Acacia, more news. - GoFuckYourself.com

Paul Markham · 07-19-2003, 02:24 AM

A battle being fought by porn producers this week in a California Court could end up costing billions to media giants like AOL-Time Warner.

Acacia Research (Quote, Company Info) is suing New Destiny Internet Group, which operates X-rated site HomeGrownVideo.com, for patent infringement.

A U.S. District Court for the Central District of California Tuesday issued injunctions, resulting from Default Judgments, against five other adult entertainment companies for violating Acacia's patents.

Newport Beach, Calif.-based Acacia, which has biotech and media technology divisions, is on a licensing rampage, sending letters warning companies that they are infringing on Acacia patents covering audio on demand, video on demand (define), and video streaming.

If Acacia prevails, it could go on to demand licensing fees from any company that transmits digital media over Internet, cable television, and wireless systems.

Its first target was the adult entertainment industry. In July 2002, it began sending out two rounds of letters to webmasters and operators of sites offering X-rated audio and video. The first was a simple letter saying it believed the company was infringing on Acacia patents. The second mailing contained a glossy packet about the company, substantial information about the company's patents, a licensing agreement -- and a copy of a lawsuit Acacia had filed but not served against the recipient company.

Acacia senior vice president of business development and general counsel Rob Berman said money was the motive for targeting the adult industry first.

"Before we launched [our licensing campaign]," he said, "we studied all the markets that might be potential infringers and came up with a variety of groups. One of first was the adult entertainment industry. They've been making money at it. The movie and music sites just started and haven't been doing very well. But adult entertainment is a $3 billion industry."

Berman said that soon after mass mailing porn companies, Acacia began letter writing campaigns to other sectors, including music sites, movie sites, cable companies, in-room entertainment providers and e-learning companies.

"Unlike the other industries, the adult entertainment industry basically ignored us," Berman said. " So we filed and initiated litigation." Berman said it's not his company's preferred strategy to sue, "But they gave us no choice."

Executives at the X-rated companies were at first bemused, then bewildered by Acacia's complaint. Then they got mad. The first letter to Destiny was dated August 13, but Spike Goldberg, Destiny's CEO, said it was mailed to a seldom-used PO box and he didn't receive it until late October, a couple weeks before the second, more threatening letter arrived. A third letter, dated December 16, one day after Acacia's deadline, offered an extension and a face-to-face meeting at a January trade show.

Goldberg told internetnews.com he had his engineers review Acacia's material, then lawyered up.

"We had already come to the conclusion these were not patents we were violating, and we didn't think they were valid," Goldberg said. "[Acacia] didn't invent streaming." By the end of January, Destiny had retained patent experts Fischer Richardson. "The realization hit us that these were guys who would spend $40 million to destroy us," Goldberg said. "The only chance we had was to find a law firm at top of the game."

Meanwhile, on December 4, a group of about 50 members of the adult entertainment industry gathered to plan for war. They soon formed the Internet Media Protective Association (IMPA), a paid membership association of firms allied to fight Acacia and any future such wrangles.

On July 16, Acacia announced that it had received default judgments against five adult entertainment companies: Extreme Productions, Go Entertainment, Lace Productions, WebZotic LLC, and Wild Ventures, LLC. The press release claims, "The injunctions prohibit these companies from infringing Acacia's DMT patents by transmitting compressed digital video information from any of their websites." The court ruled in Acacia's favor because these companies never responded or defended the suits.

Goldberg says that could be because these companies are out of business. "None of us have ever heard of them," he said.

Despite the civility of its letters, Acacia created bad blood in a highly entrepreneurial and independent industry. Farrell Timlake, the president of Homegrown Video, posted on an industry message board site, "A company called ACACIA is threatening our entire community, from content companies to amateur webmasters, with a lawsuit aimed at requiring anyone using online video, streams, server push, or downloads, to pay an exorbitant license fee."

The pornmasters also objected to language in the lawsuit complaining that the defendant &. "derives substantial revenue from sales of adult-oriented, sexually explicit digital video audio and/or audio-visual content&" On May 12, 2003, New Destiny asked the court to strike the four-word content descriptor, saying it was immaterial, impertinent, scandalous, and highly prejudicial." But Acacia responded that the fact that New Destiny offered sexually explicit content was central to the case because vendors in the adult industry made higher than average profit margins from their content.

Berman has his own objections to some of the language used by the X-rated entertainment companies he's threatened to sue. One e-mail response to his missive began, "Hey, Mr. Douche Bag (sic), go f*** yourself." Berman says, "In many instances, [these companies] are their own worst enemy."

Going after the little fish first is a common strategy, according to Joe Swan, a partner in the Los Angeles law firm Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp.

"They sometimes want to go after the smaller players because you can score wins easier than going up against someone who has lots of money, which can make for a bigger drawn out battle." Once a company has won cases or settled, it's easier to win others, Swan said. "Those victories or settlements give you added credibility and indicate that your patents are enforceable. That makes other companies more willing to sign license agreements."

The two parties will next square off in court on July 28. Meanwhile, Goldberg is beating on the doors of the major media companies, trying to get their attention long enough to warn them that they might be next.

"I want to point out to AOL, 'This is a situation that will affect you,'" Goldberg said. "We're just their appetizer."

Mr.Fiction · 07-19-2003, 02:25 AM

Where is this from?

Paul Markham · 07-19-2003, 02:33 AM

Another board and that's all that was there. Someone called Jena posted it.

BRISK · 07-19-2003, 02:34 AM

Quote:

One e-mail response to his missive began, "Hey, Mr. Douche Bag (sic), go f*** yourself."

Bahahaha

Classic GFY style. Sounds like P*impdog.

Mutt · 07-19-2003, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly

On July 16, Acacia announced that it had received default judgments against five adult entertainment companies: Extreme Productions, Go Entertainment, Lace Productions, WebZotic LLC, and Wild Ventures, LLC. The press release claims, "The injunctions prohibit these companies from infringing Acacia's DMT patents by transmitting compressed digital video information from any of their websites." The court ruled in Acacia's favor because these companies never responded or defended the suits.

Goldberg says that could be because these companies are out of business. "None of us have ever heard of them," he said.

Nobody knew David Lace? Webzotic has been around a long time, not sure what they're up to now, was a hosting company if I recall.

Extreme Productions is a very well known company - pretty sure it's owned by Extreme Associates, produce extreme gonzo porn flicks.

So what does this default judgement against David Lace and the others who didn't respond mean? Does the default judement come with damages? Can they shut down David Lace's website?

zzgundamnzz · 07-19-2003, 03:05 AM

Would be really something if Bill Gates ever decided to skip wiping his ass with that million dollar roll of toilet paper and go after these guys.

Probably will never happen though

eroswebmaster · 07-19-2003, 03:18 AM

and now we go doot doot

Paul Markham · 07-19-2003, 03:19 AM

I have an idea.

How about putting up a site with as much information as we can find. Then getting everyone with a mailing list of adult webmasters, boards, content providers, sponsors, etc. To mail out the URL of the site to everyone.

We need to come together on this one, those 5 were picked off easily because they were on their own. We also need to deal with this responsibly. The Adult Net will go heavily to videos, do you really want to give Acacia 2% of your turn over and complete access to your books? Assuming they only want 2%

As for Bill Gates and the other fortune 500 companies. I do not understand why they are not in on this at the beginning. Do they want to fight Acacia, with the judgements and porn money, in the courts?

Paul Markham · 07-19-2003, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mutt

Nobody knew David Lace? Webzotic has been around a long time, not sure what they're up to now, was a hosting company if I recall.

Extreme Productions is a very well known company - pretty sure it's owned by Extreme Associates, produce extreme gonzo porn flicks.

So what does this default judgement against David Lace and the others who didn't respond mean? Does the default judement come with damages? Can they shut down David Lace's website?

Golberg could of just been bluffing to a reporter.

It stops David Lace streaming videos and Avacia can go for damages.

Mutt · 07-19-2003, 03:38 AM

that's what i figured, he was bluffing the reporter cuz i'm sure most people at Homegrown know David Lace and Extreme Productions.

Charly Acacia's wacky patent I believe is for more than streaming video, they contend that just downloading an mpeg from a website is also infringing their patent.

think Lace is gonna regret burying their head in the sand.

Zappu · 07-19-2003, 03:40 AM

I will talk to AOL Germany and ask them what they know about this, because we are delivering the erotic clips for them in Germany.

jact · 07-19-2003, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mutt
that's what i figured, he was bluffing the reporter cuz i'm sure most people at Homegrown know David Lace and Extreme Productions.

Charly Acacia's wacky patent I believe is for more than streaming video, they contend that just downloading an mpeg from a website is also infringing their patent.

think Lace is gonna regret burying their head in the sand.

From what I understand the injunction will stop them from having any video or audio available on their website, along with stopping them from linking to any website that offers this.

And yes, even if an mpeg is zipped it's covered under the injunction.

BRISK · 07-19-2003, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zappu
I will talk to AOL Germany and ask them what they know about this, because we are delivering the erotic clips for them in Germany.

huh? AOL buys erotic clips from you?

SixNine · 07-19-2003, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mutt

Nobody knew David Lace? Webzotic has been around a long time, not sure what they're up to now, was a hosting company if I recall.

Extreme Productions is a very well known company - pretty sure it's owned by Extreme Associates, produce extreme gonzo porn flicks.

So what does this default judgement against David Lace and the others who didn't respond mean? Does the default judement come with damages? Can they shut down David Lace's website?

I'd guess they said that to downplay the fact that Acacia won by default. Most people know who those companies are.

SixNine

Paul Markham · 07-19-2003, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zappu
I will talk to AOL Germany and ask them what they know about this, because we are delivering the erotic clips for them in Germany.

Talk to everyone. This is important.

Paul Markham · 07-19-2003, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jact
From what I understand the injunction will stop them from having any video or audio available on their website, along with stopping them from linking to any website that offers this.

And yes, even if an mpeg is zipped it's covered under the injunction.

That means FTP, think about it. These guys will be in business with you unless you come together and fight it.

jact · 07-19-2003, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
That means FTP, think about it. These guys will be in business with you unless you come together and fight it.

Actually, their patent isn't valid in my country, but you're right, it does need to be fought.

BRISK · 07-19-2003, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jact
Actually, their patent isn't valid in my country, but you're right, it does need to be fought.

Doesn't Canada recognize patents issued in the US be default? I seem to remember hearing that before.

jact · 07-19-2003, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK

Doesn't Canada recognize patents issued in the US be default? I seem to remember hearing that before.

Only if the patent has been filed within the last 365 days, and these patents weren't.

BRISK · 07-19-2003, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jact
Only if the patent has been filed within the last 365 days, and these patents weren't.

So Canada will recognize patents issued in the US, but only for 1 year after they were filed? Then no more?

jact · 07-19-2003, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK

So Canada will recognize patents issued in the US, but only for 1 year after they were filed? Then no more?

To my understanding (I could have misinterprited my lawyer and I'm hella tired so bear with me) -- If someone files a patent in the US, they have 1 year to file in Canada to be automatically approved, otherwise they have to go through regular channels to get a patent here and from what I know, they're not issuing any patents on streaming media in Canada.

Paul Markham · 07-19-2003, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jact
Actually, their patent isn't valid in my country, but you're right, it does need to be fought.

It's not valid here, but it is in the US where we do most of our busiess.

I don't think these guys will ever bother coming to Europe to operate this scam. That is until they run out of companies and money in the US.

JMM · 07-19-2003, 06:37 AM

Folks..

Please, feel free to contact either Spike or myself.

These default judgements mean nothing. This is a NON-EVENT! Acacia can spin it any way they want, it still means NOTHING! As I have said before, the defense group, and the IMPA, believe the patents are invalid. We will fight Acacia to the end to have those patents invalidated. We will not cave, we will not give up. We will follow this through to the end, have our day in court, and ultimately (in our STRONG opinion) prevail. Every day, we move closer to victory.

BRISK · 07-19-2003, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JMM
Folks..

Please, feel free to contact either Spike or myself.

These default judgements mean nothing. This is a NON-EVENT! Acacia can spin it any way they want, it still means NOTHING! As I have said before, the defense group, and the IMPA, believe the patents are invalid. We will fight Acacia to the end to have those patents invalidated. We will not cave, we will not give up. We will follow this through to the end, have our day in court, and ultimately (in our STRONG opinion) prevail. Every day, we move closer to victory.

Does IMPA have a court date with Acacia yet?

JMM · 07-19-2003, 06:50 AM

IMPA is not being sued. The defendants in the defense group are being sued. IMPA, among other things, exists to support the defendants and the industry in this fight to invalidate the patents and protect our business, and our industry.

Yes, this case is ongoing. We are about to enter the discovery phase. Our next court date is the 28th of July I believe.

Mutt · 07-19-2003, 06:54 AM

i don't think anybody here was attaching any significance to the default judgements other than me wondering about the companies like Lace who are still doing business and now have judgements against them.

The default judgements are meaningless to the legal fight ahead for those who are contesting the patents but definitely not meaningless to the five companies with patent infringement judgements against them now. they are in deep shit until a court decides the patent isn't valid.

goBigtime · 07-19-2003, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jact
To my understanding (I could have misinterprited my lawyer and I'm hella tired so bear with me) -- If someone files a patent in the US, they have 1 year to file in Canada to be automatically approved, otherwise they have to go through regular channels to get a patent here and from what I know, they're not issuing any patents on streaming media in Canada.

You're talking about provisonal patents.

Hmm well maybe not.. maybe its different in Canada.

But as I understood it, these are worldwide patents.

jact · 07-19-2003, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by goBigtime

You're talking about provisonal patents.

You need a new lawyer.

I don't do video, and don't host in the US even if I did, shrug.

BRISK · 07-19-2003, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JMM
IMPA is not being sued. The defendants in the defense group are being sued. IMPA, among other things, exists to support the defendants and the industry in this fight to invalidate the patents and protect our business, and our industry.

Yes, this case is ongoing. We are about to enter the discovery phase. Our next court date is the 28th of July I believe.

I assume Home grown video is first on the firing line of court dates, are they?

JMM · 07-19-2003, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mutt
i don't think anybody here was attaching any significance to the default judgements other than me wondering about the companies like Lace who are still doing business and now have judgements against them.

The default judgements are meaningless to the legal fight ahead for those who are contesting the patents but definitely not meaningless to the five companies with patent infringement judgements against them now. they are in deep shit until a court decides the patent isn't valid.

True..however, for the record, any of these companies, should they decide to change their minds and fight, could easily have these judgements set aside.

JMM · 07-19-2003, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK

I assume Home grown video is first on the firing line of court dates, are they?

Actually, no. All the defendants are in the same position on the firing lane. All cases are being tried at the same time. They have all been assigned to the same judge. Although they are being handled as independant cases, it all takes place simultaneously.

Mutt · 07-19-2003, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JMM

Actually, no. All the defendants are in the same position on the firing lane. All cases are being tried at the same time. They have all been assigned to the same judge. Although they are being handled as independant cases, it all takes place simultaneously.

that's something I didn't know.

how many defendants are there? each defendant has its own attorney(s)? what a clusterfuck. Why is the only company referred to in the news articles New Destiny(Homegrown)?

goBigtime · 07-19-2003, 07:15 AM

JMM, IMPAI & Crew,

I wrote & rewrote this a bunch of different ways because I don't want to put out too much negativity out here, so I'll just say:

Please put a real website up soon.

JMM · 07-19-2003, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mutt

that's something I didn't know.

how many defendants are there? each defendant has its own attorney(s)? what a clusterfuck. Why is the only company referred to in the news articles New Destiny(Homegrown)?

Right now there are approximately 21 defendants.

In our defense group, there are 10 companies, but we believe that 2 more are about to join us. In the LFP defense group, there are 3 companies. LFP/Hustler is fighting for your rights as well.

Homegrown is mentioned significantly in the articles because Spike and Farrel have been instrumental in gathering everyone together for the fight.

JMM · 07-19-2003, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by goBigtime
JMM, IMPAI & Crew,

I wrote & rewrote this a bunch of different ways because I don't want to put out too much negativity out here, so I'll just say:

Please put a real website up soon.

I understand..we are. Please understand that this has been a HUGE undertaking. Ideally, it would have been better to have everything done before we spoke a word. Unfortunately, information needed to get out. In addition to all the work needed to form the IMPA, deal with the defense group, provide information to the lawyers, etc, etc, etc..we still all have companies to run.

You will see a website that I think you will be very pleased with next week.

I do however appreciate the sugar coating.

emmanuelle · 07-19-2003, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jact
Actually, their patent isn't valid in my country, but you're right, it does need to be fought.

Jact- the patent itself is not valid in Canada, but if Acacia wins, they can still hurt you. They can pressure your billing, or even your host's upstream provider.

Regardless of geography, we all need to show some solidarity and support those who are working on behalf of all of us. This isn't a fruitless endeavor like telling Visa to GFY, it's real, and affects nearly every one of us in one way or another.

BradShaw · 07-19-2003, 08:27 AM

No surprise that David Lace did not handle being served in the proper manner. We had a legal issue a couple years ago involving images we bought from him. Girl saw them on our site, hired a lawyer, claims she never signed a model release, they were only test shots. Numerous calls and emails to lace, we never could get the model release, to get the lawyer off our backs. Ended up taking down the images and working with the lawyer, so he could find Lace. No idea what came of it. But he is an idiot photgrapher, not a businessman.

Sharpie · 07-19-2003, 08:29 AM

I haven't seen anyone ask, but I am sure all are wondering..... who are the 21 companies who have received the paperwork? Of course - that question might be too personal, as it maybe is up to the indicidual companies if they want this information divulged. IF it is public knowledge, could you post them? It might bring the proceedings a little closer to the the hearts of the webmasters if he/she sees his best sponsors involved - it might bring the seriousness of how it affects their own pocket book if the endeavor is unsuccessful.

homegrownSpike · 07-19-2003, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mutt

that's something I didn't know.

how many defendants are there? each defendant has its own attorney(s)? what a clusterfuck. Why is the only company referred to in the news articles New Destiny(Homegrown)?

Greg Clayman, Farrell, and I tried to contact everyone who was sued. We realized in the beginning that a larger group would help defer the cost and keep the message consistent.

As far as the companies who received the default issue all I can say is that we tried to contact them. Further as you will see from the following AVN article. http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary...ntent_ID=34286 and from what Acacia has said these companies have been unreachable.

As to your point of hearing only from New Destiny (Homegrown), it is far better to get information from one source then multiple sources. My points are universal for our group of defendants and the industry.

Finally I just want to say that if you should ever have any comments, questions, or constructive criticism feel free to contact Farrell, Jeff, Greg Clayman, or myself. We have and always will have our doors open to friends and critics alike.

My Number and e-mail are
949-716-8080
[email protected]

Jeff?s is:
[email protected]
909-674-9925

nuclei · 07-19-2003, 08:40 AM

Those 5 default judgements dont mean dick. The 5 companies in question were stupid and did not even go to court to give a token show of resistance. Their fault, their loss.

If they had even taken the time out to show up with even a country lawyer, they could have dragged it out a year until the big cases were heard and dismissed.

jcnlv · 07-19-2003, 11:59 AM

Video will just get bigger and bigger, and still shoots will become less and less significant. If Acacia succeeds most of the content customers in the world will need to comply, which will affect the entire industry in evey aspect.

If you are a content provider or paysite owner (or affiliate) that wants to be competetive in the future, Acacia and their patents should be of major interest to you - no matter what country you are located in.

It is about deciding who to pay off -- Acacia or the lawyers...

If you pay off Acacia you are out the money annually for a license fee - but free of liability. (for what may be a unenforceable patent.) They win. If you invest in lawyers you are out the money for as long as the lawyers can squeeze it out of you, and if in fact the lawyers lose, you are liable for back license fees since you started in the business. In any case the only for sure winners will be the lawyers.

I have heard a lot of "prior art" talk - but talk is what boards like this are about. It would sure be nice to see something solid that you could feel good putting your money behind. When I first contacted the original group that became impai.org I was told "...come on in,.... that will be $6,000 (minimum)...if you want to be a part"

When talking with Acacia I actually got a better offer financially speaking. My biggest problem is with the Acacia terms... "% of gross income of entire business... disclosure of all licensees... full access to books etc."

As far as the patent being valid? Considering the court systems I doubt that validity will be the most important criteria when the final decisions are made. It is unfortunate that our industry is all painted with the same wide brush. The outlandish actions and comments of the few will probably hinder us in any action. I've already seen the quotes showing up in mainstream stories about the problem. Not good P.R.

As for AOL worried about Acacia ... the only thing they are probably worried about -- is that M$ will buy Acacia out first.

Ludedude · 07-19-2003, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jcnlv

As for AOL worried about Acacia ... the only thing they are probably worried about -- is that M$ will buy Acacia out first.

There's an interesting thought that hasn't been mentioned before. Maybe M$ doesn't give a fuck for a good reason.

Mutt · 07-19-2003, 12:49 PM

man have i heard some fucked up stories about David Lace, and I don't go looking for them, but it seems they always come up.

SykkBoy · 07-19-2003, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jcnlv
It is unfortunate that our industry is all painted with the same wide brush. The outlandish actions and comments of the few will probably hinder us in any action. I've already seen the quotes showing up in mainstream stories about the problem. Not good P.R.

so, I probably shouldn't be wishing plague and famine on the fine folks at Acacia? ;-))

Paul Markham · 07-19-2003, 01:59 PM

jcnlv
Made some very good points, this will effect us all. I even heard that the patent covers zipping picture files.

The problem is there are too many shouting off, making stupid posts that Acacia can and might use in a court of law. Do you think it was a coincidence that they picked on the Adult Internet to launch the first major offensive? Not only will the patent be on trial but you can be sure Acacia will put us on trial as well.

Never underestimate the enemy. Do you think it was coincidence they picked 5 companies of who NONE turned up? Or just good strategy?

Spike you have mail.

fiveyes · 07-27-2003, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by goBigtime
JMM, IMPAI & Crew,

I wrote & rewrote this a bunch of different ways because I don't want to put out too much negativity out here, so I'll just say:

Please put a real website up soon.

Quote:

Originally posted by JMM

I understand..we are. Please understand that this has been a HUGE undertaking. Ideally, it would have been better to have everything done before we spoke a word. Unfortunately, information needed to get out. In addition to all the work needed to form the IMPA, deal with the defense group, provide information to the lawyers, etc, etc, etc..we still all have companies to run.

You will see a website that I think you will be very pleased with next week.

I do however appreciate the sugar coating.

a friendly bump from "next week"

candidpublishinginc · 07-27-2003, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by goBigtime
But as I understood it, these are worldwide patents.

There is no such thing as a worldwide patent.

boobmaster · 07-27-2003, 03:29 AM

Quote:

From what I understand the injunction will stop them from having any video or audio available on their website, along with stopping them from linking to any website that offers this.

And yes, even if an mpeg is zipped it's covered under the injunction.

This is so FRIGGIN' rediculous. How is simply LINKING to a site offering video content infringing on their patents? I am not a lawyer and know almost nothing about patent law and even I know this would never stand in any court if challenged. From what I understand, a common strategy in the patent enforcement business (i.e., the legalized extortion business) is to interpret the patents as broadly as possible. In many cases only certain provisions of a patent are ruled invalid, not the entire patent. So they try to get as much $$ from as many victims as they can as soon as they can.

My pay sites offer video content, but not for much longer. I can't afford to pay their extortion money. If they next wanna come after me for just linking to a site that has video, or for linking to a site that links to a site that offers video, they can kiss my ass. This is one part of the patent that I have absolutely zero doubt will be invalidated.

It wouldn't surprise me to see someone get a letter like the following from Acacia:

"Your website provides access to a site which provides access to a site which is listed in the google directory where one of the other sites provides access to a site which offers video content. ...... In order to Bla Bla Bla ... you need a license from Acacia."

sexeducation · 07-27-2003, 03:31 AM

These things can just "snowball" if not handled carefully.

It appears IMPAI.org needs money from anyone who wishes to disseminate information online in a "streaming" format.

It's time for ACACIA to come out of the "closet" and fight players of equal strength to have this resolved.

IMPAI.org must be just as strong as ACACIA or it will lose regardless of being right or not.

07-19-2003, 02:24 AM	#1
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	Acacia, more news. A battle being fought by porn producers this week in a California Court could end up costing billions to media giants like AOL-Time Warner. Acacia Research (Quote, Company Info) is suing New Destiny Internet Group, which operates X-rated site HomeGrownVideo.com, for patent infringement. A U.S. District Court for the Central District of California Tuesday issued injunctions, resulting from Default Judgments, against five other adult entertainment companies for violating Acacia's patents. Newport Beach, Calif.-based Acacia, which has biotech and media technology divisions, is on a licensing rampage, sending letters warning companies that they are infringing on Acacia patents covering audio on demand, video on demand (define), and video streaming. If Acacia prevails, it could go on to demand licensing fees from any company that transmits digital media over Internet, cable television, and wireless systems. Its first target was the adult entertainment industry. In July 2002, it began sending out two rounds of letters to webmasters and operators of sites offering X-rated audio and video. The first was a simple letter saying it believed the company was infringing on Acacia patents. The second mailing contained a glossy packet about the company, substantial information about the company's patents, a licensing agreement -- and a copy of a lawsuit Acacia had filed but not served against the recipient company. Acacia senior vice president of business development and general counsel Rob Berman said money was the motive for targeting the adult industry first. "Before we launched [our licensing campaign]," he said, "we studied all the markets that might be potential infringers and came up with a variety of groups. One of first was the adult entertainment industry. They've been making money at it. The movie and music sites just started and haven't been doing very well. But adult entertainment is a $3 billion industry." Berman said that soon after mass mailing porn companies, Acacia began letter writing campaigns to other sectors, including music sites, movie sites, cable companies, in-room entertainment providers and e-learning companies. "Unlike the other industries, the adult entertainment industry basically ignored us," Berman said. " So we filed and initiated litigation." Berman said it's not his company's preferred strategy to sue, "But they gave us no choice." Executives at the X-rated companies were at first bemused, then bewildered by Acacia's complaint. Then they got mad. The first letter to Destiny was dated August 13, but Spike Goldberg, Destiny's CEO, said it was mailed to a seldom-used PO box and he didn't receive it until late October, a couple weeks before the second, more threatening letter arrived. A third letter, dated December 16, one day after Acacia's deadline, offered an extension and a face-to-face meeting at a January trade show. Goldberg told internetnews.com he had his engineers review Acacia's material, then lawyered up. "We had already come to the conclusion these were not patents we were violating, and we didn't think they were valid," Goldberg said. "[Acacia] didn't invent streaming." By the end of January, Destiny had retained patent experts Fischer Richardson. "The realization hit us that these were guys who would spend $40 million to destroy us," Goldberg said. "The only chance we had was to find a law firm at top of the game." Meanwhile, on December 4, a group of about 50 members of the adult entertainment industry gathered to plan for war. They soon formed the Internet Media Protective Association (IMPA), a paid membership association of firms allied to fight Acacia and any future such wrangles. On July 16, Acacia announced that it had received default judgments against five adult entertainment companies: Extreme Productions, Go Entertainment, Lace Productions, WebZotic LLC, and Wild Ventures, LLC. The press release claims, "The injunctions prohibit these companies from infringing Acacia's DMT patents by transmitting compressed digital video information from any of their websites." The court ruled in Acacia's favor because these companies never responded or defended the suits. Goldberg says that could be because these companies are out of business. "None of us have ever heard of them," he said. Despite the civility of its letters, Acacia created bad blood in a highly entrepreneurial and independent industry. Farrell Timlake, the president of Homegrown Video, posted on an industry message board site, "A company called ACACIA is threatening our entire community, from content companies to amateur webmasters, with a lawsuit aimed at requiring anyone using online video, streams, server push, or downloads, to pay an exorbitant license fee." The pornmasters also objected to language in the lawsuit complaining that the defendant &. "derives substantial revenue from sales of adult-oriented, sexually explicit digital video audio and/or audio-visual content&" On May 12, 2003, New Destiny asked the court to strike the four-word content descriptor, saying it was immaterial, impertinent, scandalous, and highly prejudicial." But Acacia responded that the fact that New Destiny offered sexually explicit content was central to the case because vendors in the adult industry made higher than average profit margins from their content. Berman has his own objections to some of the language used by the X-rated entertainment companies he's threatened to sue. One e-mail response to his missive began, "Hey, Mr. Douche Bag (sic), go f*** yourself." Berman says, "In many instances, [these companies] are their own worst enemy." Going after the little fish first is a common strategy, according to Joe Swan, a partner in the Los Angeles law firm Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp. "They sometimes want to go after the smaller players because you can score wins easier than going up against someone who has lots of money, which can make for a bigger drawn out battle." Once a company has won cases or settled, it's easier to win others, Swan said. "Those victories or settlements give you added credibility and indicate that your patents are enforceable. That makes other companies more willing to sign license agreements." The two parties will next square off in court on July 28. Meanwhile, Goldberg is beating on the doors of the major media companies, trying to get their attention long enough to warn them that they might be next. "I want to point out to AOL, 'This is a situation that will affect you,'" Goldberg said. "We're just their appetizer." __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

07-19-2003, 02:25 AM	#2
Mr.Fiction Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Free Speech Land Posts: 9,484	Where is this from? __________________ Don't be lazy, protect free speech: ACLU \| Free Speech Coalition \| EFF \| IMPA

07-19-2003, 02:33 AM	#3
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	Another board and that's all that was there. Someone called Jena posted it. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70 Last edited by charly; 07-19-2003 at 02:37 AM..

07-19-2003, 03:05 AM	#6
zzgundamnzz Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,102	Would be really something if Bill Gates ever decided to skip wiping his ass with that million dollar roll of toilet paper and go after these guys. Probably will never happen though __________________

07-19-2003, 03:18 AM	#7
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	and now we go doot doot __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

07-19-2003, 03:19 AM	#8
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	I have an idea. How about putting up a site with as much information as we can find. Then getting everyone with a mailing list of adult webmasters, boards, content providers, sponsors, etc. To mail out the URL of the site to everyone. We need to come together on this one, those 5 were picked off easily because they were on their own. We also need to deal with this responsibly. The Adult Net will go heavily to videos, do you really want to give Acacia 2% of your turn over and complete access to your books? Assuming they only want 2% As for Bill Gates and the other fortune 500 companies. I do not understand why they are not in on this at the beginning. Do they want to fight Acacia, with the judgements and porn money, in the courts? __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

07-19-2003, 03:38 AM	#10
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	that's what i figured, he was bluffing the reporter cuz i'm sure most people at Homegrown know David Lace and Extreme Productions. Charly Acacia's wacky patent I believe is for more than streaming video, they contend that just downloading an mpeg from a website is also infringing their patent. think Lace is gonna regret burying their head in the sand. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

07-19-2003, 03:40 AM	#11
Zappu Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,556	I will talk to AOL Germany and ask them what they know about this, because we are delivering the erotic clips for them in Germany. __________________ Zappu (ICQ: 23141467) European Erotik Content Archive CONTENT4FREE = CONTENT4CLICKS X JOIN NOW!

07-19-2003, 06:37 AM	#23
JMM Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 1,755	Folks.. Please, feel free to contact either Spike or myself. These default judgements mean nothing. This is a NON-EVENT! Acacia can spin it any way they want, it still means NOTHING! As I have said before, the defense group, and the IMPA, believe the patents are invalid. We will fight Acacia to the end to have those patents invalidated. We will not cave, we will not give up. We will follow this through to the end, have our day in court, and ultimately (in our STRONG opinion) prevail. Every day, we move closer to victory.

07-19-2003, 06:50 AM	#25
JMM Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 1,755	IMPA is not being sued. The defendants in the defense group are being sued. IMPA, among other things, exists to support the defendants and the industry in this fight to invalidate the patents and protect our business, and our industry. Yes, this case is ongoing. We are about to enter the discovery phase. Our next court date is the 28th of July I believe.

07-19-2003, 06:54 AM	#26
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	i don't think anybody here was attaching any significance to the default judgements other than me wondering about the companies like Lace who are still doing business and now have judgements against them. The default judgements are meaningless to the legal fight ahead for those who are contesting the patents but definitely not meaningless to the five companies with patent infringement judgements against them now. they are in deep shit until a court decides the patent isn't valid. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

07-19-2003, 07:15 AM	#33
goBigtime Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7,761	JMM, IMPAI & Crew, I wrote & rewrote this a bunch of different ways because I don't want to put out too much negativity out here, so I'll just say: Please put a real website up soon.

07-19-2003, 08:27 AM	#37
BradShaw Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: KB's trailer Posts: 7,840	No surprise that David Lace did not handle being served in the proper manner. We had a legal issue a couple years ago involving images we bought from him. Girl saw them on our site, hired a lawyer, claims she never signed a model release, they were only test shots. Numerous calls and emails to lace, we never could get the model release, to get the lawyer off our backs. Ended up taking down the images and working with the lawyer, so he could find Lace. No idea what came of it. But he is an idiot photgrapher, not a businessman. __________________ Sig too big http://www.gofuckyourself.com/gfy_faqs.html Want to use a large banner in your sig??? Contact Eric about getting on as an advertiser - eric AT adult.com

07-19-2003, 08:29 AM	#38
Sharpie Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 438	I haven't seen anyone ask, but I am sure all are wondering..... who are the 21 companies who have received the paperwork? Of course - that question might be too personal, as it maybe is up to the indicidual companies if they want this information divulged. IF it is public knowledge, could you post them? It might bring the proceedings a little closer to the the hearts of the webmasters if he/she sees his best sponsors involved - it might bring the seriousness of how it affects their own pocket book if the endeavor is unsuccessful.

07-19-2003, 08:40 AM	#40
nuclei old school fart Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 1,015	Those 5 default judgements dont mean dick. The 5 companies in question were stupid and did not even go to court to give a token show of resistance. Their fault, their loss. If they had even taken the time out to show up with even a country lawyer, they could have dragged it out a year until the big cases were heard and dismissed. __________________ The next generation of SEO

07-19-2003, 11:59 AM	#41
jcnlv Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 55	Video will just get bigger and bigger, and still shoots will become less and less significant. If Acacia succeeds most of the content customers in the world will need to comply, which will affect the entire industry in evey aspect. If you are a content provider or paysite owner (or affiliate) that wants to be competetive in the future, Acacia and their patents should be of major interest to you - no matter what country you are located in. It is about deciding who to pay off -- Acacia or the lawyers... If you pay off Acacia you are out the money annually for a license fee - but free of liability. (for what may be a unenforceable patent.) They win. If you invest in lawyers you are out the money for as long as the lawyers can squeeze it out of you, and if in fact the lawyers lose, you are liable for back license fees since you started in the business. In any case the only for sure winners will be the lawyers. I have heard a lot of "prior art" talk - but talk is what boards like this are about. It would sure be nice to see something solid that you could feel good putting your money behind. When I first contacted the original group that became impai.org I was told "...come on in,.... that will be $6,000 (minimum)...if you want to be a part" When talking with Acacia I actually got a better offer financially speaking. My biggest problem is with the Acacia terms... "% of gross income of entire business... disclosure of all licensees... full access to books etc." As far as the patent being valid? Considering the court systems I doubt that validity will be the most important criteria when the final decisions are made. It is unfortunate that our industry is all painted with the same wide brush. The outlandish actions and comments of the few will probably hinder us in any action. I've already seen the quotes showing up in mainstream stories about the problem. Not good P.R. As for AOL worried about Acacia ... the only thing they are probably worried about -- is that M$ will buy Acacia out first. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

07-19-2003, 12:49 PM	#43
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	man have i heard some fucked up stories about David Lace, and I don't go looking for them, but it seems they always come up. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

07-19-2003, 01:59 PM	#45
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	jcnlv Made some very good points, this will effect us all. I even heard that the patent covers zipping picture files. The problem is there are too many shouting off, making stupid posts that Acacia can and might use in a court of law. Do you think it was a coincidence that they picked on the Adult Internet to launch the first major offensive? Not only will the patent be on trial but you can be sure Acacia will put us on trial as well. Never underestimate the enemy. Do you think it was coincidence they picked 5 companies of who NONE turned up? Or just good strategy? Spike you have mail. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

07-27-2003, 03:31 AM	#49
sexeducation So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Calgary - Alberta - Canada Posts: 7,315	These things can just "snowball" if not handled carefully. It appears IMPAI.org needs money from anyone who wishes to disseminate information online in a "streaming" format. It's time for ACACIA to come out of the "closet" and fight players of equal strength to have this resolved. IMPAI.org must be just as strong as ACACIA or it will lose regardless of being right or not.