The vast majority of the people here did not support the war, and when one of our colonels falsely represented us as being "part of the alliance" in front of the international media, the entire country was severely pissed off. :2 cents:

(our official stance: we supported the war, but not militarily)

Based on that how come we arent going all the other countries , that kill and treat their people like shit?

Don't be a bitch 12clicks, every post I've seen from you hasn't had any facts. All its had is some whitty right wing remark followed by a :1orglaugh

Start using real points in arguments instead of shitty one liners.

Did I mention your a bitch? :321GFY

What the hell was with his state of the union speech? Is this guy asking to start World War III?

Most homosxual couples don't a shit about 'religious marriage'.
They want secular 'legal marriage'.

The concept of marriage was not invented by the christian church.
(contrary to what they want you to believe) It doesn't belong to them.
Take those blessings and stick them up your ass, closet case priests.

Committed gay couples want to be able to go into a court room
and get a judge to grant them equal treatment in the eyes of the law.

It's not about god.
(despite bigoted attempts to steer the debate in that direction)
It's about property, and taxes, and treatment.

You must mentally untangle the church definition and the state definition.

As long as the state is granting special rights to committed couples,
and calling it "marriage", then they must grant those rights to all couples,
regardless of their sexual preference.

They supported it because they where threatened and blackmailed or bought. Besides, those countries are doing it against the will of the majority of there population. 17 Other countries? Which ones? Out of 190 countries, you could only give me a list of no more than 20 countries?

It's Bush who's thumbing his nose at everyone else. Where are those illegal weapons btw? They must've sold him weapons worth a trillion otherwise it'd be a lot more profitable to support the invasion of Iraq.

Did I mention your grammar sucks - it should be *you're* a bitch, not *your* a bitch.

If you're going to insult people, make sure you're perfect yourself first!

If I was gay I'd stop paying my taxes. You don't consider me as an equal? Fuck off then. Why should they work hard and pay taxes like everyone else if they're not treated the same?

I hate it when people correct people about grammer. Grammer is for important things, not a post on a message board.

I'd would like to have you're babies because you're a big penis'.

Fear.

I only pointed out grammar to point out that you're not perfect yourself, not because its either important or not for a board. I personally couldn't care less whether or not your grammar is correct, what I could care less about is the attitude that you take towards others.

Obviously.

Wrong.
It does when the religious institution has ALREADY been "recognizing or rewarded" special secular state rights.

If marriage was just a religious thing between two people then yeah gays would have no right to alter it to suit their needs, but when marriage brings special secular rights like access to your partners superannuation, property etc then yes they deserve equality under law.

I couldn't give a flying fuck whether joe gaydar gets access to his "husbands" super or whatever. Those are the sorts of rights there should be NO arguing over.

so either let them get married or change the rules so there are absolutely no property/financial differences.. none.. nada.. zip.

if two atheists can get married I don't see what the problem is.

12 clicks does truly represent heterosexuality.
He is the product of two cousins.

So, you just basically have to remember he's kinda slow because of his heritage...which is VERY heterosexual!

Hallelujah brother! Sing the praise of unqualified love! :thumbsup

Why?

Because Finland likes making fun of the United States?
That's the only reason I can think of for you voting that way.

Dead on right my friend! :thumbsup

Take any impartial person on this issue and I have absolutely no doubt that they would find all the right winger's comments totally nonsensical or without merit. While those in favor of TRUE civil rights have made excellent points in this thread that have not been refuted with any intelligent debate and/or evidence.

Oh..the spelling police just landed a huge right hook with their witty comment totally offsetting the points made. :1orglaugh

He wasn't insulting 12 Clicks..he was STATING THE OBVIOUS!

oh look, another 3rd grader for [Leader] and crew to recruit.:1orglaugh

haha, sorry son but if we let you half assed liberals change the definition of marriage, I'm sure you'll change the definition of "job" to mean slavery and outlaw that too.:1orglaugh

I don't think there's many people fit to raise a family these days :2 cents:

The days of urban sprawl and leave it to beaver are over. Sheer overpopulation will tell you that. Life's only gonna get harder and more expensive. Even if a kid has 2 parents unless the dad's rich the mom's still gonna have to work.

Darwinism is gonna weed out the children who can't raise themselves.

Gore won.

Cheers,
Matt

Careful what you wish for... gaining total world power with an iron-clad fist takes time, ya know :winkwink:

Seriously though - because these other countries are involved in "talks" (everyone join with me in a big "PFFFT") and are at least making enough headway or concessions that no one has deemed this necessary. The current exception to this being North Korea, who is putting up pretty much the same front as Saddam but actually even worse. They're still talking though. (Hell they'll probably talk until they're blue in the face and the entire common populace has starved to death. Idiots.)

Oh please.

We're gonna threaten 34 countries. Right. Militarily we're strong enough to take on 34 different countries of varying sizes scattered all over the world all at the same time. And these countries know it too, so they just humbly bowed down to our omnipotent power. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

They were blackmailed. That's cute. No really, that's cute. We sent Jimmy Hoffa to each of these countries and made them offers they couldn't refuse. Cuz Jimmy's not dead, you know. He's just working undercover for the CIA. *rolls eyes*

They were bought. All of them? God, no wonder there is no money left in the US. All of the ATMs here are dry. The Federal Reserve has been completely emptied of gold and we're in a major crisis!!! Why haven't you heard about it? Why, because the American media is such a puppet of the administration, that's why!! All broadcasts that go out to the world are pre-screened, edited and corrected to say only what Ho Chi Bush says they should say! But thankfully, you know the truth now, because you read GFY. You are one of the enlightened, one of the few!!

Now go run and hide before the black helicopters come find you... they're tracing your every move on the internet and they've already intercepted this transmission. They can't allow the truth to get out, ya know.

You don't get out much, do you?

I'll be sure to tell my kids (2 at present, one on the way) that technically, we don't exist - a working dad and a mom staying home to raise the kids just doesn't fit the agenda therefore we must not be here.

Carrie:

DUH? Is that all? Just 34??

Add another batch that were bribed .. wake up for God's sake!

Threats come naturally for that piece of lying Texas trash which you seem to adore for some reason...

This was proven incorrect by multiple independent studies 3 years ago. Bush won no matter how you want to count those stupid chads. (God let's hope none of those things are involved in this election.)

Bush won. Period. Proven over and over again. Come join us in 2004. You'll find a lot of neat things have changed. Just wait until you see what Visa has done to the business - boy will you be surprised! And that whole 9/11 thing... phew you've got a lot of catching up to do.

I already addressed bribing, please scroll up.

Lying Texas trash. Hrrmm. Does that mean that all Texans are trash? Or just possibly that all Texans lie? Or maybe both - that all Texans lie *and* are trash?

It must have some connotation connected with Texans, otherwise you wouldn't have bothered to include that little fact. You'd have just said "lying trash".

So I'm curious here. When was it exactly that you developed this hatred towards Texans?

Carrie:

What crap are you talking now?

Did I say or even imply "all Texans are trash"? NO

Did I say "possibly" that all Texans lie? NO

Did I even refer to ANY other Texan that the lying trash in the Whitehouse? NO

Get a real life and grow up...

You remind me of how totally crazy with hate some republicans were about Clinton. It's kinda funny.

150 lies

jas1552:

Is there some meaning someplace??? Hate?? What's with all this republican and Clinton crap?? :1orglaugh

Just saying you remind me of how some Rush Limbaugh type republicans were foaming at the mouth with their hate for Clinton. They acted like he was evil incarnate much like you seem to think of Bush. It's both a little entertaining and a little disturbing.

All of this is really funny. For every leap to the extreme that you want to make, I can make just an extreme leap to illustrate how ridiculous you're being.
After all, Jimmy Hoffa is sitting right here next to me with a few of his thugs. :winkwink:

You guys want to play semantics? Fine. Try this on for size.
The definition of marriage is a union between a man and a woman as husband and wife.
It has nothing, nada, zero, zip to do with religion. Nothing to do with Christians. Nothing to do with bible-belters.
It is a definition that has existed since written language first sprung up.
If you don't like it, well, too damn bad! Pick another word, for christ's sake! (pun very much intended)

Don't try to blame it on the Christians. Don't try to blame it on the Muslims, or the Jews, or the Pagans, or the Buddhists, or any religion.
Blame it on Webster! He's the culprit here! And his buddy Merriam, too. The damn know it all. They must think they're better than everyone else. Yeah, that's it.
Better yet, blame it on the Latins, from which the english language is derived. Those damn Latins, surely they must've been up to something! *rolls eyes*

If it is TRULY about taxes, and property, and being able to visit your dying brother in a hospital bed, then wake the fuck up and quit trying to make it about MARRIAGE. Call it what it is - a union, nothing more - and go lobby Congress to pass laws stating that hospitals and real estate attorneys and geeky IRS agents must recognize a gay UNION.
Because a MARRIAGE always has been, and always will be between a man and a woman. If you'd like to go back and rewrite history and start changing definitions, then I'd surely like to propose that we change "pornography" to mean "all-encompassing light of goodness and purity".
Think that's extreme? So is trying to change the meaning of a word that's been around for thousands of years.

Now since we've debunked that whole stupid rhetorical theory, let's get to the nitty-gritty of it. It is NOT about property, or taxes, or visiting sick people in hospitals... it's about making a statement. Nothing more, nothing less. It's an agenda, a big colorful parade going down the middle of main street forcing everyone to look and listen. No matter if they want to look, or listen, or not.
Akin to the stupid bitch who tried forcing her way into a men's-only golf club in Augusta, Georgia - no matter that there were plenty of other golf clubs that she could attend, no matter that there are even women-only golf clubs that she could attend - she felt the need to take this dumb, extremist, selfish issue as far as it could go - just to make a freaking point.

There are certain constants that cannot be denied.
Women and men are completely and totally separate. This will not change.
Women can have babies, men cannot. This will not change.
Only a man and a woman together can conceive a child. This will not change.

Now if you want to go around trumpeting that men who act like, dress like, and talk like women actually *are* women and should be recognized as such... well, more power to you. Just don't bitch when someone points out the fact that you're wrong.
Same goes for women who take the "butch" stance with their female lovers - this does not make them men.

Therefore, the age-old time-tested definition of marriage that says those magical little words, "a man and a woman" - that's not going to change no matter how much you stomp your feet and hold your breath. No matter how much you scream that it's the Christians who insist it's so.

A union is a bond between any two people, or any number of people, of any sex, race, religion, etc etc etc. A marriage is a more focused and specific union, between a man and a woman. Period.

So let's quit blaming it on the Christians, shall we? Egads already.

wow.. you really don't pay that much attention do you.

It's kinda hard to say this.. it's like talking to a child who doesn't understand what the grownups are saying.

The US plays a key position in global politics, including trade, aid and military support.
These are all well worn levers of co-ersion.
Heres an example you'll understand : the trade embargo on Cuba.
Trade is a weapon because it means money. An embargo or sanctions punishes a country when a much more powerful country is in a position to co-erce it.
The flipside of that is giving trade to countries to get them to do something beneficial to the country in the bargaining position.

The best way for you to understand this is the 26 BILLION America offered to Turkey to invade Iraq from their border.

but rather that just coming up with the cash you offer lucrative trade contracts.

This in fact was a key part of Australia joining the Iraq war, we are currently negotiating a free trade agreement with the states and our support for the war should get us many concessions.
As well given we leant token military support we get a part of the "spoils" - the lucrative rebuilding and trade contracts.

I should add here that it's not just the US that does it.. it's all countries in a position of power.. it's called POLITICS.

It might seem funny to you but thats just because of ignorance.

For instance Australia is currently using our aid contributions as a bargaining chip to small neighbouring countries.

you don't even have to offer them money.. you can just threaten to take away what you're already giving.

The list of 34 is hilarious there are only a few countries that even matter. Those 34 countries make up about 10% of the population! And it's only based on VOCAL support. Not to mention most all of those countries actual populations was against the war!
England was the only country to even send any troops other than a few specialist squadrons here and there.
one of those 34 countries is a pissweak pacific island that DOESN'T EVEN HAVE AN ARMY.

It's basic politics 101 that everyone even remotely aware of whats going on around them should understand. The 34 countries on that list aren't there because they thought it was a great idea, most (but not all of course) are there because it's a chance to jump on the US gravy train while America is willing to pay to get something done... or not screw up their foreign aid... or help become members of NATO.. or whatever little piece of the pie that particular country wants.

Why do you think France, Germany and Russia were against the invasion? not because they're anti-war saints - it's all their contracts tied up in Iraq! and it's the same on the US end.. All countries behave the same.. none are worse than others..

I hope this has opened you eyes a little as this is how international politics works.. No country does something without having something to gain, not America, not Australia.. not FIJI.
I hope that explains it for you.
cheers.

Nice rant. I give it a :thumbsup

jas1552:

Ah! That's what you got on your mind... "Limbaugh type republicans were foaming at the mouth with their hate for Clinton"?

Sorry I can't be responsible for Limbaugh type republicans" or "Clinton".

Devil incarnate eh? :glugglug Well no, - to clarify your obvious misunderstanding, I can tell you that I don't actually "hate" anyone.

I will explain, once again that I consider the Texas trash to be a liar - and plenty more!! You may, or may not agree, but you are free to express your opinion tho I notice this always sidesteps the subject you are trying "not" to address.

Are you really that stupid?

Sadly the quick answer is yes.

But the christian conservatives who currently occupy too many positions of power
in this country do not want to officially recognize any relationship between same-sex
partners because the bible tells them it is an abomination.

If it were just a matter of labels and definitions, there wouldn't be much arguement.



Sexual identity and sexual attraction and sexual biology are seperate attributes.
There are many "transgendered" people that, regardless of weather or not
they attempt some physiological transformation, are mentally one sex while physically another.
If you cannot accept the science of that, then your mind is just closed to the research.
If you cannot understand the 'hidden' neurology/psychology, then I would ask you
about physical hermaphrodites. Who do they get to marry in your ideologically pure world?


It has changed. In many countries, and now some US states.