actually, he was saying that adult online accounts for less than 3% of Visa's business.

ahh yes.. I agree, we are just a thorn in visa's ass.

CCBILL. IBILL, EPHOCH are doing all they can to not piss of VISA and lose it for all of us. Eventually I think we will lose cc processing, but there will ALWAYS be a need for our services
and people will pay in one for or another..

things that come to mind:

1: Sms billing (I think that will be the biggest player soon)
2: Better online debit systems
3: Faster and more accurate check clearing systems
4: Web900 type phone systems that extend past north america
5: Duocash looks interesting. They could start a new type of system

Point is there will be other forms of money collecting that will get better as time goes on..

I believe you! This is what Moneris told me 3 years ago when I lost the ability to use my merchant account :-(
Maybe 3 years ago porn fraud was at its peak..

Even at it's peak, I don't think online porn fraud would account for 90% of credit card fraud. That is, unless we're talking solely about online fraud, and about the amount of fraud cases as opposed to an actual dollar amount.

Yes, not dollar amounts. Non Signature transactions.

But since you work there, one thing I do not undertand is...

Visa Takes the money from the fraudulent charge back out of my merchant back account.

Then they charge me a charge back fee..

It seems to me they MADE money from a chargeback/Fraud

more so in the case of chargebacks.. I could see where fraud they would have to eat the charges

The money taken out of your merchant account was first put in your merchant account. A credit and a debit cancel each other out.

As for the fees, Visa's employees do not work for free and Visa does not get office supplies for free. That's just two of the reasons why there are fees associated with chargebacks.

Is this thread still going on?

nope... it ended on page 2. the rest is just egg on your face.

grab a brain son :glugglug

I haven't sawed any problems with them other than the fact that their new stats are slow as fuck.

enjoyable.

what a waste, was lookin to see why he thinks ccbill is next, but I see no real hints.

ALL 3rd party billing ends in June. Its been said 100 times

Recururing 3rd party adult I mean .
Sorry

This is the first time I've heard it. Other than the vague "Ides of March" stuff that everyone posts.

Bingo :glugglug

assumptions blah blah

feelings blah blah

bullshit blah blah

:sleep

Well.. I read the whole thread.. all 4 pages.. that's a lot of pages to read and not see anything to support your comments Hooper.. you're a nice guy, but it seems to me that the only purpose of this thread is to harm CCBill in some way for whatever reasons you have .. I dunno.. it just seems that if you had something concrete, you would have said it by now.. what you're doing is not fair.. making predictions about them going down, and not giving them anything to refute..

dumb thread....

power to the Paradise Valley Porn Mafia :1orglaugh

Hoopers thread makes me ask Who bought Ibill?

$250K limit? Dude, you have no clue.

How could anyone survive only being able to process $250K a month?

-dd

Actually, I think that is pretty close but that's Porn total, not just internet...

However, a 1/3 of percent of somones biz won't even be noticed...:)

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh You and me both:winkwink:

Oh people, I really don?t try to involve myself or comment on these type of issues. Who ever says that CCBill will go out of business within the next 12 months, really doesn?t know CCBill and their team.

So Let me ask you , Are you posting from your day job now ??:1orglaugh

Four pages of hysteria and speculation.

The only issue Hooper brings up that has validity is that you want your processor to be run by conservative Bankers. Those processors that attend shows and get totally shitfaced make me wonder where does the poor judgement end? I do agree with Sleazy that taking a hit off of a joint at a party doesnt mean they sit during the week stoned, making decisions on how to process, but cocaine is a different thing. Thats a drug that is serious bad news, and better people than you and I have been unable to stop a slide into complete criminal conduct because of that drug.

I really hope your wrong Hooper. If CCBill were to fail, the financial agony and misery would affect everyone who makes a living in the adult internet industry.

I think the main effect that this thread has had has been opening people's eyes to the fact that you can NOT have all of your eggs in one basket... whatever that basket may be.

For example.

if CCBill went under on May 31st. I'd be just fine. They account for less than 2% of our processing.

if Other CC processors went under, it'd sting more... but there are always our own merchant accounts.

if we lost all of our merchant processing, it'd sting even more.. but there are always our checks (and the recurring) that we process through http://www.achdebit.com .... the best in the check biz. if you're not using them. you're leaving $$$ on the table.

If checks went under... it would hurt... but we're involved in nonadult and make more money there than from adult...

If the internet went down... it would hurt... but i've got a very successful brick & mortar business who's only problem is too much demand for our products.

Can you say the same thing?

I've been absolutely SHOCKED at how many people (even sizable programs) have been contacting me asking me what i KNOW because they are 100% ccbill... my only response to them was that i DO know something that you don't, and that they should *GO SIGN UP AT PAYCOM where i personally think you'll make more $ and send 50% of your new joins there so that you're protected!*

After all... who knows what will happen on May 31st? :2 cents:

Thanks, Hoop :) If anyone has any questions, please feel free to email me! :thumbsup

:eek7

Visa and Mastercard have been around way longer then the adult indsutry, I would be quite suprised to see if we went down, they went down. They have a lot bigger revenue streams then us I would think.

I gotta say Hooper that I haven't read much in the way of concrete reasoning in this thread on why you think CCBill is going down. Pretty vague stuff. :(

No response from CCbill yet? Or any other 3rd party at that. hmm

You're just reading the wrong board. :winkwink:

Concerning the fraud by adult sites, online auctions are by far the most fraudulent activity on the net today. Here is a source, but this is not the only source, they were several.

http://www.fraud.org/2002intstats.htm

It's also 2 years old, but I don't think it has changed that much. They are stating 90% of the online fraud is done through auctions.

The reason I'm bring this up is, think about it. What are they doing on that side of the market in order to curb it. Have you seen them make a statement like "If you own a ebay store your CB rate can be no higher than 1%"

Why is this? In business your first concern is to find out where you are losing money and fix it, but Visa and Mastercard are more worried about the "assocation" with the adult industry rather than where they are really losing money..... things that make you go hmmmmm. Sorry don't mean to hijake or thread or anything, but I never looked up the numbers until just now and realized that it is not adult sites that is the biggest contibutor to online fraud.

Ofthen times I really think I am. Link me on ICQ if you like.

thx

I usually work Monday-Friday, 12-8, but I'm on leave of absence right now. GFY is banned by our HR dept at work ;)

I hope you mean they've been around longer than the online adult industry. Because porn was around before credit cards...

Your right I just read a article on a fbi site, auctions are number one in fraud by a big margin. We are probably number one in friendly fraud lol.

Now we're talking simply fraud, and not just credit card fraud.
If we look at the list that taboo_dude posted, we see that although online auctions accounted for 90% of online fraud, only 34% was paid with credit cards.

The list also seems to be talking about fraud where the victim is a surfer rather than a company or a credit card issuer. It doesn't account for friendly fraud against merchants, or credit card fraud where the issuer or acquirer suffer the loss.

Can you tell us who you are going with so that we can avoid them?

You seem to be the kiss of death!

:1orglaugh

Well DUH LOL! Of course that what she means!

I hear they are big rivals of the Scottdale porn mafia.