why do people chargeback? - GoFuckYourself.com

TDF · 08-16-2003, 10:35 AM

just throwing around some common secenarios on why people chargeback..

wife finds xxx on ccbill

fraud

professional porn guy who charges back every cent from ordering porn

BigFrog · 08-16-2003, 10:36 AM

they join to find a members area that doesnt live up to its promises.

Johny Traffic · 08-16-2003, 10:37 AM

becuase they learn they can, after any charge back in my opinion that ccard should be banned by processors

TurboAngel · 08-16-2003, 10:37 AM

Cuz they are cheap and they can!

calm · 08-16-2003, 10:37 AM

They can get away with it.

I don't get why cc #'s don't get blacklisted on chargebacks. I know guys who just join, download everything, and chargeback.

wargames · 08-16-2003, 10:38 AM

because its so easy to chargeback with visa and mastercard (oh its a porn site no problem sir your money has been refunded) Always make it easy for you customers to get a hold of you to stay away from chargebacks.

xxxdesign-net · 08-16-2003, 10:38 AM

Fraud...
but also why chargeback.. when they can do a simple refund! Many chargebacks on a credit card always look suspicious...

hornycash · 08-16-2003, 10:39 AM

we handle every chargeback as fraud and it is unimportant
where the chargeback comes from (cc or wire).

the users have the opinion to pay us within 2 weeks or we
sue them for fraud. all what i can say is....it works.

Cassie · 08-16-2003, 10:40 AM

because visa/mc launched a national (and possibly international) campaign whereas if you didnt buy it, you dont have to pay for it. just watch around christmas time and see if those commercials pop up again.

Tipsy · 08-16-2003, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigFrog
they join to find a members area that doesnt live up to its promises.

Then why not get a refund? It's usually much easier. Most chargebacks ONLY happen bacuse the CC copmanies encourage it.

Edit to add - obviously excluding those generated by CC fraud especially on the per signup programs.

lexr · 08-16-2003, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by calm
They can get away with it.

I don't get why cc #'s don't get blacklisted on chargebacks. I know guys who just join, download everything, and chargeback.

Don't they already get blacklisted? I thought they (CCBill, Paycom/Epoch, etc) kept a blacklist for such things?

Rictor · 08-16-2003, 10:55 AM

I find most fraud (bad checks, chargebacks, etc.) comes from webmasters, both adult and non-adult. I think any webmaster@ e-mail should be banned from all the processors.

Gemini · 08-16-2003, 11:19 AM

Some do it to grab all the content they can to then use in their msn, egroup-yahoo group etc and then they spam their members with sponsors of their choices. Just go join about 100 high member lists and see how much you get from them and see what you recognize. PURE PROFIT. And sorely unfair.

But hey this is the home of let's steal books, music, movies, etc etc so who cares, right?

Just_Dave · 08-16-2003, 11:22 AM

its to easy to do it thats why

Matt 26z · 08-16-2003, 12:12 PM

I think webmasters in general like to believe they've got a quality product, that very few people would be unhappy with it, and their signup and cancelation process is acceptable. So they scream fraud every time a CB pop's up.

I don't buy it.

Do you actually believe a guy could be buying memberships all the time, and then just charging it back knowing he'll get his money back?

Give me a break. This is sooooo far fetched.

Don't you think sirens would go off at Visa/MC when someone claims his card was stoen for the 4th time in one year and porn was bought?

How many times are they willing to credit the charges, cencel the card and send out a new one before they start to wonder???

Cassie · 08-16-2003, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt 26z

Do you actually believe a guy could be buying memberships all the time, and then just charging it back knowing he'll get his money back?

yes and it has happen for i have seen the cb reports myself when a person fills out all of their info and subsequently includes their cc statement with the cb request.

included in one two different statements from the same guy 3 months apart, he charged back 4 ibill charges, 3 charges thru veretrol, a ccbill charge and of course a couple he made thru one of my sites.

funny how in 3 months the same exact companies appeared on his statement.

NetRodent · 08-16-2003, 12:27 PM

I posted a thread on this a while back. Jealous spouses and "professional chargebackers" are not the problem. Most of the chargebacks we recieve come from people who didn't use the site for the period they chargeback. Some of these probably didn't know they were going to get rebilled and some of them may have been from cheating affiliates.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=153539

chowda · 08-16-2003, 12:29 PM

coz chowda doesnt pay for gay porn.

Tipsy · 08-16-2003, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NetRodent
I posted a thread on this a while back. Jealous spouses and "professional chargebackers" are not the problem. Most of the chargebacks we recieve come from people who didn't use the site for the period they chargeback. Some of these probably didn't know they were going to get rebilled and some of them may have been from cheating affiliates.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=153539

But then the question was specifically about chargebacks. People who didn't realise they will get rebilled could still have asked for a refund and needn't have done a CB.

It still comes down to (excluding WM fraud) the fact that CC companies make chargebacks FAR too easy and almost encourage it. Although they have recently been flagged (which is just plain stupid) refunds should NEVER have been an issue and if anything should simply show a responsible company ie one willing to listen to a customer and offer a refund if suitable. There are some companies in the 'real world' with huge turnovers but equally huge refund %'s simply because of the way they operate.

ServerGenius · 08-16-2003, 12:43 PM

How about 95% of all paysites just suck donkey balls? Less than
50% of the tour promises can be found inside,....no updates,
70% of the content they have to pay extra through upsells.
Could it possible be that your member feels he got ripped off
bigtime? I know I would.....then a decent number first tries to
cancel....if that turns out to be too difficult they chargeback....

Yes it's easy to chargeback and yes there is fraud....but I
estimate that 75% of all chargebacks are due to unsatisfied
customers who have been promised the world and paid $30
to get access to a second tour with some extra samples.

DynaMite

ServerGenius · 08-16-2003, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tipsy

Then why not get a refund? It's usually much easier. Most chargebacks ONLY happen bacuse the CC copmanies encourage it.

LOL why not try it yourself just once......prepare yourself for
the suprise of a lifetime

of course there are good sites.....try it with just a random paysite
which you don't know.....the surfer doesn't know which ones are
good or not either

DynaMite

Tipsy · 08-16-2003, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DynaSpain
How about 95% of all paysites just suck donkey balls? Less than
50% of the tour promises can be found inside,....no updates,
70% of the content they have to pay extra through upsells.
Could it possible be that your member feels he got ripped off
bigtime? I know I would.....then a decent number first tries to
cancel....if that turns out to be too difficult they chargeback....

Yes it's easy to chargeback and yes there is fraud....but I
estimate that 75% of all chargebacks are due to unsatisfied
customers who have been promised the world and paid $30
to get access to a second tour with some extra samples.

DynaMite

Again that is still no reason for it. Chargebacks should be a last resort and only used where a refund is impossible and/or fraud was committed. It's usually very simple to ask for a refund and this should always be the first thing that's attempted. CC companies should ensure that this has been attempted prior to agreeing to the chargeback. The only (non-WM fraud) reason for chargebacks remains the fact that CC companies make it FAR too easy. Nobody has yet put up a convincing argument that this is not the case.

Tipsy · 08-16-2003, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DynaSpain

LOL why not try it yourself just once......prepare yourself for
the suprise of a lifetime

of course there are good sites.....try it with just a random paysite
which you don't know.....the surfer doesn't know which ones are
good or not either

DynaMite

I've had to a couple of times and had no difficulty. I also know from my own sites how easily people are granted refunds when they ask.

I would disagree that it's difficult to get a refund with any of the major billers.

chemicaleyes · 08-16-2003, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wargames
because its so easy to chargeback with visa and mastercard (oh its a porn site no problem sir your money has been refunded) Always make it easy for you customers to get a hold of you to stay away from chargebacks.

corvette · 08-16-2003, 12:53 PM

Bad value for the price, being mislead into what they were purchasing

The sites that have the lowest chargebacks cater to the customer, have constant updates, provide what the customer wants, keep the site up and running all of the time, don't hide the cancel links, don?t have misleading sales tactics, keep VERY close tabs over their referral program, if they have one?in a nutshell, they run a good business

Below are my personal thoughts, but really common sense things

Is a cookie cutter site with cookie cutter pics and feeds (with a GREAT tour) really worth $50 per month to the customer? Or is a better and safer price point $19.95, for instance?

I thought this was interesting?at the last Internext billing panel, Chris Mallick touched on this the fact that it is difficult to justify paying a referrer $50 for sending a $2.95 trial?where do you think that the money is going to come from? Do you think that all of your customers are going to be happy about that? How much do you think that the customer really expected to spend when they clicked on a link, over $100?

ServerGenius · 08-16-2003, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tipsy

Again that is still no reason for it. Chargebacks should be a last resort and only used where a refund is impossible and/or fraud was committed. It's usually very simple to ask for a refund and this should always be the first thing that's attempted. CC companies should ensure that this has been attempted prior to agreeing to the chargeback. The only (non-WM fraud) reason for chargebacks remains the fact that CC companies make it FAR too easy. Nobody has yet put up a convincing argument that this is not the case.

Well the point is that good sites have a CB rate which is close
or under 1% these are not the problem....Also a pissed off surfer
does not want to waste time sending an email asking why the
hell did you try to fuck my ass by promising me the world and
giving me nothing? They are pissed off and want revenge.....
chargeback is their tool and yes I agree it's way to easy to do
a chargeback.......however people who just chargeback get
blacklisted.....which prevents them from doing this over and over
again.

I say it's been way too easy to just buy 1 zipcontent CD, start
a paysite and charge $39.95 per month....there was/is little to
no control to what the the consumer will get for his money.
It would be good if the billers would be a lot more strict with this.
Like having reviewers that check out sites and rate according set
rules if a site has a certain level of quality before they accept it
and bill users for it there are still way too many sites that are
for sure not even worth 10% of the money they charge.

DynaMite

corvette · 08-16-2003, 01:02 PM

I can go through a site to the billing page and be able to accurately guess what the chargeback rate is going to be on it

NETbilling · 08-16-2003, 01:05 PM

Hi,

You guys are right about the content. IMO customer service is the #1 factor. Helping the surfer when they need it as far as access, cancellations etc... is very important to help reduce chargebacks.
24/7/365 support is a necessity.

Mitch

FTVGirls · 08-16-2003, 01:16 PM

credit card refunds are not considered chargeback, right?

lexr · 08-16-2003, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FTVGirls
credit card refunds are not considered chargeback, right?

To the best of my understanding.. right.

Though I believe MasterCard lumps refunds with chargebacks for some ungodly reason.

icedemon · 08-16-2003, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt 26z
I think webmasters in general like to believe they've got a quality product, that very few people would be unhappy with it, and their signup and cancelation process is acceptable. So they scream fraud every time a CB pop's up.

I don't buy it.

Do you actually believe a guy could be buying memberships all the time, and then just charging it back knowing he'll get his money back?

Yes. I have seen this happen with some customers both on my sites and sites from other owners.

Quote:

Give me a break. This is sooooo far fetched.

Don't you think sirens would go off at Visa/MC when someone claims his card was stoen for the 4th time in one year and porn was bought?

Visa/MC don't care because they make money either way. They make money off of each transaction (charged back or not) and they make money from each chargeback with the fees involved.

Quote:

How many times are they willing to credit the charges, cencel the card and send out a new one before they start to wonder???

They make money from chargebacks, so they don't care. I have done chargebacks and most of the people that you are on the phone with about the chargeback don't even ask why. They just say ok. I have even asked for a charge back and they'll ask me, do you want these other transactions (to the same company) chargedback also. I'm of course gonna say yes.

I always ask for to chargeback for a legitimate reason (I contact the business and try and get it resolved through them first). There have been 3 times where a company just didn't want anything to do with me (one of them was a hosting company). That hosting company not only got chargedback for something I didn't ask for, but also for 3 months worth of hosting cause the lady I was talking to asked if I wanted the other transactions with the hosting company chargedback. I had already moved to another host by then

SLY1 · 08-16-2003, 06:52 PM

The wife is the one the does the charging back!

I agree with you toodamnfli

08-16-2003, 10:37 AM	#3
Johny Traffic Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,461	becuase they learn they can, after any charge back in my opinion that ccard should be banned by processors __________________ hosted flv's, hosted galleries, morphing rss feeds, free content, free sites, hosted blog

08-16-2003, 10:37 AM	#5
calm Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 1,191	They can get away with it. I don't get why cc #'s don't get blacklisted on chargebacks. I know guys who just join, download everything, and chargeback. __________________ <a href="http://www.pimproll.com/"><img src=http://www.pimproll.com/banners/pimproll_468x60_02-3.gif border=0><br>bling bling</a><br><a href="http://www.exitking.com/?ID=40" target=_blank>$3.00 CPM -- NO SHAVING -- NO CONVERSIONS -- ALL YOUR HITS COUNTED</a><br>sign up under <a href="mailto:[email protected]">me</a> and <a href="mailto:[email protected]">I'll</a> send you 10k hits.

08-16-2003, 10:38 AM	#6
wargames Kliris Join Date: May 2003 Location: ca Posts: 10,423	because its so easy to chargeback with visa and mastercard (oh its a porn site no problem sir your money has been refunded) Always make it easy for you customers to get a hold of you to stay away from chargebacks. __________________ ICQ 212-115-582 Email Steve at Vas Media Group .com

08-16-2003, 10:40 AM	#9
Cassie Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 3,139	because visa/mc launched a national (and possibly international) campaign whereas if you didnt buy it, you dont have to pay for it. just watch around christmas time and see if those commercials pop up again. __________________ ICQ: 309756847 ]

08-16-2003, 11:19 AM	#13
Gemini Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: o-HI-o Posts: 7,183	Some do it to grab all the content they can to then use in their msn, egroup-yahoo group etc and then they spam their members with sponsors of their choices. Just go join about 100 high member lists and see how much you get from them and see what you recognize. PURE PROFIT. And sorely unfair. But hey this is the home of let's steal books, music, movies, etc etc so who cares, right? __________________ <center><a target="_blank" href="http://dev.datedollars.com/index.php?s=signup&aid=535&cfg=aac"><img border="0" src="http://216.130.172.224/gfy/gsig.gif" width="490" height="100"></a><br><a href="http://dev.datedollars.com/index.php?s=signup&aid=535&cfg=aac" target="_blank"><b><font face="Arial"><font color="#FF99FF"> Buy me away from Slavedriver Smokey!<br>It's May Sig Sweeps!<font></b></center>

08-16-2003, 10:35 AM	#1
TDF Triple OG nigga on GFY Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: in the BP4L family compound Posts: 27,296	why do people chargeback? just throwing around some common secenarios on why people chargeback.. wife finds xxx on ccbill fraud professional porn guy who charges back every cent from ordering porn __________________ Sig heil

08-16-2003, 10:36 AM	#2
BigFrog Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 2,057	they join to find a members area that doesnt live up to its promises.

08-16-2003, 10:37 AM	#4
TurboAngel H.B.I.C. Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: NC Posts: 30,122	Cuz they are cheap and they can!

08-16-2003, 10:38 AM	#7
xxxdesign-net My hips don't lie Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 10,129	Fraud... but also why chargeback.. when they can do a simple refund! Many chargebacks on a credit card always look suspicious...

08-16-2003, 10:39 AM	#8
hornycash Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: far beyond reality Posts: 2,336	we handle every chargeback as fraud and it is unimportant where the chargeback comes from (cc or wire). the users have the opinion to pay us within 2 weeks or we sue them for fraud. all what i can say is....it works.

08-16-2003, 10:55 AM	#12
Rictor Old Timer Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 12,208	I find most fraud (bad checks, chargebacks, etc.) comes from webmasters, both adult and non-adult. I think any webmaster@ e-mail should be banned from all the processors.

08-16-2003, 11:22 AM	#14
Just_Dave Its almost time Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 13,009	its to easy to do it thats why

08-16-2003, 12:12 PM	#15
Matt 26z So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: ¤ª"˜¨๑۩۞۩๑¨˜"ª¤ Posts: 18,481	I think webmasters in general like to believe they've got a quality product, that very few people would be unhappy with it, and their signup and cancelation process is acceptable. So they scream fraud every time a CB pop's up. I don't buy it. Do you actually believe a guy could be buying memberships all the time, and then just charging it back knowing he'll get his money back? Give me a break. This is sooooo far fetched. Don't you think sirens would go off at Visa/MC when someone claims his card was stoen for the 4th time in one year and porn was bought? How many times are they willing to credit the charges, cencel the card and send out a new one before they start to wonder???

08-16-2003, 12:27 PM	#17
NetRodent Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In the walls of your house. Posts: 3,985	I posted a thread on this a while back. Jealous spouses and "professional chargebackers" are not the problem. Most of the chargebacks we recieve come from people who didn't use the site for the period they chargeback. Some of these probably didn't know they were going to get rebilled and some of them may have been from cheating affiliates. http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=153539 __________________ "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." --H.L. Mencken

08-16-2003, 12:29 PM	#18
chowda Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Gooch city Posts: 9,527	coz chowda doesnt pay for gay porn. __________________ Someone finds you... 2007 PS: Nationalnet is the best host I've ever had. And i tried alot of them.

08-16-2003, 12:43 PM	#20
ServerGenius Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 9,377	How about 95% of all paysites just suck donkey balls? Less than 50% of the tour promises can be found inside,....no updates, 70% of the content they have to pay extra through upsells. Could it possible be that your member feels he got ripped off bigtime? I know I would.....then a decent number first tries to cancel....if that turns out to be too difficult they chargeback.... Yes it's easy to chargeback and yes there is fraud....but I estimate that 75% of all chargebacks are due to unsatisfied customers who have been promised the world and paid $30 to get access to a second tour with some extra samples. DynaMite __________________ \| http://www.sinnerscash.com/ \| ICQ: 370820 \| Skype: SinnersCash \| AdultWhosWho \|

08-16-2003, 12:53 PM	#25
corvette Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: scottsdale Posts: 7,880	Bad value for the price, being mislead into what they were purchasing The sites that have the lowest chargebacks cater to the customer, have constant updates, provide what the customer wants, keep the site up and running all of the time, don't hide the cancel links, don?t have misleading sales tactics, keep VERY close tabs over their referral program, if they have one?in a nutshell, they run a good business Below are my personal thoughts, but really common sense things Is a cookie cutter site with cookie cutter pics and feeds (with a GREAT tour) really worth $50 per month to the customer? Or is a better and safer price point $19.95, for instance? I thought this was interesting?at the last Internext billing panel, Chris Mallick touched on this the fact that it is difficult to justify paying a referrer $50 for sending a $2.95 trial?where do you think that the money is going to come from? Do you think that all of your customers are going to be happy about that? How much do you think that the customer really expected to spend when they clicked on a link, over $100? __________________ If you need a good company for check writing services, then check out checkissuing, and for webhosting, check out Phoenix NAP

08-16-2003, 01:02 PM	#27
corvette Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: scottsdale Posts: 7,880	I can go through a site to the billing page and be able to accurately guess what the chargeback rate is going to be on it __________________ If you need a good company for check writing services, then check out checkissuing, and for webhosting, check out Phoenix NAP

08-16-2003, 01:05 PM	#28
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,582	Hi, You guys are right about the content. IMO customer service is the #1 factor. Helping the surfer when they need it as far as access, cancellations etc... is very important to help reduce chargebacks. 24/7/365 support is a necessity. Mitch __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

08-16-2003, 01:16 PM	#29
FTVGirls So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 1,052	credit card refunds are not considered chargeback, right?

08-16-2003, 06:52 PM	#32
SLY1 Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: L.A. Posts: 910	The wife is the one the does the charging back! I agree with you toodamnfli