One Nation Under God... - GoFuckYourself.com

eroswebmaster · 10-14-2003, 10:42 AM

You think they should take it out?

Is it a violation of seperation of church and state?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/14/sc...nce/index.html

Me personally...I won't stand for sanctioned prayer in schools, at football games etc.

However I don't see how this could be construed as establishing a religion.

BRISK · 10-14-2003, 10:45 AM

It was never originally in there, I don't see any reason why it should be kept in there.

cluck · 10-14-2003, 10:50 AM

God needs to be taken out of the country, out of our vocabulary, and out of peoples minds forever.

BRISK · 10-14-2003, 10:55 AM

Francis Bellamy wrote the original Pledge in 1892. The phrase, "under God," was added to the pledge in 1954 after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus (a Catholic organization). The proponents of the phrase felt the need to distinguish the Pledge of Allegiance from similar orations used by 'godless communists' in the Soviet Union.

Fletch XXX · 10-14-2003, 10:57 AM

I fully support the removal of god from money and schools, and the Pledge.

It was added WAY after our country was founded, and it was added by kid fucking christians, obviously for a clear cause.

eroswebmaster · 10-14-2003, 10:58 AM

fair enough...but do you think it'll actually happen?

I don't see it happening at this point.

If anything the pledge is something that should be voluntary anyway...I was surprised to learn that my niece was still having to say it in elementary school last year.

rooster · 10-14-2003, 10:59 AM

this country was founded on judeo-christian values, that cant be denied.

'god' can be whatever you interpret it as, even mother nature or a big bang.

Even though I do not believe in religion, I think as time goes on and morality is more and more thrown out the window, the effects on society arent very good.

EZRhino · 10-14-2003, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cluck
God needs to be taken out of the country, out of our vocabulary, and out of peoples minds forever.

WOW ......... I hear bitterness ........

Fletch XXX · 10-14-2003, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rooster
this country was founded on judeo-christian values, that cant be denied.

'god' was added WAY after our country was founded, and it was NOT added by our founding fathers.

It was added by CHRISTIAns and is ONLY MEANT for the CHRISTIAN god.

look it up.

ThunderBalls · 10-14-2003, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

Me personally...I won't stand for sanctioned prayer in schools, at football games etc.

However I don't see how this could be construed as establishing a religion.

I agree. The term 'God' does not represent any particular religion nor does it endorse any particular religion. I see no problem with it.

SCJason · 10-14-2003, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cluck
God needs to be taken out of the country, out of our vocabulary, and out of peoples minds forever.

Ex alter boy ?

BRISK · 10-14-2003, 11:05 AM

Having the word "God" in there tramples on the rights of Americans who are Atheist and don't believe in any "God"

Triple 6 · 10-14-2003, 11:05 AM

god is a myth

Fletch XXX · 10-14-2003, 11:08 AM

http://www.flash.net/~lbartley/au/issues/godtrust.htm

'We, the people of the United States, humbly acknowledging almighty God as the source of all authority and power in civil government, the Lord Jesus Christ as the ruler among nations, his revealed will as the supreme law of the land, in order to constitute a Christian government, and in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the inalienable rights and the blessings of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to ourselves, our posterity, and all the people, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.'

speak for yourself kid fucker.

eroswebmaster · 10-14-2003, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK
Having the word "God" in there tramples on the rights of Americans who are Atheist and don't believe in any "God"

Just debating for debate sake...but wouldn't them forcing it to be removed be trampling on the rights of those who do believe in a God..whether that's Jehova, Allah, or the homeless guy who just happens to be very charismatic but smells like pee.

cluck · 10-14-2003, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SCJason

Ex alter boy ?

Nope, I was just raised in a very conservative protestant household. My family has problems with pretty much anything secular.

While most people simply believe in god or a religion of their choice, most of them don't really practice it or know about it. It's really pretty sick when you've spent 20 years knee deep in the gospel.

BRISK · 10-14-2003, 11:09 AM

Worried that orations used by "godless communists" sound similar to the Pledge of Allegiance, religious leaders lobby lawmakers to insert the words "under God" into the pledge. President Dwight D. Eisenhower, fearing an atomic war between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, joins the chorus to put God into the pledge. Congress does what he asks, and the revised pledge reads: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/u...t.exclude.html

BRISK · 10-14-2003, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

Just debating for debate sake...but wouldn't them forcing it to be removed be trampling on the rights of those who do believe in a God..whether that's Jehova, Allah, or the homeless guy who just happens to be very charismatic but smells like pee.

No, because the government isn't supposed to endorse ANY religion. Seperation of church and state is part of the american constitution. The government is supposed to be neutral when it comes to religion.

cluck · 10-14-2003, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

Just debating for debate sake...but wouldn't them forcing it to be removed be trampling on the rights of those who do believe in a God..whether that's Jehova, Allah, or the homeless guy who just happens to be very charismatic but smells like pee.

No, you see not having it there doesn't acknowledge or imply that the government endorses atheism, it just shows that they don't endorse any particular religion. It's still your right to believe it if you want.

Having it on there means that the government endorses a supreme being. This makes everyone who doesn't believe in one seem like heathens or traitors.

eroswebmaster · 10-14-2003, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK

No, because the government isn't supposed to endorse ANY religion. Seperation of church and state is part of the american constitution. The government is supposed to be neutral when it comes to religion.

Seperation of church and state is NOT part of the constitution..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

BRISK · 10-14-2003, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cluck
Having it on there means that the government endorses a supreme being. This makes everyone who doesn't believe in one seem like heathens or traitors.

Exactly.

cluck · 10-14-2003, 11:15 AM

1892

The pledge, written by socialist editor and clergyman Francis Bellamy, debuts September 8 in the juvenile periodical The Youth's Companion. He wants the words to reflect the views of his cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of "Looking Backward" and other socialist utopian novels. It reads: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible, with liberty and Justice for all."

Source: The Associated Press and Encyclopedia Britannica Inc.

Well everyone looks like your pledge was written by one of us reds

ThunderBalls · 10-14-2003, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK

No, because the government isn't supposed to endorse ANY religion. Seperation of church and state is part of the american constitution. The government is supposed to be neutral when it comes to religion.

God and religion are two seperate things. Most religions are evil.

eroswebmaster · 10-14-2003, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ThunderBalls

God and religion are two seperate things. Most religions are evil.

People always start screaming "seperation of church and state."

There is no such clause in the constitution or bill of rights.

There is this : "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

No one is making a "law" here establishing anything. Even endorsing is not making a "law" establishing a religion.

BRISK · 10-14-2003, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

Seperation of church and state is NOT part of the constitution..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

What do you think the seperation of church and state means?

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg1.htm

BRISK · 10-14-2003, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

People always start screaming "seperation of church and state."

There is no such clause in the constitution or bill of rights.

People just use the term "seperation of church and state" as an easier way of describing what the constitution says.

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg1.htm

ThunderBalls · 10-14-2003, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cluck

Having it on there means that the government endorses a supreme being. This makes everyone who doesn't believe in one seem like heathens or traitors.

The government represents the people, the majority of people believe in a supreme being.

eroswebmaster · 10-14-2003, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK

What do you think the seperation of church and state means?

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg1.htm

I know exactly what it means...but show me where that appears in the constitution...

More importantly what do you think "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" means?

It does not necessarily mean "seperation of church and state."

It means Congress cannot make laws establishing religions or prohibiting your right to practice whatever religion you choose.

The pledge of allegicance is not a law...no one is forced to say it and just like in a court of law you don't have to swear on the bible you can always change the words of the pledge.

Now forcing children to say the pledge is a whole other concept.

eroswebmaster · 10-14-2003, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK

People just use the term "seperation of church and state" as an easier way of describing what the constitution says.

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg1.htm

So who cares what people use as an easier way to describe whatever...that's NOT what it says...read it word for word...congress shall make no law.

No law is being made here.

BRISK · 10-14-2003, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

I know exactly what it means...but show me where that appears in the constitution...

I never said those exact words are in the constitution. They aren't.

People use the term "seperation of church and state" as an easier way of referring to what the constitution actually says which is a much longer and cryptic way of saying it.

theking · 10-14-2003, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK

No, because the government isn't supposed to endorse ANY religion. Seperation of church and state is part of the american constitution. The government is supposed to be neutral when it comes to religion.

"Separation of church and state" is not part of the "american constitution".

BRISK · 10-14-2003, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking

"Separation of church and state" is not part of the "american constitution".

I never said those exact words are in the constitution. They aren't.

People use the term "seperation of church and state" as an easier way of referring to what the constitution actually says which is a much longer and cryptic way of saying it.

hyatla · 10-14-2003, 11:27 AM

Peace. There are enough fight in the world under the name of "Gxd".

BRISK · 10-14-2003, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

So who cares what people use as an easier way to describe whatever...that's NOT what it says...read it word for word...congress shall make no law.

No law is being made here.

the Constitution grants no ability to the federal government to aid religion

EZRhino · 10-14-2003, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

Seperation of church and state is NOT part of the constitution..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

I agree, if part of free excerise is that a majority of the people wish to have God mentioned at one point or another, then it is the will of the people. Not the will of the best lawyer. Karl Marx once said that the best way to defeat a democracy is through democracy. By creating laws that talk about protecting your freedoms, eventually the laws will take your freedom away. Remember that we change politicians every 4 years. Constitutional law can last decades or a couple of centuries.

eroswebmaster · 10-14-2003, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK

I never said those exact words are in the constitution. They aren't.

People use the term "seperation of church and state" as an easier way of referring to what the constitution actually says which is a much longer and cryptic way of saying it.

People can try and use any term to describe whatever they wish...does not make it a correct definition.

Once again...it does not say "seperation of church and state" no matter how you cut it or try to define it..it ONLY says congress shall make no laws establishing or prohibiting.

Now if congress made a law that stated that you had to say the pledge and you had to say "one nation under god," this would be a whole different issue.

However I see this the same way I do the "silent moment" time some schools give their students at the beginning of the day to reflect, pray, or pick their nose...if you don't want to say the pledge you have that right.

But to hear "one nation under god" from another student's mouth is not a violation of your rights.

The Truth Hurts · 10-14-2003, 11:30 AM

Censorship (what this boils down to) is Un-American.

If you're afraid of words, why not just go kill yourself and save the rest of us the hassle of having to deal with your nonsense.

eroswebmaster · 10-14-2003, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK

the Constitution grants no ability to the federal government to aid religion

Once again...the federal government *to use your words* is not "aid(ing) religion."

No one is forced to say the pledge, no one is forced to say "Under God."

It's all optional. Or should be...if schools are forcing kids to say it then that's a whole other issue...once again a kid saying "under god" 2 fee from you won't kill you...it' snot a violation of your rights.

Fletch XXX · 10-14-2003, 11:32 AM

I was forced to pray in school, but I went to a Catholic school.

I was sent home more than once for refusing.

SCJason · 10-14-2003, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cluck

Nope, I was just raised in a very conservative protestant household. My family has problems with pretty much anything secular.

While most people simply believe in god or a religion of their choice, most of them don't really practice it or know about it. It's really pretty sick when you've spent 20 years knee deep in the gospel.

Just bustin balls ........... I hear ya ! Almost every "religous person" regardless of faith, I have met, are huge hypocrits. It is just a human beings nature to be needed and validated. So they run to any organization they can, for a feeling of acceptance. There is safety in numbers. So to each his own. Just don't come to my door at 8 in the morning.

BRISK · 10-14-2003, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

Once again...the federal government *to use your words* is not "aid(ing) religion."

No one is forced to say the pledge, no one is forced to say "Under God."

It's all optional. Or should be...if schools are forcing kids to say it then that's a whole other issue...once again a kid saying "under god" 2 fee from you won't kill you...it' snot a violation of your rights.

Whether you are being forced to say it or not isn't the issue. The issue is that the government endorses the current version which includes the phrase "under god"

eroswebmaster · 10-14-2003, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
I was forced to pray in school, but I went to a Catholic school.

I was sent home more than once for refusing.

My dad was sent home for not kissing the Bishop's ring etc..etc..etc...LOL

rooster · 10-14-2003, 11:36 AM

'The issue is that the government endorses the current version which includes the phrase "under god" '

and which religion is that endorsing

BRISK · 10-14-2003, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rooster
'The issue is that the government endorses the current version which includes the phrase "under god" '

and which religion is that endorsing

You're missing the point. They aren't supposed to endorse ANY religion.

ThunderBalls · 10-14-2003, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

Once again...the federal government *to use your words* is not "aid(ing) religion."

No one is forced to say the pledge, no one is forced to say "Under God."

It's all optional. Or should be...if schools are forcing kids to say it then that's a whole other issue...once again a kid saying "under god" 2 fee from you won't kill you...it' snot a violation of your rights.

The interesting thing about this is as I was reading this thread our local news reported that the supreme court is currently hearing arguments about this very subject. Our REPUBLICAN legislators passed a law stating kids must say GOD in the pledge of allegiance.

ThunderBalls · 10-14-2003, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK

You're missing the point. They aren't supposed to endorse ANY religion.

What religion exactly is the govt endorsing?

eroswebmaster · 10-14-2003, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ThunderBalls

The interesting thing about this is as I was reading this thread our local news reported that the supreme court is currently hearing arguments about this very subject. Our REPUBLICAN legislators passed a law stating kids must say GOD in the pledge of allegiance.

Now see that's what I don't agree with. HOwever I don't think the wording needs to be changed. It should only be optional.

Fletch XXX · 10-14-2003, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ThunderBalls

The interesting thing about this is as I was reading this thread our local news reported that the supreme court is currently hearing arguments about this very subject. Our REPUBLICAN legislators passed a law stating kids must say GOD in the pledge of allegiance.

I thought thats why this thread was started.

Are you guys really saying you didnt know this was being talked about?

I thought thats why Eros made this.

Fletch XXX · 10-14-2003, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

It should only be optional.

Unfortunately, THATS not how teachers and the people pushing for this think.

They want their GOD everywhere, like dictators want their picture.

Webby · 10-14-2003, 11:59 AM

"Allegiance" and "God", especially in combination with any State, sound like propaganda and a teaching of culture.. suspect....

I can't think of anything I ever swore allegiance to in my life and have no desire to. As for God, each to their own personal beleifs - this has nothing to do with any "country" or "state".

10-14-2003, 10:42 AM	#1
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	One Nation Under God... You think they should take it out? Is it a violation of seperation of church and state? http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/14/sc...nce/index.html Me personally...I won't stand for sanctioned prayer in schools, at football games etc. However I don't see how this could be construed as establishing a religion. __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

10-14-2003, 10:45 AM	#2
BRISK Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,240	It was never originally in there, I don't see any reason why it should be kept in there. __________________ I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do, I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

10-14-2003, 10:50 AM	#3
cluck Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 5,248	God needs to be taken out of the country, out of our vocabulary, and out of peoples minds forever. __________________ icq 279990726 www.mcdonalds.com <- great money making opportunity

10-14-2003, 10:55 AM	#4
BRISK Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,240	Francis Bellamy wrote the original Pledge in 1892. The phrase, "under God," was added to the pledge in 1954 after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus (a Catholic organization). The proponents of the phrase felt the need to distinguish the Pledge of Allegiance from similar orations used by 'godless communists' in the Soviet Union. __________________ I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do, I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

10-14-2003, 10:57 AM	#5
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	I fully support the removal of god from money and schools, and the Pledge. It was added WAY after our country was founded, and it was added by kid fucking christians, obviously for a clear cause. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

10-14-2003, 10:58 AM	#6
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	fair enough...but do you think it'll actually happen? I don't see it happening at this point. If anything the pledge is something that should be voluntary anyway...I was surprised to learn that my niece was still having to say it in elementary school last year. __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

10-14-2003, 10:59 AM	#7
rooster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,384	this country was founded on judeo-christian values, that cant be denied. 'god' can be whatever you interpret it as, even mother nature or a big bang. Even though I do not believe in religion, I think as time goes on and morality is more and more thrown out the window, the effects on society arent very good.

10-14-2003, 11:05 AM	#12
BRISK Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,240	Having the word "God" in there tramples on the rights of Americans who are Atheist and don't believe in any "God" __________________ I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do, I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

10-14-2003, 11:05 AM	#13
Triple 6 Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: isN'T everything Posts: 5,394	god is a myth __________________ SIG TOO SMALL! Maximum 1200x600 button and no more than 30 text lines of ALL SIZES and COLORS. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 6240x4800 instead of a 1024x800.

10-14-2003, 11:08 AM	#14
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	http://www.flash.net/~lbartley/au/issues/godtrust.htm 'We, the people of the United States, humbly acknowledging almighty God as the source of all authority and power in civil government, the Lord Jesus Christ as the ruler among nations, his revealed will as the supreme law of the land, in order to constitute a Christian government, and in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the inalienable rights and the blessings of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to ourselves, our posterity, and all the people, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.' speak for yourself kid fucker. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

10-14-2003, 11:09 AM	#17
BRISK Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,240	Worried that orations used by "godless communists" sound similar to the Pledge of Allegiance, religious leaders lobby lawmakers to insert the words "under God" into the pledge. President Dwight D. Eisenhower, fearing an atomic war between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, joins the chorus to put God into the pledge. Congress does what he asks, and the revised pledge reads: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/u...t.exclude.html __________________ I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do, I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

10-14-2003, 11:15 AM	#22
cluck Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 5,248	1892 The pledge, written by socialist editor and clergyman Francis Bellamy, debuts September 8 in the juvenile periodical The Youth's Companion. He wants the words to reflect the views of his cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of "Looking Backward" and other socialist utopian novels. It reads: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible, with liberty and Justice for all." Source: The Associated Press and Encyclopedia Britannica Inc. Well everyone looks like your pledge was written by one of us reds __________________ icq 279990726 www.mcdonalds.com <- great money making opportunity

10-14-2003, 11:27 AM	#33
hyatla Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,720	Peace. There are enough fight in the world under the name of "Gxd". __________________ <a href="http://click.dtiserv2.com/Click/1125-99-us979" target="_blank">DTI cash: Top Asian Sponsor, $75 to new affiliates</a><br> <br> ICQ: 274731765

10-14-2003, 11:30 AM	#37
The Truth Hurts Zph7YXfjMhg Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In Your Skull Posts: 15,305	Censorship (what this boils down to) is Un-American. If you're afraid of words, why not just go kill yourself and save the rest of us the hassle of having to deal with your nonsense.

10-14-2003, 11:32 AM	#39
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	I was forced to pray in school, but I went to a Catholic school. I was sent home more than once for refusing. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

10-14-2003, 11:36 AM	#43
rooster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,384	'The issue is that the government endorses the current version which includes the phrase "under god" ' and which religion is that endorsing

10-14-2003, 11:59 AM	#50
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	"Allegiance" and "God", especially in combination with any State, sound like propaganda and a teaching of culture.. suspect.... I can't think of anything I ever swore allegiance to in my life and have no desire to. As for God, each to their own personal beleifs - this has nothing to do with any "country" or "state".