Free sites will be illegal??? Supreme court - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

Furious_Female · 10-15-2003, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
so to sum up.....

TUPAC IS ALIVE

East coast!!!!!

Theo · 10-15-2003, 03:32 AM

sexeducation · 10-15-2003, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
Exactly. The disappearance of free sites is not the problem. The fact that no age verification system exists is the problem.

yep ...
right on the money.

Quote:

Germany has means of verifying age online (two devices that hook to your computer) - why dont we?!? [/B]

Didn't know that ...
have a link to any info?

Mr.Fiction · 10-15-2003, 03:48 AM

Pro-censorship is anti-American.

The internet is not for kids, it is for adults.

Tipsy · 10-15-2003, 04:23 AM

Interesting diplays of a total lack of logic and the inability to understand both supply and demand and basic marketing.

I'm highly doubtful this will happen in the near future but makes for an interesting and often amusing thread.

Slick · 10-15-2003, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
Pro-censorship is anti-American.

The internet is not for kids, it is for adults.

I agree with you 100%

brazz · 10-15-2003, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
do you really think that the end of free sites will be the only step? People that support censorship DO NOT HAVE LIMITS.

If you want your kids to not access porn, you should monitor his/her online activities. Studies have showed that kids are not affected negative by porn. Who hasn't watch porn in young age?

Behind such attempts you'll see hypocrites and blind religious freaks.

I agree.

Today:
"-Let´s protect our kids. Let´s shut down all porn."
"-Wait, shutting down ALL porn will create turmoil and resistance. Why don´t we start with those small free sites? We have a good excuse, and those sites are run by individuals who will make the least noise."
The paysite owners get happy.

Tomorrow:
"-Hey, doesn´t the Bible say that porn is a sin? And, oh my God, there are people trying to MAKE MONEY selling sin? Where´s that law of last year which restricted porn? These sinners never learn, let´s add some ammendments to the law, let´s protect our families, let´s...".
The same paysite owners see how difficult is to put boundaries to censorship.

Gunni · 10-15-2003, 08:29 AM

How about the government would just put a PG stamp on the whole internet, like they do with movies!!

It is not our responsbility to make sure kids do not see our stuff, like it is not Hollywoods responability to make sure minors do not see their films!

There are programs out there that limit access to the internet, and if you don´t want your kids to see porn, simply buy those programs!!!

Wizzo · 10-15-2003, 08:41 AM

There was a point and time that Thehun was just a listing of paysite tours...

mailman24 · 10-15-2003, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chodadog
They want to make sites with no age verification illegal, yet there's no way to verify the age of a surfer (as per Visa's ruling about using credit cards as a means of age verification). So technically, wouldn't that make all adult sites in the US illegal?

I reckon the whole problem could be solved by adding a date of birth field to the credit card forms. Visa, mastercard.. they've all got that shit on file.

Actually there are ways to verify age using a government issued ID in the US. If you google "age verification" there are 3 companies which provide it, Paymentech, CyberSource and VerifyME.

Secondly, as we have all seen, Visa, MC et al have zero interest in verify ages for adult transactions. I am simply surprised that no one in our community even bothers to look for these services.

Greg B · 10-15-2003, 09:14 AM

Look, let's face the goalie and get to the puck.

The adult side of the web is a strong force to be reckoned with. The commerce dept. is the be all decision maker of the web anyhow in the U.S.

Even if the Supreme Court and even the friggin' Justice League

came up with a way to censor this or that, another country would spring up with their own form of the web and everyone would run to them to get their smut. There are countries chomping at the bit to be the new web hub.

All ya need is phone lines and puters which there ain't no shortage of.

The web is making way too much money for everybody and it's biggest attraction is SMUT. Plain and simple.

So what can be done? Whatever can be done had better be done fast as new technologies are ready to launch within the next two years.

It all boils down to taking responsibility on all fronts to make the web safe and lucrative. Since not everyone is going to play along we may well see quite the fight ahead. Problem? The U.S., Britain and the allied countries can crack down on only their citizens but that would just push that very profitable section of the web into the hands of foreign groups who have no ethics. Would make em' stinkin' rich overnight.

Will be interesting to see what happens in the next year or so.

12clicks · 10-15-2003, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Greg B
Look, let's face the goalie and get to the puck.

The adult side of the web is a strong force to be reckoned with.

I didn't read past here. your first statement is wrong. how could what follows have merit?

Kingfish · 10-15-2003, 09:24 AM

I think it always helps to look at the relevant law

Quote:

COPA authorizes the imposition of criminal and civil penalties on any person who "knowingly and with knowledge of the character of the material, in interstate or foreign commerce by means of the World Wide Web, makes any communication for commercial purposes that is available to any minor and that includes any material that is harmful to minors." 47 U.S.C. 231(a)(1). A person communicates "for commercial purposes" only if he "is engaged in the business of making such communications," 47 U.S.C. 231(e)(2)(A), and a person is engaged in the business of making such communications only if he "devotes time, attention, or labor" to making harmful-to-minors communications "as a regular course of [his] trade or business, with the objective of earning a profit as a result of such activities." 47 U.S.C. 231(e)(2)(B).

This would effectively kill all free sites, search engine listings, and so on. The search engines will simply quit listing porn/Adult sites.

Quote:

COPA defines "material that is harmful to minors" as "any communication, picture, image, graphic image file, article, recording, writing, or other matter of any kind" that is "obscene" or that
(A) the average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find, taking the material as a whole and with respect to minors, is designed to appeal to, or is designed to pander to, the prurient interest;
(B) depicts, describes, or represents, in a manner patently offensive with respect to minors, an actual or simulated sexual act or sexual contact, an actual or simulated normal or perverted sexual act, or a lewd exhibition of the genitals or post-pubescent female breast; and
(C) taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors.

Note the inclusion of the term ?writing? if you?re a pay site owner you won?t even be able to include a description of what someone gets if they buy a membership to your site. And it has that horrible community standards test. For example if your free content would be found to be in violation of the community standards in Utah, it would be illegal everywhere because people could access it from Utah. Only the standard with the COPA test is much more restrictive. It is would horny 14 and 15 year old boys find that your free tour sexually excites them? If so your free tour, would have to be behind an age verification scheme.

Carrie · 10-15-2003, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
<< I find 100% responsible the parent of a kid regarding his online activities and that's about it. >>

This is all well and good, but idealistic and unrealistic.
When a parent is sitting with their child doing a search for something and the first thing popping up on the screen in bold letters is that term surrounded by "ASS-RIPPING HARDCORE ANAL SEX CUM WHORES" then it's meaningless for the parent to be there, isn't it? The child has already seen that nasty phrase (and the associated description coupled with it) and the cat is out of the bag.

I agree that parents should surf with children. But thanks to the hordes of unethical webmasters who will use any and every popular term they can find to spam the SEs with their shit, IT DOESN'T CURE THE PROBLEM.

BlackCrayon · 10-15-2003, 09:51 AM

Quote:

]Originally posted by Kingfish
This would effectively kill all free sites, search engine listings, and so on. The search engines will simply quit listing porn/Adult sites

thats what i've been saying, ppl seem to want to ignore it and pretend like SE's will be their best friend.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kingfish
I think it always helps to look at the relevant law

Note the inclusion of the term ?writing? if you?re a pay site owner you won?t even be able to include a description of what someone gets if they buy a membership to your site. And it has that horrible community standards test. For example if your free content would be found to be in violation of the community standards in Utah, it would be illegal everywhere because people could access it from Utah. Only the standard with the COPA test is much more restrictive. It is would horny 14 and 15 year old boys find that your free tour sexually excites them? If so your free tour, would have to be behind an age verification scheme.

and this proves that even if search engines will list 'adult' sites that won't even be able to use the proper keywords to get the site/page listed.

it would be funny if all the tgp owners and free site guys decided to all open their own paysites if this really happened. im sure these ppl who seem so happy at this possiblity would love that. but yeah...it won't happen im sure. everyone was freaking out about this in 98 and nothing happened. the net is just too subjective, too international.

Carrie · 10-15-2003, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
Pro-censorship is anti-American.

The internet is not for kids, it is for adults.

Oh bullshit. That's your bank account talking.
The internet is for everyone.

Carrie · 10-15-2003, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gunni
How about the government would just put a PG stamp on the whole internet, like they do with movies!!

It is not our responsbility to make sure kids do not see our stuff, like it is not Hollywoods responability to make sure minors do not see their films!

There are programs out there that limit access to the internet, and if you don´t want your kids to see porn, simply buy those programs!!!

The inherent flaw with your argument is that there is a person at the movie ticket booth that verifies age before entrance is sold and granted.

Greg B · 10-15-2003, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

I didn't read past here. your first statement is wrong. how could what follows have merit?

Gee, a response coming from a throwback like 12clicks is about as valuable as lighting gorilla farts with a welding torch.

12clicks · 10-15-2003, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Greg B

Gee, a response coming from a throwback like 12clicks is about as valuable as lighting gorilla farts with a welding torch.

counter point! you win.

this is still a business son, 3rd grade analogies reflect on the guy posting them. talk to many busienss people here? I'll bet not.

Greg B · 10-15-2003, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

counter point! you win.

this is still a business son, 3rd grade analogies reflect on the guy posting them. talk to many busienss people here? I'll bet not.

Yes, I talk to the ones who can SPELL.

Now stop peeking over Washo's shoulder and do your tests yourself.

Kingfish · 10-15-2003, 10:35 AM

Another point to keep in mind despite what some of you are saying ?it got shot down in court twice before so it won?t pass this time? keep im mind those were lower courts, and the Supreme Court generally won?t take a case if they think the lower court got it right. There is something about the decision in the lower court that they don?t like.

the indigo · 10-15-2003, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Furious_Female

I am in this industry for money. I am all for free speech and expression, but I believe there is a time and place for everything. While I agree it IS the parents obligation to monitor what their child does and sees online, kids and parents both stumble into things unknowingly because it is not spelled out for them, like it should be sometimes.

I support adults rights to display and enjoy sex as often and as much as they want, BUT all I am saying is, put it behind closed doors and in internet terms, behind PAID memberships. Credit cards cannot and will not prove age, but they will filter a lot of kids from seeing it AND from freeloaders.

My beliefs are about surviving and making money, yes. I would promote and sell just about anything else, other than porn if it comes as long. As a matter of fact I have. I go where the money is, not where I need to make a political statement. I wouldn't do something i absolutely HATE but if I could do something I don't like, if it generates money. Most of America hates their job, but they still do it, just to make money.

Supporting free sites doesn't make anybody money. I don't know what genius started that notion, but it ends up being LESS money for everyone in the industry. So I don't know if you actually believe supporting free sites benefits us all, but in my opinion, it's not possible.

You are still using free sites. Free sites with extremely softcore is still a free site/tour/teasing page.

This thread is about no freesites at all.

I guess everyone agree with you if free sites are accepted but only as teaser / softcore stuff. But where do you draw the line? Usually, it's ON or OFF completely.

Sure, I would be glad that any picture showing boobs, pussies and cocks would illegal. No problem about that.

crockett · 10-15-2003, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Furious_Female
FUCK FREE SITES!

Free sites have desensitized surfers to porn. It takes extreme niches and half a bottle of viagra to get surfers aroused anymore. They have seen it ALL, for FREE. They do not need teasers, a woman in a bikini. Done. They are teased. That's all they need.

All of my pages have no nudity. Ok a few tit pics once in a blue moon. But I compared my sign up ratio, from showing it all to showing girls with sexy clothes on, but not nude and my sales were always better with not showing them too much for free. As a matter of fact, showing them too much for free, ended up producing nearly no sales.

No offense to anyone, but TGPs and movie posts have gone WAY too far. Why buy the cow when the milk is free? I have seen TOURS and JOIN PAGES, heck even animated GIFs that guys could get off on lol.

My approach and it works: Little to no nudity, explicit or teasing/flirtacious TEXT and links to the sign up page. Skip tours... Get them while they are ready for it, don't distract them. And for all the people on dial up, they don't feel like loading 800 pages to get the goods or surfing through 100 softcore pics, that really don't turn them on enough, but by the time they realize the pics aren't all that hardcore, they don't even want to waste more time joining anything.

Sure TGPs make money. Mainly for the one that owns the TGP... but just think of all that traffic and the horrible ratios, that could one day be all that traffic and GREAT ratios...

I will agree with that... I would love to see free sites show very little nudity.. that IMO would help conversions.. but getting rid of free sites all together would kill the paysites..

btw there is nothing wrong with the TGP owner making money..

the indigo · 10-15-2003, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tipsy
Interesting diplays of a total lack of logic and the inability to understand both supply and demand and basic marketing.

Problem (well no it's not a problem for me) is that most people have no marketing skills.

It's easier to sell porn online than anything else in the real world. So stop bitching about the free porn and actually get some skill at marketing and getting traffic.

Banning hardcore stuff will give us better tools to sell, but banning freesites will destroy any marketing concept.

the indigo · 10-15-2003, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wizzo
There was a point and time that Thehun was just a listing of paysite tours...

That would be funny to see his sextracker stats drop from 1.5 million to 1500 daily uniques

the indigo · 10-15-2003, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kingfish
I think it always helps to look at the relevant law

Note the inclusion of the term ?writing? if you?re a pay site owner you won?t even be able to include a description of what someone gets if they buy a membership to your site. And it has that horrible community standards test. For example if your free content would be found to be in violation of the community standards in Utah, it would be illegal everywhere because people could access it from Utah. Only the standard with the COPA test is much more restrictive. It is would horny 14 and 15 year old boys find that your free tour sexually excites them? If so your free tour, would have to be behind an age verification scheme.

Excelent post.

This thread has gone waaaay off-topic.
We are talking about a 100% freesite censorship, including all the marketing tools.

Tipsy · 10-15-2003, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by the indigo

... but banning freesites will destroy any marketing concept.

That's one of the many areas there seems to have been a total lack of logic in this thread and I'm not talking about the destroying marketing concept point. Still...not a topic worth pissing with people over. Far more interesting in this case to sit back and watch

Slick · 10-15-2003, 11:05 AM

Here's a clip that I wanted to point out from that Yahoo article -

"Olson said the main target is commercial pornographers who use sexually explicit "teasers" to lure customers.

The free teasers are available to nearly anyone surfing the Internet, and sometimes appear even when computer users are not seeking out pornography. They typically lead potential customers to a Web site that may require payment and age verification."

So in other words they're talking about paysite tours ??? How the hell is a paysite gonna promote itself if it can't use a teaser tour ??

Ross · 10-15-2003, 11:06 AM

Oh shit my life is over...

Carrie · 10-15-2003, 11:07 AM

It's not the end of all marketing tools. Did the term MILF exist two years ago? Nope.

What did the sufers do when napster started censoring/banning certain band names? They made up new words for the names...

Porn videos didn't always have terminology like "cum-guzzling whores" on them, and they still sold...

Who among you has seen MaxCash's OLD webmaster content? They've still got it posted, go take a look. Or take a look at the KimmyKim nude picture that got posted here by Dean Capture, you'll get the idea. (Not the photoshopped ones.)

Better yet, how many of you would just get out of the industry if this law was passed? How many of you would move to Canada? How many of you would stay in the US and deal with the new restrictions?

scooby doo as scooby does · 10-15-2003, 11:09 AM

As some other people have said, how do you enforce age verification. ? Credit cards don't work now. Current systems in place are not sufficient or foolproof enough. There would have to be a new approach.

Secondly, as a UK webmaster, I am of the opinion that this would be a major boost for my business. It wouldn't take long for US surfers to learn how to use Euro search engines/hosts/link sites/TGP's etc. to find their free goodies. (It seems US webmasters can't use Euro resources for this as they make reference to 'foreign').

And lastly, those that think the Euro countries would rush to copy this law are living in dreamland. The US has a particularly nasty type of religious zealot you let into politics over there that we just don't have. Add to that, try getting a law like this passed in some of the more sexually liberal Euro countries such as Holland etc. and you can see that the chances of the EU, for example, actually passing a law like this is pretty remote. At the very least it would take years.

Personally I wouldn't mind if this law covered the whole world, but if it's just restricted to the US, that's heaven from a purely business point of view.

Carrie · 10-15-2003, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slick
So in other words they're talking about paysite tours ??? How the hell is a paysite gonna promote itself if it can't use a teaser tour ??

Most of what people call "teasers" today, I call hardcore money shots.
The surfer's turning off his monitor and cleaning his keyboard without ever reaching for his wallet.

Milena Dickman · 10-15-2003, 11:18 AM

The surfer doesn´t need the free sites for teasers... The tour is suposed to do that, for all I know.

The surfer doesn´t get in to free sites by accident (ok, sometimes it happens, but it´s rare), he gets there after searching it on google. With no TGPs and stuff, he will get directly to the paysite, simple as that!

And of course he will buy it: where else could he found that stuff?

And after all, television is already a teaser... he sees the hot girl in the bikini on the tv... and then goes to the internet to find a naked one...

Just my probably useless

BlackCrayon · 10-15-2003, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
It's not the end of all marketing tools. Did the term MILF exist two years ago? Nope.

What did the sufers do when napster started censoring/banning certain band names? They made up new words for the names...

Porn videos didn't always have terminology like "cum-guzzling whores" on them, and they still sold...

Who among you has seen MaxCash's OLD webmaster content? They've still got it posted, go take a look. Or take a look at the KimmyKim nude picture that got posted here by Dean Capture, you'll get the idea. (Not the photoshopped ones.)

Better yet, how many of you would just get out of the industry if this law was passed? How many of you would move to Canada? How many of you would stay in the US and deal with the new restrictions?

the term MILF was made popular by the movie american pie, thats the first place i ever heard it. didn't see it on the net till a couple years after that. and as for your napster comment, sure some used different words but there were also ppl working on new programs ie audiogalaxy. personally i would probably just make my free sites bigger and put them behind avs if this law passed, tho i live in canada so i could probably just move my server up here and keep doing things the way i always did. and i'd probably make some crappy paysites just to see what would happen. i'd imagine the quality of paysites would drop significantly if free stuff wasn't out there.

freeadultcontent · 10-15-2003, 11:22 AM

What the hell are you all even debating?

the indigo · 10-15-2003, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
It's not the end of all marketing tools. Did the term MILF exist two years ago? Nope.

What did the sufers do when napster started censoring/banning certain band names? They made up new words for the names...

Porn videos didn't always have terminology like "cum-guzzling whores" on them, and they still sold...

Who among you has seen MaxCash's OLD webmaster content? They've still got it posted, go take a look. Or take a look at the KimmyKim nude picture that got posted here by Dean Capture, you'll get the idea. (Not the photoshopped ones.)

Better yet, how many of you would just get out of the industry if this law was passed? How many of you would move to Canada? How many of you would stay in the US and deal with the new restrictions?

How can you create a new term like MILF if you CAN'T explain it or show it off? Most people don't even know it means Mom I'd like to fuck. They saw some sites and understood the concept.

How can you believe showing off softcore non-nude pictures will be accepted by the law. Did you read the previous post or you are completely Off-Topic again? Playboy magazines are hidden on the top the the shelves, and children can't even see the cover.

Slick · 10-15-2003, 11:25 AM

Don't any of you think that the bigger SEs like Google and Yahoo are gonna realize that they'll have the adult paysites by the balls and will start charging sites to be listed in their engines ??? I know that if I was in their posistions, that's what I'd do.

Everyone thinks that it's gonna be great, but the thing is that once it happens, there's not gonna be any turning back.

Kingfish · 10-15-2003, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
It's not the end of all marketing tools. Did the term MILF exist two years ago? Nope.

What did the sufers do when napster started censoring/banning certain band names? They made up new words for the names...

Porn videos didn't always have terminology like "cum-guzzling whores" on them, and they still sold...

Who among you has seen MaxCash's OLD webmaster content? They've still got it posted, go take a look. Or take a look at the KimmyKim nude picture that got posted here by Dean Capture, you'll get the idea. (Not the photoshopped ones.)

Better yet, how many of you would just get out of the industry if this law was passed? How many of you would move to Canada? How many of you would stay in the US and deal with the new restrictions?

You are totally missing it. Read the statutes I posted above. You could have no images in your promotional material, but as long as you had racy text you would have to be put it behind an age verification system. How would pay site owners describe what type of content the surfer will find if he enters his credit card for age verification purposes? Someone posted the surfers will just go to the pay sites from the search engines. The statute applies to search engines too. The search engines will simply conclude it is not worth the trouble to list porn sites and will no longer list them no matter how tame the content is in free tour area. How would search engines describe the site in terms that wouldn?t arouse a minor that was intentionally looking for the stuff?

the indigo · 10-15-2003, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Milena Dickman
The surfer doesn´t need the free sites for teasers... The tour is suposed to do that, for all I know.

The surfer doesn´t get in to free sites by accident (ok, sometimes it happens, but it´s rare), he gets there after searching it on google. With no TGPs and stuff, he will get directly to the paysite, simple as that!

And of course he will buy it: where else could he found that stuff?

And after all, television is already a teaser... he sees the hot girl in the bikini on the tv... and then goes to the internet to find a naked one...

Just my probably useless

Yeah, seems like you did not read anything in this thread.

Kingfish · 10-15-2003, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slick
Don't any of you think that the bigger SEs like Google and Yahoo are gonna realize that they'll have the adult paysites by the balls and will start charging sites to be listed in their engines ??? I know that if I was in their posistions, that's what I'd do.

Everyone thinks that it's gonna be great, but the thing is that once it happens, there's not gonna be any turning back.

They won?t mess with it because they would have to put their search results behind an age verification system. It applies to them too.

the indigo · 10-15-2003, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slick
Don't any of you think that the bigger SEs like Google and Yahoo are gonna realize that they'll have the adult paysites by the balls and will start charging sites to be listed in their engines ??? I know that if I was in their posistions, that's what I'd do.

Everyone thinks that it's gonna be great, but the thing is that once it happens, there's not gonna be any turning back.

Actually, they won't sell the spots. They will simply use the TOP 10 search results for themselves and sell the 11-100 at an extremely high price that only big sponsors and sites like Playboy/Hustler will be able to afford.

And that's only IF it's actually legal to list porn in SE.

cheese · 10-15-2003, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by xenigo
I think free sites should be illegal. Conversions will be through the roof.

You truly are a retard

I don't care if you have 100% se traffic or avs or even if you're offshore. If you don't think outlawing free porn in the u.s would effect you let alone make you more money, you're in for a nasty surprise.
So go ahead and support this you narrow minded dickhead

I hate people like you.

Swiftone · 10-15-2003, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie

Oh bullshit. That's your bank account talking.
The internet is for everyone.

It is for everyone, but parents who don't want their children to have free access to any and all information should not allow their children to use it. Censorhip of the internet should be a family choice, not a government choice, that's all there is too it I think.

I guess I'm biased, my parents let me look at, read, watch whatever I want and I think I turned out ok. Seeing pictures of naked girls when I was 14 didn't destroy my soul, wtf? The christians lied to me, THEY LIED.

Pornwolf · 10-15-2003, 11:50 AM

I can't believe you all are arguing against this.

Carrie · 10-15-2003, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kingfish

You are totally missing it. Read the statutes I posted above. You could have no images in your promotional material, but as long as you had racy text you would have to be put it behind an age verification system. How would pay site owners describe what type of content the surfer will find if he enters his credit card for age verification purposes? Someone posted the surfers will just go to the pay sites from the search engines. The statute applies to search engines too. The search engines will simply conclude it is not worth the trouble to list porn sites and will no longer list them no matter how tame the content is in free tour area. How would search engines describe the site in terms that wouldn?t arouse a minor that was intentionally looking for the stuff?

I'm not totally missing it.
YOU are totally assuming that every paysite in the world has to talk to the surfer like doesn't understand what "hardcore" is.

www.redhairsex.com (one of Silvercash's sites)
Let's go through the tour. And we're talking text here, not the photos.

Page 1:
Thousands of hot fiery redhead pics
Streaming videos of redhead sluts
Live girls & sex shows w/chat 24/7 inside
Tons of great bonus content & more!
Watch kinky redheads do it all!
Anal - oral - facials - gangbangs - interracial & more!
We unleash the fiery passion of the web's hottest redheads!
Scorching hot photo shoot layouts!

The only thing I see that would have to be changed on that page is the word "sluts" and the "anal oral facials gangbangs interracial" line in the top right corner.

Page 2:
Been looking all over for the perfect carrot top cutie? Look no further because we have more sexy redheads waiting to please you than ever before! All new sets featuring the hottest new girls to hit the web! Plus we update every week!
Thousands of awesome redhead pics!
Premium galleries of pure sexy redheads!
New feature model weekly
These are the girls you've dreamed about!
Downloadable clips & streaming full length videos - streaming videos of hot redhead girls!

Ain't a damn thing on that page that needs to be changed.

Page 3:
You can watch real live girls in action 24/7 in the members area! Our fiery little vixens will keep you cumming back for more every day! Add to that the tons of bonus content you get each month and its easy to see why we're the best!

Watch real live action 24/7
Livve chat & interactive sex with our girls

Tons of bonus content: e-zines - feature models - xxx games - adult toons - erotic stories & more!

About the only thing that needs to be changed on that page is the spelling of "cumming" to "coming".

Page 4:
JOIN PAGE. The only text on here are the billing options and a bonus notice about joining one site and getting full access to 70+ sites.

Don't sit there and tell me that it can't be done.
My dad used to have a saying...
"When they said it couldn't be done,
what they meant was, THEY couldn't do it."

Carrie · 10-15-2003, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Swiftone
It is for everyone, but parents who don't want their children to have free access to any and all information should not allow their children to use it. Censorhip of the internet should be a family choice, not a government choice, that's all there is too it I think.

I guess I'm biased, my parents let me look at, read, watch whatever I want and I think I turned out ok. Seeing pictures of naked girls when I was 14 didn't destroy my soul, wtf? The christians lied to me, THEY LIED.

The christians would tell you that you don't know yet if your soul is destroyed - you'll find that out on the day you pass away.

Part of the reason that porn is such a hot commodity in the US is *because* it's a forbidden fruit. People always want what they're not supposed to have. So you do have those bible-belting religious folk to thank for part of your income, hehehe.

Furious_Female · 10-15-2003, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
Don't sit there and tell me that it can't be done.
My dad used to have a saying...
"When they said it couldn't be done,
what they meant was, THEY couldn't do it."

I can testify to this, because I have been doing it for almost 4 years without nudity or vulgar text on my pages. Sometimes I'll get images with some tits showing and I usually either don't use them or photoshop censor them. I still convert 1 in 25 to 1 in 100. And that's with no nudity and no text that would even be considered profane. It's flirtacious and inviting and surfers know what they are signing up for, without needing visual aide or graphic details.

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
Part of the reason that porn is such a hot commodity in the US is *because* it's a forbidden fruit. People always want what they're not supposed to have. So you do have those bible-belting religious folk to thank for part of your income, hehehe.

US also has the money and major credit cards for it. A lot of other countries aren't even allowed to join sites. Those are the ones sucking up free sites. Because the majority of surfers that have credit cards or checks in the US, will buy memberships, regardless. Hence, print Playboy, Hustler and other magazines sitting on shelves at stores as we speak.

Carrie · 10-15-2003, 03:14 PM

Furious I figure we're just preaching to deaf ears here. Let them believe that the only way to market is the way they're doing it. When/If the shit comes down, they'll leave the business and leave more traffic for those of us who know better. Simple as that. No need to stand here trying to hold their hand and teach them what they can't see for themselves, especially when they're fighting so hard against it. Just makes more competition for us in the end.

See ya on the other side

harvey · 10-15-2003, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel

"And better yet, restricting access to freeloaders." I don't see the point of offering prices for TGP designs and galleries in your portofolio (which i find very good )...who would spend money to offer something to freeloaders? :-)

Here you hit the target of the REAL discussion going on on this thread: the fear of changing, the unexpected. I've no problem in changing my way of doing business (as a matter of fact I'm doing it right now but for different reasons, I won't design for 3rd parties for quite a long while), but I feel like a lot of the people here fears that, specially those who owns free sites TODAY. I have passed thru all stages of the porn biz: free sites, TGP, link lists, webmasters resources, forums, content providing, design, programming, marketing, traffic selling, CJ, TGP2... you name it. Now I'm getting into paysites, which was something I always wanted to do, but waiting for the exact moment. 7 years in this biz, and I'm getting into it now

it's like everything, you gotta change and evolve. btw, thanx for the kudos

harvey · 10-15-2003, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt 26z
A ban on free uncensored pics would be devistating to many webmasters.

What that basically means is anyone living in the US can't publish any nudity at all, while everyone else around the world can.

Sure, you can say the rest of the government's around the world will follow suit. But how many YEARS would that take? It could be 5-10 years before the playing field is level again and everyone is forced to censor images.

Do you feel as though you can compete against webmasters who have no limits, while at the same time you have to black out all nudity?

Fucking boo-hoo

did you ever take the time to read the thread or just typing because you had some spare time?

10-15-2003, 03:32 AM	#102
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	LOL

10-15-2003, 04:23 AM	#105
Tipsy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: See sig Posts: 6,989	Interesting diplays of a total lack of logic and the inability to understand both supply and demand and basic marketing. I'm highly doubtful this will happen in the near future but makes for an interesting and often amusing thread. __________________ Ignorance is never bliss.

10-15-2003, 08:41 AM	#109
Wizzo 2011 GFY Hall of Fame! Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Back in Texas! Posts: 15,224	There was a point and time that Thehun was just a listing of paysite tours... __________________ Looking for Opportunity!

10-15-2003, 11:09 AM	#131
scooby doo as scooby does Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: A deep dark place. Posts: 314	As some other people have said, how do you enforce age verification. ? Credit cards don't work now. Current systems in place are not sufficient or foolproof enough. There would have to be a new approach. Secondly, as a UK webmaster, I am of the opinion that this would be a major boost for my business. It wouldn't take long for US surfers to learn how to use Euro search engines/hosts/link sites/TGP's etc. to find their free goodies. (It seems US webmasters can't use Euro resources for this as they make reference to 'foreign'). And lastly, those that think the Euro countries would rush to copy this law are living in dreamland. The US has a particularly nasty type of religious zealot you let into politics over there that we just don't have. Add to that, try getting a law like this passed in some of the more sexually liberal Euro countries such as Holland etc. and you can see that the chances of the EU, for example, actually passing a law like this is pretty remote. At the very least it would take years. Personally I wouldn't mind if this law covered the whole world, but if it's just restricted to the US, that's heaven from a purely business point of view. __________________ In 1904, Charles Newman-Berry connected two abacus's together using specially enhanced GrapeVine thus inventing the first Internet connection. NEWMAN-BERRY CASH Paying webmaster since 1904

10-15-2003, 11:18 AM	#133
Milena Dickman Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 501	The surfer doesn´t need the free sites for teasers... The tour is suposed to do that, for all I know. The surfer doesn´t get in to free sites by accident (ok, sometimes it happens, but it´s rare), he gets there after searching it on google. With no TGPs and stuff, he will get directly to the paysite, simple as that! And of course he will buy it: where else could he found that stuff? And after all, television is already a teaser... he sees the hot girl in the bikini on the tv... and then goes to the internet to find a naked one... Just my probably useless __________________ work hard. play hard. http://www.dickmansdesign.com MSN milenadickman at hotmail.com iCQ # 276820774

10-15-2003, 03:48 AM	#104
Mr.Fiction Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Free Speech Land Posts: 9,484	Pro-censorship is anti-American. The internet is not for kids, it is for adults.

10-15-2003, 08:29 AM	#108
Gunni Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Barcelona Posts: 2,385	How about the government would just put a PG stamp on the whole internet, like they do with movies!! It is not our responsbility to make sure kids do not see our stuff, like it is not Hollywoods responability to make sure minors do not see their films! There are programs out there that limit access to the internet, and if you don´t want your kids to see porn, simply buy those programs!!!

10-15-2003, 09:14 AM	#111
Greg B So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: EARTH (for the time being) Posts: 7,014	Look, let's face the goalie and get to the puck. The adult side of the web is a strong force to be reckoned with. The commerce dept. is the be all decision maker of the web anyhow in the U.S. Even if the Supreme Court and even the friggin' Justice League came up with a way to censor this or that, another country would spring up with their own form of the web and everyone would run to them to get their smut. There are countries chomping at the bit to be the new web hub. All ya need is phone lines and puters which there ain't no shortage of. The web is making way too much money for everybody and it's biggest attraction is SMUT. Plain and simple. So what can be done? Whatever can be done had better be done fast as new technologies are ready to launch within the next two years. It all boils down to taking responsibility on all fronts to make the web safe and lucrative. Since not everyone is going to play along we may well see quite the fight ahead. Problem? The U.S., Britain and the allied countries can crack down on only their citizens but that would just push that very profitable section of the web into the hands of foreign groups who have no ethics. Would make em' stinkin' rich overnight. Will be interesting to see what happens in the next year or so.

10-15-2003, 10:35 AM	#121
Kingfish Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 668	Another point to keep in mind despite what some of you are saying ?it got shot down in court twice before so it won?t pass this time? keep im mind those were lower courts, and the Supreme Court generally won?t take a case if they think the lower court got it right. There is something about the decision in the lower court that they don?t like.

10-15-2003, 11:05 AM	#128
Slick Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houghton, MI Posts: 7,338	Here's a clip that I wanted to point out from that Yahoo article - "Olson said the main target is commercial pornographers who use sexually explicit "teasers" to lure customers. The free teasers are available to nearly anyone surfing the Internet, and sometimes appear even when computer users are not seeking out pornography. They typically lead potential customers to a Web site that may require payment and age verification." So in other words they're talking about paysite tours ??? How the hell is a paysite gonna promote itself if it can't use a teaser tour ??

10-15-2003, 11:06 AM	#129
Ross Ik ben een aap Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Traffic Force Towers, Canada! Posts: 18,874	Oh shit my life is over...

10-15-2003, 11:07 AM	#130
Carrie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Virgin - nee Posts: 3,162	It's not the end of all marketing tools. Did the term MILF exist two years ago? Nope. What did the sufers do when napster started censoring/banning certain band names? They made up new words for the names... Porn videos didn't always have terminology like "cum-guzzling whores" on them, and they still sold... Who among you has seen MaxCash's OLD webmaster content? They've still got it posted, go take a look. Or take a look at the KimmyKim nude picture that got posted here by Dean Capture, you'll get the idea. (Not the photoshopped ones.) Better yet, how many of you would just get out of the industry if this law was passed? How many of you would move to Canada? How many of you would stay in the US and deal with the new restrictions?

10-15-2003, 11:22 AM	#135
freeadultcontent Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: "evitcepsrep ruoy egnahc" Posts: 9,976	What the hell are you all even debating? __________________ Exclusive Ethnic & Microniche Sites

10-15-2003, 11:25 AM	#137
Slick Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houghton, MI Posts: 7,338	Don't any of you think that the bigger SEs like Google and Yahoo are gonna realize that they'll have the adult paysites by the balls and will start charging sites to be listed in their engines ??? I know that if I was in their posistions, that's what I'd do. Everyone thinks that it's gonna be great, but the thing is that once it happens, there's not gonna be any turning back.

10-15-2003, 11:50 AM	#144
Pornwolf Drunk and Unruly Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 22,712	I can't believe you all are arguing against this. __________________ I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade... Webair, bitches.

10-15-2003, 03:14 PM	#148
Carrie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Virgin - nee Posts: 3,162	Furious I figure we're just preaching to deaf ears here. Let them believe that the only way to market is the way they're doing it. When/If the shit comes down, they'll leave the business and leave more traffic for those of us who know better. Simple as that. No need to stand here trying to hold their hand and teach them what they can't see for themselves, especially when they're fighting so hard against it. Just makes more competition for us in the end. See ya on the other side