People on this board keep speaking a bout a loss of freedom

[theking]

...because of the current administration. Can anyone give a specific first hand account of a freedom that they have lost?

[cluck]

http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveilla...t_analysis.php

[theking]

Originally posted by cluck
http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveilla...t_analysis.php

I have read it before...have you personally lost the freedom to do something that you were free to do before?

[TDF]

name soemthing GOOD about this administration?

[cluck]

Originally posted by theking


I have read it before...have you personally lost the freedom to do something that you were free to do before?

Well, any computer crime I committed as a teenager would label me a terrorist if they busted me today. Thank god for statute of limitations.

So technically defacing a page can mean life imprisonment or the "terrorist" mark on your file. It's like the fact that I'm fighting a 3 year jail sentence right now for posession of some marijuana. The punishment just doesn't fit the crime anymore.

[theking]

Originally posted by toodamnfli
name soemthing GOOD about this administration?

Well...tens upon tens of millions seem to like the tax cuts...but maybe you are not one of them?

[cluck]

Originally posted by toodamnfli
name soemthing GOOD about this administration?

It's GOOD for whitey, at least the rich whiteys. The middle class whiteys just think it's good for them.

[boneprone]

No loss of freedom here.
The media makes ya think you may have lost it, but fuck it..
Im going to Vegas Baby!

[com]

Kinda like why I use ssh1 still instead of 2, big brother is not only watching you now, but he has his finger on the underside of your nuts while asking you to turn & cough.

[cluck]

Originally posted by theking


Well...tens upon tens of millions seem to like the tax cuts...but maybe you are not one of them?

HAH! I come from an average middle class family. Thanks for the $13 Mr. Bush. Really, we love the fact that you're handing huge amounts of cash back to the richest 90% rather than using it to make sure our kids get healthcare/an education.

[theking]

Originally posted by cluck


Well, any computer crime I committed as a teenager would label me a terrorist if they busted me today. Thank god for statute of limitations.

So technically defacing a page can mean life imprisonment or the "terrorist" mark on your file. It's like the fact that I'm fighting a 3 year jail sentence right now for posession of some marijuana. The punishment just doesn't fit the crime anymore.

So am I right in assuming that you have not personally lost a freedom?? As for the marijuana in a couple of states it is mandantory life...but that does not have anything to do with this administration.

[cluck]

Originally posted by theking


So am I right in assuming that you have not personally lost a freedom?? As for the marijuana in a couple of states it is mandantory life...but that does not have anything to do with this administration.

The marijuana's just a state issue. The fact that a 19 year old nerd who defaces a website is now polarized into a level with some hamas fucker is the really absurd part. There's less leeway in laws that need leeway now and more leeway where there needs to be less.

[theking]

Originally posted by cluck


HAH! I come from an average middle class family. Thanks for the $13 Mr. Bush. Really, we love the fact that you're handing huge amounts of cash back to the richest 90% rather than using it to make sure our kids get healthcare/an education.

Many families with children will now not pay any payroll tax and many will pay a couple of thousand, or more, less than before.

[theking]

Originally posted by cluck


The marijuana's just a state issue. The fact that a 19 year old nerd who defaces a website is now polarized into a level with some hamas fucker is the really absurd part. There's less leeway in laws that need leeway now and more leeway where there needs to be less.

Maybe technically...if the law were applied to the "19 year old nerd"...which I doubt that it would be...but I really don't care what the kid gets. I hate vandals...and I think that vandalism is a greatly under punished crime. I personally put vandalism above bank robbery...as a bank robbery has some sense to it...but vandalism is senseless.

[cluck]

Originally posted by theking


Many families with children will now not pay any payroll tax and many will pay a couple of thousand, or more, less than before.

It's not distributed right. Even for the families who do make out pretty good, just printing more money and giving it out isn't actually going to make people wealthier. The poverty rate is skyrocketing. I'd gladly pay 50% income tax to a government that would 1) make employment a high priority, 2) provide health care for all citizens, 3) provide a free higher education.

[theking]

Originally posted by boneprone
No loss of freedom here.
The media makes ya think you may have lost it, but fuck it..
Im going to Vegas Baby!

Did you manage to get some gambling money snuck by your wife???

[theking]

Originally posted by cluck


It's not distributed right. Even for the families who do make out pretty good, just printing more money and giving it out isn't actually going to make people wealthier. The poverty rate is skyrocketing. I'd gladly pay 50% income tax to a government that would 1) make employment a high priority, 2) provide health care for all citizens, 3) provide a free higher education.

You may not like the way it is dstributed...but for the families that are going to pay zero taxes now...and for those that will pay a few thousand less...they seem to like it...as I know a couple of such families.

I for one thought the tax cuts were a foolish move. Employment is always a high priority to politicians...as most want to keep their jobs. All citizens have health care...just not of the sort they would prefer. All citizens that have an average IQ and the will to do so...can attend college and get a degree.

[theking]

Any personal anecdotes about freedom lost???

[rooster]

last i checked america was a capatalist country. The way some of you talk you want full blown socialism. Head to canada or sweden.

[candyflip]

Gotta love the unemployment rate being at it's highest since the depression.

[theking]

Originally posted by candyflip
Gotta love the unemployment rate being at it's highest since the depression.

From the Department of Labor...so you are just alittle off base.

6.1% for August this year.

8.5% 1975

7.7% 1976

7.1% 1977

7.1% 1980

7.6% 1981

9.7% 1982

9.6% 1983

7.5% 1984

7.2% 1985

7.0% 1986

6.2% 1987

6.8% 1991

7.5% 1992

6.9% 1993

6.1% 1994

http://data.bls.gov/servlet/SurveyOu...ds=Annual+Data

[theking]

Originally posted by theking
Any personal anecdotes about freedom lost???

Well?

[NBDesign]

Originally posted by theking


I have read it before...have you personally lost the freedom to do something that you were free to do before?

To enjoy a smoke after a meal in my favorite eating establishment without having to go outside.... or at my favorite pub...

The freedom of speech... certain statements can get you arrested as a terrorist... Remember the guys in Georgis after 9/11? The 4 medical students... All because some redneck hag had to nose in on their conversation.

Shall I go on?

How about the freedom to videotape a hardcore sex scene between two consenting adults and the freedom to sell it to whoever wants to watch it?

They are the ones that have started cracking down on this stuff.

[directfiesta]

I don't know these guys, but THEY lost their freedom, to say the least....

Two U.S. troops killed in Iraq
One Iraqi killed, 52 wounded in car bombing in northern Iraq

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html

[theking]

Originally posted by NBDesign


To enjoy a smoke after a meal in my favorite eating establishment without having to go outside.... or at my favorite pub...

The freedom of speech... certain statements can get you arrested as a terrorist... Remember the guys in Georgis after 9/11? The 4 medical students... All because some redneck hag had to nose in on their conversation.

Shall I go on?

As for smoking those are City-County-State laws...and the current administration did not make those laws.

Freedom of speech has had limitations long before the current administration...and long before 9/11 people have been questioned and/or detained for misunderstood overheard conversations.

Shall I go on.

[theking]

Originally posted by evildick
How about the freedom to videotape a hardcore sex scene between two consenting adults and the freedom to sell it to whoever wants to watch it?

They are the ones that have started cracking down on this stuff.

There have been arrests and convictions during the span of my 45 years for "porn/obscene" violations across the breadth of this country...which is long before the current administration.

[Furious_Female]

Originally posted by theking


Well?

This is an ongoing debate, that will never reach an agreement. 40% of the country are liberals, 40% are conservatives and the deciding factor is in the 10% that go along with the popular party at the time.

Yeah the people that make more SHOULD be the ones getting a taxt break, because the fact is, the more you make, the more they take. A friend of mine made like $18k last year and she was complaining about having to pay something like $1400 income/self employment taxes. I pay almost that a WEEK. So yeah, I wonder why it would seem the "rich" get a bigger break? Because they earn and pay more to begin with.

If "hacking" or playing games is now marked as being a terrorist... OH FUCKIN WELL. COntrary to what some 19 year old nerds believe, hacking companies/people/servers/services costs money and inconvenience a lot of people. A lot of you think, terrorism is only a guy wearing a towel on his head, riding a camel... but anyone who terrorizes my life, is in the same league and I hope they get what they deserve. I don't know about any of you... but I didn't appreciate having to remove the Blaster worm from 10 of my PCs and having them reboot themselves like they were on crack, before I knew what was wrong. Neither did the half a million others it effected.

I didn't personally lose any freedoms. People in this industry are afraid of how new laws will affect their income. When infact, I think the porn industry needs a lot more policing than it already has. The major credit card companies have already fucked all of us over more than the government always will. PORN is not illegal. The shady practices of selling and promoting it are. I have no problem with adapting to changes... only the strong survive. I welcome and look forward to them weeding out a lot of the monsters and idiots in this industry, that don't belong here anyway.

[directfiesta]

Originally posted by theking


As for smoking those are City-County-State laws...and the current administration did not make those laws.

Freedom of speech has had limitations long before the current administration...and long before 9/11 people have been questioned and/or detained for misunderstood overheard conversations.

Shall I go on.

Like in Guantanamo???

[fiveyes]

Originally posted by theking
Any personal anecdotes about freedom lost???

Anyone who fails to realize the erosion of freedom every American experienced in the handling of The Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri case, is turning a blind eye to those "taken away first".

Originally posted by theking


There have been arrests and convictions during the span of my 45 years for "porn/obscene" violations across the breadth of this country...which is long before the current administration.

I might be wrong but I believe this hasn't been a priority for the last 10 years. You are naive if you think that is not a top priority of this administration.

Ask Extreme Associates who are facing 50 years in prison.

Anyone that would have a statue of a woman's boob covered up at a cost of $8000 is obviously going to have a problem with any and all porn.

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by NBDesign


To enjoy a smoke after a meal in my favorite eating establishment without having to go outside.... or at my favorite pub...

You'll have to talk to your local officials about that. It's definitely not a federal ordinance.

Originally posted by NBDesign

The freedom of speech... certain statements can get you arrested as a terrorist... Remember the guys in Georgis after 9/11? The 4 medical students... All because some redneck hag had to nose in on their conversation.

Actually, that's nothing new. That has been happening for years. Walk into a theater and scream "fire". Guess what, you'll be spending the night in jail...

[NBDesign]

Originally posted by theking


As for smoking those are City-County-State laws...and the current administration did not make those laws.

Freedom of speech has had limitations long before the current administration...and long before 9/11 people have been questioned and/or detained for misunderstood overheard conversations.

Shall I go on.

Actually, it was the Clinton administration that got that started with the fucking lawsuits against tobacco companies....

Ok... here is one... the freedom to use P2P software without being spied on by companies that have no right to be in my fucking computer.

[theking]

Originally posted by evildick


I might be wrong but I believe this hasn't been a priority for the last 10 years. You are naive if you think that is not a top priority of this administration.

Ask Extreme Associates who are facing 50 years in prison.

Anyone that would have a statue of a woman's boob covered up at a cost of $8000 is obviously going to have a problem with any and all porn.

Over course there have been many busts over the past ten years...and businesses shut down over the past ten years...strip clubs...adult stores...etc. which do not even compare to hardcore.

All of the "vices" are regulated and policed...alcohol...tabacco...drugs...gambling...p rostitution...so what would make you think that porn wouldn't be...since it always has been.

[rossiya2]

Freedom to protest in front of the president was a right. Now it is a crime. Freedom lost.

[gothweb]

When a general freedom is lost, I suffer, whether or not it has affected me yet. The extreme new powers law enforcement can use against suspected terrorists undermine the rights we all have when accused of any crime.

[theking]

Originally posted by rossiya2
Freedom to protest in front of the president was a right. Now it is a crime. Freedom lost.

Care to explain specifically what you are talking about?

[Fletch XXX]

There are no more real freedoms.

To drive a car, you must pay to have a number slapped on it.

To have a child you must have a number slapped on it.

Everything is numbered and accounted for.

We are all fucking slaves until we die.

[theking]

Originally posted by directfiesta


Like in Guantanamo???

Marines are not entilted to the same freedoms as civilians.

Originally posted by theking


Over course there have been many busts over the past ten years...and businesses shut down over the past ten years...strip clubs...adult stores...etc. which do not even compare to hardcore.

All of the "vices" are regulated and policed...alcohol...tabacco...drugs...gambling...p rostitution...so what would make you think that porn wouldn't be...since it always has been.

Obscenity prosecutions were at an all time low while Clinton was in office.

This administration is stepping up the offensive.

Bottom line is, the obscenity law is vague. Any normal person would realize prosecuting this type of stuff borders on infringing on free speech, hence the lack of enforcement and prosecution when there wasn't a religious freak in office.

Religious fanatics like Ash*hahahahaha see it differently. Religion + politics = trouble.

[fiveyes]

Originally posted by fiveyes

Anyone who fails to realize the erosion of freedom every American experienced in the handling of The Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri case, is turning a blind eye to those "taken away first".

That case, for those that don't follow this alarming disregard for constitutional rights under President Bush's "War of Terrorism", is an expansion of last year's Hamdi Case.

Someone that waits for their shoes to get wet before they'll admit the tide is rising probably doesn't know how to swim very well either.

[theking]

Originally posted by evildick


Obscenity prosecutions were at an all time low while Clinton was in office.

This administration is stepping up the offensive.

Bottom line is, the obscenity law is vague. Any normal person would realize prosecuting this type of stuff borders on infringing on free speech, hence the lack of enforcement and prosecution when there wasn't a religious freak in office.

Religious fanatics like Ash*hahahahaha see it differently. Religion + politics = trouble.

You may be correct about the Federal Government but City-County-State prosecutions or business shut downs have been on going all of my life.

[theking]

Originally posted by fiveyes

That case, for those that don't follow this alarming disregard for constitutional rights under President Bush's "War of Terrorism", is an expansion of last year's Hamdi Case.

Someone that waits for their shoes to get wet before they'll admit the tide is rising probably doesn't know how to swim very well either.

Originally posted by theking
I saw a poll on one of the news media today about the patriot act and the results were...if my memory serves me.

21% thought the patriot act did not go far enough.
48% thought it was just about right.
22% thought it went to far.

It seems that almost half of the population feel OK about "loss of freedom".

[NBDesign]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
There are no more real freedoms.

To drive a car, you must pay to have a number slapped on it.

To have a child you must have a number slapped on it.

Everything is numbered and accounted for.

We are all fucking slaves until we die.

Yea, don't forget about the homeowners associations... buy a house... you own the property and the building but you need pernission to make any imporvements on the home or landscaping. Plus, you MUST pay your dues or they put a lein on your home.

Not sure about your area... but here in phoenix... it is hard to buy a new home (or old) without these asshole Associations.

Freedom lost... granted this is not a current administration thing... just a freedom lost.

[fiveyes]

Originally posted by theking


It seems that almost half of the population feel OK about "loss of freedom".

Well, I've said it before:

The term "sheeple" is derogatory to sheep. They at least recognize wolf scent.

[directfiesta]

Does this qualify as a valid opinion and analysis:

The American press betrays the same pattern, but there is one important and - to me - astonishing absence. Weeks go by without serious newspapers investigating or commenting on human rights abuses by the American government. At home and abroad, hundreds, maybe thousands, of men are being held in camps and prisons by the military, by the CIA and by the justice department, incommunicado, without legal representation or hope of release, there to endure prolonged and terrifying interrogation. Alone, this is enough for the US government to place itself in contravention of the Declaration of the Rights and Duties of Man, which it is obligated to uphold. But that is not all. There is evidence that the US authorities have encouraged the use of torture and may indeed have participated in the torture of those men they believe to hold information on past and future terrorist attacks.

Attention: " US authorities have encouraged the use of torture "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0...038845,00.html


Or maybe they were trying to liberate them from their WMD....

[theking]

Originally posted by directfiesta
Does this qualify as a valid opinion and analysis:



Attention: " US authorities have encouraged the use of torture "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0...038845,00.html


Or maybe they were trying to liberate them from their WMD....

Well...I have never met Henry Porter so who knows what his varacity may be...I don't know...do you?

[directfiesta]

Originally posted by theking


Well...I have never met Henry Porter so who knows what his varacity may be...I don't know...do you?

I have never met you .... lol

[theking]

Originally posted by directfiesta


I have never met you .... lol

How about Mr. Porter???

[Doctor Dre]

Originally posted by theking
...because of the current administration. Can anyone give a specific first hand account of a freedom that they have lost?

When you travel it takes you 10 times more time to go thru :P