The advantage of a single model is that she is unique. That gives her a potential edge which only sites that take the trouble to develop a distinct theme and style can otherwise enjoy.

Words like "exclusive", "good" and "quality" appear a lot in this thread, but I believe they are largely irrelevant. Content need not conform to any of the common meanings of these words.

For content to play an active role in boosting sales, it must make people sit up and take notice. There isn't one way to do this: the model, the subject and the way that the image has been composed are just some of the possibilities. A picture (or video clip) isn't automatically worth a thousand words, but it can be.

It's easier to produce content that will retain members, but it still needs to rise above the generic and deliver what the surfers were led to expect. Porn is fantasy: develop the fantasy to sell and sustain it to keep the customers coming back for more.

If I were a content producer I would try to develop a distinct style whether via models, techniques, sets or whatever. I would try to imagine sites that could successfully be themed around my work and ensure what I did was "right" for those sites. Of course a lot of webmasters wouldn't touch my material, but that really doesn't matter if it appeals strongly to others and helps them to earn money.

Not from where I'm sitting. Sales are going up all the time.

What will happen is a lot of people who can't cut it will disappear, leaving guys like you and me in the driving seat.

Simple answer is it sells less. We put our top girls/sets up at $40 which is an extra $5. We tried $50 and made less money than at $40.

Too many buy purely on price.

A lot of content providers are in trouble and any sale is a bonus.

We have set packages at set prices according to the number of sets you buy. Never waver from them, those discounts are generous enough.

I agree Charly and that's the way it should be. Set Prices.


As for people not buying the more expensive sets? That's short term thinking. They aren't willing to invest money into their business. Still the old quick buck mentality. Pay the cheapest and give the members shit.

The irony of it all is, buying cheaper sets may increase your profit margin but won't increase your profits :1orglaugh Something the quick-buck guys won't ever understand.

Will do now. Just reading this excellent thread, thank you Shap. But off to bed soon so no rush.

A lot of them have not been in business long enough to realise that.

But this business is a mix and a lot of paysites should be the same, some exclusive top of the line stuff, semi exclusive middle othe market content and filler that is not totally gross. And all conforming to the spirit/style/niche of the site.

What some paysite owners do not realise is, you have to support your supply lines. The future for them will be very bleak if they drive so many content providers out of business it reverts back to the situation 4-5 years ago, with a lot fewer places to buy from.

You got it Charly. Imagine going back to using Zmaster AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :eyecrazy

Uhhh ... that's already been happening for years but the weak can be pretty resilient when they are willing to work for beer money.

word up to that! :)

i loved when we were in vagas your cell rings who is it??
a member who cant sign in..

this man jumps on the computer sets dude up and just like that bang happy customer..

you cant beat that support!


:thumbsup

paul i wasn't referring to you, you are a teen specialist and it's a much larger niche than 'hot babe glamour'. there are enough strong teen sites to keep you going strong. I can think of maybe 5 paysites in the same niche as Twistys and GMGB.

If you used zmaster from december 1998 to 2001 (before Lee sold it), you were using the database driven, catalog website that i built. :Graucho

During that time, alot of people bought content from zmaster.



Fight the Lurkers!

Yep, Kevin is incredible with his members, his affiliates, and pretty much anyone else he deals with.

Yep and that's why for the most part they either have to buy exclusive or shoot their own. It's a good thing I know MP provides a lot of affiliate content, because that's one of the bottlenecks when it comes to promoting those niches.. a lack of content to promote it with. I've never promoted Twistys but I'm assuming they have the same kind of deal going as would mac and bumble, etc.

It used to be "Content is King" ....I had that back on my content site in 1997. Someone recently said to me:
"Content is King but TRAFFIC is GOD" LOL.

Yeah ....prominant issue:

* SATURATION *
There is a REDICULOUSLY large amount of FREE PORN on the net....whether it's from TGP's, THEFT, CHEAP CONTENT, FILE SHARING (e.g. Kazaa etc) ....etc.

My experience a few years ago...when I was producing exclusive and non-exclusive for clients was they could get it cheaper somewhere else all the time. It's even MORE SO nowadays.....there is ABSOLUTELY NO SHORTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO CAN PICK UP CHEAP DIGITAL EQUIPMENT AND SHOOT NAKED CHICKS OUTTA THEIR HOUSE AND EMAIL A WEBSITE TO SELL IT. Everybody and their Mother is a "content provider"
...and its hard for Content Providers to find clients who will be LOYAL to threir product when there is the EXACT SAME PRODUCT being offered by someone else for less money.

That's why the industry keeps breaking down into smaller and more specific NICHES....with a "twist". Marketers have to REPACKAGE it....it's still PORN ....but its gotta have SOMETHING to differentiate it from the rest and you have to have the means to sell it.


Good thread!


- Matt

all true.

but it's a big world, and many beautiful women in 3rd world locations.

beauty that cost $800-1000 in los angeles can be found for $25-50 usd just by getting on an airplane.

so true.

haha, yes.

pretty resilient indeed.

just look at all the POV shooters who could never get laid in high school.

so they go buy a digicam for a few hundred bucks and now get blowjobs for free.

becoming a content "producer" just helps these guys get laid, guys that could never get laid in the real world without paying the girl some cash.

guys so lame with the dialogue you end us just feeling sorry for the girl, disgusted even.

but this is the web. maybe there's a niche for it.

fatuglyguycrackwhore.com

might be avail. someone content "producer" should snap it up.

http://www.cadetstuff.org/images/baghdad_bob.jpg

"The content business is not in trouble...."

no - anonymous foreign models don't work as well in the glamour niche - i look at the free sites in that babe niche like Bomis - names are a big thing. the surfers know the names of these girls and expect to see them in Twistys and GMGB. The foreign girls become stars when they come over to the United States for some shoots. Jana Cova is just a pretty girl you'd find on some European content site UNTIL she goes to Los Angeles and shoots for Stehen Hicks and Penthouse. Then she becomes JANA COVA.

No different than pop stars and movie stars, you ain't a star until you have made it in the USA.

exquisite.

SoBeGirl has set prices for all the sets. The more you buy the more value you get for your money.. Check it out...

http://www.*************/conten_index.htm












:321GFY

Very good thread :thumbsup

I agree with what has been stated.

Having been a content producer for the adult industry since 1996 we have probably produced and acquired on of the largest catalogs of content on the Internet.

Over the past year we have placed our emphases into expanding our studios here in Las Vegas and acquiring content producers looking to sell out.

We have bought out 5 companies in the past year including FetishBrokers.com, CDBabes.com and ParadiseWebs.com. This has given content sales sites in three specific niches; Fetish ? FetishBrokers.com, Amateurs ? CDBabes.com, Pro-Am Content with ParadiseWebs.com. We believe it has become time to consolidate content and work on niche content sales site. Our current inventory is just over 1 million images and 900 hours of video.

Further we are expanding our studio from 3,600 sq/ft to 7,200 sq/ft with the addition of a new video stage ? 28?x36x22? Cyc cove, Barn set, Auto Repair shop, new dungeon, Jail Cell and Cheerleader work out room. This takes our Permanente sets to 14.

Currently our staff consists of 2 full time photographer / videographer, 3 full time image retouchers, 3 full time video editors and IS department.

Launching in April of 2004 will be our affiliates program ? SlaughterCash.com with a portfolio of 12 new sites. These sites will feature our own content as well as the content we have purchased over the past few years.

If you?re in need of site specific content feel free to contact me at [email protected]

David Slaughter
http://www.fetishbrokers.com

I think this is combination of a few things.......

- Anyone with a digital camera can shoot content and attempt to sell it. And everyone thinks they are a photographer.
- There is too much content being produced, and too much of it is being given away for free. Affiliates no longer need to purchase content because the websites gladly give it to them; They have to because it's just bad business to ask an affiliate to purchase content to use for promotion when those pictures aren't in the site they are promoting.
- Content from other countries where it's cheap to shoot is attempting to flood the content market.

Here's an example of two content companies I've dealth with through out the years....

One was company started by someone with extra money, who really just wanted to shoot content (read - hang out with models). They did okay for a while, but in the end their content was really crap and no one was buying it. They attempted they massive content deal, and that floated them for a while and then they folded. Gone.

A friend of mine decided to get into the business two years ago. He started slow, found a niche that had a handful of dedicated repeat buyers who would purchase anything they bought because they couldn't find it any place else. I visited my friend over the holidays - He's now got two full time photographers.

The content industry has been flooded with crap that no one wants. Just like the paysites, those who are good will keep their heads about water and those who fail and crash and burn like the rest. Just like all the new websites out there.

Mutt & Paul - Keep up the good work. Both of you will keep your heads above water.

In my opinion, the problem with content producers is inflexibility and 2 dimensional thinking.

Everyone seems to think they have something so unique, so perfect that it's worth a ridiculous amount. The reality of the adult world is something quite different.

The video world knew this all through the 80's and 90's. The "web people" will "get it" after a few of them flame out.

There are more ways now to sell, and re-sell your content than ever before. You need to get parallel thinking. I would mention one, but it would sound like a sales message, and that's not why I'm posting here. I genuinely believe the message. So I'll leave it at the statement.

Not the situation here. The big porn houses who come here to shoot are paying girls from $500 to $1,000 a scene. They want to squeeze out the guys who will shoot girls for $25.

AMA and Gregg Photo were here recently and paying $400 for a few hours work.

No it's not, but some of the people inside it are. When they have gone watch the price of content rise.

This is an excellent tread Shap - way to go my friend :thumbsup

No I don't agree. Few providers think that. some of us think we are better than some of the producers, me included. But how can you say we overprice content when a set like this is $5?

http://www.paulmarkham.com/sets/1210/thumb_01.jpg

Or a set like this $35.

http://www.paulmarkham.com/sets/1611/thumb_01.jpg

I think the overall message has come that the slashing of content prices AND the willingness of people to buy on price has hurt the whole business.

There are many people, both webmasters and paysite owners, who can pay $50 a set or more. Yet they have forced the price down by buying from cut price merchants. Yes a lot of providers have appeared over the last two years, but it needs a buyer to purchase from them to survive. So the price has been forced down, the sales spread and the end result is a lowering of the return on the set. So low it no longer becomes profitable to produce.

So you have more buyers, again paysites and TGPs, more producers and a lower quality. Which just leads to a lowering of standards and more people able to open sites and compete. As I said the big producers shooting here pushed the prices UP, to keep out the competition. On the Internet the big buyers pushed the prices DOWN, allowing the little guy in to steal their clients.

Soon I will be releasing limited distibution sets, 10 licenses will be sold on some sets for $70. Lets see if paysites are willing to pay $70 for a set like this knowing it will not be everywhere.

http://www.paulmarkham.com/sets/1599/thumb_01.jpg

But I'm sure some will come back and tell me they can buy a set EXCLUSIVE for $70 and there is the problem.
IMHO

150 IMPORTANT Topic:s :glugglug

i will say this again.


ultimately, content pricing is not determined by webmasters and content producers.

it is determined by surfers, i.e. conversions.


content that converts will command a good sales price.

content that does not convert will be on the blowout sale.

it doesn't matter what "we" think, or if we think our stuff is great.

it only matters what the surfer thinks.

because that's where the money comes from.

interestingly, the cost of content and how it converts is not necessarily a linear relationship.

how beautiful the girl is and how it converts it not necessarily a linear relationship.

you can tell what converts by testing, by using the tools of scripts which rotate content based on clicks, and if you pay attention you can find out with very good certainty which images are valuable and which are not. this is fluid, and what is popular varies over time, it is really stable for a very short time, maybe 60 days, then new stuff rotates to the top. the trick is to keep your hand on the pulse of the surfer, whose attention wavers constantly.

the results may surprise you.

i don't doubt this is true in europe.

but i'm not talking of europe.

some of the most physically beautiful women i have ever shot have cost less than $50 dollars to shoot. women that if they were dressed right and walked down santa monica blvd they would turn heads guaran-fuckin'-teed.

and these women are on my most popular paysites, the ones i make the most coin with.

i'm just saying that model cost does not necessarily equate to conversions.

i've shot in LA many times, too many prima donnas and suitcase pimps for me. i can make more $ hopping on a plane and hiring an interpreter.

Sorry i can not say ive seen much of this.
The content biz have been tough for a long time, but i dont think its any tougher right now then 6-9 months ago.
In fact we have a new product hitting the streets that will be launched with 20-25.000 minutes of video so get in touch if video is your business :)

Exactly.

Buy content becasue it converts and no other reason and you will earn enough to buy again.

this is the most interesting/informative thread i have read on wm board, haven't been here for long , but this is what i thought a "forum" was all about ?

Anyway we are a new content provider of a couple of "old" magazine photographers who have sold to nearly every men's magazine out there, existing or closed down.
In the last couple of months since we got into this what really surprises me the most is the price of the pictures, all i get is people asking for what discount am i going to give them , wasting time talking about a discount that is never enough.
Is a bit strange really when i can sell one picture for a calendar for $500 and have trouble trying to sell the same picture with 80 others from the same set for $50 to web masters ?
I suppose it all depends who your contacts are.

JBdeB
I have experience in both magazines and Internet content and though it is very similar there are major differences.

Firstly a magazine set needs to be far better than anything required on the Net. We can shoot around two magazine sets a day and five sets+viddeos a day for the Net. The money may be smaller but the production greater.

The other factor is the magazine market has a limit, for us, of 120 sets a year. The Internet could take 20 sets a week without dropping sales.

This market is fast changing. David Slaughter and Jon Silverstein are not buying up or doing "Blow outs" with companies making a lot of money. They are picking up companies and basically asset stripping them.

latinasojourn pointed it out very clearly, no matter what the webmaster likes, the price or the "Cool Dude" who sells the pictures, it's down to the surfer to give the final approval. If he does not click on the link, buy a membership or renew the content buyer does not have the money to rebuy, so they both suffer.

You and I have been providing porn for way to long to suffer that fate. The porn consumer has been buying our product for decades and as long as we keep up with the styles we will last. Then the shoe will be on the other foot, with a reduced supply the customers will have to pay more. Yes there will always be the newbie provider, but unless he shoots porn the surfer will buy he will not last.

And do not let them tell you the Net does not want our "Glossy Magazine" styles. Some of them telling me that 2 years ago are gone.

Keep at it and you will see the rewards, you just have to get your message over to people.

ps
I love your work.

good thread!

Charly, for someone who is making as much money as he claims you sure do post and spam your shit a lot. Maybe that is why you are still in business.

This content biz is so dymanic. It changes so fast. I remember when all the blow outs started I jumped in and made bank. But the reason I made bank and why I am still here still making money is becuase I prepared for it.

When I saw that prices for exclusives were dropping I decided not to get fucked by all the programs out there who want complicated videos but were not willing to pay a decent number for them. I decided to be a distributor first and then a producer second. I figured that if I had 10,000 small customers my business would be more stable than if I had 10 exclusive customers who would squeeze me for everything they could and never be happy.

Read this article I wrote at the time when this revelation dawned on me. As a matter of fact. I wrote this on the plane ride back from AMA Joe's house. I went up there to drop off a 2000 (TWO THOUSAND) dollar check for content he was selling SoBeGirl and see what kind of hotties he had up there. Here also are links to the videos I shot while there. The TWO grand was just the tip of the iceberf of more than 12 grand I paid him for content to be used on ************* This is the same content he now says he did not sell SoBeGirl.

The guy is a fucking liar. He makes deals, takes money and then backtracks. In business, you cannt make a deal and then go back. In business when you make what you thought was a bad deal you have to learn from it, hope you survive it and move on stronger and better learning by your experience.

http://www.*************/articles/bullish.htm

Anyone who cant get click troughs from their galleries or conversions with their sites from these sets should not be in the adult internet biz in the first place.

http://www.*************/Models/iraq/200/200.mpg
http://www.*************/Models/iraq/198/198.mpg
http://www.*************/Models/iraq/197/197.mpg
http://www.*************/Models/iraq/199/199.mpg

And all these people making predictions.. well here is mine. Hang on for some tough times ahead. See TGPs begging for video gallery submissions becuase singups are not paying for the bandwidth free galleries produce.

Hosted galleries are nice but they will never EVER offer the kind of flexibility and creative freedom that buying some content from ************* will give you. Your gallery design will make the difference between a 3 percent click thorugh or a 13 percent click through.

And nobody offers a huge easy to pick from selection with instant FTP download and the opp to pay with credit card like SoBeGirl does.