TurboAngel

You got that right!

jennym

Hey dumbass, I wasn't referring to the graph. In the first paragraph it says

Accidental Deaths 866

If we want to talk about Homicides, then you should first tell me how many homicides were commited using a LEGALLY OBTAINED gun. Otherwise the figure means nothing.

I am far from an angry little girl. It is a shame you are not intelligent enough to come up with one valid argument

jennym

Do you really think that people who commit suicide would say
"Oh shit, I don't have a gun. Guess I will have to continue living."

No, they will slit their wrists, hang themselves, O.D. on pills, etc....

mule

OK, you're a silly little girl

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Dirty F

This is really my last reply to you.

I am NOT gonna argue with people who compare having stairs in a house with having a gun in a house. Something you dont understand about that? Thanks.

Now go find a thread about music or the latest mj news, it will be less complicated for you.

BV

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by kmanrox


didn't your country get overthrown by the Nazi's?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------







I think he's talking about when we (Gun toting USA citizens) came in and kicked the shit out of Germany after they invaded your Country in 1940 and killed a bunch of your people and raped your women.

Dirty F

Ah i figured something like that...thanks.

theking

Nothing like stating the obvious. Other things that produce tons of deaths.

Automobiles...Motorcycles...Airplanes...Trains...B icycles...Industries...Agriculture...Mining...Fire s...etc. etc.

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jennym

I understand your reluctance to attempt an intelligent debate.

Anyway, have a nice day!

Dirty F

Once again people. If you like to shoot then by all means do so but not 1 dead by guns can be justified. Not 1.

Accident, suicide, homocide, i dont care, it happened because there was a gun available. Period.

BigFish

SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY!!! IT WAS A TRAGIC ACCIDENT. Everyday 10 people in the State of Calfornia ALONE DIES as a result of AUTOMOBILE accidents!!

mule

Battus, let's go have a beer, even theking has joined in now, I think this thread is attracting all the morons somehow

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Tala

First off, I will not be doing any name calling. It is my opinion that name calling only makes the caller look bad and tends to make his arguments seem less.

Part of what jenny said is correct, and part is not. The majority of the gun-related deaths in the United States are due to suicide. However, I don't believe they would have died anyway were they unable to get to a gun. They would have had to think it through a bit more in requirement to find a different method, which may well have saved some of their lives, though hardly all.

What Carrie said is correct. In the cities and towns throughout the US where it is required for each family to own a gun of some sort, the crime rate has dropped significantly. I don't know about you, but if I were a criminal, I sure as hell am going to avoid a town where I know everyone is armed. You break into someone's home there and chances are, you're going to get shot.

In many states of the United States, cars kill more people annually than guns. Sorry, that's a fact, and whether or not you think it's stupid bullshit is up to you. Personally, I don't give a fuck.

We were granted the right to keep and bear arms because we didn't appreciate being repressed. We also have the right to a well-organized militia and we have the right to overthrow the government in favor of something better. (No, we haven't done that yet. I have to admit, I'm kinda dreading it and kinda looking forward to it. Strange feeling, really.)

Thought to turn over for a bit: Had weapons been in the homes of the people of Nazi-occupied Europe, would the Nazis really have been able to take over?

Had weapons not been available to the people of the United States, would we still be a British territory?

Please respond ONLY on the post, and NOT as to whether or not you think I'm stupid. I really don't give two shits.


And don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to.

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Dirty F

Altho youre not my favourite gfy'er you are not stupid. Please dont place yourself next to jenny in the stupidness charts.

Everybody knows guns are not needed (except in war) but cars, trains, agriculture etc is our world, its our work, its something we need. We couldnt live witouth it out. Guns dont belong in that group. And i know you know that but for some reason prefer to act stupid.

frippeno

Blame it on guns if you want to, but keep in mind an idiot can kill with a bottle of bleach.

I'm amused at all the people coming out blaming guns. 42,000 people die in car crashes every year. Should we outlaw cars?

The guy shot into the brush? No gun would be that stupid, only a dumb mother fucking human being, of which there are millions.

And yes, guns have as much a right to exist as any tool.

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jennym

The Top Ten Causes Of Accidental Death In America

10. Machinery
Deaths per year: 350

9. Medical & Surgical Complications and Misadventures
Deaths per year: 500

8. Poisoning by gases
Deaths per year: 700

7. Firearms
Deaths per year: 1,500

6. Suffocation
Deaths per year: 3,300

5. Fires and burns
Deaths per year: 3,700

4. Drowning
Deaths per year: 4,000

3. Poisoning by solids and liquids
Deaths per year: 8,600

2. Falls
Deaths per year: 14,900
including falls from ladders, down stairs, over curbs, off buses, into manholes, and through plate glass windows.

1. Motor vehicle crashes
Deaths per year: 43,200

Looks like my kid is safer in a home with guns than one with stairs, ladders and windows.

Buff

Like I said...


People are going to murder each other or kill each other accidentally for as long as the human race exists. Guns are only one method by which this truth comes to fruition.

Some people die from vehicular incidents.
Some die from falling out of windows.
Some die from consuming toxins.
Some die from trying stupid stunts like the girl on the merry-go-round I posted about earlier.

If all guns disappeared tomorrow and could no new guns could ever be created, people would still die from accidents and murders.

I could kill you with my bare hands if I wanted to.

Buff

Better outlaw knives, swords, bows and arrows, sledgehammers, axes, and ice picks too.

Dirty F

Tala i see where you coming from and you are pointing out a problem. The problem is guns were legal in your country in the first place. Making them illegal might have a strange effect and mabye even a wrong effect. (It would still lower the amount of deads by guns tho) If your country wouldnt have allowed guns in the first place you would have a couple of 100.000 accidents a year less. Do you know what i mean?

Buff

We'd still be under the rule of the British who were supressing us with guns.

BV

BTW, I don't agree with your theory: Even if no one had guns (even criminals) then it would be too easy for thugs to pick on the elderly and women.

What if a couple of thugs broke into your grandmothers house, or your own house while you were away, wouldn't you want your wife or paramour to be able to protect themself and to have something to EQUALIZE the situation?

Dirty F

YES i know people can die because of cars and trains and knives etc. Goddamn, you people are freaking me out.
This is not a reason to allow guns!!!!

I just fucking saying guns makes killing and accidents and suicides way easier.

Our system relies on cars and fucking windows in your house. And we need knived to slice our bread....please dont be so stupid to compare this with guns.

mule

The difference is that pulling a trigger is easy. It's much easier to shoot someone than to knock their brains out with a bat, or strangle them, or stab them. Not only physically easier, but (especially) psychologically.

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jennym

Tala - I will concede the point you made on suicides. I certainly do believe that some of those people may not have killed themselves without an "immediate" way to do so.

Battus
It seems to me that many people "lived" without cars, and trains for many, many years.

My point on guns is that most people who use guns CRIMINALLY do not obtain them LEGALLY, so making them illegal really doesn't impact the criminals.

SleazyDream

you're right.


I'll reword.

you're a COMPLETE AND TOTAL FUCKING IDIOT

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Dirty F

No dude, read what i just said, we cant outlaw cars, they are needed to keep the system running. Guns ARE NOT needed except in war situations. PLEASE dude, think for a minute.

theking

I was responding to your blantantly obvious statement. Your surely are not now taking the position ("guns are not needed") that because something is not needed one should not have it?

Many people do not "need" cars but own several.

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Dirty F

Thanks, that really means something coming out of your mouth.
Great arguments! Keep it up oh smart one.

Buff

So what if it is easier or more efficient to use a gun than a claw hammer? Would you rather see the mob going around jamming cell phones with 9-1-1 dialed on them already down their victims throats until they suffocated?

baddog

shows what happens when they legalize hashish

jennym

I understand your point, I really do. But my point is that there are MANY things we could outlaw to save lives. Just because YOU enjoy those things, or they make YOUR life easier, you don't want them outlawed.

Tala

Hmmmm.....I see what you're trying to say, but ...


If guns were illegal, then only criminals would own guns. They don't give a damn about whether or not guns are legal. All they care about is getting what they want and by any means available.

Guns are not difficult to manufacture. You don't even have to have metal to do it. You can make a "gun" of sorts (ever heard of a the potato cannon?) with some PVC pipe and gunpowder.

There is no preventing guns from being available. If they're illegal, criminals will just manufacture their own or smuggle them in from somewhere else.

As far as never having made them legal in the first place, I'm sorry, but I really doubt that it would have changed much. One way or another, someone would have had a gun. It's the cookie jar syndrome. If it's not to be had, naturally we want it.

What is the military supposed to use if not guns? Would we be throwing rocks at each other, or just screaming taunts back and forth?
Scenes from Monty Python come to mind....

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Dirty F

Bv, thats the problem. Here in Holland guns are illegal and a guy robbing your house with a gun in his hand is rare, very rare.
So we dont need a gun to defend ourself. Once again, its the fact that guns are legal that is the problem in the first place. You know he might have a gun so you also want a gun.

mule

I can outrun a phone, but not a bullet, so yes

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BV

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...hoots+intruder

woman shoots intruder


9690 google results, I'm sure there are a few good reasons in there why guns for "self defense" should be kept legal.

Dirty F

Dude, didnt you see the stats i posted on the other page. Look at the difference between a country where its legal and where its no legal. Dont fool yourself. Give it a 1 min look and you'll see that you are wrong.
Ofcourse you are so used to guns because everyone and his brother has one and if they would ban guns tomorrow in the states the country would still have tons of illegal guns.
But look at a country where guns were never legal in the first place, those stats dont like dude. You can think all you want be the stats show something very different.

Buff

I, like the majority of Americans, prefer to have guns and all of the risks which surround their availability than not to have guns.

Why? What is worth that huge cost in terms of lives lost?

I want to be able to put a bullet in someone who deserves it, be it politician, criminal, child molester, invading soldier, rabbid dog, or a very wealthy old relative who just refuses to die.

SleazyDream

no better than comparing handgun deaths to car accidents.



idiot

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Dirty F

YESSSSSSSSSSS ofcourse i already answered this.

Bv, thats the problem. Here in Holland guns are illegal and a guy robbing your house with a gun in his hand is rare, very rare.
So we dont need a gun to defend ourself. Once again, its the fact that guns are legal that is the problem in the first place. You know he might have a gun so you also want a gun.

mule

LOL, that's just to attract the tourists. The majority of the clientele of coffeeshops is definitely not Dutch

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Dirty F

Huh? Who are you talking to, i was the one saying that people who compare guns to car accidents are idiots.
We all know you cant write but i guess i just found out you cant read as well.

baddog

there are places where gun ownership is required? really?

and I would venture that every state has more death due to car wrecks than handguns

Dirty F

Lets not got there, its something they will never understand.
We all smoke pot in Holland while wearing our clogs. I was waiting for a comment like this. Its pathetic, lets ignore it.

BV

You are missing my point here Bat, your mom, or wife can not defend herself against a big mean criminal with a knife or club can she? most could not anyways......


..... a .357 in hand would even the odds though.

theking

Well...maybe you are.

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Dirty F

Ok we had 10 people saying now there are more people dying because of car accidents than gun accidents.

Whats next, someone whos gonna say more people die because of a huge earthquake than of guns???

Fuck this makes me so tired. I already said it ten times now. Cars is something we need in this world, guns are not.
Same with knives, same with windows you can fall out of, same with tootpicks you can use to stab someones eye out.

Please stop comparing car accidents with having guns. Its sooooooooooooo non related.

jennym

So, even in wonderful Holland where guns are illegal, the criminals still have them if they want them? Hmmm....makes ya' wonder.

Dirty F

Exactly! Good point! This is why the robber will enter the house with a gun. This is why the person who didnt have a gun before now will buy a gun because he knows the robber will have a gun...etc.

jennym

So, you say people cannot live without cars? It happened for many 100's of years but, whatever.

How about if the law is changed so that all cars are made will roll bars, no radios (which distract people), and no car can go over 40 mph. Would that be ok with you since it would save a few lives?

BV

Dam check this out Bat, lots of good reasons:

http://womentoarms.net/had_gun2.html