skillfull

even with all the scandals ?

personnaly im going with the Bloc Quebecois, they arent that good
but all others sucks more anyway

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Doctor Dre

NPD isnt bad ... they got good fresh ideas and are still liberals .

I aiint gonna vote for conservative for 100 % sure

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inside every canadian is an american redneck trying to get out

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skillfull

not in Quebec, maybe in Alberta :P

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Jdoughs

Scandals?? that were started by the other parties?

So which is better.

I'll be voting and it sure as fuck wont be the BQ or the Conservatives

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skillfull

if i would be from Quebec, i would vote NPD, liberals are highly corrupted and conservative are fucked up religious people

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Doctor Dre

Ugh ? They fucked up millions ...

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fuzebox

Conservative.

Doctor Dre

I still think they would probably be the best governement .. I just dont wanna show them my support at all .

They need to wake up and see they can loose the spot and correct themselves.

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Jdoughs

They all fuck up millions, its there job.

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skillfull

more like billions

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skillfull

btw wouldn't not would, im kind of tired :P

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FlyingIguana

who else can you vote for?

ndp is just ass. raise taxes and hope they have enough money to cover spending increases. makes a ton of sense to me....

liberals or pc's. lets see, liberals control spending, who knows what pc's will do.

have to vote liberal. all governments suck, but the liberals are doing a decent job at knocking down our debt and not really getting in the way of business.

BillyHoe

bloc

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xxxdesign-net

the bloc? Thats a nice wasted vote.. unless you are a separatist.. you would be fucking dumb to vote for them...

As for Liberals being corrupted.. please.. 1st ... nothing has been proven as far as the heads of the government being involved.. 2nd... They are extremely solid economically .. thats what count in the end..

FlyingIguana

damn someone with his head on right

other parties platforms just don't make sense. sure liberals may have wasted a ton of cash, but at the end of the day they're paying down the debt brought on by past governments.

tedwinters

Hah, talking about corruption and then voting bloc??
Have you seen how much money they've wasted, and how much money they're planning to waste???
they're damn idiots...

I agree that there isn't much choice out there right now..
NDP aren't great (big waste of tax dollars..), Conservatives have morally strong stances... too moral!!
Bloc.. well.... I already went over that ;) BIG waste of money.. Did you know that the province of Quebec currently has the HIGHEST amount of reparation payments ($4 billion per year) (in otherwords, the government of Canada pays them $4b)...
Yet, still incurs the largest debt per year?
And the fucking language laws are a joke... definately hurting the Quebec economy... a buddy of mine just got fined because his QC hosted website, targetting American customers, wasn't defaulting to the French language, and didn't have a full French translation...

I'm going to have to vote liberal, just cause they're the best of the worst...

Hamlet

I'm not so much voting liberal as voting against conservative... I considered some of the other parties - but at this point the race between the liberals and conservatives is actually getting pretty close. So a vote for the liberal party is a vote against the conservative party in my view.

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skillfull

how can the bloc can waste your money if they never have been elected (and will never be) and yes im separatist
an do youu know that dont advance fact you cant prove
we do not receive 4 billions more than we suppose to, in fact, we loose money everyday being with Canada. Fining people for website is stupid, and i dont believe its happened, if its happened, lets say that some functionnaries is stupid, and there is nothing you can do against stupidity except fire that stupid guy/girl

anywya, the best solution imho is a minority liberal governement

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Pete

PC

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notjoe

You dont consider the hundreds of millions spent on ad companies who did little or no work a scandal?

CDSmith

I stopped reading your drivel right there. As far as I'm concerned that statement removes any credibility you may have had.

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CDSmith

Here is an email I received yesterday. I'm not saying I agree with it either in whole or in part, but it is reflective of several Canadians.... Lengthy but with some interesting points.

My own vote is still on the fence.

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skillfull

in what the fact of me being separatist change anything to the fact that all federal political party sucks ?
i do not hate canadians or anything, its just not my country...
fact is Quebec people are differents, whatever they are with french origin, english or whatever ethnies they have
we just dont share point of view about a couple of subject with the rest of Canada
what the fuck Canada is doing in a monarchy ? why we still have a Senate which is totally useless ?
Canada isnt a country, sorry but like more 5 little country with an economical arrangement

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CDSmith

I'm not going to debate your bullshit separatism shit buddy. There are 6 million people in Quebec, less than half of them think the way you do so shut the hell up, you don't speak for all of Quebec. I have relatives there that have been there for generations too, and they disagree with you, period.

If you don't like being part of Canada fuck off

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bad_girl

Have you been outside of Quebec? A lot of people seem to think we are a country aside from Quebecers.

Everytime I go to Quebec, Montreal specifically, there is always attitude. Sometimes I think you guys should form a country with the Newfies


In any case, I will be voting for the Green Party, I dont know what they stand for but its better than liberal scandal, consvervative ignorance and NDP overspending.

BG

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evildick

Definately Conservative. My family is in the health care business and the Liberals are fucking things up royally in Ontario.

They are talking about all the new money they are putting into health care to hire 2000 nurses, but at the same time, behind the scenes, they are cutting funding that will result in the loss of approximately 700 dietary, housekeeping and maintenance staff in health care facilities. We are not allowed to talk about it in the media as a condition that they will work on rectifying this. We are not holding our breath. They have been given 60 days, and if they don't fix this, expect a shitstorm to hit the media in the next month or so regarding nursing homes that shows them to be the liars everyone suspects them to be.

Only thing I don't like about the Conservatives is their stance on abortion.

bad_girl

YA but its not like they are going to overturn abortion legislation.

BG

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doober

get your head out of your ass

InsaneMidget

Bush

doober

Anyways as most have figured out its all pretty much a waste. Like someone was saying up top, no choice but to vote liberal as they are the best of the worst....if not a I will vote Rhino.

I almost feel like the americans with bush and kerry with this bullshit

Martin

Yes I will be.

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AndrewKanuck

Don't throw your votes away, vote Harper in.

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Martin

Yeah no thanks..

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FlyingIguana

you'd lose more not being canadian.

FlyingIguana

a minority liberal government will work like this

other parties will block what they want to do. if they see any chance of getting them out at anytime, an election will be called. could happen in a year or two.

or if they make it the full term the other parties will talk about all the broken promises, but won't talk about how they fucked all of them just to make the liberals look bad.

in other words, nothing will get done

tedwinters

Yeah, you DO receive $4b - google search or look under 'reparation payments' on stats-canada... It shows the amount of tax dollars each province receives back from the Canadian government in order to 'equalize' incomes...
Only 3 provinces don't receive reparation payments...
http://www.fin.gc.ca/transfers/transfers_eq_e.html
That'll help a bit..


As for the language laws and website:
http://aix1.uottawa.ca/~geist/globejune899.html
http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?...4&area= news\

two websites there that got fined... My buddies didn't make the news, but if you find the webpage that lists all the fines given out, you'll find it...

So...

Anything else you accused me of making up??

As for the 'loosing money being in Canada', what do you think would happen if you lost the $4b/year by leaving Canada??? Quebec already has the highest debt level per capita... something like $12,000 per person!

Quebec is full of stupid laws (like the one saying that no commercial store can have more than 4 employees working after 9pm on weekdays, and 5pm on weekends...) and needs a political party that will REDUCE these laws... not strengthen them...

70% of Quebec's trade is with the US... want to know how many people speak french there?? It's time to mandate English learning in Quebec highschools..

Paul Waters

Have to kisk the liberals out. They have been in too long.

That mens the Conservatives, though I have to hold my nose over it.

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CDSmith

What NDP overspending? They've never been in power federally in all my 41 years of life, when have they had the chance to spend anything?


I'm not saying the NDP are the way to go here, but there is one school of thought out there that says it is funny that Canadians vote in the liberals, then when they screw up they vote in the PC's..... then when they screw up they vote back in the liberals.... back and forth, back and forth..... never giving the other parties a chance. I don't think I'll be voting NDP this time myself, but back in the day Ed Broadbent was a pretty damn solid candidate yet was never given the gold key even once. Today might look vastly different had they been given a chance.

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FlyingIguana

the ndp will waste money. they want to increase spending, increase taxes to corporations(fail to see that businesses create jobs) and hope that they bring in enough money to offset increased spending. they're making assumptions that they'll bring in enough.

pretty dangerous stuff for a government to do, especially when the economy is doing ok.

it would be a long day in hell before i vote ndp. business drives the economy, not government.

KCat

I like Paul Martin, but have to vote conservative. Liberals spend way too much of my money. Being self-employed already means I need to put away far more money than the average person who qualifies for pension benefits etc., so I'm voting with my wallet.

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EviLGuY

I used to be a Liberal.. but after all the shit the past few years.. fuck em.

I am not sure who I will vote for right now.. probably conservatives.

CDSmith

I agree that business drives not only the government but the entire economy, and of course many on the more socialistic side fail or refuse to see that. I guess one of my points is that there needs to be a better choice than just "the big two" parties, because going with either one means giving up a lot in certain areas and on certain issues.


At the moment I'm leaning towards the conservatives. Time will tell. I'm smack in the middle of a staunch liberal riding though, and the largest French community west of Quebec.

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skillfull

http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/pros_...uebecFULL.html

EIGHT ARGUMENTS FOR SOVEREIGNTY

1. The identity argument

Quebeckers are a people. Not all peoples need their own sovereign state, indeed, Quebeckers have for a long-time tried to operate within the Canadian federal framework. But Canada refuses to grant to Quebec its status as a founding people and the tools it needs to develop fully. It is time to come to terms with Canada's inherent incapacity to think of itself as a multinational state. It is time to cease dreaming that a constitutional negotiation is still possible. It is time for the citizens of Quebec to create a state that reflects their reality. This state, which seeks to encompass all those wishing to be its citizens, will be based on territory and a common language, it will recognize as constituents its First Nations and anglophone minority, and will continue to offer to immigrants citizenship in a community which fully respects their contribution to it.

2. The linguistic argument

Because a charter of rights inspired by individualist principles is entrenched in it, the Canadian constitution allows the laws of the government of Quebec to be contested before the courts. Quebec's linguistic laws have been constrained by this state of affairs. Sovereignty will place in a representative government responsibility for the promotion and protection of French. We would be in a position to adopt those laws we judge necessary, all the while respecting the rights of individuals and of the francophone and anglophone communities. The survival of French in Quebec is now assured; once we have the means of managing all aspects of the linguistic issue, we will be able to enhance the capacity of all the citizens of Quebec to live together.

3. The cultural argument

Even if small in number, Quebeckers include creative people who have made their mark on the world. But it takes an appropriate climate for people to continue to dedicate their life to culture. Governments, as well as businesses, must stop regarding financially supporting culture as an act of charity. Moreover, one must never forget that culture transcends the economy: it provides vital symbolic anchors; it nourishes the imagination of a community. In order to do so, it needs the freedom provided by its own assured space. One way such space can be provided is by a community self-confident enough to take pride in the creative people who disturb its complacency.

4. The solidarity argument

By giving themselves a country, Quebeckers will be laying down the foundations of a genuine solidarity which will encourage understanding among citizens even when their interests diverge. Solidarity creates a context in which individuals can see beyond their individual interests so that they are willing to do their part. This national solidarity is not just an idealistic slogan: it has real economic and social repercussions. It is generally agreed that the most serious economic and social problems facing Quebec are unemployment, poverty among women, school drop-outs, youth employment, the maintenance of social programs, the deficit and the debt. The solutions to these problems require that the various social actors work together, and that every affected individual, enterprise, and organization accept to play their part. In this sense, the decision to become sovereign constitutes in and of itself a societal project, concretely reflecting the solidarity of the citizens, their desire to work to establish a more just society.

5. The political legitimacy argument

It is only a fully legitimate government that has the margin of maneuverability necessary to deal with difficult social and economic problems such as deficits, debts and recessions. If the federal government have been founded on real solidarity rather than on the abstract concept of a Canadian nation, it would have had sufficient legitimacy to set in motion starting in the 1970s the minimal budgetary restrictions on social programs. Instead, and because it lacked the required legitimacy, it fell into electoralism, acceding, on occasion, to unrealistic expectations of the electorate, and giving in to demands of various pressure groups, as well as the lobbies of business and foreign investors. Quebec sovereignty will confer much greater political legitimacy: political power in Quebec will be the expression of a community which has taken on a common project.



6. The decentralization argument

In recent years, decentralization has become synonymous with organizational efficiency. In the context of a sovereign Quebec, decentralization will strengthen the powers of regional units closely linked to economic activity. In the short-run, decentralization of governmental institutions will result in savings from the elimination of duplication. In the longer term, it will increase efficiency because it will bring decision points closer to markets. This decentralization must nevertheless proceed with prudence and fairness: it must not make government power more irresponsible or arbitrary; it must instead aim to place power in the hands of the citizens affected by the decisions.

7. The argument of equality between the national communities

The Canadian government has not adequately acted to assure that economic development is distributed equitably between the main national communities. As a result of federal government policies over more than 30 years (national energy policy, auto pact, centralization of R and D support, absence of protection for pharmaceutical patents, and -- obviously -- high interest rates) the Toronto region has become the nerve centre of the Canadian economy. In contrast, a multinational central state would take into account the principle of equality between the peoples which constitute it. It is time to take control of the political and economic levers held but not appropriately exercised by the federal government.

8. The constitutional argument

Following the illegitimate repatriation of the constitution in 1982, Quebec found itself excluded from the Canadian family. By this constitutional coup de force, Canada restricted Quebec's power to act on language (the Canada clause) and imposed a charter of rights based essentially on individual rights and which confided considerable powers to judges nominated by the federal state. It imposed this without a referendum, and against the expressed wishes of Quebec and its national assembly. In doing so, Canada violated the pact on which the federation was originally founded. Since that time, all negotiations designed to reintegrate Quebec into the constitutional fold have failed, thus demonstrating the irreconcilability of the aspirations of Quebec and Canada. Canada now sees the Quebec people as a cultural minority among others, even though Quebec is, and considers itself to be, one of the country's founding peoples. There is no other way to resolve the dispute on this fundamental question than for Quebec to become sovereign and adopt a constitution that reflects its true nature .

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TweetyBird

lol....

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bad_girl

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CDSmith
[B]What NDP overspending? They've never been in power federally in all my 41 years of life, when have they had the chance to spend anything?


I don't want to even give them the chance.

BG

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tedwinters

Oh man.. I don't even want to start on the follies of separatism....
I DID see an interesting sign on the Bonaventure - from the Quebec Teacher's Union...
Basically, it said 'stop immigration.. immigration destroys quebec culture, and wastes money...'
hahahahahah

Eitherway, it's amazing how racist Quebec is...
Indians, Asians = lower life forms...

Eitherway, separatism is bad... as has been seen twice now, more than half the province does NOT want to separate... and it would be a HUGE waste of money....
Quebec government is already corrupt..
Look at the huge tax rates, and then look at the quality of medicare, and the quality of roads (regulated by the province...)

As soon as you hit the US boarder, roads become smooth..
As soon as you hit the Ontario boarder, roads become smooth...
Throughout Quebec, you can hide children in pot holes!!!

I think I'll vote for whoever is willing to spend more on infrastructure and not waste it spending resources to separate


And provincially, NDP threw BC into huge debt in the early and late 90's...

CDSmith

Bravo for the great post. Die-hard separatists are so redundant, annoying, insideous and, well, basically they lost (twice) in two referendums yet they STILL will not shut the fuck up about separating. Basically I say the remaining separatists can get on a barge and paddle to a deserted island and start up their own country there. They are living in Canada on Canadian soil, either deal with that and be happy or fuck off out of here.

Trouble is, no other country on Earth would want them, including France.

But in this discussion we're talking federally. You can't compare provincial NDP parties to federal parties. Here in Manitoba we now have an NDP government and they are actually doing quite well in fixing up all the shit that the Filmon regime (PC) pulling over the previous 8 years or more. I was so happy to see them get ousted and booted out of office it wasn't even funny, and the Liberals of Manitoba were almost wiped off the map a few elections back, they aren't in a position to form government here yet. The NDP aren't spending like maniacs here as far as I can tell, but they do seem to be keeping the majority of Manitobans happy.

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maxdaname

I waited all my life to vote for Chretien and he left! And I really hate Paul Martin!!! So Fuck The Liberals! There's no way in hell I'm going to vote for The Parti Quebecois for a Federal Elections. I don't know/trust the other parties. So my vote goes to the....