Oh, and your numbers are wrong too.

The M16 has a maximum effective range of 800m for an area target and 550m for a point target. Just because you pogues only go up to 300m at the range doesn't mean that's the MER.



http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/at...-22.9/t2_1.jpg

G36?

I carried an M16 for four fucking years. Not ONCE did it jam on me.

the M16 is a superior weapon. Better ammo and much more accurate than the AK47. But you have to keep it clean. If you can't field strip and clean your weapon, you shouldn't be in the fight.

If I even remotley thought you were special Id scan my old active duty id card that clearly shows what MOS I was...


Go back to learning how to dos sites kid.

Actually since 1985 or so they are. Forward observers are 3 man teams. We blow shit up way the fuck out in front of ANYONE.


Many Rangers are forward observers, and many forward observers are rangers. But ALL Forward observers ARE Pathfinders.


Is it me or do alot of kids just dream shit up.


Go read about Forward Observers before you spout off to one.

Well...actually there is only one Special Forces and that is the Army's Special Forces...all of the others you named fall under Special Operations Forces.

And yes, the Marine Recon unit is "the" marine 'special forces"



How many of these fucking people play counterstrike or some shit and believe it and then post on here.

Get a grip already. If you dont know dont post.

Hey bitch, listen up. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Forward observers are NOT special forces. I was in Special Forces from 1991-1997. And Pathfinder was discontinued for several years, and was only recently reinstated.

If you didn't wear a black or green beret back in the day, you weren't special forces. A Ranger Tab just means you went to Ranger School. You have to be in Bat to be considered Special Forces as a Ranger. Hundreds of pogue officers have their Ranger Tabs and work in dipshit remf units, you fuck.

Get your learn on, moron: http://www.soc.mil/

I do not know what you think being a Pathfinder has to to do with being an FO. Pathfinders are Airborne and have specific functions.

"Originally established in England during WWII, the US army Pathfinder School is located at FT. Benning's Lillyman Hall. Potential pathfinders spend approximately three weeks learning and practicing their new skills. When the US Air Force assumed the combat air traffic control duties in 1951, the school was closed. In 1955, the school was reopened under the Airborne-Air Assault branch of the Infantry School. It continues to operate to this day. During the course students are taught basic air traffic control techniques; drop zone marking techniques; how to use computed air release points (CARPs); the ground marking release system; the Army Aircraft Verbal Initiated Release System and the proper use of the PIBALL weather balloon, to measure mean effective wind.

Today's Pathfinders are trained in airborne, small boat, vehicle, foot, and sometimes free fall infiltration techniques. These small four man teams may be parachuted in up to 72 hours in advance of the main assault force. They provide DZ/LZ surveys; site security; initial aircraft guidance, and mark and clear drop zones for follow-on forces. They are capable of engaging in demolition operations to clear DZ/LZ's of obstacles. If equipped with laser targeting devices (LTD) they may also designate targets of opportunity for air strikes. Pathfinders may be expected to coordinate aircraft movement, control parachute drops of personnel and equipment, conduct sling-load operations and provide initial weather information to commanders."

Rangers are not Special Forces...Rangers fall under Special Operation Forces...as does the Army's Special Forces. FYI...the Patfinders have been active continuosly since 1955 as stated above.

It is the Corps Force Recon...not Battalion Recon units...that is "equivilent" to Army Special Forces. To my knowledge the Corp only has one company of Force Recon per Division and they only have two active Division's (full strength) the third one is basically a paper Division.

To add my :2 cents: to the AK-47 and M-16 debate. The M16- used today is not the same M-16 as was used in Vietnam...and is very reliable...if maintained properly. I have fired in the thousands of rounds and have only had a jam maybe a half dozen times...no biggy...easily cleared...to carry on. The AK-47 may possibly be the best Assault Rifle ever made in the numbers made...in its simplicity and reliability.

Jessica Lynch belonged to a supply unit. The only weapons training that they had was probably what they received in their eight weeks of Basic. They may or may not have even made the rifle range once per year. Weapons use and maintinance was not a major part of their MOS's. In addition they had been in a sand storm and more than likely did not clean their weapons for the ready. The Army needs to learn a lesson from this...and adopt the doctrine of the Corp...every marine in theory is a Rifleman first and other duties are secondary...but even in the Corp for the most part that is in "theory".

Pathfinder School was shut down through most of the 90s. Sorry, that's a fact.

I would be interested to know more about this...are you aware that the school itself has not been one cycle out and new cycle in...the school itself has been cyclic in nature...in other words not run on a contiguous basis..they have often operated the school on a needs basis. That does not alter the fact that Pathfinders have been continuously active since 1955 and have been trained as needed.

I also know that the school was being operated in the '90's as several of my friends son's attended the school. The last to attend was a Ranger and I believe he attended around four to five years ago. He is now a W-2 and a rotary wing pilot.

I'll see if I can find you a link, but the Pathfinder badge was discontinued in the early 90s and they switched from having "pathfinder" courses to having "commando" camp kind of shit. Then, like 4 years ago, they started running pathfinder courses again.

But the whole point is that just having a pathfinder badge does not mean one is special forces.

Of course a Pathfinder badge does not make one a member of the Army's Special Forces...nor does wearing a Ranger Tab...nor does wearing a Ranger Tab make one a member of Special Operations Forces. Many of the Army's Special Forces though...do wear a Pathfinder badge as well as A Ranger Tab.

How about some fine Canadian products:
http://www.diemaco.com/

I prefer M16

just looks so much better

100 :ak47:

100 Assault Rifles

bastard

ak is for towelees who cant aim for a shit. (no need to try to aim with the ak).

colt, on the other hand.... accuracy.

sorry dude, but your 4mins late :1orglaugh

You all talk about how good m16 is if you keep it nice and clean.
Of course it doesnt jam during practice shooting when you clean it after every use.


The thing jams when you're out in the desert or in the jungle. When there is war going on around and you simply dont have the time or mean to clean it. In the middle of the battle it gets some sand or some water inside and all of the sudden it stops working. Thats when it makes a difference.

I didn't know dangerous weapon was so cheap..:eek2

I go with the M-16 in counter strike..of course that's without sand
:)

didnt read any of thread

fuck guns

:321GFY

I just love these Dark Jedi threads. Nice formula.

1) Have sig ready

2) Post mildly inflammatory or taunting subject line

3) push along with in your face follow up posts

4) watch page views to sig skyrocket


:winkwink: :thumbsup :thumbsup

It is a reliable weapon...even under adverse conditions. I have used the weapon in three different operations and it did not jam in any of the three...and I would not hesitate to take it into battle again. Even if it does jam...it is a simple matter of clearing it. In the Jessica Lynch incident...as I have pointed out in a previous post...they were supply troops and simply were not well trained in the use of weapons. If I remember correctly...during her interview it was mentioned that a .50 cal jammed...and the gunner could not clear it. As I further stated the Army should learn a lesson from this incident and put a priority on training non-combatant units to be more proficient in the use...and maintinance of weapons.

:)

didnt read this whole thread but has anybody seen the documentary m16 vs. ak47? In my opinion each weapon has its pluses and minuses but like everything else it depends on the individual who uses the weapon! M16 precise weapon vs. ak-47 more of a all around rifle easy to use!

Guns are cool.

I have a gun.

I am cool.

:2 cents:

I would take my M1 Carbine over those anyday. Talk about accuracy? 1 shot 1 kill:glugglug

Yes, I am aware -- I was in SF ;)

Badges I was authorized:

CIB
Halo
Scuba
Air Assault
Master Parachutist

Tabs:

Special Forces on top
Ranger in the middle
and of course Airborne on the bottom over the SF unit patch (I was 20th Group)

Usually only wore my SF tab over the airborne/sf patch and the CIB and airborne badge

I disagree though. I hated the M16 and it has a built in forward assist for the bolt, which never really works anyway, because if you have keep pounding it to move the bolt forward, you know that shit ain't gonna fire -- that just indicates a design flaw to me.

I never really had a problem with the M4A1, which is pretty much the same wep only smaller, but the best weapon for reliabilty we use is the SAW. That mofo fires no matter what (maybe have to wipe off the feed tray once in a while, and it's more accurate for a point target than the M16. Try using the a mag with one round our a belt with one round and you'll see that bitch can hit a point way the fuck out there.

And where do you get your information from?

My M16 never jammed in Jungle Warfare School. Thats in the tropical rain jungles of Panama. Never, not once did it jam.

In October of 93 I was in a CONTINOUS 6 hour battle in Mogadishu. Thats a desert climate. Not 1 jam. Nada. Zip. Good thing or I probably wouldnt be here.

The only time I can remember my weapon jamming was during LightFighters school at Ft Drum, February of 91, its was -36F outside and too damn cold to be fighting or training anyway.

It was common routine for us to train to disassemble and reassemble our wepons blindfolded. And not just the M16, but the M60, M2 and Mk19.

How much experiance do you have with any weapon in a combat enviroment?

dude he has NO live experience, talkin out his ass. We used them in 30 below weather and if it did freeze up we just pissed on it and it was back in action:ak47:

I have an MP-5


I looooooooooooooooooooooooove it

OF COURSE YOU WERE.

It always seems when someone is losing an argument that HEY were one of the thing being argued about...


:1orglaugh