I understand your point, I really do. But my point is that there are MANY things we could outlaw to save lives. Just because YOU enjoy those things, or they make YOUR life easier, you don't want them outlawed.

Hmmmm.....I see what you're trying to say, but ...


If guns were illegal, then only criminals would own guns. They don't give a damn about whether or not guns are legal. All they care about is getting what they want and by any means available.

Guns are not difficult to manufacture. You don't even have to have metal to do it. You can make a "gun" of sorts (ever heard of a the potato cannon?) with some PVC pipe and gunpowder.

There is no preventing guns from being available. If they're illegal, criminals will just manufacture their own or smuggle them in from somewhere else.

As far as never having made them legal in the first place, I'm sorry, but I really doubt that it would have changed much. One way or another, someone would have had a gun. It's the cookie jar syndrome. If it's not to be had, naturally we want it.

What is the military supposed to use if not guns? Would we be throwing rocks at each other, or just screaming taunts back and forth?
Scenes from Monty Python come to mind....

Bv, thats the problem. Here in Holland guns are illegal and a guy robbing your house with a gun in his hand is rare, very rare.
So we dont need a gun to defend ourself. Once again, its the fact that guns are legal that is the problem in the first place. You know he might have a gun so you also want a gun.

I can outrun a phone, but not a bullet, so yes

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...hoots+intruder

woman shoots intruder


9690 google results, I'm sure there are a few good reasons in there why guns for "self defense" should be kept legal.

Dude, didnt you see the stats i posted on the other page. Look at the difference between a country where its legal and where its no legal. Dont fool yourself. Give it a 1 min look and you'll see that you are wrong.
Ofcourse you are so used to guns because everyone and his brother has one and if they would ban guns tomorrow in the states the country would still have tons of illegal guns.
But look at a country where guns were never legal in the first place, those stats dont like dude. You can think all you want be the stats show something very different.

I, like the majority of Americans, prefer to have guns and all of the risks which surround their availability than not to have guns.

Why? What is worth that huge cost in terms of lives lost?

I want to be able to put a bullet in someone who deserves it, be it politician, criminal, child molester, invading soldier, rabbid dog, or a very wealthy old relative who just refuses to die.

no better than comparing handgun deaths to car accidents.



idiot

YESSSSSSSSSSS ofcourse i already answered this.

Bv, thats the problem. Here in Holland guns are illegal and a guy robbing your house with a gun in his hand is rare, very rare.
So we dont need a gun to defend ourself. Once again, its the fact that guns are legal that is the problem in the first place. You know he might have a gun so you also want a gun.

LOL, that's just to attract the tourists. The majority of the clientele of coffeeshops is definitely not Dutch :)

Huh? Who are you talking to, i was the one saying that people who compare guns to car accidents are idiots.
We all know you cant write but i guess i just found out you cant read as well.

there are places where gun ownership is required? really?

and I would venture that every state has more death due to car wrecks than handguns

Lets not got there, its something they will never understand.
We all smoke pot in Holland while wearing our clogs. I was waiting for a comment like this. Its pathetic, lets ignore it.

You are missing my point here Bat, your mom, or wife can not defend herself against a big mean criminal with a knife or club can she? most could not anyways......


..... a .357 in hand would even the odds though.

Well...maybe you are.

Ok we had 10 people saying now there are more people dying because of car accidents than gun accidents.

Whats next, someone whos gonna say more people die because of a huge earthquake than of guns???

Fuck this makes me so tired. I already said it ten times now. Cars is something we need in this world, guns are not.
Same with knives, same with windows you can fall out of, same with tootpicks you can use to stab someones eye out.

Please stop comparing car accidents with having guns. Its sooooooooooooo non related.

So, even in wonderful Holland where guns are illegal, the criminals still have them if they want them? Hmmm....makes ya' wonder.

Exactly! Good point! This is why the robber will enter the house with a gun. This is why the person who didnt have a gun before now will buy a gun because he knows the robber will have a gun...etc.

So, you say people cannot live without cars? It happened for many 100's of years but, whatever.

How about if the law is changed so that all cars are made will roll bars, no radios (which distract people), and no car can go over 40 mph. Would that be ok with you since it would save a few lives?

Dam check this out Bat, lots of good reasons:
http://womentoarms.net/mother-liberty.jpg
http://womentoarms.net/had_gun2.html

100 fools

Right, because a robber wants to end up in a shootout instead of just preying on someone without the defense of a gun.

You are putting the cart before the horse.

By your logic, we need to make robbery legal, because if a person uses ANY means to defend himself, the robber will always look to one up him as opposed to finding a weaker victim.

So if I am crippled, a robber will rob me using his hands.
If I am a regular unarmed person, he will use a knife.
If I am armed with a knife, he will use a bat.
If I am armed with a bat, he will use a tazer.
If I am armed with a tazer, he will use a gun.
If I am armed with a gun, he will use a gun too.

So what's the point of self-defense? Let's just surrender to the criminals!

LOL
I give up

hey battus... ever stop to wonder why nobody is on your side?

could it be that you are a blabbering fool?

Your so fucking wrong man!

Robbers will and were always entering houses without guns and raping and harming women. Guns allow the weaker to protect themselves over the stronger.

Good idea -- just go ahead and agree with me now -- it will save a lot of time.

I'm not agreeing with you, I just decided to rather go talk to a wall.

Where did you get your stats? Hmm? If they came from governmental agencies, I'm very disinclined to worry myself over them. If they came from the NRA, I'm VERY disinclined to worry over them. I don't really adhere to either of those.

This just comes around to being a circle of "I believe this way because I refuse to believe your way." That's fine. If you don't feel safe around guns, then that's your perogative.

But don't you DARE critisize those of us who legally own, safely use, and accept responsibility for our guns. Those of us who are responsible gun owners who don't want to be scared to sleep at night because of criminals who have guns, who don't mind being ready and able to stand up to intruders, and can fight for what we believe in don't deserve the bad press, (and that's what it really is, those stats, those "facts", those news articles that blatantly demean gun owners). You think we're stupid, whoopdeshit.

You can scorn or judge us all you want. Just know that we also get to scorn and judge, and more than derision, it's pity that we feel for the closed-mindedness that many anti-gun people exude.

People have the right to defend their homes and themselfs in every way they want. Very true.

Im jut saying that for instance (cant find stats on this)
In the US where guns are legal, lets say out of 10.000 robberies there prolly (dont know, giving examples) there will be 100 with a gun inflicted dead. On both sides, robber and victim.
While in a country where guns are illegal and the chances of a robber and the owner of the house having a gun are VERY rare out of 10.000 robberies there will be mabe 10 deadly endings.

Know what i mean?

I really agree with you, you have to feel safe in your house and be able to defend yourself how you want but once again guns will result in more deads on both sides!

Ok, im really gonna work for a bit, i'll check back later...im fucking tired of typing right now.

what a idiot :(

he must be going through hell right now though

I have a pistol on my computer desk at all times. I have a pistol...rifle...or shotgun in every room in the house. If I answer the door late at night it is almost always with a pistol in my hand.

A few months ago (I posted about the incident at the time) a guy that was apparently strung out on drugs barged into my house when I answered the door late at night (a night that I negligently answered the door without my pistol in my hand) and I had to deal with him physically...which put me in harms way. Fortunately I was capable of handling him...but it would have required much less exertion to pull a trigger.

OWNED,


lol

My question for this would be..
Out of those 100 dead in the US, how many are robbers? Because we don't care about dead robbers.

Out of those 10 dead where guns are illegal, how many are the people being robbed?

Those are the numbers you should compare.

its funny.. b/c these incedents are so rare.. that it makes national news.. if it was an every day thing like an "automobile death".. it would not make the news...

buff makes a good point.. w/o guns we would still be under the rule of Britain...

cocaine is illegal.. does it stop the rampid use among americans??? don't be such a fool.. making something illegal... is like putting a band aid on cancer...



oh and about the actual article.. the dad is the one to blame.. not the gun.. any gun saftey course could have prevented that.. but wait.. I think that is already a law.. you need gun safety courses before getting a hunting license... geez.. why the fuck did this happen... the "law" should have prevented it...

typical dutch woman.


the gun had nothing to do witrh it. The brains of the father were at fault. nothing morew.

I completely agree with u 100 percent

:(

I don't know anything about hunting but I would wager that most hunters in here would agree the dad was very irresponsible shooting at something he wasn't sure was an animal.

Wanna stop crackheads with guns? Kill the crackheads or get rid of crack. This silly argument could go on forever and ever and ever but we aren't getting rid of our guns. PERIOD

I am mildly interested in this 300% rise in violent crimes. Do you have a link?

Everything I have read on guns in the home is negative, not positive. I personally do not see how having a gun can save your life if someone breaks into your home with a gun and intent to kill you.

Life isnt like the movies, most homeowners have the gun locked up in a case, with a triggrerlock and the bullets stored in another (probably locked) case. By the time you did that all out and load your gun, the bad guys have your wife and kids tied up in the bathroom and you lose.

The stats I have read, show that homeowners with guns in the home tend to have those guns used against them.

Most people who break into a house are after money and goods - they arent out to take lives. If you dont have a gun, they break in, take your shit and leave, you file a police report, collect insurance and buy bigger locks. Life goes on.

If you have a gun, pull it out, get in a struggle and get shot, your family loses you and you die. I dunno....