"At the same time, a requirement is proposed to
be added that the identification card used to verify identification by the producer must be independently accessible by government entities in order to ensure its legitimacy. Thus, driver's licenses--which are routinely accessed through the States' departments that manage such licensing and motor vehicle registration--are a prime form of identification. "

According to this piece of proposed legislation USA webmasters will only be able to deal with content providers that can provide them with a USA drivers license or other approved ID document than can be accessed by government entities.

No it wouldnt they have to be able to trace the document back to its government agency. So the drivers license number must be seen to be traced back to the dept of motor vehicles.

"government entities" does not explicitly say US gov't. I think it implies any gov't? Otherwise.... that means you can only use US produced content as well.

Good point... could get messy.

I was just thinking the same thing regarding Chelsea ,.,.
She is a popular model for us and all I need is some weird surfer signup to the affiliate programs and get her name and address. When she is killed who do I complian to? The Government who established this law?

If they have questions regarding any of our models they can call us, when we sell content we always ad her photo ID with all vital info except the birthdate blacked out and our toll free number.

Ah, this sounds like fun.

I am so glad we did all that stuff way back when we started. I guess its time to go thru all my modelreleases again, double check and cross check with all urls and attach then to the Model release forms.

ah, yeah,, I have no life lol

Its not your choice its the law. lol

This is a USA law so it would be USA Government entities. The USA can't decide on laws for the rest of the World. So lets say I shoot a set in Australia and I have the models Australian drivers license available how will the USA authorities that are investigating a site with this specific set be able to access the Australian drivers license database to check up on the validity of it?

I have a problem with the models personal information such as real name and address being available to just anyone. All it would take for some sicko is to pick out a girl he likes, pay the $30 bucks the set costs and bingo...he has all of her personal information to harass her. With the amount of sicko's on the net I can see this happening. Now you might say that the average joe wouldn't know this is all you have to do....but some of these guys who get facinated with a girl go to any lengths and try anything to find out who the girl actually is. I'm sure many of you have seen people join this board....giving a URL to a picture and asking anyone if they have information on the model. Well if they found GFY and figured out this might be the place to ask...they can go the next step. Scary shit!

Holy shit....But if the woman is CLEARLY an old skank, why in the fuck would someone try to put you in jail for that shit unless there was a personal vendetta against you..

I can't see a jury sending someone to jail for posting pics of a skank that is CLEARLY in her thirties.

Alright, say it's not a skank. Are you planning on making bank off skanks? Say it's a picture of someone like Christine Young or Little April.

They cant prosecute you for child porn unless you create the image. I dont see anyway you could go to jail if you bought the content from someone else or someone produced it.

Unless they could prove you knowlingly did it, in which case you deserve jail lol.



Thats my :2 cents:

Did you even comprehend what I wrote before you posted that? I said OLD. I'm not talking about the money made on it because that's not the fucking point...the POINT is that Rochard was saying how someone can throw you in jail over some age verification records IN SPITE OF the woman being 30 years old.

So if it was a picture of someone like Christine Young or Little April, my statement wouldn't even fucking apply would it?

Pardon me, I misread.

I bet your mother is proud of that attitude you have. :2 cents:

The models don't live in our offices and I need to give out their real name and home address to everyone in the industry?

I don't have all of my files with me tonight - they are at the Lightspeed Offices - but it says somewhere in there "or a US State Department Approved ID or Passport".

I know what I'm going to do...bury my head in the sand and hope no one notices me.

That's just it! It doesn't matter how old the model looks or is, they can put you away for sloppy bookkeeping at this point.

(b) Picture identification card means a document issued by the United States, a State government or a political subdivision thereof, or a United States territory that bears the photograph and the name of the individual identified, and provides sufficient specific information that it can be accessed from the issuing authority, e.g., a passport issued by the United States or a foreign country, driver?s license issued by a State or the District of Columbia, or identification card issued by a State or the District of Columbia.

What I don't understand is the part about a passport from a foreign country. How are USA authorities going to access this information or are they refering to a foreign model working in the USA and they have his/her foreign passport info on record. I can't see how all the countries in the world are going to allow USA authorities to access their citizens info.

If they are your affiliates and promote your sites with pictures of your models. They have to a full model release, the justice department doesnt give a shit about your models . So 10,000 affiliates your sending off 10,000 model release packets if they are using images covered under 2257.In fact they probably hope this will discourage girls from doing porn.

They cant just put you away there is still due process. They will go for easy wins first. Young looking teen sites with sloppy bookkeeping are better targets than mlif sites with sloppy bookkeeping.

My attitude comes from arrogance and a high IQ....Plus I'll never pass up a chance to tell a white woman off if she comes at me wrong :Graucho

THE SKY IS FALLING!

we should refer content producers to him so he can handle all the 2257 requirements for us as it says in the new proposed laws that the information can be electronic in addition to on paper

I came at you wrong? M'kay. I'll be sure to have my kid gloves on hand next time.

This industry as a whole has refused to organise itself, found countless excuses not to come together and now we are seeing the results.

Many are not even going to the website provided to register comments about the new law, claiming it will make them a target, well I got news for you. If you are in the US you are already a target.

Chances of this industry coming together and forming an effective union to represent us and fight for us are less than my chances of shutting up and telling how I see it.

We got targetted by Acacia purely because of the way we are disorganised, we only are in a position of winning that one because of the brave stand a few took. It's still not won and how many have given to the fight to make sure we have the money to win?

So chances of this industry overturning the US goverment are.......

I say we because I still feel part of this, even though the passing of this law will help me and hurt others in the same part of the business as me.

I have always given out 2257 info and always campaigned that buyers should insist on recieving it and checking it. Seems a lot who argued the point against me are red faced now.

Assume this is going to go through, unless a lot of people start pointing out the stupidity of the changes.

The original 2257 law was a shambles and never used, this one is a straight jacket designed to be used prior to the election to show what a good guy Ash hahahahaha is and what a good job he's doing protecting children.

Truth is by the time it's tested in court and the reprocussions are known he will be out of office or re-elected and won't give a shit.

Anyone advising that you sit back and wait until the law is passed, before getting your 2257 documents in order. I dangerous, especially if that person is a brokier naming others as Custodian of Records who are God knows where. Which shows how bad the original law was and how it needed changing.

Who can name the content provider who lists a dead man as a Custodian of records? And don't ask me to tell you, you're pornographers and YOU are the ones who should know.

Not to everyone who asks, but everyone who publishes porn on the Internet.

Otherwise how does the publisher know he's not publishing and underage girl and what measures is he taking to make sure the content is legal?

I can't see in the new ammendments where it says you have to give out a models address. But privacy of models was one of points I raised in my comment to the DOJ, the other was the impact this would have on the US industry and the effect would probably cost over $100,000,000 which they think it will not.

If these laws go through as they are it will cripple the US Adult Internet Industry, Because the off shore businesses will fill the void.

Guess what? This is just another form of harrassment courtesy of the Bush administration.........long term? This law won't hold up due to invasion of privacy etc. Short term? Will have everyone scrambling.

Leave it to fuckface Bush and John Asshead.

I doubt that a third party having the papers and you only linking to some electronic information is sufficient. I think this just means you can have an electronic copy that makes it easier for them to check it without having to send around all the stuff, but I don't think it will replace the requirement of having the papers stored physically by YOURSELF.

They didn't come up with this law to protect anyone, it's not about protecting children, it's clearly about hurting the online porn industry...even if they want to make you think it's not.

I think it blows... but what CAN be done? While this affects all the magazines as well, they're probably already compliant. Who will lead a fight against this bill, and who will lead it? Who will fund it?

Tom, you've nailed it. Based on what I've read, they haven't once checked any records under the existing law. IMO, this "clarification" is just an attempt to make things harder for all of us who actually follow the existing laws. Great, logical thinking, this administration has.

RocHard, you know I love you (more than I can say, 'cause venturi might be lurking) but if (*cough* when) this all goes through - and I believe it will, because it does NOT have to go before Congress...they're not pushing this as a law, but rather as a "clarification" (yeah, right)...you will either have to make your models' info available to webmasters, or expect all your webmasters to pull Lightspeed provided content.

Silver lining? Programs may have to spend more time and effort determining the legitimacy of webmasters.

Don't get me wrong - I am not happy about this. At best, it's going to make my record-keeping duties a living hell. At worst, it will put me out of business. That's a real possibility and I'm not taking it lightly. I'm just trying to look on the bright side for the moment.

I dont want to be flamed for this, but how are these people going to track you down?

They hop on the internet and find something that looks childish images and then do a whois? I mean how will they find out if it is you doing the thumb tgp?

I say get an offshore server to protect yourself from the server company link and then change your whois info to a non existant offshore address.

At best they will do a whois and see your not american and check DNS to see an offshore hosting company and leave you alone. I know at godaddy I can change my whois info at any time with no worries.

At worst they spent a shitload of time trying to track you down... maybe from affilate records of your money trial unless you use a sponser located offshore as well.

I would cover my tracks until I get the paperwork i need, looks like text tgps and cj's and link list will dominate again with text links to sponsers

i guess i was burying my head in the sand on this, i'd heard about this shit and thought they were proposed changes and somebody sane would make this somewhat workable and reasonable. This is a nightmare. Anybody in this industry tells you they are ready for this is a liar because nobody is. You are talking about literally 100's and 100's of man hours to do what's required. What they're attempting to do has little to with protecting children and everything to do with making it so hard for pornographers to do business some will give up and others they'll make examples of and throw in jail.

i bet 90% of the content on anybody's server unless you're a Nasty Dollars type operation with all your own content is now useless if you don't want to risk going to jail. good luck rounding up all the 2257 from all the content providers for all the content you have on your servers - they are requiring you have a database cross-referencing every image you publish. when they come knocking you can't go 'well i have all my 2257 information in this file cabinet or on this hard drive, give me a few hours and I'll trace that photo' - you don't have a system in place and the information ready you're out of luck.

i really think for some people the best thing is either to play russian roulette and ignore it or start over - maybe write a script to find out the name of every jpeg and movie file on a server and replace it all with content you do have 2257 releases for.

i can't believe the ACLU or the Free Speech Coalition hasn't done anything yet, unless somebody gets into court fast this is going down.

Think about the online adult video stores with thousands and thousands of box cover jpegs, some even have screencaps - useless now, can't publish them. i'm not even sure a messageboard like GFY will be able to allow people to post sex pics.

the only good thing i can think of is that content thieves now have something more serious to worry about than a C & D.

IMHO, the only thing to fight is requiring "secondary producers" to have full info on the models and not just reference to the name/address of the primary who does hold it.

Everything else... like actually keeping records on where you got each picture seem sensible to me. :2 cents:

But if there is a "fight" it should be just to make the changes more reasonable. I think on the issues of model privacy, driving $$$ offshore, and impact on small business... We'd be pleasantly suprised to see how many judges or even Senators would see the validity of those arguments.

If you don't give them an inch... they'll just take a mile anyway.

Since the "Big Bad Bush" has shut down... what... ZERO 'egal' adult porn sites so far...(I feel no remorse if he goes after actually kiddie porn of course)...it is hard to know just how much enforcement they have planned.
i.e. Ashhahahahaha has the existing 2257 and hasn't used it yet.

Do the esteemed experts here think the intent is to scare off 90% of the websites with legal/paperwork requirements....
Or do they have their eye on a certain offending site(s) and want the biggest stick to go beat them with??

ps. Anyone call John Kerry? Just wondering if he'd come out publicy against it? :1orglaugh Yep. that would really make NOW and the soccer moms happy.

i say 95% of people will bury their heads in the sand and hope for some court to throw this crap out in the near future or there's never a knock at their door. the odds are pretty large against it happening to you - 1 out 3 people get cancer from cigarette smoking yet millions still do, these odds are like 10,000 to one, maybe more, unless Ashhahahahaha has some nazi like plan in place for mass enforcement of this. how many webmasters do you know that have been investigated ever? not many.

the regulations will result the following imho:
1. USA losing huge amounts of $$$ because of webmasters moving their business to offshores
2. The whole industry efficency increase. Gallery submitting procedure becomes tougher => less minor webmasters post galleries (kinda Darwin's natural selection) => storng become stronger and gets more revenue

But there's no doubt the regulation will bring concern to everybody involved

I think that if this law goes into effect, it will effectively wipe out small webmasters.. why? Not because they don't want to be in the industry, but because those producing the images won't want to risk their lifeblood (their models) that way. They will likely stop distributing content in a general way and keep with exclusive, larger clients that can be held accountable for misuse of the model's information. That, and a lot of affiliate programs will effectively go the way of the wind as big sponsors will want to remove the headaches of tracking affiliate content and just do their promotion themselves.

is this also for brick and mortar video stores? is a video store that sells/rents adult movies going to have to have a database of every performer with documentation linked to what movies on the shelves she's in?

Look, lets call a spade a spade here........

the new regulations are an invasion of privacy, that is clear........it has less of a chance making it than COPA did, and look what happened to COPA.........

all i can say is fuck Bush and his kissing ass of his religious nut supporters in this, an election year. its part of their ongoing war against us.

we'll be partying in November as Kerry is leading in the major swing states such as Ohio, etc

Alot of people have it very wrong

1. ACLU is not going to go to court to protect adult webmasters. They went to court about COPA not to protect you and what we do is not protected speech anyway. They went to court to protect sexuality sites, female sites, artist sites where adult matters could be discussed or viewed but werent pornographic . With COPA they were lumped in withus so they fought for those people.

2. Model privacy get this out of your heads , they dont care. THey will say if you cant give full releases to your affiliiates then you are not filtering your people well enough.Thats your problem not ours. This will also discourage girls from doing porn they have probably thought of this too.

3. You just cant move everything offshore unless you plan to move with it
If money comes into the USA they can find you. Dont assume they are stupid they are not. During the meese commission one of the ways they got porn people was for tax evasion.

4. The sponsor program model is going to change , its going to have go inhouse if they truly want protect models . That or they they will have to get to know people before they let them sign up to be affiliates.

5. Brandon is a great guy but until his new product is approved by the justice department. You have to keep records your self.

It comes down to .5% thats your chance of them knocking on your door. Do you want to take the risk?

These rules are stupid and idiotic, they are so unclear that if they ever try to enforce them, they'll get locked in legal crap for YEARS. And 75.2 ii (3) is so unclear that its just funny. They keep going back and forth about when one needs to update the records and when not, and that a secondary producer has to just get a copy of the records when they get the content, they do not even have to extend the records if they put the stuff on certain urls, at least it is not clear, I mean the webmaster only has a COPY of the docs, how can you edit a copy?

dosen't matter, they can not violate someone's rights in order to protect someone else.

Well, it looks a mess for sure. From reading the last few weeks and such, it looks like what I'll personally do is eliminate everything I ever had that was considered to be in the "teen" niche. Frankly, there's far too many people trying to push that niche anyway, and for me it's never, ever, been profitable.

Lets stay realistic here, the premise of the whole thing isn't to make every producer an excellent record keeper. It's so that if the authorities see a picture or video and they think the girl or guy is not old enough to give consent, they have another weapon in the arsenal to go after the people hosting it, serving it, producing it, profiting from it.

In other words in my humble opinion, if you have a cluster of teen sites and focus on the teen niche, you can have every record in 100% perfect order and still be much more likely to be looked at very closely.

Also, since this isn't retroactive in 99% of cases (I think), I believe I'll explore more and more no-content ways of getting traffic. After all, the idea of a affiliate (which is all I am), using content is as samples to get the surfer to the paysite so I can make some money.

So in response to the original thread question, what I think I'll do is eliminate what I believe is the highest-risk niche(s), and reduce or eliminate any NEW image content from my promotions (dont use video anyway). I can pump out 1000's of new ads using old content anyway ad-infinitum if need be.

You dont seem to understand , asking for secondary producers have full model records doesnt violate anyone's rights. Please understand this, that argument wont work. I have a friend who shoots for many many adult mags, when he sells the pics they get full model releases. That is common practice in the print world . The problem with our world is it has to grow up. No more hidding behind nicknames and paypal accounts. Sponsors wil lhave to have full info on a affiliate , full name , id showing this affiliate is of age , a social security number or tax id number, a real address not a po box and a phone number that works. A interview process of some type, thats the way the business world works.Thats why everyone doesnt want to give that info out , they dont know who the fuck their affiliates are. lol

That's like saying McDonald's needs to have contact info, on every employee that works for Coca Cola Because they sell coke at Micky D's. It violates every sense of the word privacy for the model. It's like Roc hard said there is no way in hell any company is going to hand over their models address and phone number.

If that's what they are trying to do, it will hold up in a court of law about as well as John Asscraft at a boy scout camp.

There is no its not fair clause in the law. Did you didnt read what I wrote it happens now in print all the time. One of Rocs big affiliates gets arrested and all the others go bye bye. Everyone talks strong til the first gets clipped.Then the crying will start. Most of them rolled on the fight with Acacia you think they are going to fight the federal government in court thats funny . lol

It goes to court the court will say if you dont filter the people you do business with carefully enough its not the court problem. These arent surfers these are afiliates that these companies go into a agreement with to be in business together.

The purpose of the upcoming regulation is very simple and obvious:
Their goal is to get the adult industry out of US. By "criminalize" part of, and actors (prim and secondary producers), in the industry, they force administration that many can't handle or afford.

I'm european affiliate, but know it will affect us all. As non-us affiliate, what will happen? We will probably avoid US adult programs, since the requirements to affiliates about all this documentation shit, and the work and time spent on it, will not be worth it...compared to income. No matter how selective the paysites are, about their affiliates, they may loose many good ones = less money. And of course 1st priority is to protect the models privacy, which means less promotion content will be offered.

CC companies and US billing processor companies might bend over for the new regulations, forced to be more strict about their partners. This may shut down many programs, especially smaller ones who can't manage their own processor system. Will we also see lots of payout holdbacks in the end of this year, as a result?

The US server hosts, have to become more strict, and they may loose customers to oversea hosters. Freehosts may be 100 % out of business, and TGPs will be filled with the same "safe" hosted galleries from some major big paysites. And who wanna trade traffic with a site that is identical?

And the worst part of all;
The same people they now will target, are mostly the same people who "fight" CP, by bringing legal content to surfers. By "criminalize" those webmasters, they open a new market, in "illegal" countries.
It's the same story again and again...let's dump the trash elsewhere. In the name of God, let's seduce the people and gain some votes :321GFY

I have posted this a 1000s times it seems, but everybody seems to ignore it. 2257 applies to only actual sexually explicit images. The definition of sexually explicit is spelled out in 2256:
Then you have to hop back to 2257 which says only actual and to leave off part E. Granted there is a little wiggle room. For example if you have a shot of a gal with her legs open and her hand is on her cooch is she masturbating or covering up? That would be a jury question. The simple solution is to be very careful and don?t use material where the hand is near the cooch. For programs like Lightspeed the easy solution is to not provide affiliates with sexually explicit content. IMO 90% of their content isn?t sexually explicit so it is just a matter of keeping that other 10% away form affiliates.

And Yes, I agree this is hideous. IMO the industry shouldn?t be so passive. They should have a lawsuit ready the day this thing becomes effective and ask for an immediate injunction to keep this from being enforced until the legal issues surrounding this can be sorted out. But alas the industry will sit on its ass and wait for people to be arrested.

Im curious....i have not seen anything in these regs that says anything about having to supply The address and any other personal info except the models name and date of birth and shoot date. (which is what we do now).

Am i missing this somewhere?

I think these easiest Constitutional grounds to get this overturned on is that rather than treating the Internet like just another medium -- they are applying rules that don't apply
to magazines.

i.e. the "mere distribution" clauses that say your mailman or 7-11 or porn store don't need to have full model releases on file for magazines they bring you, because they are only selling and delivering... They did not take the pictures and didn't print the magazine.

Until then, best we can hope for is to keep our records in
excruciating detail... and maybe SHG will expand to everyone hot-linking to sponsor-hosted banners, thumbnails, etc. Just to be safe. This will reduce affiliates to being just traffic sources and less in any kind of editing/cropping/layout/design aspect, which is is a facet behind being called a "producer" instead of "mere distribution".

I just hope it doesn't get twisted retroactive and make any content I already license become worthless because the provider won't give me full releases.
(Sounds like something you go to a massage parlor for... :winkwink: )