One Nation Under God...
 

You think they should take it out?

Is it a violation of seperation of church and state?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/14/sc...nce/index.html


Me personally...I won't stand for sanctioned prayer in schools, at football games etc.

However I don't see how this could be construed as establishing a religion.

It was never originally in there, I don't see any reason why it should be kept in there.

God needs to be taken out of the country, out of our vocabulary, and out of peoples minds forever. :2 cents:

Francis Bellamy wrote the original Pledge in 1892. The phrase, "under God," was added to the pledge in 1954 after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus (a Catholic organization). The proponents of the phrase felt the need to distinguish the Pledge of Allegiance from similar orations used by 'godless communists' in the Soviet Union.

I fully support the removal of god from money and schools, and the Pledge.

It was added WAY after our country was founded, and it was added by kid fucking christians, obviously for a clear cause.

fair enough...but do you think it'll actually happen?

I don't see it happening at this point.

If anything the pledge is something that should be voluntary anyway...I was surprised to learn that my niece was still having to say it in elementary school last year.

this country was founded on judeo-christian values, that cant be denied.


'god' can be whatever you interpret it as, even mother nature or a big bang.


Even though I do not believe in religion, I think as time goes on and morality is more and more thrown out the window, the effects on society arent very good.

WOW ......... I hear bitterness ........ :waaaaahh

'god' was added WAY after our country was founded, and it was NOT added by our founding fathers.

It was added by CHRISTIAns and is ONLY MEANT for the CHRISTIAN god.

look it up.

I agree. The term 'God' does not represent any particular religion nor does it endorse any particular religion. I see no problem with it.

Ex alter boy ?

Having the word "God" in there tramples on the rights of Americans who are Atheist and don't believe in any "God"

god is a myth

http://www.flash.net/~lbartley/au/issues/godtrust.htm

'We, the people of the United States, humbly acknowledging almighty God as the source of all authority and power in civil government, the Lord Jesus Christ as the ruler among nations, his revealed will as the supreme law of the land, in order to constitute a Christian government, and in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the inalienable rights and the blessings of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to ourselves, our posterity, and all the people, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.'

speak for yourself kid fucker.

Just debating for debate sake...but wouldn't them forcing it to be removed be trampling on the rights of those who do believe in a God..whether that's Jehova, Allah, or the homeless guy who just happens to be very charismatic but smells like pee.

Nope, I was just raised in a very conservative protestant household. My family has problems with pretty much anything secular.

While most people simply believe in god or a religion of their choice, most of them don't really practice it or know about it. It's really pretty sick when you've spent 20 years knee deep in the gospel. :2 cents:

Worried that orations used by "godless communists" sound similar to the Pledge of Allegiance, religious leaders lobby lawmakers to insert the words "under God" into the pledge. President Dwight D. Eisenhower, fearing an atomic war between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, joins the chorus to put God into the pledge. Congress does what he asks, and the revised pledge reads: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/u...t.exclude.html

No, because the government isn't supposed to endorse ANY religion. Seperation of church and state is part of the american constitution. The government is supposed to be neutral when it comes to religion.

No, you see not having it there doesn't acknowledge or imply that the government endorses atheism, it just shows that they don't endorse any particular religion. It's still your right to believe it if you want.

Having it on there means that the government endorses a supreme being. This makes everyone who doesn't believe in one seem like heathens or traitors.

Seperation of church and state is NOT part of the constitution..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

Exactly.

1892

The pledge, written by socialist editor and clergyman Francis Bellamy, debuts September 8 in the juvenile periodical The Youth's Companion. He wants the words to reflect the views of his cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of "Looking Backward" and other socialist utopian novels. It reads: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible, with liberty and Justice for all."

Source: The Associated Press and Encyclopedia Britannica Inc.


Well everyone looks like your pledge was written by one of us reds :thumbsup

God and religion are two seperate things. Most religions are evil.

People always start screaming "seperation of church and state."

There is no such clause in the constitution or bill of rights.

There is this : "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

No one is making a "law" here establishing anything. Even endorsing is not making a "law" establishing a religion.

What do you think the seperation of church and state means?

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg1.htm

People just use the term "seperation of church and state" as an easier way of describing what the constitution says.

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg1.htm

The government represents the people, the majority of people believe in a supreme being.

I know exactly what it means...but show me where that appears in the constitution...

More importantly what do you think "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" means?

It does not necessarily mean "seperation of church and state."

It means Congress cannot make laws establishing religions or prohibiting your right to practice whatever religion you choose.

The pledge of allegicance is not a law...no one is forced to say it and just like in a court of law you don't have to swear on the bible you can always change the words of the pledge.

Now forcing children to say the pledge is a whole other concept.

So who cares what people use as an easier way to describe whatever...that's NOT what it says...read it word for word...congress shall make no law.

No law is being made here.

I never said those exact words are in the constitution. They aren't.

People use the term "seperation of church and state" as an easier way of referring to what the constitution actually says which is a much longer and cryptic way of saying it.

"Separation of church and state" is not part of the "american constitution".

I never said those exact words are in the constitution. They aren't.

People use the term "seperation of church and state" as an easier way of referring to what the constitution actually says which is a much longer and cryptic way of saying it.

Peace. There are enough fight in the world under the name of "Gxd".

the Constitution grants no ability to the federal government to aid religion

I agree, if part of free excerise is that a majority of the people wish to have God mentioned at one point or another, then it is the will of the people. Not the will of the best lawyer. Karl Marx once said that the best way to defeat a democracy is through democracy. By creating laws that talk about protecting your freedoms, eventually the laws will take your freedom away. Remember that we change politicians every 4 years. Constitutional law can last decades or a couple of centuries.

People can try and use any term to describe whatever they wish...does not make it a correct definition.

Once again...it does not say "seperation of church and state" no matter how you cut it or try to define it..it ONLY says congress shall make no laws establishing or prohibiting.

Now if congress made a law that stated that you had to say the pledge and you had to say "one nation under god," this would be a whole different issue.

However I see this the same way I do the "silent moment" time some schools give their students at the beginning of the day to reflect, pray, or pick their nose...if you don't want to say the pledge you have that right.

But to hear "one nation under god" from another student's mouth is not a violation of your rights.

Censorship (what this boils down to) is Un-American.

If you're afraid of words, why not just go kill yourself and save the rest of us the hassle of having to deal with your nonsense.

Once again...the federal government *to use your words* is not "aid(ing) religion."

No one is forced to say the pledge, no one is forced to say "Under God."

It's all optional. Or should be...if schools are forcing kids to say it then that's a whole other issue...once again a kid saying "under god" 2 fee from you won't kill you...it' snot a violation of your rights.

I was forced to pray in school, but I went to a Catholic school.

I was sent home more than once for refusing.

Just bustin balls ........... I hear ya ! Almost every "religous person" regardless of faith, I have met, are huge hypocrits. It is just a human beings nature to be needed and validated. So they run to any organization they can, for a feeling of acceptance. There is safety in numbers. So to each his own. Just don't come to my door at 8 in the morning.

Whether you are being forced to say it or not isn't the issue. The issue is that the government endorses the current version which includes the phrase "under god"

My dad was sent home for not kissing the Bishop's ring etc..etc..etc...LOL

'The issue is that the government endorses the current version which includes the phrase "under god" '


and which religion is that endorsing

You're missing the point. They aren't supposed to endorse ANY religion.

The interesting thing about this is as I was reading this thread our local news reported that the supreme court is currently hearing arguments about this very subject. Our REPUBLICAN legislators passed a law stating kids must say GOD in the pledge of allegiance.

What religion exactly is the govt endorsing?

Now see that's what I don't agree with. HOwever I don't think the wording needs to be changed. It should only be optional.

I thought thats why this thread was started.

Are you guys really saying you didnt know this was being talked about?

I thought thats why Eros made this.

:helpme

Unfortunately, THATS not how teachers and the people pushing for this think.

They want their GOD everywhere, like dictators want their picture.

"Allegiance" and "God", especially in combination with any State, sound like propaganda and a teaching of culture.. suspect....

I can't think of anything I ever swore allegiance to in my life and have no desire to. As for God, each to their own personal beleifs - this has nothing to do with any "country" or "state".