heh.

Im 27, You were shooting porn when I was a kid.

You NEED to retire and let the next gen like me take over!!!

:thumbsup

Yes, with enough creativity and good marketing even shitty content can make lots of money.

Its just a product. If you know how to market it to the right people the right way it will sell. Just like anything else.

The look of the models make or break the content. That's the key.

You guys really make me laugh. I love it when some dick head comes here and starts to rip on SoBeGirl...

Always crying SoBeGirl killed the business, SoBeGirl content is stolen,, SoBeGirl content does not convert blah blah blah....

It is the same old story where my competition or friends of my competition want to take me down becuase they do not like competing with me. SoBeGirl has more, better content, delivers it faster, updtates more than anyone. It is fucking killing you guys that I am still here, still making money, still shooting exclusives and my resale biz is still doing great even in this poor environment.

SoBeGirl conent does not convert?? Oh really, is that right??

I keep updating my site, I keep selling more, I keep adding webmasters who opt in to my email list and some people are so stupid to say that SoBeGirl content does not convert. What a joke.

The fact is that this amazing collection of SoBeGirl content converts as good or better than anything. This has been the case for over 4 years. And when I do a blow out it is the best deal you will ever see.

If SoBeGirl content does not convert for you they you do not know what youa re doing. And converting surfers is not easy and I am learning a lot. I have my pay site at http://www.crazycontent.com and it is all SoBeGirl contetn and I do not need anything else. Trust me that site is converting just fine and I could not be happier.

I am really sort of honored that people actually think I took the market down. One company, one man ME, affected theentire contetn market so bad. What power I must have right :-) LOL

I know that the facts are different. I have a pay site. I build these fucking galleries all the time, I have stats that show me what is going on. If you want to understand why the content biz is the way it is just ask a pay site owner.

Ask how hard it is to get a conversion. See how surfers know how to use trials. See how difficult it is to get them to click through from a gallery to your site and you have to pay for all that bandwidth that the TGP owner uses for free. Ask these guys and you will know why we are in the shit we are today.

But I have diversified a long time ago becuase I saw it coming. I have a plug in priduct at http://www.sobecams.com with over 100 active clients that some have been with me for years. I have the http://www.crazycontent.com pay site now which is teaching me a lot about what does and what does not convert. And most importantly I have been investing in real estate for the last 2 years as I saw this big mess coming and knew I needed some stability.

The difference between me SoBeGirl and these other content provider ass holes is that I see this biz from all the angles. I understand what the content provider goes through, the pay site owner, the TGP guy, graphic designers etc... My stuff is made and delivered to you my customer in such a way that it makes your job eaiser so you can make your money faster.

So when someone says bad things about SoBeGirl think about the facts and don't listen to some zit faced geek who makes less than minimum wage working out of his bed room at his mommies house. Fact is the SoBeGirl collection has been a mainstay for so many website operators for years. As I continue to add content every week it just gets better and better.

Should I decide to sell bulk sets for dirt cheap prices again I will do it again and I dont give a shit about how much my competition crys.

Maybe I will do it again soon, who knows. I am happy with my 20 plus dollars a set I am asking for now and webmasters find it fair as well.

I think a lot of webmasters were hurt with the demise of so many processors last year. Our sales did go down for us but we simply started a pile of pay sites and we make far more with our content this way than selling it at reduced prices.

We shoot more content now than ever before to keep up the demand for our pay site members and this content is not added to the content store. We do however supply a few selected pay sites owners with this content. There is always a way to make money.

Chicken or egg -- does the photographer make the model or the model make the photographer?

Answer: If the market is oversaturated with low-cost crap, it doesn't matter. And that's sad. :2 cents:
<br>

As with all industries things change and only the strongest and most adaptable survive.

Thats why you shoot your own...!!

But does it convert?

Problem is a lot of people here understand computers, Internet, design and programming. But nothing about porn and the porno consumer and that is what they are selling. So when the regular porn surfer hits onto a site, that site competes with every other porn site he's signed up to. If it does not come up to scratch he moves on and the owner does not have the cash to buy more. How simple is that?

Consider how much a content site is selling if they are no longer adding new content. It costs between $40 to $100 to shoot a new solo girl set/video, without costing in the normal costs to run a business on a day to day basis, equipment, premises, hosting, etc. Thats 1 to 3 sales at $35 to reach the break even point, these guys not adding content are trimming down and just relying on their stock to sell to new customers for income. Gives you an idea on how many regular clients they have who need their content to provide to their members.

The photographer makes the model 9 times out of 10. Few girls are good in front of a boring, old, pervy guy.

good thread!

A "really good shooter" usually has the content sold faster then they can shoot it, and paid for in advance.

Our Los Angeles operation nets between $7,000 and $12,000 a month, 80% of which is custom ordered reality content, and not all of it is ordered for the internet.
Our rule of thumb is this:

If no one asks us for it, we don't shoot it.
And if they do ask us for it, we send them an honest cost breakdown, shoot exactly what they ask for, edit and deliver on time to the best of our ability. This builds trust, and repeat customers.

One of the best threads in a very long time gentlemen. :thumbsup

Nice thread Shap, a jewel in the wasteland of "would you hit it?" threads.

In the last 2-3 years we have seen something disturbing happening in the content business for print. High quality photographers are selling sets to the print business but are retaining electronic rights and are putting the content on the web. So they sell a particular set for $2k to a magazine but then put it on their site, in many cases before the magazine is even published. Then the magazine subscribers write to us and tell us they wish to cancel because they are getting it faster and cheaper on the web.

The photographers are trying to monetize the content in a variety of ways but they are strangling off the print business while they chase their web revenues. I'm not privy to the revenues these photogs are getting from the web, but I can tell you that if the magazines are put out of business by this model and the photogs lose the stable revenue of selling to print this content crisis will only increase. The photographers would have to sell an awful lot of $50-100 web sets to make up the single set purchase price that the print buys at.

I agree 100% this is a very informative thread, thank you!

Have that pinned to the wall. Hell, a lot of people laught at MixPhoto's Engrish (me too, I admit) but when he shows a beautiful model occasionally - I love it!

I had a buisiness associate that got out of content 2 years ago for not making money.

Well reading this thread i've seen pretty much the reasons I think the content business is in "trouble".


1. People are still getting exclusive done in the USA - I know we are.

2. People are buying non exclusive from Europe / Russia beacause they can produce it much cheaper.

3. People have a bunch of content that they can re-use.

If you have 300,000 images and 500 hours of video for example, you can create a bunch of tgp pages free sites pay sites etc. and you don't have to run out and grab a new set each time one comes out.

4. DVD's - lots of WM's are grabbing dvd titles that are now available for web license, creating many clips and pics from 1 dvd.


5. Free Content / Hosted galleries. Many sponsors have exclusive content (reality or otherwise) and can give affiliates all the content they need to promote a site.

- Plus if you look around - Deluxepass, now ARS and others are giving wm's the content to build tours, and teaser sites to get sales.

6. Competition. - Lots more providers around these days and prices fall. Supply and demand.

So what did we learn?

There is still a market for content. That market has changed, those who don't keep with trends fall behind.

:2 cents:

Hey Shap;

Almost daily I get hit by the password assholes and I go over and check the site out, cancel the password etc.

While i'm there I also check out some of the other paysites getting hit and find a ton of cheesy, crap paysites with "content blowouts" filler content and not much of that either. Usually no video either.

Seems like there are a shitload of crummy paysites and these are the guys buying.

:2 cents:

It's great to see this thread turned out to be an informative one. That's what I was hoping for :thumbsup

Well said.

I also believe that reality will run its course and that there will be a shift back to the natural shots.

- Brent

I disagree. surfers like to know a site has photos or movies they cant find anywhere else. It sets you apart from the competition and allows you to tailor your shoots to what the members are asking for.

If you provide content to just wank off to then your going to have lousy retention as you have offered no connection with the member. Offer them something they cant find elsewhere, offer them input in the next shoots and you will have a member forever.


Paysites need to get away from the cookie cutter members areas. I was hoping the 1% chargeback ratio would help make paysite owners take content seriously. And in a sense it has as it forced ARS to shut down and reopen with exclusive content.

Dont be fooled in thinking that the reality sites are the only way to do this. Offer fresh content almost daily with a high rate of exclusive content and you will gain a huge following and rentention.

Spend money on content and be rewarded for your efforts.

- Brent Axford

I admire how Joe goes around the world to find the fresh girls and shoot them in his way.

To many photographers have the girls pose in the same way every single shoot and that just makes them boring. Let the girls be free to express themselves and film them being that way and you will have much more erotic sets.

Well said David. I was not aware that this was happening. Kind of scary really. Do you guys as print not have the upperhand in dealing with the photographers, for delaying the web rights until a set time after your magazine is out?

- Brent Axford

it's over for licensed glamour content providers - O V E R.

if only 50% of the content on TGPs and used in hosted galleries and as sponsor content was legal licensed content providers would be rich.

and the hosted gallery thing is beyond stupidity - how could content providers not realize that it was going to kill their own businesses? hosted galleries, sponsor content, that's supposed to bought and paid for as exclusive content. but let's face it, webmasters are a whole lot sleazier and smarter than your average photographer and the providers got ran roughshod over.

DeluxePass? don't get me started. their day is coming.

Sometimes and sometimes not, it depends alot on the model and the relationship we have with the photographer. In many cases there are supply and demand market forces in play that make it so that we will purchase a set, even if the terms are somewhat unfavorable. There just is not enough new all natural big busted models for us to have a strong negotiating position sometimes. In print, the niche market is holding up alot better than the mainstream sex magazines, but one of the drawbacks is that we have a harder time sourcing content.

wait to you see what Greg-gregory.com is about to do :thumbsup

email me if anyone is interested in this type of content above
dantheman at greg-gregory . com

I understand what you are saying Mutt. I think what happened was the webmasters bought the content relatively cheap. Then went out and with their marketing skills found ways to make the most of the content. The content providers saw this and tried to get a piece of their pie. And the same time other content providers saw the need for new content, picked up a camera and charged lower rates than the existing guys. So you've got new competition driving prices lower, and webmasters innovative marketing driving existing providers to increase their price. Everybody is greedy and the top of the line content providers suffer the most. I believe there is definitely a way both can co-exist with the presence of Hosted Galleries.

The current business model does not work. Content providers tried to sell their content to large amounts of webmasters at a low price. Quanity vs Quality. Result is they got screwed. They sold to the low end webmaster who whored the content out on TGPS.

I believe there will always be a demand for Glamour and High End Amateur Photography. A beautiful babe sells. That's the bottomline. I think it's time for the top content providers to come up with a new Business model. Semi Exclusive deals at a higher price. Charly mentioned it costs in the $100 range per set. I know in the US it could cost $300 to $500 per set. So let's for arguements sake say at $300 revenue per set the provider is making a decent profit. If that provider puts the content for sale at $100 per set and only sells 10 licenses (which allow hosted galleries). That's $1000 revenue and more than $700 profit. You can't tell me there aren't 10 sites around willing to pay $100 a pop for quality content. I could round up 10 sites on my own within a day. Right there the webmaster is happy and the provider is happy. Can this business model work?


People say exclusive is the way. Yes i agree. There are a shitload of surfers who enjoy and are willing to pay to look at pictures. The key to a picture based member's area doing well is high amounts of high quality content. Exclusive is great but it gets tough to be 100% exclusive and be able to deliver the quantity expected by the surfer. It's a real toss up. You can either be like 1by day and Stephen Hicks and add 1 ULTRA high quality set a day (which will cost you more than $1000 a set) or go mostly exclusive like ATK and add huge amounts of content weekly. I still believe there is a profitable market for high end photography that isn't 100% exclusive.

Hey Shap Kevin from MediumPimpin/GlamourModelsGoneBad.com

Seems we have both done very good with non-exclusive pictures,
I think we give the surfer a little to much credit knowing what is exclusive and what is not.
If a surfer likes a model he does not give a crap if its exclusive they want it all.
We have been shooting content for the last year or so ourselves for affiliates, so we starting shooting extra which we are now selling, the store will be up later today.

We are not blowing it out and we don't need to sell a crap load, this is good high end glamour style content,
Here are some samples,

Just my 2 cents worth :)

http://www.pimpincontent.com/33.jpg

I'm going to contact you today Kevin....1. to buy :thumbsup and 2 to pitch another idea to you :thumbsup

Cool let me know when you are in town, we can get a drink :)

Mutt, you are correc tin many ways here. But Matrix, and others will continue to provide the best quality product on the market, and yes it will costs just a little more than that crap that is taken by the guy in a hotel room with some cheap ass digital camera. No end user wants to see shitty photography. Shap is right in what he is saying. If you look at the big sights they are either shooting reality content or they are getting high end content from companies like ours.

The name of the game here is retention and you are not going to retain users if content looks like something they shot of the girl next door.

:2 cents:

Marc
Owner
Matrix Content, Inc.

i know who the better photographer here is. :Graucho

http://www.pimpincontent.com/33.jpg

http://www.wanton.com/babes/img4/bre2.jpg

Damn it Mutt, I wish I could sell your stuff :)

Since I have a shit load of it,

Matrix shot themselves in the foot.

Shap if you want to put together a small buying group for semi-exclusive glamour photosets and videos let me know. There's no magic to shooting glamour, it's budget - it's a location rental, a good makeup/hair person, an assitant and some additional lighting.

You decide how many people are in the buying group.

Mutt how can i contact you? :) We've got some business to discuss, buying group or not :thumbsup

I think you are missingi it. If every affiliate gets free content, then all the tgps will have the same pictures on every line. How good will that be? The guy who puts up a different high-quality pic will get the traffice. How are you going to distinguish yourself from the others?

Agreed:(

Here is somemore of our stuff,

http://www.pimpincontent.com/nc.jpg

I also think the Semi Exclusive way eliminates the big hassle of monitoring who is using it illegally. It's alot easier to monitor 10 people than it is to sell $10 sets to 150 webmasters.