Second hand smoke does not kill. Get up to date on your research. Unless you're blowing it into the face of someone who has severe asthma you're not damaging their lungs in any way.

Think about how many carcinogens go through your tailpipe in your car every day. Think about all the ones in the food you give your kids and in pretty much everything else that humans consume. It's all a matter of which kind of cancer they're going to get when they're 80.

:1orglaugh

Nonsense. There are mountains of documents proving the health risks of second hand smoke. You're just buying into the Philip Morris disinformation campaign.

Because milk's oh so healthy :1orglaugh

Does anyone seem to care about this fact...I refer to an earlier post that is scientificaly true, I might add...

"So it takes 40-60 years of smoking a pack of cigarettes a day to get cancer and die usually. That means 20 times a day you inhale a whole cigarettes worth of thick, pure smoke. Inhaling about 1/1000th of the smoke particles from one of those cigarettes a day is going to kill you after how many years?"

So according to your logic we should not bother doing anything because we're all going to get cancer one way or another. That's very progressive. Congratulations on your inovative thinking.

BTW, second hand smoke does kill. Don't believe the hype.

Whoa. That is so 1984 (Orwellian).

Dude, you fuckin scare the shit outta me.

It is not the government's responsibility to keep me healthy. It is my responsibility, just as it is yours to keep yourself healthy.

According to the most recent 2001 statistics from the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), 7.2% of U.S. adults have current asthma. Massachusetts is the state with the highest rate of self-reported asthma at 9.5%, Maine and Rhode Island are next at 9.4%, and all the New England states have higher than average rates. (See www.cdc.gov )

Asthma is the most common chronic childhood disease and affects more than one child in every fifteen under the age of 18.

The cost of asthma in 2000 was estimated to be $20 billion, exceeding the combined total costs of AIDS and tuberculosis.

Approximately 18 million Americans suffer from asthma, and 6 million of those people are under the age of 18.


Among children ages 5 to 17, asthma is the leading cause of school absences from a chronic illness and is responsible for more hospitalizations than any other childhood disease.

Asthma also accounts for about 1.8 million emergency room visits and 10 million doctors' office visits a year.

Each day 14 Americans die from asthma.



Tobacco smoke triggers asthma symptoms and makes people with asthma more vulnerable to attacks.

Tobacco smoke harms 50 million Americans with asthma and allergies.

Exposure to tobacco smoke worsens symptoms of asthma in 200,000 to 1 million children.

Is it the government's responsibility to protect you from some nutcase spraying anthrax onto a crowded subway platform you are standing on? What's the difference?

Here's a study by the World Health Organization in 1999 on the effects of second hand smoke on children http://www.smoke-free.ca/pdf_1/whoreportchart.PDF

So don't bring your kids to a bar and don't sit them in the smoking section or near it.

From the Cato Institute:

"It now turns out that the influential 1993 EPA report "Respiratory Health Effects of Passive Smoking: Lung Cancer and Other Disorders" was as phony as a three-dollar bill. State officials and private businesses that believed that ETS was a public health danger (and not just a nuisance) were completely misled by the EPA. And, of course, so was main street American public opinion."

http://www.cato.org/dailys/9-28-98.html


50 smokescreens

The impact of second-hand smoke on kids health

Second-hand smoke (which is sometimes called environmental tobacco smoke or ETS) contains toxic substances, over 40 of which cause cancer. Some of these substances are in stronger concentrations in second-hand smoke than they are in the smoke that goes directly into smokers? lungs.

ETS is causally linked with a number of adverse health effects in children (under 18), including:

lower respiratory tract infections (i.e. croup, bronchitis and pneumonia)
increased fluid in the middle ear
upper respiratory tract irritation
reduced lung function
additional episodes of asthma
increased severity of asthmatic symptoms in children
reduced oxygen flow to tissues, comparable to children with anemia, cyanotic heart disease or chronic lung disease ?
ETS is also associated with:

Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS)
acute middle ear infections (otitis media)
tonsillectomy
meningococcal infections
cancers and leukemias in childhood
slower growth
adverse neurobehavioural effects
upper respiratory tract infections (colds and sore throats)
unfavorable cholesterol levels and initiation of atherosclerosis (heart disease) ?
A British study found that SIDS deaths could be reduced by two-thirds if parents did not smoke.***

A U.S. analysis** of over 100 reports on pædiatric diseases concluded that children?s exposure to tobacco smoke is responsible for up to:

13% of ear infection
(approximately 220,000 ear infections in Canadian children)*

26% of tympanostomy tube insertions
(approximately 16,500 in Canada)

24% of tonsillectomies and adenoidectomies
(approx. 2,100 Canadian operations)

13% of asthma cases
(approx. 52,200 cases in Canada)

16% of physician visits for cough
(approx. 200,000 visits in Canada)

20% of all lung infections in children under 5
(approx. 43,600 cases of bronchitis in Canada and 19,000 cases of pneumonia in Canada)

136-212 childhood deaths from lower respiratory infection
(approx. 13-20 in Canada)

148 childhood deaths from fires started by tobacco products
(approx. 15 in Canada)

1868-2708 SIDS deaths?
(approx. 180-270 in Canada)

That's fine. I can agree with that. Don't debate the science of second hand smoke though.

The cato institute is a right wing think tank that would kill the EPA if it could.. nice bias.

Haha the cato institute

:1orglaugh At least pick a credible source!

Further information:

http://www.smokingsection.com/issues1.html


And since we've now turned to our illustrious governmental bullshit, keep in mind how corrupt our government truly is and think seriously abouthow much you support those who are in charge when they do something that not on your particular agenda. My hypocrisy only goes so far, how about yours?

From the center for disease control 2003.

Smoking is good for you.

Walter P. Smokealot

That's propaganda, hit us with some hard science.

And on that note, I'm leaving this thread.

There is nothing to be achieved here and I'm just getting angry. Enjoy yourselves.

It almost depends on how busy the bar is, one or two smokers at a time isn't going to do too much.. but going to see a gig in a small pub where you are shoulder to shoulder and there are 50 smokers in the room sucks. Your eyes sting. drunk idiots dance with lit cigarettes burning people.

they need serious extractor fans to cope with that shit.

I agree, the governments are coprrupt. Tobacco companies have deep pockets and therefore keep the government from banning smoking completely, as they should be doing.

Love life Tala. It's all fun and games until someone loses a lung :winkwink:

Smoking in pubs and clubs is banned now in Australia as far as I
know.... When we were kids we'd be able to sit in the "milk bar"
and smoke all we like... Now I'm a second class citizen.... Sure if I
was quiting it'd make it easier, but they've done a good job on
me and I'm not quiting anytime soon.


How about we ban stupid people from breeding... or...
We could ban ugly chicks from going outdoors....

I like those ideas much better.

-Ben

people didn't choose to be stupid or ugly.

PS. I'm making the balcony a no smoking area.

http://www.davehitt.com/facts/truth.html

read.

Take your own advice, and quit worrying so much about other peoples choices. Sorry, I know that sounds bad even though I don't really mean it that way...

It's all fun and games until someone loses a hug.

Life isn't about health and longevity, it's about love and satisfaction and who you help.

Blah blah blah fucking BLAH on and on you all go arguing and squirming. Fact is, anti-smoking bylaws are here, period. Don't like it? Tough shit. Anyone who has worked in a hospital in any front-line health care capacity for more than a few years will tell you what smoking does to people and their families. Argue all you want, only a fool argues with reality.


How hard can it be? You want to smoke, just go to where you aren't going to bother anyone and light up. It ain't rocket science. Remember, YOUR right to pollute yourself ends where my breathing space begins. Again, don't like it? Tough titty baby. I have no problem with you killing yourself, just don't try taking me with you.


And quit being such retards about it. Like I said, the laws are here, and they are going to get stricter, not lesser. Deal with it.

Hey when did I get a chance to choose?

Back when I was 5 all my peers smoked.

When I was 10 everyones hero was the guys in the smoke
commercials and every sporting event was sponsored by tobacco.

When I was 15 every single social gathering was based on
smoking. The time you saw your friends all together and had fun
was when you were running off to smoke.

When I was 20 it was a great way to kill time and lower stress.
Everyone hang at pubs and smoking was a big part of being
there.

When I was 25 the population smoking dropped under 50% and
now I'm the source of all these peoples problems. Venues and
music changed. Smoking is a thing only older stupid people and
young girls do now. We choose to smoke just so that we can
annoy none smokers.

Look I hate tobacco as much as the next guy.... but I smoke...
and I have that right.... This thread is "public places". In Australia
it's already banned in most places. If it's banned on the street.....
Well nicotine withdrawal can be a pretty angry thing.

-Ben

CD,

I usually agree with you, but what gives non-smokers the right to go and breath where I am smoking? lol

Where I have always smoked? If you want clean air, go where I am not. Just like guns, you will never get rid of the American's desire for them or the right they feel in owning them. Ban alcohol (AGAIN) it still won't get you an alcohol free environment. Ban drugs...oh, I guess they have already done that and is doesn't work either...talk about getting with reality...

Just Remember, YOUR right to bitch ends where my smoking space begins. Go somewhere else, don't take away all the places I like to go to. That is not fair either. It is a part of my everyday life. I say just ban it in tightly enclosed spaces where there may be a REAL health issue. Not just because some asshole doesn't like the smell.

if your friends jumped off a cliff...

sorry I had to lol.

"Venues and music changed. Smoking is a thing only older stupid people and young girls do now. "

In most places in America, bars and smoking is still an active part of the scene. Only in resort towns, and places like California, etc have the anti smoking laws started to really affect people. I know of one restraunt that had to reinstate the smoking section because they were going out of business because the smokers refused to go there.

These people who live in california (The heart of environmental issues, to be nice about it) and in sections of some other cities; Golden Colorado, (and many others) think where they live is like every other part of America, but sadly, they are mistaken.

It has never been allowed in furniture stores, etc where you could seriously damage property (Funny how they set property value above human life). There are just some places I really feel they should leave the choice up to the person. Alcohol and smoking are synonamous, both are a serious health risk and both people try to outlaw. At least leave us drinkers alone with our pack of smokes. Let us kill ourselves if we want to. Young drinkers are much more likely to kill themself driving than we are with a cigarette. So you young drinkers that don't like the smoke, drink at home where you're safe and mom and dad can watch over you.

lol

dude when you were five??? maybe going to the catholic primary school actually had it's benefits.. I didn't see or try cigs till junior high.

Screw the smokers :thumbsup

I hate to say it, but smoking is a sign of weakness. If you smoke, despite all the knowledge we have about the harm it does, you either have a death wish, or you're just not strong enough to quit. Hide behind nonsense like you having a right to smoke all you want, the truth is you either need a backbone, or therapy :evil-laug

You really didn't have to get personal about it...and I don't deny I need therapy, but it's not about smoking...I have to stand up to drunks and assholes everyday of my life and make tough decisions, the last thing you would say if you actually knew me was that I don't have backbone or willpower.

The degree of addiction comes into play as well as willpower. Some can quit, for others it is as strong as heroin. That is also a medical fact. Why don't you just go and cut off your arm to prove how manly you are. Makes as much sense. God I hate pretentious, arrogant people.

I hate second hand smoke. It's makes you feel like farting down smoker's throats to give them a taste of their own medicine.

At least that opinion I can respect.

Easy tiger. I wasn't getting personal with you. I was speaking in general terms. But the fact that you got so pissed off means you know I'm right. The truth is it doesn't have anything to do with smokers' rights. Smoking is a health risk. Period. And knowing what we know about smoking and the related health risks, why on earth would anybody smoke? And why on earth would anybody argue in favour of smoking?