Yep that would be me. I have responded to your last question about how rebills work. I will see if I missed any other questions.

Not being one to take anyone's word simply at face value, I will put your program to the same test I have put other programs to.

I will join one of your sites tonight...

I will put in a cancellation for the cross-sell in 22 hours. I will put in a cancellation for the 3 day trial in 70 hours. (Giving Paycom an extra 2 hours to process the cancellations).

Then, we will see if my cancellations are accepted. If what you claim is true---I post a rebuttal on the board---and you get more free advertising.

If I find that my trials do in fact rebill, well then first I chargeback - then I post my Paycom transaction records - and you still get free advertising - and chances are you will still shine --- after all, there is no such thing as bad publicity...correct?

And you did miss a question above..when does a "1 day trial" expire?

Now will you judge rebilling by the charge being posted or statemented on your card? Or will you judge it by the charge simply being authorized on your card?

I will judging by the amount appearing on my online Credit Card Statement. Preauthorized amounts do not show up on the statement..only those charges that have been processed and are now owing.

I do find it interesting that S.A.K did try and clear up the 3 day trial with "2" examples. I would think with a popular program like this, if what he stated is in fact company policy, then there should already be 1000's of examples.

Plus, not quite sure how the questions about the 24 hour cross-sells rebilling policy was missed. Perhaps he is looking for 1 or 2 examples of this as well.

Sorry, but I'm not buying it...(and unfortunately either are the consumers...Opps...correction..they are buying it...they just don't know it yet).

And that makes it 'right'? Being in a sales business means you can mislead your customers?

If the non content people in this business had things written in our t&c like this that effected the happyness of the consumers you were sending and you had to deal with all the mail/calls or you yourself had issues with our products and services you would be crying for the heads of every novelty seller out there. If one single company did it you would nail that guy to the wall, if all of us did it then you would simply not deal with us. Just cuz everyone does it does not mean it is right, and just because it seems everyone is doing it, trust me everyone is not. For all you know the honest people are making the most and telling you to do it that way so that you shoot yourself in the foot..... Seen it in real business do not know about here, but people seem to be people when it comes to things like that.

People always think of business and business people, ESPECIALLY corporations as these huge monsters because of little crap like this. PR is VERY important in business, but business ethics are not something that are learned on the internet as most non brick and mortor business people I have met so far have a VERY bad understanding of how business should be done. This is because the internet allows people to hide, it is VERY easy to pull this type of thing when you never have to worry about the consumer destroying your business or being in your face. Sure you last longer than real world businesses doing this type of stuff, but as I had to tell a guy who makes money selling online before, how long do you really think that you will make money like that? There is no honor amongst theives and there is very little loyalty between seller and sold to on the net because it is faceless qualities. But since you can throw these up all day for damn near nothing when compared to real world business who cares right? THE CONUSMER and one day they will be backed by someone, already I see millions of dollars being spent to fight off the FCC about the claims of a lot of oral suppliments, same type of moral decision, fancy wording and empty claims and promises, they got theirs, why do you think it will not happen to you?

I admit I didn't base my response on the percentages but because I see people talking about less than 2 months for the average membership today: the same average being bandied around on YNot back in '97 or '98.

But if the rush to cancel isn't related to the member section, what has kept members faithful to the sites which do provide solid member sections? You are also stretching credibility claiming that renewal ratios on the solid sites are due to their initial membership. You don't seriously believe that post 2000 or whenever, surfers suddenly lost interest in fresh, quality content but all the earlier ones still don't know other sites exist?

I don't pretend there aren't people jumping from site to site, especially between those offering free or discounted trials. But as an excuse for the big picture it doesn't work. It takes a special kind of loony to be constantly signing up for trials, noting all the cross-sells and TOS so he can get his cancellations in. How many times would you go through all that?

And if you are right about trials killing the market, the solution is fairly obvious...

diz

you run your program I assume..do you not crossell or upsell at all?

This guy s.a.k. should be put in the gas chamber!

especially for only having 1 cross sale!

hawgs have always used this model, and sites are worth 40 a month

Hey ..
No I dont have any cross sales/upsells so far and we work on revshare model without trials and I do get exellent results and this is how I sell porn for 4 years ...

I was pissed on APC first when I checked their websites trailer pages and got lost in "84 clicks on No or Cancel" dialer ..
Do you think your consumers are that stupid and after clicking on NO button lets say 20 times they still keep asking themselves if they gonna use the dialer or no? huh
Or its just made for clicking on Yes button by mistake ?
Would you send your traffic there?

I have my own opinion in this matter and its not just APC of course...

Give me a break ... We offer 100% every 10 days during the summer on signups and rebills which already makes it more then 35 usd .. This is the way I fight with 35 per signup programs ..
At least I am trying to make it in the cleanest way and we still do enought money ...
Regarding ratios .. more then 50% of our partners have ratios like 1:200 to 1:500 from our hosted galleries and 1:100 to 1:200 from the banners ..

I have 2 huge TGPs sending blind thumb traffic and it converts 1:2500 ...

Nothing wrong with revshare ratios

S.A.K. - Now that you have had the night to do some research..I'm still very interested in when the 1 day trial converts to a rebilling $39 membership. And, have you managed to find more then a couple of examples of when the 3 day trial rebills.

Looking forward to your reply.

I did look at some more and it is consistently 1-2 hours after the trial period is over is when the rebill happens. The 1 day free trial we are x-selling is to another company so I do not have access to that data on EXACT time the rebill happens. But it is billed through the same processor so I have no reason it would be any different. I would assume the rebill for 1 day trials would happen 24-26 hours after initial signup.

Adult PlayersCulb has been receiving traffic for over 5 MONTHS now in beta testing with solid traffic from many webmasters and last month we had exactly 1 Visa Chargeback.

As always, I am amazed how companies in this industry can partner up with other firms, without a clue as to how their partners operate. I, for one would insure that the my partner delivers the same level of service that I demand from my own company.

As noted, I will be testing your sites....both yours and your "partner's". And I will post results on the board. And, if the results differ from what has been stated here, I will charge back. But, if what you claim is true, then we both win.

Of course, there have been some indications in other posts above that you also pop-up an aggressive dialer for foreign clients. If your "cancellation" practices stated above are in fact accurate, I still do not subscribe to the "2 goods cancels one evil" theory.

AdultPlayersClub has solid people behind it. BossHawg have been running programs for as long as I can remember. In an affiliate program it is very important to have solid people behind it, and adult players club has that.

AdultPlayersClub is an A+ operatioin. nuff said

Yes, the Hawgs do operate a solid "webmaster" program. But this thread was never about the webmaster. This is about the fair treatment of the consumer.

nuff said...

Interesting no webmaster here said they'd happily promote a $20 PPS program *without* all the evil stuff.

Ah fuck that, why not just get $5k checks every 2 weeks for doing nothing, that'd be the ideal sponsor!

100 same old tricks :Graucho

Because as a surfer, that's all 49thParallel cares about,

:thumbsup

Its all an impulse buy and why should a surfer stay a member with all the free shit out on the net.

Hmm thats retarded to say the least here some rebill stats, rebill months are on the far right 15 bucks per month you do the math

http://www.feetfantasys.com/rebill1.gif

http://www.feetfantasys.com/rebill2.gif

http://www.feetfantasys.com/rebill3.gif

:Graucho

S.A.K and crew are good people ...

For the bashers :321GFY


This is business and everyone is out to make money ..after all isnt that why we are in business..?

I for one stand behing APC and crew ..they have been great to us at illcash.com and we will continue to do business together...

As for the xsells situation

When you go to best buy and buy a printer ..do they sell the cable with it ....or upsell it to you when you check out.. ?

If its porn or buying printers ....or anything else there is always an upsell offered to you ..

Even when you go to a place to eat and you ask for water ...and waiter replies ..with ..there are free refills on soda...would you like one ....? Thats an upsell


The money is getting harder and harder to make in this business and offering upsells is another way to maximize the revenue you make ..

There is nothing wrong with it

Of course this is all my opinion ...

Maybe you should be posting on Readers Digest and not GFY



Where's p1mpdog when you need him. Webmasters wanna get PPS, then they bitch about you making money of "their" surfer.

Why can't people just make money and be happy??

don't mind 49thParallel... he's nothing but a bitter surfer who forgot to cancel his trial, got rebilled, had his wife bitch at him and now he has a personal vendetta against all sites that rebill.

He's right. But, we don't really have to argue. Visa noticed what we've done, and they've reacted. Their reactions have been illogical, silly, and costly. They are going to get worse. We saw thousands of Merchant accounts closed recently. Pretty soon the costs of running these sorts of operations will balence out.

What does that mean for Adult Player Cash? Well, it means that they will probably run just inside the law, until the law changes, or NastyDollars takes over the internet. I can respect those guys. I don't even really think they like me, but they convert on Pichunter well, and offer huge amounts of content to the user, with a low price, and good customer service. I joined them, and fucked with them, cancelling, asking for refunds, missing obvious things in the terms. Pretty much anytime I said anything, they just gave me my refund, and told me they were sorry. Maybe APC will take the earnings they make this way, and invest them in being a nasty dollars of the future, or maybe just when legislation changes.


Bottom line, 49th, thanks for the report, I appreciate the information. But don't worry too much, theirs is coming for them, as time moves on.

TarPy

bump for 2nd crosssell

i hate to see the hawgs leaving money on the table!

http://payapimp.com

Would it really change the facts if I was just a "bitter surfer". Nope, it wouldn't. But fact is, I could tell you more about how most adult programs work then the reps working for the companies.

And, for those that are checking, I'm not a surfer...been in this business since 2001. And even promoted some of the programs I have included in my expose...until I started looking into the backroom operations....and decided that I for one had to draw the line. If making money meant being nothing more then a glorified crook...no thanks.

I make about 10% of what I did when I started..but that's a fair price to pay.

And there's some of you who even know my first identity on this board...starting in early 2001. Same approach, same style...but when I went on a long, long holiday, I forgot my password and found it easier to start over.

And as far as crooked programs go...watch out..I have no plans on quitting anytime soon!