Now ARS is going to start paying per 'active member' can someone explain what... - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

Jive · 01-26-2004, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by maxjohan
you rather get shaved?

I think it all started along time ago with fantasymans program..
now it sounds like no money?
like his program and others.. shall I go further..

confirmed signup/sting/

he.he.

I laughed when I saw Marc-de's speech like he tried 6 months ago! when webmasters cried foul back then now its back..

Marc-de is burning all the webmasters he can.. could be.
I never like the knob. nor ever admire his scam.

your on the way out there ARS.. like MAXCASH..

DarkJedi · 01-26-2004, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krome
ok how dumb arse stupid and totally greedy are you.

Did you actually think that ARS works for you? You shouldnt have. ARS works for Mark De. Why the fuck should he pay you if your traffic does not convert to a full membership? He will just go bankrupt and then you will get fuck all.

Any intelligent webmaster accepts the shave and lives with it. If the company remains profiable the webmaster remains making money.

Exactly.

davidd · 01-26-2004, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
HOW FUCKING FUNNY SOME PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE... ANYONE ELSE GUESS WHO THIS GUY IS BESIDES ME?

***********************************************
So anyway, at the end of the day, what have we learned from all these pages of thread?

I'm speaking strictly business...

The traditional pay per join on a recurring surfer membership doesn't work.

Fraud is ridiculous, surfers AND affiliates, and I'll wager a few bucks that before the end of the year the model is dead all the way around.

Surfers cancel, many times before they even log in. The ones that don't cancel that fast don't stay long, EVEN WITH ORIGINAL AND EXCLUSIVE CONTENT, in numbers that make the revenue model viable as it stands. The sites that do retain that well don't have enough members to compare with the huge affiliate program model, so let's not have a debate on how someone with 100 members can retain them for a year, they still don't make the money that someone doing 100 joins a day does.

Visa and Mastercard have had about enough with the entire business, that's obvious from the tighter and tighter restrictions they keep putting into place. The federal government is most likely going for some new regulations, one way or another from some rumors I hear as well.

Who was the big program that dumped pretty much all their affiliates recently? I don't see them out of business, just spending alot less time on fraud control and fighting chargebacks due to 'overmarketing' by overzealous resellers desperate to make a sale.

Oh well, enough ranting from me for the moment.

Hmmm, I have similar e-mails in my archives from 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, and now 2004.

The resounding point that so few programs choose to resolve (especially the ones running cookie cutter scripts from the various script shillers) is the issue of affiliate fraud.

If the various programs got their affiliate fraud under control, provided what they are selling on the main pages, and brought their payouts in line instead of being the no-net leaders, these issues would be less of a factor.

As I have stated numerous times in other threads, it is the quality of the content and the customer support that makes the sales and keeps the recurring. This has been proven year over year. People are throwing out the keywords of 'reality sites' etc etc. Regardless of what it is, as long as the content is not the same over sold bullshit - the sites will sell and keep members. The sites selling is clearly shown by the sales numbers the ARS sites do. The people were sold on the tours, they got into the member's areas and they bailed. Does that mean the business model sucks? No. The marketing was good, the internals of the site's suck, and to a lesser extent possible sticker shock for what was presented to them.

This post was not directed at ARS, it was in response to the e-mail Kimmy posted. I have known Mark for quite sometime and I will be interested to see what direction they go in... hopefully not some choke and puke $10 per site fantasy.

-dd

Lastly, as for the fear and uncertainty in that e-mail, will you people stop living your lives in fear and focus on living. I meet way too many people who think the boogie man is right behind them. Caution - Good. Paranoia - Bad.

maxjohan · 01-26-2004, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marc De
Hooper - a change in model isn't about lowering payouts. Out with the old, in with the new!

I want to sign up to your program but it looks like I can't-- is it really so bad?

I figured it out now.

Carrie · 01-26-2004, 04:41 AM

*sips soda, reads... smiles...*

Okay so other than bitching about members areas that you can't change but continue to send traffic to (hello?) - anyone want to guess on what the new Visa/MC regulations will be?

maxjohan · 01-26-2004, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KC

You need to calculate value per click you send. It's the only way to compare apples to apples across various sponsors. I don't care if I get paid per web surfer ejaculation, per bald surfer that signs up for a 5 day trial, etc etc.

Calculate the value per click and it doesn't matter if they shave you or not.

Assuming two sponsors A and B, they both are equally as likely to pay you (you have valid references for both sponsors).

Sponsor A shaves you, but your traffic is worth $0.02 per raw click based on your tracking.

Sponsor B does not shave you, but your traffic is worth $0.01 per raw click based on your tracking.

Which one will pay you more money for the same traffic?

I'm not condoning shaving. However, evaluating sponsors in this manner is the only way to accurately measure the performance of 1 sponsor vs. another.

thanks..but this wasn't sponsor vs. sponsor. But in the end do you really want a wife that cheat on you?

maxjohan · 01-26-2004, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
*sips soda, reads... smiles...*

Okay so other than bitching about members areas that you can't change but continue to send traffic to (hello?) - anyone want to guess on what the new Visa/MC regulations will be?

Game Over

reynold · 01-26-2004, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krome
ok how dumb arse stupid and totally greedy are you.

Did you actually think that ARS works for you? You shouldnt have. ARS works for Mark De. Why the fuck should he pay you if your traffic does not convert to a full membership? He will just go bankrupt and then you will get fuck all.

Any intelligent webmaster accepts the shave and lives with it. If the company remains profiable the webmaster remains making money.

They are not going on ACTIVE membership payout model (like CECash)

reynold · 01-26-2004, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marc De
pamphage - I hear ya... I don't necessarily think we're a dying breed like the dinosaurs. I do believe it is time for ARS ReInvented.

For what they WERE (are) GIM sites aren't that bad. Comparing them to other sites in the same catagory they held their ground nicely. Comparing them to video sites and reality sites they BLEW ass. Thus, pave the way for the new...

Change is definitely afoot... Note that past tense above (BLEW). I think Marc's idea will catch on. Definitely time for CONTENT to be king again.

reynold · 01-26-2004, 06:01 AM

Marc....

Suspense is killing me: what do you mean by this:
I also believe there is other opportunities other than paysite promotion that webmasters can use to generate revenue from their traffic inventories (and easier).

Quote:

Originally posted by Marc De
Mutt - thanks and that is what I meant when I 'defend' GIMs sites. Comparing apples to apples...

However, plug in content mostly does BLOW and the key is providing the customers with an experience they can't get from any other paysite that is spending a few measley grand / mo on sub standard plug in videos.

I believe there is a lot more to maximizing the monetization of traffic for affiliates and those changes will come down the pipeline too. I also believe there is other opportunities other than paysite promotion that webmasters can use to generate revenue from their traffic inventories (and easier). All changes to come with ARS RI! Coming Soon...

Trax · 01-26-2004, 06:16 AM

i dont even want to think about possible changes
this is going to be a hard year

reynold · 01-26-2004, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brujah
The future is in subculture communities. Communities + Porn.

http://www.suicidegirls.com

http://www.ishotmyself.com:80/public/main.php

http://www.camwhores.com

http://www.biggercity.com/home/default.asp

Now, why the heck did you have to spoil the surprise?

But these require blog / community post content.....

Good thing there's that other great new change in the industry... cheap labor. example: http://www.webmasterlabor.com/services.html

reynold · 01-26-2004, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
*sips soda, reads... smiles...*

Okay so other than bitching about members areas that you can't change but continue to send traffic to (hello?) - anyone want to guess on what the new Visa/MC regulations will be?

The future is not in PROGRAMS.... but in CONTENT PROVIDERS.

Customization and Micro distribution is the Future... specially when VISA finally FORCES processors to EMAIL MANDATORY REBILL NOTICES (no explicit permission = no rebill)

Daymare · 01-26-2004, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jive

I think it all started along time ago with fantasymans program..
now it sounds like no money?
like his program and others.. shall I go further..

confirmed signup/sting/

he.he.

I laughed when I saw Marc-de's speech like he tried 6 months ago! when webmasters cried foul back then now its back..

Marc-de is burning all the webmasters he can.. could be.
I never like the knob. nor ever admire his scam.

your on the way out there ARS.. like MAXCASH..

lol, maxcash isn't even on the way out. I make more money with them than any other program.

FlyingIguana · 01-26-2004, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marc De
roflmao

ARS is is no way switching to a per active model. I have been on our message board giving a bit of my 'State of the Industry'.

Changes are on the horizon for this ENTIRE industry. Those changes do NOT necessarily mean a reduction in payout. That will NOT solve the problem long term. Many (most) PPS programs are not making profit on new traffic. The model of cookie cutter sites paying more for traffic than that traffic produces in revenue is going to go. Shaves will be turned on (or up in the case of some) or models will change.

This is what I call the year of content. No more over promising tours and under delivering tours. Higher quality sites, less super niche sites, and better content will separate the men from the boys. In the mean time, the old has to be done away with to pave a path for th new.

ARS is not switching from a PPS to a pay per active or recurring model. We are not dropping payouts on our existing portfolio. Our changes are much better than that...

it took you this long to figure out that content is king? ARS has many great ideas and have always had a top notch webmaster program, but the members areas were just plain shit. its much better now than it was a couple years ago, but there's still room for improvement.

Xenophage · 01-26-2004, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KC

You need to calculate value per click you send. It's the only way to compare apples to apples across various sponsors. I don't care if I get paid per web surfer ejaculation, per bald surfer that signs up for a 5 day trial, etc etc.

Calculate the value per click and it doesn't matter if they shave you or not.

Assuming two sponsors A and B, they both are equally as likely to pay you (you have valid references for both sponsors).

Sponsor A shaves you, but your traffic is worth $0.02 per raw click based on your tracking.

Sponsor B does not shave you, but your traffic is worth $0.01 per raw click based on your tracking.

Which one will pay you more money for the same traffic?

I'm not condoning shaving. However, evaluating sponsors in this manner is the only way to accurately measure the performance of 1 sponsor vs. another.

and yet webmasters still fall for marketing bs over and over..
we pay %80 of the 50% before the shave and the cc charges

maybye surfers are the same way still.......

this thread i started a few days ago falls along this topic of conversation

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=225133&perpage=50&pagen umber=1

taboo_dude · 01-26-2004, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reynold
Marc....

Suspense is killing me: what do you mean by this:
I also believe there is other opportunities other than paysite promotion that webmasters can use to generate revenue from their traffic inventories (and easier).

adult specific but not paysites, penis pills, virility patches, herbal supplements,

I'm just guessing though.

rabbit · 01-26-2004, 10:55 AM

well its these cookie cutter sites that made mine and other likes possible... we sort through all the crap for the surfer

but i never eally understood how a crappy site can charge 40$/month while some of the best (like nasty and bangbros), charge under 30 and give 20 times more quality content. after a certain point there will be no more ignorant people you can take advantage off.

rabbit

Dugan · 01-26-2004, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by carbondream
well its these cookie cutter sites that made mine and other likes possible... we sort through all the crap for the surfer

but i never eally understood how a crappy site can charge 40$/month while some of the best (like nasty and bangbros), charge under 30 and give 20 times more quality content. after a certain point there will be no more ignorant people you can take advantage off.

rabbit

ahhh, you underestimate the millions of kids that eventually get turned on to porn...

Kimmykim · 01-26-2004, 11:08 AM

I love the way that resellers refuse to bear any responsibility for the situation.

Say it together now kids, "my job is only to get the surfer to the tour, its the sponsors job to retain them", all the while overmarketing the site -- and I dont mean intentionally in all cases, though the recent Paris Hilton "site" is a prime example of some very zealous marketing with nothing to back it up but a huge bill to the surfer...

This isn't Marc's fault, this isn't Maxcash's fault and this isn't even Jive's fault (he's just an idiot).

Everyone in this business helped build the beast, now everyone in this business has to feed it. Not a pretty sight and not one that's going to last for too much longer.

I'd be curious to see how many pps owners are actually making any real money per join at the end of the day. And with all these popup blockers and such going on, the value of exit traffic is declining rapidly so that's another slap in the bank accounts to these guys.

Resellers are always asking how someone can pay out 35 bucks on a 4 dollar trial and make money. Well, it's just about impossible any more.

Carrie · 01-26-2004, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Resellers are always asking how someone can pay out 35 bucks on a 4 dollar trial and make money. Well, it's just about impossible any more.

Except for those who have the shave turned up to 70%.
And for those webmasters who'll come on here claiming no one shaves that much, keep dreaming. You're probably sending traffic to them.

TheEnforcer · 01-26-2004, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marc De
Headless / Enforcer - I feel a bit strange maybe I should post a (pic) to make it feel right ROFL

Yeah, I'm enjoying myself quite a bit!

Brad, last I checked you were in a whole heap of shit just like me !! ;)

Hahaha!!

TheEnforcer · 01-26-2004, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brujah
The future is in subculture communities. Communities + Porn.

http://www.suicidegirls.com

http://www.ishotmyself.com:80/public/main.php

http://www.camwhores.com

http://www.biggercity.com/home/default.asp

I do believe Sykkboy showed me that suicidegirls.com domain quite some time ago. Liked it then, like it now. There are all sorts of models that can work depending on what your focus is.

TheEnforcer · 01-26-2004, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
HOW FUCKING FUNNY SOME PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE... ANYONE ELSE GUESS WHO THIS GUY IS BESIDES ME?

***********************************************
So anyway, at the end of the day, what have we learned from all these pages of thread?

I'm speaking strictly business...

The traditional pay per join on a recurring surfer membership doesn't work.

Fraud is ridiculous, surfers AND affiliates, and I'll wager a few bucks that before the end of the year the model is dead all the way around.

Surfers cancel, many times before they even log in. The ones that don't cancel that fast don't stay long, EVEN WITH ORIGINAL AND EXCLUSIVE CONTENT, in numbers that make the revenue model viable as it stands. The sites that do retain that well don't have enough members to compare with the huge affiliate program model, so let's not have a debate on how someone with 100 members can retain them for a year, they still don't make the money that someone doing 100 joins a day does.

Visa and Mastercard have had about enough with the entire business, that's obvious from the tighter and tighter restrictions they keep putting into place. The federal government is most likely going for some new regulations, one way or another from some rumors I hear as well.

Who was the big program that dumped pretty much all their affiliates recently? I don't see them out of business, just spending alot less time on fraud control and fighting chargebacks due to 'overmarketing' by overzealous resellers desperate to make a sale.

Oh well, enough ranting from me for the moment.

ahhh beauty and brains what a combo!!

TheEnforcer · 01-26-2004, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darren
i agree totally and content will be king... its all about providing the surfer with regular updates, interactive abilities to promote a community and unique content...

Thats why when we produced Mens-Network we did just that, 10 updates a day and much more.

This is why stuff like www.uniqueplugins.com works so well in keeping members.

those are interesting and unique plug-ins!!

Kimmykim · 01-26-2004, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie

Except for those who have the shave turned up to 70%.
And for those webmasters who'll come on here claiming no one shaves that much, keep dreaming. You're probably sending traffic to them.

Carrie, maybe you should read KC's post on the preceding page. That might explain it to you.

quiet · 01-26-2004, 07:30 PM

great thread

Sausage · 01-26-2004, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet
great thread

I am sure your 16000th post will be a link to your affiliate program ?

01-26-2004, 10:55 AM	#168
rabbit Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal Posts: 2,124	well its these cookie cutter sites that made mine and other likes possible... we sort through all the crap for the surfer but i never eally understood how a crappy site can charge 40$/month while some of the best (like nasty and bangbros), charge under 30 and give 20 times more quality content. after a certain point there will be no more ignorant people you can take advantage off. rabbit __________________ Got a paysite? Get it reviewed by RabbitsReviews and TheBestPorn

01-26-2004, 07:30 PM	#177
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	great thread __________________ we'll miss you our friend. RIP

01-26-2004, 04:41 AM	#155
Carrie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Virgin - nee Posts: 3,162	sips soda, reads... smiles... Okay so other than bitching about members areas that you can't change but continue to send traffic to (hello?) - anyone want to guess on what the new Visa/MC regulations will be?

01-26-2004, 06:16 AM	#161
Trax [----------------------] Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 14,486	i dont even want to think about possible changes this is going to be a hard year

01-26-2004, 11:08 AM	#170
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	I love the way that resellers refuse to bear any responsibility for the situation. Say it together now kids, "my job is only to get the surfer to the tour, its the sponsors job to retain them", all the while overmarketing the site -- and I dont mean intentionally in all cases, though the recent Paris Hilton "site" is a prime example of some very zealous marketing with nothing to back it up but a huge bill to the surfer... This isn't Marc's fault, this isn't Maxcash's fault and this isn't even Jive's fault (he's just an idiot). Everyone in this business helped build the beast, now everyone in this business has to feed it. Not a pretty sight and not one that's going to last for too much longer. I'd be curious to see how many pps owners are actually making any real money per join at the end of the day. And with all these popup blockers and such going on, the value of exit traffic is declining rapidly so that's another slap in the bank accounts to these guys. Resellers are always asking how someone can pay out 35 bucks on a 4 dollar trial and make money. Well, it's just about impossible any more.