Less competition is never a bad thing :glugglug

Some should and will probally take this to court and get an injunction like COPA.

Think about it this way, if I go to a porno shop and rent a movie does the porno shop have to keep 2257 records? Hell no. Well what is the difference then between them and me running a TGP? NONE.

If HBO shows a softcore porno at 2 AM do they have to have 2257 records? Hell no, once again.

And what about Google Images? According to this new law they will be required to gather 2257 records for every image they have. I seriously doubt they will do that nor do I think they will get rid of Google Images.

Good points.

It's because theres a myth out there in mainstream land that websites SEND you information, whether you've asked for it or not.

I recently saw a news piece on CNN and the reporter was trying to describe how "surfing" works. He said in effect that the server is *sending* information that you may or may not wish to see.

As we know, thats pure shit on so many levels, but it's the prevailing mis-understanding out there in the "real" world.

Someone needs to have a court case that defines how the 'net really works. The browser *literally* is requesting a webpage. A server merely listens for a request, and if the page is found, it's served.

But to listen to media, you'd think it's as if a porn store was coming to your home and forcing porno under your door.

Pretty fucked up.

This is quite ridiculous. They can safely assume noone will be compliant. Hell, even if I was operating in the States, I wouldn't have all that info for myself! What about all the TGP galleries I've made? And the promo packs I've given out to countless sites? I don't know where they've put which pictures, or if they're still using them at all!

And what about my hard goods? I have to list each file name that on an archive CD or in a slideshow in my DVDs? Or would it be enough to just have a copy of the CD on hand? Arg!

What about the surfers?
If they surf on an "illegal" site, are they in fact doing something illegal? Uuuhh...if they download a picture, we have to tell them to download a document too?

And how about voyeur sites? It makes no sense anymore :1orglaugh

Or all models saying "hi, I am 18/19", when the truth is that they are older? They can't lie anymore, without beeing "cought".. :waaaaahh

here it is plain and simple. GW and Ahshahahahaha don't REALLY want you to comply with this law they want you to go out of business. PERIOD. they think these laws will stop porn. I can't wait until Ashhahahahaha decides to go after the hun.

Ashhahahahaha : "We need to get this HUN guy he's not following the new rules and perverting the minds of innocent Americans. let's nail his ass to the wall guys"

Assistant : "Um sir the Hun is from the Netherlands"

Ashhahahahaha: "So?"

Assistant: "Well he's not American so we can't enforce American laws on him"

Ashhahahahaha: "The Netherland out our allies the will hand him over to us. get me Netherlands on the phone. Hello netherlans we want to extridite the Hun""

Netherlands: "Why?"

Ashhahahahaha "He's breaking our porn laws. He needs to be punished"

Netherlands: "Is it child porn?"

Ashhahahahaha: "No it not but we in America want to ban ALL porn thus he is breaking US law so hand him over."

Nertherlands: ( laughing heard in background ) "Um no and maybe you need to get laid more. No don't bother us with anymore of your stupid laws. Goodbye!"

Ashhahahahaha: "Damn we can't go after porn that's not from the US or from Americans. How much of this evil porn is non-US?"

Assistant: "At least 30-50% maybe more."

Ashhahahahaha: "Well then these new laws are just kind of stupid and pointless aren't they?"

Meanwhile as Ashhahahahaha is busy going after adult webmasters a plane is crossing into Whitehouse air space. An explosion is soon heard.............

:1orglaugh

You have hit the nail on the head, I believe! But the question remains: now what do we do?

Run Forrest! Run!

Go softcore ? Only give out softcore images and video to affiliates, keep the hardcore in the members area

That sounds fine to me. I hate giving out hardcore stuff. But I still have to keep records of each and every hardcore pic in my collection, both online and in hard goods. Ugh.

Filing a lawsuit is the only real way to stop it, but I am sure the industry will just sit on its collective ass instead. Then what you will have is some small time webmasters getting busted to make an example of. They won?t have the money to take it to trial, they will get offered some plea bargain and then they will plead guilty which will legitimize the law.

If you have the records, make a url inside the picture among with the watermarks. That would make it easier for promotion.

Yep ! Its gonna be a pain in the ass for you US webmasters :2 cents:

I'm in Canada, but we may choose to follow suit if the new regulations "work" as they hope.

Either comply with the new laws or go with all links. And not link to anything you have hosted. I aint hosting crap anymore. I assume all my sponsors will have the 2257 info on their hosted galleries and since I'm not hosting them that's their problem. I'll link to them and that's about it I guess. Or I supose to could just promote anime. However I feel that somehow Ashhahahahaha is just stupid enough to request 2257 info on a cartoon.

Everyone ( well at least Americans ) needs to tell surfers what is going on on make them realize the GW wants to ban porn. Tell them that it's BUSH'S fault you have removed pics from your site.

Now I'm not saying we can convince anyone that loves the taste of Bush's dick to vote otherwise but maybe we can get a small % of people that might not vote or that maybe are undecided to vote for Kerry. Florida was won by less than 600 votes, 7 other states were won by fewer than 8000 votes. Every vote does count and this is SERIOUS. We reach tens of millions of Americans everday how many will see our sites and galleries over the next 3 1/2 months. All it takes is just a small % of those people to NOT vote for Bush and we can get this country back.

Well, that's very well and good. What about people who actually run the paysites though?

My bad :) My only concern is that I'm currently hosted with a US company, I don't promote sites using hardcore content though so I doubt I should have a problem.

You are so right and its sad, now if they were smart the big players would get together and say. We all have to throw in and if they go after a little guy , we send a lawyer because if the little guy loses we all loses but they wont. They will say thank god it was them and not us lol.
And porn on the net is pushed in peoples faces I get at least 5 graphic spam every day. Girls faces covered in cu m, fisting and its all USA companies. They are targetting our industry because its like the wild west ,we dont self regulate.. Most feel fuck the law I can do whatever I want. So now they will come in and clean it up. They wont end US online porn but there will be alot less of it.

You mean like sponsors well they'll have no choice but to follow the new rules. And you may think this doesn't effect you if your not a US webmaster but if your sponsor is US based I'm 100% sure that thay'll require ALL webmasters to comply with this law if you want to use them as a sponsor.

I don't have a sponsor. I run my own paysite and have no affiliates or anything like that. I just stick to selling my own stuff. But I am still concerned, since it's hosted in the States and the company who manages my billing and other backend stuff is American.

It depends do you get most of your own traffic or do affiliates get it for you. If you create all your own content, you should have all your records pretty much squared up already. The only pain in the ass will be doing the lists of urls but it will be more boring than impossible. Actually this is one case where a small self contained(do their own content and traffic) mom pop site will do better on this then a big site. The big problem is a large number of mom pop sites arent compliant from the first page of their site. If you have a po box or a email for the custodian of record, your in violation even before they look at your records.

Thats like I said in that Allie thread were she was bragging about all these people signing up to be affiliates. I said how are you going to feel about them when you have to give all of them a picture of your drivers license.

Right, BUT still. I don't want to put my home address on the net, and I'm betting 90% of the amateurs out there run their sites from home.

Then you are in violation if you were in the US. It would be time to take $200 a month and get a small office for their records. If sites cant afford that , then its time for a career change. Its time for the buisness to mature. Here is another one they come to check 2257 for a am porn its someone's house and she has two or three kids there. Do you think they will ignore that?

Porn has been too cheap to get into and thats why there is so much of it. We had a little little lingerie store and that cost 15k to start. THis is going to thin the herd.

An office for 200$ a month? Where are you living?

Atlanta GA , it can be grade c space , its a business mailing address and a address for the corporation and a physical place to keep the records.. Which everyone should have. I found a shit 10x10 office for $195 a month with dsl.

What good would that be if nobody is there to meet the feds when they come knocking at the door?...I do see where elli is coming from though. I'm not about to put my home address on the net no matter what. If I get busted, (which I doubt since I use older models and I'm smalltime), I'll cross that bridge when I get to it..

Believe me, if this shit passes, they'll go after folks like Lightspeed, TNV, triplexcash, etc. before they'll bother with a small fry who pushes older black skanks..There's no headline in busting me.

You need to provide "proper ID". Proper ID in the US means a valid driver's license. We can't be expected to hand out copies of our models ID to every affiliate. Currently, this documentation takes up sixteen notebooks. Are you saying that for every affiliate who wants to promote Lightspeed Cash has to have a copy of these records? I wonder how much it would cost for me to print up ten thousand photocopies of these files and ship them out to affiliates. And this would be just for Lightspeed Cash. A TGP, in concept, would have to have this informaiton for dozens of programs. Then think about keeping these files updated!

I've got a good question for you Charly...... This new law stats that content producers must list the URL of every location of every photo or video you've produced. A content company in the US would be considered the "primary producer" of said photos, and would be required by law to have the URL of each photo each time it's used. How in the world are content providers going to do that?

(Note: I purchase content from Charly on a regular basis and he provides the model release forms and copies of ID of each model.)

No only those affiliates that use actual sexually explicit photos of Lightspeed girls. You guys are in better shape than most programs as most of your content doesn?t fall under 2257.

Consider hosting the images yourself, then freesite makers and gallerybuilders can frame the images or something.

My name, home address and phone number is right in my whois information. No biggy. Then again, I'm not a model with fans either.

My brother used to rent a "music studio" (maybe 5x10 at most) for $50 a month. Look around if you need a seperate physical address.

You guys dont have a lawyer do you? I have a lawyer , a real lawyer who is a registered member of the Bar. We had a phone meeting on the subject, you will have to give out full info to affiiliates who use content provided by you that falls under 2257. It doesnt matter if you think is fair or doable thats what Johnny Ash wants. Also there is the 80/20 rule I highly doubt every registed affiliate is active. This is a time to clean house.

If the feds knock and no one is there. Thats not against the law, they can make a appointment to come back. If you cant afford a office its time to see if this is a profitable career for you . If you cant afford a small office ,its safe to assume you wont have the money to fight them in court so waiting to get busted is not a great idea. There is a .5% chance of getting bothered at all , it all depends on how big of a gambling person you are.

I don't know where all of this high and mighty hoiety toiety "if you can't afford an office it's time to see if this is a profitable career" bullshit....The problem is that people are too busy to glance over a paragraph and then come with the arrogance...

I wasn't talking about whether or not an office is affordable, my POINT that I was trying to make is that it MIGHT not be any good to rent a "grade c" office that is nothing but an empty room and a file cabinet...An office like that would mean that you would probably never be there, which in turn I questioned the effectiveness of having an office door to knock on that you'll NEVER be there to answer in the first place....That is why I asked the question.

I would explain all of my questions in detail up front but that would be even more reading for someone to glance over and then make an irrelevant statement.

And on the flip side, I won't worry about YOUR life or career and you won't worry about MINE....Ok? Thanks.

I dont worry about your career and life I was talking to Ellie and you had added your thoughts. This is public board its not like I called or wrote you personally , I know this will blow your mind but I acutally care about my fellow webmasters and if I can make someone think and take action to protect themselves that makes me feel good. Also if you get arrested and cop a plea that effects all of us. We dont work in bubbles.

I thought it was obvious that the mention of an office had strictly to do with having a physical address, but not your home address..

It's a write off too :)

Another benefit is for those who rent, you have all your business mail sent to the office. IF you move from your appartment you dont have to go thru the pain of changing everything and hoping everyone got it right. Also I read on this board everyone that made a move to a office increased their income.

And goodness knows everything you read on this board is true. :Graucho

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

ah ha! Hoisted by your own petard.

It's on the board, so it's true!? :Graucho

Tony, what about the idea of sponsors hosting full images themselves and affiliates given code to frame the images, or otherwise NOT host them but have them show on their websites?

I know some webmasters that already do this. Set up a block of thumbs and pics, then frame them for galleries and sites at will..

lol Cute and funny good combo, well think about it . At home its easy to get distracted and its like I am always working so I can do it later. First with a office you have extra rent, so you want to make that pay off or cover itself. Secondly when going to the office you have to get dressed and you are going to work. Also another positive is it cuts down on web spread, less access to food at the office lol.

Thats a good idea , would have to ask on that one.

I forsee VERY big business for Canadian adult hosting companies very soon..

Of course we have a lawyer - An entire law firm in fact. They've told me that no one has any idea how this law will effect everyone and that it will be up to an jury to decide. More or less they've told me to be prepared. And trust me - I am.

oh come on people this is a PROPOSED law.. It is not in the books yet. If you can show me where it says this is the law that will be put on the books at such and such date then I'll worry about it.

Do you guys realize how many laws are proposed but never happen? I don't know either but I bet it's a shitload. The ones that do go into effect are normally changed and toned down by the time they are ever made law.

So please link me to something that tells me the sky is really falling or else I'm going to go back to sleep.

My lawyer basically said the same thing, until it goes to court . Some of the things are unclear. I didnt mean to offend you , If I did I am sorry. I was surprised you were asking for opinions here because you guys are huge thats all . :) You and the other big guys should talk at internext because you dont want the first legal battle over this to be between the feds and some single mom with no money in Ohio.

Well that is the whole problem. I am sure some of this will get invalidated in court eventually, but until it does (it might be several years) we all have to comply with it even though it is awfully written. We could take an aggressive bold step as an industry and file a lawsuit seeking the regulation to be ruled invalid, but like I said above the industry will just sit on its collective ass and wait for something to happen. The AG will use this to his advantage and target people that can?t defend themselves. BTW: I will pledge $500 towards anyone that sets up an industry group that wants to mount a legal challenge to these regulations.

Elli and anyone else who cares to listen:

This is not a new law, these are regulations proposed under exisitng law. Once past the comment period they may or may not be modified and then will be placed into effect.

The burden is onorous even if you own your own content because you need to update and cross reference every image on every web to every model by real name and stage name. These files need to be updated everytime a new image is added and copys of the image and date of publication added.

We do record keeping for all ladies who host with us and always have so that their personal information does not have to appear online. We have accepted the role of primary producer. That of course is a service that now will have real risks and costs. But we wil continue to provide the service.

It will increase the pressure to look at everylink, every image from anyother site used on sites we host. The only simple way to deal with this is to not accept sexually explict images unless the 2257 info is provided. I would NEVER recommend to one of our clients that they provide their ID and personal information to ANYONE just to get a link. Just use images that are not sexually explicit and this law does not apply.

The government is placing most models at physical risk with this requirement. The logic would make more sense if it applied to models who look under 21, however that is subjective so they are doing it all.

If enforced this will change the adult business model completely and eliminate most small amateur sites. It will not upset our business model but it will add many many hours a month of enforcement work and therefore raise operating costs.

I suspect they will enforce it because it is a way around the Supreme Court decisons on free speech. No one outside of the adult industry cares if they shut us down. People like porn but will never admit it in public.

What bothers me is these changes (meaning does not go before congress for vote) in the law come just several months after the last set of laws (was voted on) regarding 2257.
When they voted, they increased jail time and fines. It also made it so the Attorney General has to report to congress once per year detailing how many 2257 record checks they did, how many prosecutions, and so on.
So to answer some questions, yes they do plan on checking info soon. It is now basicly required by law of the AG to do so. Unless of course the Attorney General wishes to go before congress and say "I did not check nor prosecute any this year." Which I do not see any AG ever doing (democrate or republican). This change of course was due to that lack of enforcement.
Following any adult history one would lend to believe that they already have a very large list of sites and studio's that they plan on pouncing on all at one time on the same day. They would already know that there is a chance some will fight given points of the law all the way to the US Supreme court and knowing how the Government cares, they do not give a shit. They are the people who coined the phrase "you can beat the rap but can not beat the ride". Even if you do win you still lost, monitarly at the very least. In the meantime while those that did not take a plea fight it out, they will have an open invatation into checking everything one could imagine of those in violation looking for additional crimes such as the all to comon tax evasion.

First I'll say I didnt read the whole thread.

Second, I'll say that the very act of creating the databased information in order to be compliant means that ALL content will have to be databased, therefore nothing will be exempt as retroactive, as the attorneys I've heard from state.

If all goes on schedule, 30 days after August 24, 2004.. they become part of the law.

It seems that Congress gave the DOJ the ability to make amendments to 2257 statue...

So yes, these are proposed and open for public comment, but they could be made harsher due to conservative groups asking for tougher restrictions, or these current "proposed" regulations will be amended as is.

Lots of buzz going on with attorneys on this issue as they file their own public statements to DOJ about what is wrong with the "proposed" regulations.

My FAQ on 2257 changes:
http://www.2257lookup.com/2257ForWebmasters.html



-brandon