively ceases to be just that, and instead becomes little more than a tyranny of the majority.

And you know what? When individual citizens lose their rights and are considered constant suspects or potential threats to society, that is exactly what happens.

Euros will ignore this in their rush to condemn what America does.

Punkworld - Now that was a truly excellent post!

mmmmm
wat makes u think they are not doing it before-hand??

and its all for are protection??!!!?
yeah rite!
not long before poeple will be taken away for questioning..
its like the chips you can implanted in your pets!
why would any goverment sponsor millions to locate pets.
won't be long before new borns will recieve a small injection..


brb
theres a knock at the door, mm men in black suites?

I think it's a good idea SO LONG it is not abused; what abuse is being the hard thing to define.

Cheers,
Matt

Actually, I'm afraid you're kinda right. Most Europeans are all too willing to give up essential liberties for a false sense of security, just like Americans.

I think the French are just about there already, they are the most spied on country in the world.

I know in the USA ISP's keep logs on you and have been doing it for years.

same in Russia as I know...

holland is a big country in the EU

Ehm... no it isn't?

just a surfer spamming.