Greg B

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biz....ap/index.html


Yep, we save the world by paying other people.

pamphage

"Often, the American workers being replaced are called upon to train their overseas replacements. The same will be expected of IBM employees whose jobs are being transferred, according to the Journal. "

poor guys. "come train our monkeys before you leave or no severance, biatch."

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Nickless

what do you mean?

acctman

americans are lazy works, might as well go to another country that will work harder and for less. all my custom projects have been designed by non-americans. better work, and things get done on time.

Rich

Woohoo, keep killing that economy, forgien workers are GREAT FOR AMERICA!!!

Winnipeg Bills here we come.

Furious_Male

Some big named insurance company and AOL have an office building in India. AOL outsources a lot of the tech support there. I recall all the details off the top of my head but a lot of companies are headed over there.

sad

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Furious_Male

You tell that to the American farmer, Iron worker, or any blue collar man busting his ass. My father has worked his ass of in a stone quarray 80+ hours a week for 30+ years. Hes fighting lung cancer now and still puts in a full work week. Fucking pussies like you dont have a clue you piece of shit.

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FuckFind

fucking depressing

ya its awesome until my roommate isn't getting a job because of this bullshit



he watched 22 positions get filled by 20 "out of country workers"


and he's a smart and talented individual.........



and today i watched an "out of country" individual inspect a computer for cookies without even knowning what they were, call it american, call it what you will


in a way, its bullshit




FF

Rich

Aren't you a Bush supporter? Either you're lying about your Dad or you're the biggest fucking retard who's ever had a political affiliation.

Furious_Male

No I am not a Bush supporter. Perhaps you are thinking of Furious_Female.

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the Shemp

Bangalore, India is a hotbed of computer programing and development.

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Greg B

Tuesday, December 16, 2003

Activists fear local IBM job losses coming
Report: 4,730 total moving overseas
By Craig Wolf
Poughkeepsie Journal

A report that IBM Corp. plans to move 4,730 high-paying programming jobs from America to cheaper countries is just part of more to come, labor activists said Monday.
That picture includes Poughkeepsie, said a story Monday in the Wall Street Journal, which attributed the word to internal documents labeled ''Global Sourcing.''

But it will get worse, perhaps 30,000 to 40,000 jobs by the end of 2005, if Lee Conrad's sources point in the right direction, as they often have. Conrad is lead organizer for the Alliance@IBM, a unit of the Communications Workers of America.

He said Monday the trend is becoming a crisis not just for workers but for the American economy.

''We should start discussing concerted activity to stop this flow of our jobs being offshored,'' Conrad said.

The paper's story said the ''offshoring'' would come in 2004 and the company has already hired 500 engineers in India who will get some of the early work in a group called Application Management Services, part of IBM Global Services, which contains half of the company's 315,000 employees.

Also on the hit list are Southbury, Conn.; Raleigh, N.C.; and Boulder, Colo., the paper said, citing company documents on the initiative.

James Sciales, spokesman for IBM Global Services, wouldn't confirm the group in question or its locations, but said it provides management of software applications much in the same way IBM provides data processing to clients. This could include things like old ''legacy'' programs where IBM would update and maintain and modernize those applications for a client.

But on the reports of major offshoring, IBM offered no confirmation, no denial and no details.

This statement was given by Sciales:

''While we do not comment on internal presentations or projections, the vast majority of the growth in application services that will occur in markets like India, China and Latin America will result from winning new contracts, especially in high-growth areas like Business Transformation Outsourcing.''

''We expect our hiring next year in the U.S. to equal or increase over 2003 levels. In fact, on a percentage basis, our forecast is for hiring across the Americas to outpace the hiring in the rest of the world,'' he said.

''The Americas,'' in IBM-speak, includes the Western Hemisphere, and does not mean just U.S. jobs.

IBM also has conducted hiring simultaneously with mass layoffs.

''It's a big smokescreen,'' Conrad said. ''They cut a bunch of people here and buy up another company there.''

While no authoritative data is available on the numbers, schedules and locations of jobs to be lost to offshoring, the reports are not at odds with IBM's own statements.

Offshoring called key strategy

Even the CEO and chairman, Samuel Palmisano, has stated that offshoring is a key part of the strategy for keeping IBM competitive.

In May, Palmisano told analysts of his trip to Bangalore, India, where IBM has a software center in that low-cost country.

''We already have several thousand people in these jurisdictions,'' Palmisano said, adding IBM was ''expanding like crazy.''

He also saw potential ''in these lower-cost labor markets to create a huge business process outsourcing business.''

On Oct. 30, Palmisano told the Council on Competitiveness in Washington, that China, India, South Korea and other rapidly developing nations are replicating the structural advantages that the U.S. had.

''It is important to understand that these nations are becoming very competitive -- and not just in wage differentials,'' Palmisano said.

According to International Data Corp., foreign workers performed about 5 percent of information technology services for American companies in 2003, but will grow share to 23 percent by 2007.

GTS Mark

So in other words they are firing 4700 people who are being paid 60K+ a year. And hiring 4700 new offshore people for about the same price as 2 full time positions per year.

Smart move

DH

Dash

this country is so f*cked up its not even funny 4700 americans jobless(and many potentially homeless) because corps want to get a little richer. Unions used to prevent these type of things, but $$ just screwed everything up.

fsfaz

It is pretty stupid.


I was on the phone with AOL support the night for a friend trying to get his password reset. The tech support team was based in India. They were talking like they were reading off a card and when I interrupted her (that she was wrong about something) she went off the handle.

Then, she went into the same scripted speech. I was like "Hello?" "Do you speak any English?"

Worse conversation I had in some time. (I've lived in NY and reside in LA)

Sad this is how things are ending up ... not only for support but for the Americans loosing their jobs.

Why

didnt dell do the same thing not to long ago?

Theo

India is about to become the new silicon valley as I keep saying.

stocktrader23

That has nothing to do with todays society. I've been trying to get help on internet stuff for fucking years. 90% of people you run in to are lazy bastards who expect the world. I hired a guy through outsourcing earlier this month and it's the best fucking thing I ever did. Hard working, dependable, and does what I ask without questioning me.

Edit: Oh yea, he speaks and comprehends English better than 99% of this board.

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Theo

lol

Nas7782

Globalization. The New World Order. There's no borders or nationalism involve here. The only thing that matter is the pursuit of PROFIT. Big corporate CEOs sit on the same board as ones in the U.S., one in Europe, one in China and so forth. To them, there's no patriotism to one country. Profits travel throughout the glove.

Horray for boobies.

kiwi

America is making a strategic trade off - some disposable low-level IT jobs in return for being allowed to sell its subsidized farm exports to India.

It's a fair exchange - Indian farmers are priced out of the market by American produce, as opposed to entry level American tech support being laid off.

candidpublishinginc

I'm not sure why all you guys are whining. This is capitalism at work, deal with it. Besides most of you are self employed anyway so what's the big deal? You guys should like Globalization, I know I do.

For the record all of my programmers are based in the Ukraine. 10 programmers there cost me as much as one American programmer, so why not?

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acctman

Foreigners are smarter than Americans in the IT, Programming and in computer in general. Everyone in the US wants to be in the Computer field yet they have no motivation, knowledge to be in the field. Just the fact that money is there isn't enough. Have you ever watched TV during the day, tons of trade schools offering a 4 month IT diaploma or a 2yr college degree. You have people that just know the basics, that have never used a computer before till going through a quick school session.

Some of the best webmaster scripts we us are made by foreigners. we can sit here an debate this all day, but some of the top fortune 100 companies are relying on techs in other countries. Money may play a factor but, they've researched and are hiring the best alternative.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

We thought up this shit.
We sell this shit.
We own this shit.

The world buys it lock stock and barrel, and while the world is buying that up we are already thinking ahead.

Let IBM go out like NIKE and ADIDDAS... Its no big thing.
Keep hating America...
But you love us at the same time.

The Irony of it all...
You drink Coca Cola while spitting out , "I hate America..."
You wear Levi's dispising our philosophy.
You blame America for your misery and yet love our Music and Art's...
You hate America so much, yet happily take our job's and we happily give them to you...

It's a shame, really it is. I have never gottin around to disliking foriegn individual's, I always thought the more minds the better to solve problems...

These days though...
Every ones got an opinion, but hey the way I see it...

Why don't ya go sound off about your own country and slam it for its policies, call your leaders fuck heads and degenerates...

Ya would be shot, or imprisoned, but in America people would just call you politically eccentric.

Taste freedom, its not a fasion like everyone thinks.

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acctman

Japan is far more advance in computer technology than America.

adultwebware

looks like they are just lowering their expences. a normal practice.

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adjektiv

I had to call the power company to get some things changed for my house and their phones were outsourced to India. The woman said "how is the climate today?" I almost died laughing.
She then told me I had to give some kind of deposit (bullshit) and I laughed really hard and hung up and got someone else.
= India

mrthumbs

he was talking about americans in general, not your father.

Furious_Male

And I am talking about Americans in general. I was just using my father as an example. There are more hard working americans then not. But its just easy to bash us and call us lazy just because a webmaster on GFY outsources some tech projects out of the country. Big fucking deal. For as many of you that have had problems with "lazy americans" others have had problems with scamming, lazy foreigners as well.

Outsourcing overseas is common practice now to save money. Some companies may have to do it just to survive. Sure some of the countries have skilled people that can handle the job as well as his american counter part. But try calling a geico or AOL call center. See if you get the service you deserve.

That can be debated forever. All I am trying to say is the Majority of American workers ARE NOT lazy. If you think they are youve been behind a key board just a bit to long.

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loverboy

let's admit that there are more qualified/skillful workers outside the US, so what's the fuss all about? If a company wishes to
outsource their employees somewhere else, its just that
they see some opportunities from other countries aside from
the US and it will save them Millions of $$$. Outsourcing comes
from 85% from India which offers one of the cheapest labor
force in Asia.

Eve

It's sad that you have to wade through the proletariat hoohaa's to see an intelligent post like this. Good one Kiwi

deniska

yhea lets outsource more jobs to a slave economy like India..

Rich

You're right I was, sorry.

Don't know how I made that mistake.