rackshack.net what you guys think - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

candyflip · 07-20-2003, 08:45 AM

I just did a price compare, Lens...you guys are way off. But that's just my opinion.

From Rackshack:
DELL DUAL XEON
1 GB RAM
(2) 73 GB Hard Drives / 10,000 RPM SCSI
Un-metered 10 mbps Network Connection!

$499 + $1 setup

From JupiterHosting (Design a custom plan thingy)
DELL DUAL XEON
1 GB RAM
1 80 GB Hard Drive
10 mbps

$1,079 + $98 setup

Can someone explain the benefits of paying twice the price just to have it "managed"?

AdultKing · 07-20-2003, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by candyflip

Can someone explain the benefits of paying twice the price just to have it "managed"?

There is no benefit if you can admin your own server, in fact if you can admin your own server the only thing you need is someone to press the reset button once in a blue moon!

webair · 07-20-2003, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lensman
Not to mention Rackshack supplies shitty Cogent bandwidth. Get a real host.

wow did you just say that? haha

Pointless - contact me bro we'll set you up right

candyflip · 07-20-2003, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OzMedia

There is no benefit if you can admin your own server, in fact if you can admin your own server the only thing you need is someone to press the reset button once in a blue moon!

I know

Was just hoping to hear Lensman tell us why Jupiter is so great that we should pay twice as much for their services. So far I haven't seen anything to back this up.

kmanrox · 07-20-2003, 08:58 AM

a good host doesnt have to bash other hosts.... so you all are making yourselves look silly IMHO...

Groove · 07-20-2003, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by candyflip

I know

Was just hoping to hear Lensman tell us why Jupiter is so great that we should pay twice as much for their services. So far I haven't seen anything to back this up.

I'm a member of the Rackshack cheer squad. But candyflip, it might have been better if you'd not used the unmetered 10mbps boxes in your comparison since the 10mbps plans ARE cogent, whereas all of the othe plans (ie the plans used by 99% of their customers) are NOT. Also I'm guessing (?) that the Jupiter box is a burstable 10mbps whereas the Rackshack box isn't.

candyflip · 07-20-2003, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groove

I'm a member of the Rackshack cheer squad. But candyflip, it might have been better if you'd not used the unmetered 10mbps boxes in your comparison since the 10mbps plans ARE cogent, whereas all of the othe plans (ie the plans used by 99% of their customers) are NOT.

I was just doing a spec for spec setup. I have no issue with the bandwidth being cogent, and a few others don't seem to have issue either.

Lensman said "get a real host", I'm assuming he meant Jupiter. Is a server setup worth twice as much being non-cogent and managed?

Lensman · 07-20-2003, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by candyflip
I just did a price compare, Lens...you guys are way off. But that's just my opinion.

From Rackshack:
DELL DUAL XEON
1 GB RAM
(2) 73 GB Hard Drives / 10,000 RPM SCSI
Un-metered 10 mbps Network Connection!

$499 + $1 setup

From JupiterHosting (Design a custom plan thingy)
DELL DUAL XEON
1 GB RAM
1 80 GB Hard Drive
10 mbps

$1,079 + $98 setup

Can someone explain the benefits of paying twice the price just to have it "managed"?

Are you comparing their "unavailable" 10mb non-managed Cogent package?

I also see you ignore the "Discount is Available,
contact us here" message on the Jupiter page.

liquidmoe · 07-20-2003, 09:19 AM

Not commenting on whether or not rackshack uses cogent but using non-cogent bandwidth is more expensive since upstream providers charge higher rates than what cogent charges, hence customers also get higher rates. The managed portion probably affects prices a bit, but that depends on the host, and also depends on what kind of level of managed you are getting for free or inclusive with your monthly fees. But really bandwidth would be the main difference and depending on rates could be twice as much. The other factor is perhaps server rent.

Groove · 07-20-2003, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by candyflip
I was just doing a spec for spec setup. I have no issue with the bandwidth being cogent, and a few others don't seem to have issue either.

Lensman said "get a real host", I'm assuming he meant Jupiter. Is a server setup worth twice as much being non-cogent and managed?

Earlier in this thread Lens was trying to discredit Rackshack by saying that they used cogent bandwidth. Whereas the truth is that (to the best of my knowledge) Rackshack only uses Cogent with their unmetered 10mbps plans.

If you're going to compare prices you should really be comparing apples with apples, ie you should be nominating a plan that is is non-cogent (eg any plan but the 10mbps plans), where the box has identical specs and where they offer identical bandwidth.

Maybe Lens could give us a price on a P4 2.0 Ghz, 512MB RAM, 80GB HD, 700GB bandwidth running Redhat. At Rackshack that'll set you back $129/month with a $1 set-up fee. Then if you want it to be fully managed you can go to easyservermanagement.com and pay an extra $99/month which gives us a total of $228/month plus a $1 setup fee.

What would Jupiter charge for the same deal?

49thParallel · 07-20-2003, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lensman

Are you comparing their "unavailable" 10mb non-managed Cogent package?

I also see you ignore the "Discount is Available,
contact us here" message on the Jupiter page.

Fact is, the original response to this thread has all the makings of unfair mudslinging and misinformation. A proper business response would have been something to the effect of, " Each company handles different needs. Call us and we can show you why our company might be the best for your needs".

Instead, we have an onslaught of half truths and blatant false statements.

And why make folks call for "discounts"? Rackshack and others already have their lowest price listed...no surprises...no negotiating required.

candyflip · 07-20-2003, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lensman

Are you comparing their "unavailable" 10mb non-managed Cogent package?

I also see you ignore the "Discount is Available,
contact us here" message on the Jupiter page.

I just go by what I see. I didn't have to ask Rackshack for a discount.

Lensman · 07-20-2003, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groove

Earlier in this thread Lens was trying to discredit Rackshack by saying that they used cogent bandwidth. Whereas the truth is that (to the best of my knowledge) Rackshack only uses Cogent with their unmetered 10mbps plans.

If you're going to compare prices you should really be comparing apples with apples, ie you should be nominating a plan that is is non-cogent (eg any plan but the 10mbps plans), where the box has identical specs and where they offer identical bandwidth.

Maybe Lens could give us a price on a P4 2.0 Ghz, 512MB RAM, 80GB HD, 700GB bandwidth running Redhat. At Rackshack that'll set you back $129/month with a $1 set-up fee. Then if you want it to be fully managed you can go to easyservermanagement.com and pay an extra $99/month which gives us a total of $228/month plus a $1 setup fee. What would Jupiter charge for the same deal?

Fully managed FreeBSD machine with 700gb transfer, $199/mo.

candyflip · 07-20-2003, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groove

Maybe Lens could give us a price on a P4 2.0 Ghz, 512MB RAM, 80GB HD, 700GB bandwidth running Redhat. At Rackshack that'll set you back $129/month with a $1 set-up fee. Then if you want it to be fully managed you can go to easyservermanagement.com and pay an extra $99/month which gives us a total of $228/month plus a $1 setup fee.

What would Jupiter charge for the same deal?

According to their "Custom Plan Designer", Jupiter will do the same setup with 300 GB for $274 + $98 for setup. They want $179 for the 300 GB, so boost the total GB to 600 and you're paying $453 per month plus setup charges...and you're still minus 100 GB of transfer.

Groove · 07-20-2003, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lensman
Fully managed FreeBSD machine with 700gb transfer, $199/mo.

That's a nice price

But why does the Jupiter site say $179/month plus $98 setup with only 300GB?

easyjesus · 07-20-2003, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by completetosser

I've got a Rackshack box which originally had cpanel...... I couldn't figure out how to use it at all so I got them to reinstall a plain box and I do the admin either with Webmin or from the command line.

Rackshack servers are great if you know what you're doing, but like Groove says if you've never managed a server, Rackshack is not for you.

when I got my first one, I had never managaed a server, and ive had no problems at all... all you gotta do is follow the howto's on there forums and your set!

TheSaint · 07-20-2003, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lensman

Fully managed FreeBSD machine with 700gb transfer, $199/mo.

Thats a nice price. You guys should lighten up on Lens a little, you are comparing a fully managed service here vs. an unmanaged one.

Course, he brought it on himself with his mistatements about Rackshack.

The best way for ISPs like Jupiter to compete with Rackshack is to stress the value of the management. In my opinion about half or more of the people with Rackshack servers should have them taken away. They know nothing about Linux, don't keep current on critical updates and jeopardize the whole server farm when they get taken over for spam or DOS attacks.

And invariably they crybaby all over the place when they loose their server.

The industry has a place for both managed and unmanaged servers. When I hear people say how easy it is to manage rackshack servers its a clue they don't know what they are doing.

Proper linux administration takes a lot of time each month. If its totally 100% easy you are skipping some important things.

darksoul · 07-20-2003, 10:20 AM

Although I have a FreeBSD machine @ rackshack which
hasn't had any problems (yet),
rackshack its far from what is this days a good host.
The only thing I like at rackshack its the stability of their network,
the best I've seen so far.
But thats not the only thing that matters, at least from where
I'm standing.
The most horrible stories I've heard come from rackshack.
One of the parts where rackshack sucks is that if you fuckup
on a server your only option is a clean restore,
so think twice before starting to play the admin.
They can unplug your server due to a billing error
or an attack targeted to your server, I surely wouldn't
want that to happen especially when I'm on vacation.
But can I trust rackshack for not fucking up my vacation ?
most certainly not.
This shits happen to maybe only 10% of their customers
but are you ready to be one of them ?
Are you ready to wake one moring with all your shit gone ?
If thats how much your biz worths for you, go for it.
The fact is most of the people would want everything for
as cheap as possible, they wouldn't mind if its free.
its just one thing they keep forgeting:

"YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" (especially when its cheap).

candyflip · 07-20-2003, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSaint

Thats a nice price. You guys should lighten up on Lens a little, you are comparing a fully managed service here vs. an unmanaged one.

Exactly...and my question was:

What are the benefits of managed hosting that justify paying 100% more?

Rui · 07-20-2003, 10:25 AM

Lets face it, RS is more stable (connection wise, estabilished,etc..)!

Comparing RS to XFR is just....funny, XFR is way out of RS league (if you know how to admin a server that is)...

darksoul · 07-20-2003, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groove
Then if you want it to be fully managed you can go to easyservermanagement.com and pay an extra $99/month

Is this what you call "fully managed" ?:

"Included Monthly Services:
24/7 support via Trouble Ticket
Up to 10 hours of Systems Administration work per month per server
5 hours are allocated automatically to security and service monitoring.
Installation of Modules as per requirements of 3rd party software
Consultation via Trouble Ticket regarding future hardware/software purchases
Assistance with installation of many third party software (list to be provided soon)

Overage:
In any month when time is to exceed the 10 hour package:
Prior written approval will be required from the client unless a pre-authorized "not to exceed" time period has been established. All additional hours will be billed at the normal shop rate of $65.00 USD/hour. "

Or did you even read the specs of their package ?

this gives an idea how much of a clue you have about the things
you're saying.

Wilbo · 07-20-2003, 12:09 PM

I've got 2 Rackshack servers and they are great for uptime. I had a 3rd with Enism, but that was like learning another OS. I just get the plain RedHat servers and tweak them the way I want them.

Lensman · 07-20-2003, 12:15 PM

I don't know why you guys think I am misrepresenting them? All I said was they supply Cogent, I didn't say the only supply Cogent.

Like I said, if you don't need much BW and can take care of yourself all the time, go for it. If you're capable with Unix, it looks like a great deal.

If you need more than a couple of megabits, you should look around.

On another note: Candyflip, stop comparing a Cogent price to non-Cogent. It's starting to annoy me.

FreeHugeMovies · 07-20-2003, 12:16 PM

I directly reported a spammer to them and they did nothing to take down their site.

Bucho · 07-20-2003, 12:21 PM

well, this thread should put an end to the RS slandering...By now all can see that they have:

1) A good strong network with good uptime
2) Pretty ok support, though not managed
3) No cogent, not from or to box (only cogent in the 10mbs box).
4) Prices that are hard to match

If anyone can give me a DELL server with:
Dual XEON
1 gig ram
2x 73gb SCSI disks
Cpanel
and 1200 gb of non cogent traffic
24/7 support/reboots
Price $259/month
Setup $1

Then tell me, id be happy to check it out (no shit, i dont like to put all my egs in one basket, and i need new servers all the time)

VirtuMike · 07-20-2003, 01:15 PM

I have ZERO interest in hosting other peoples' sites. I currently do not compete in this market, and have nothing to gain or lose if you go with rackshack. Frankly I really don't care either way.

HOWEVER,

I had such a bad experience at Rackshack I would never recommend them to anyone. I pulled my sites from rackshack and moved to Webair and they are humming along quite nicely. And a real host doesn't cost that much more in the long run. If Jupiter is only a couple hundred bucks more, go with it. Webair's probably in the same ballpark, I'd recommend them. Hell, Natnet is probably a little above that too, I'd look at them also.

And for the record, I never saw a big problem with the Cogent, my problem has always been with rackshack's facilities, their support, and billing. We had severe outages. They were in fact the fault of rackshack. I did a risk assessment and pulled the plug.

Look at rackshack's links - you have almost all their bandwidth on cogent, williams, TW, and verio. None of them are very good. The best of that bunch is Verio and they're a sinking ship. They laid everyone competent off - I have a T1 with them and you should call support there sometime during an outage. True you gain stability when you bgp them together but there's still latency on failure. None of their uplinks have any respectable international peering except for Verio, who does well only with Japan. They're not using any good providers like Global Crossing, Sprint, AT&T, or C&W. Those are the hitters with the reliability and international peering.

I've been in the industry for 8 years now, and I do know a thing or two about hosting. When you scale up to a size where hosting becomes an issue, you will too. The downside is that you have to be vigilant in your decisions or you won't get over the hump everyone faces. And one of the worst things you can do is get blacklisted due to server issues.

candyflip · 07-20-2003, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lensman
Not to mention Rackshack supplies shitty Cogent bandwidth. Get a real host.

The server that was initially mentioned was non-cogent, and you made the remark above. We love you Lens, but you're the one who put your foot in your mouth here.

Quote:

Originally posted by Lensman
I don't know why you guys think I am misrepresenting them? All I said was they supply Cogent, I didn't say the only supply Cogent.

Like I said, if you don't need much BW and can take care of yourself all the time, go for it. If you're capable with Unix, it looks like a great deal.

If you need more than a couple of megabits, you should look around.

On another note: Candyflip, stop comparing a Cogent price to non-Cogent. It's starting to annoy me.

Cogent is only on their 10mbps servers. You point out to me that they didn't have any available. The last prices I quoted were for non-cogent. You were still more than twice the price. Sorry if I'm annoying you...you're the ones who are overcharging. I'm just trying to figure out why someone would pay 100% more just to have it managed. You're not going to ban me for "annoying" you are you?

Wilbo · 07-20-2003, 01:27 PM

I read on the Rackshack board that the 10mbps plans weren't all Congent, but they reserve the right to make them so if they desire. This was from Headsurfer himself.

Rui · 07-20-2003, 02:34 PM

Lensman - like was said Congent is only used if its the fastest route available and in the 10Mbps servers!

BTW since you are comparing yourself as RS (and ofering a better solution) can you tell us what BW providers u use for the backbone of XFR?

And if its better than this ;) :

http://www.rackshack.net/english/aboutus/networks.asp

There i can see:
Time Warner
Verio (5 gigabit links)
Allegiance (2 gigabit links)
MFN (3 GigE links)
Savis OC3
ELI D3 link...

guess what there is only 1 Cogent pipe ....so guess your teory is flawed!

mach · 07-20-2003, 11:45 PM

interesting read

DirkG · 07-21-2003, 12:44 AM

Manage, manage, manage..
So whats that mean exactly?
I log into my server and install apache updates with one command line. I install modules with a push of a button. I just logged in a few days ago and it told me to update my kernal due to security problems, which I will do in the morning.
What am I missing? That doesnt seem to be much and to hear some guys talk about it, you would think its rocket science.

AdultKing · 07-21-2003, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DirkG
Manage, manage, manage..
So whats that mean exactly?
I log into my server and install apache updates with one command line. I install modules with a push of a button. I just logged in a few days ago and it told me to update my kernal due to security problems, which I will do in the morning.
What am I missing? That doesnt seem to be much and to hear some guys talk about it, you would think its rocket science.

So what would you do if someone installed a rootkit on your server ?

Keeping the os up to date and keeping the system running efficiently/securely are two different things.

Bucho · 07-21-2003, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DirkG
Manage, manage, manage..
So whats that mean exactly?
I log into my server and install apache updates with one command line. I install modules with a push of a button. I just logged in a few days ago and it told me to update my kernal due to security problems, which I will do in the morning.
What am I missing? That doesnt seem to be much and to hear some guys talk about it, you would think its rocket science.

dont think its the actual management, but more the Tweaking and optimization of apache, mysql etc. that scares ppl.
Also, if (when) things fuck up its nice to have someone next to the box that can actually fix your stuff, and get you up again.

I manage my own servers as well, and with the cpanel/up2date combo its really a walk in the park. However, I do understand why someone would prefer to have someone else handling their servers.

VirtuMike · 07-21-2003, 01:19 AM

We have over 40 servers (that I know of) at multiple facilities on multiple backbones running five different operating systems with multiple versions. We have several switches and routers. We have firewalls. Not a day goes by that someone doesn't discover new security holes and we are at constant war with hackers. Even the routers have security holes.

I am planning on buying parts for another six more servers this week so we'll have them as soon as I get back from Miami. I build most of them myself, and have finger scars and arctic silver stains to prove it.

There is NO way I could manage these things. We have a full time sysadmin and he's overworked. This is NOT an easy business. And there's no way we'd put up with a second rate host.

Pointless · 07-21-2003, 01:23 AM

i can handle my own affairs so by reading the above posts they seem like a good option

DirkG · 07-21-2003, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OzMedia

So what would you do if someone installed a rootkit on your server ?

Keeping the os up to date and keeping the system running efficiently/securely are two different things.

Format and reinstall.
I'm reading up on rootkits now. They seem interestingly fun. Maybe I'll go hide some things from myself.

Boy I can remember when it was actually work to find this stuff out and when I did find it much of it was wrong. But that was before www when we were still using gopher and archie.

Groove · 07-21-2003, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DirkG
Manage, manage, manage..
So whats that mean exactly?

Well apparently darksoul is the man to ask about that. He's our self-appointed expert on "managed server" definitions. But in my humble (and allegedly limited) experience I've seen that the definition vary from host-to-host. Some contracts are extremely flexible and generous, while others have more exclusions than a dodgy insurance contract. So it pays to read the fineprint before ordering your server.

As for whether management represents good value to you, that depends on your level of technical expertise and what you're attempting to do with your server. Some admin tasks like running Rehat's up2date are exrtremely easy, whereas others such as doing a security audit, configuring a firewall, modifying a database, or installing some types of software can be extremely complicated and/or potentially hazardous. Anyone who thinks that server admin is always simple should probably opt for managed because they clearly don't know much about servers.

As for the whole managed verses unmanaged debate, I think that hosts should offer BOTH and let the customer choose. Some customers simply don't want management or need it, so why pay for it? As for bandwidth, potentially the largest expense -- I think that hosts should offer a range of pricing models for bandwidth eg tiered average use, per gig, capped pipes, 95th percentile etc and let the customer decide what model best suits their needs.

rsharp · 07-21-2003, 01:42 AM

I've never had any issues with rackshack whatsoever. They recently upped the included bandwidth on a bunch of their packages. When they had a transformer blow up on June 2nd and kept everything together I gained a good deal of respect for them.

Managed is usefull considering many managed hosting places will get on their knees to solve your issues when they occur, and get things squared away fast. The time it may save you can make up for the management fee (depending on what your time is worth) pretty fast

darksoul: I didn't know rackshack had FreeBSD boxes. Could you link me to some info on that?

BigPinPin · 07-21-2003, 12:52 PM

we use rackshack a longer time, all what i can say: Good stuff, good price

webair · 07-22-2003, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DirkG
Manage, manage, manage..
So whats that mean exactly?
I log into my server and install apache updates with one command line. I install modules with a push of a button. I just logged in a few days ago and it told me to update my kernal due to security problems, which I will do in the morning.
What am I missing? That doesnt seem to be much and to hear some guys talk about it, you would think its rocket science.

Managed services include:

· 24/7 managed support
· Full server setup and testing
· Managed services include: reboots, software installs, server builds & rebuilds
· Hardware & software diagnostics & monitoring
· Server Performance Evaluations
· 24/7 remote monitoring provided to client
· 24/7 On-site monitoring webair.com personnel
· IP Provisioning if required
· DNS Administration
· PDU access reboot (remote reboots)
· Bandwidth monitoring & calculation tools including MRTG charts

plus so much more...if you dont know how to admin a server managed is the way to go in my opinion...

piece of mind

Smegma · 07-22-2003, 10:21 AM

I can go on for days about rackshack. A company where the bottom line takes precidence over all else.

Did you know that you share an uplink with 24 to 48 other servers? That they so non-ISO compliant with hardware, it would be laughable if it wasn't so sad?

Check it out for yourselves. See that little black box on top of all the servers? That's a "rackmount" switch or a hub, and yes that's you and 48 of your closest friends pluged into it.

Desktops as servers? Have they never heard of propper ISO cooling and ventilation? I wonder why we here the number one complaint is hardware failure.. this is where your hosting your business?

Please explain how hosting your business at the above location is good for your business?

I think I speak for other hosts when I say that this is a joke. I'm not pissed that rackshack undercuts pricing, with 1000s of competitors, you cant, but I do feel bad for customers who don't know enough about IT and trust a business to this infrastructure.

07-20-2003, 08:45 AM	#51
candyflip Carpe Visio Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New York Posts: 43,064	I just did a price compare, Lens...you guys are way off. But that's just my opinion. From Rackshack: DELL DUAL XEON 1 GB RAM (2) 73 GB Hard Drives / 10,000 RPM SCSI Un-metered 10 mbps Network Connection! $499 + $1 setup From JupiterHosting (Design a custom plan thingy) DELL DUAL XEON 1 GB RAM 1 80 GB Hard Drive 10 mbps $1,079 + $98 setup Can someone explain the benefits of paying twice the price just to have it "managed"? __________________ Spend you some brain. Email Me

07-20-2003, 08:58 AM	#55
kmanrox aka K-Man Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Gutter Posts: 29,292	a good host doesnt have to bash other hosts.... so you all are making yourselves look silly IMHO... __________________ Crypto HODLr Crypto mining Angel investor

07-20-2003, 10:20 AM	#68
darksoul Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: /root/ Posts: 4,997	Although I have a FreeBSD machine @ rackshack which hasn't had any problems (yet), rackshack its far from what is this days a good host. The only thing I like at rackshack its the stability of their network, the best I've seen so far. But thats not the only thing that matters, at least from where I'm standing. The most horrible stories I've heard come from rackshack. One of the parts where rackshack sucks is that if you fuckup on a server your only option is a clean restore, so think twice before starting to play the admin. They can unplug your server due to a billing error or an attack targeted to your server, I surely wouldn't want that to happen especially when I'm on vacation. But can I trust rackshack for not fucking up my vacation ? most certainly not. This shits happen to maybe only 10% of their customers but are you ready to be one of them ? Are you ready to wake one moring with all your shit gone ? If thats how much your biz worths for you, go for it. The fact is most of the people would want everything for as cheap as possible, they wouldn't mind if its free. its just one thing they keep forgeting: "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" (especially when its cheap). __________________ 1337 5y54\|)m1n: 157717888 BM-2cUBw4B2fgiYAfjkE7JvWaJMiUXD96n9tN Cambooth

07-20-2003, 12:21 PM	#75
Bucho Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 578	well, this thread should put an end to the RS slandering...By now all can see that they have: 1) A good strong network with good uptime 2) Pretty ok support, though not managed 3) No cogent, not from or to box (only cogent in the 10mbs box). 4) Prices that are hard to match If anyone can give me a DELL server with: Dual XEON 1 gig ram 2x 73gb SCSI disks Cpanel and 1200 gb of non cogent traffic 24/7 support/reboots Price $259/month Setup $1 Then tell me, id be happy to check it out (no shit, i dont like to put all my egs in one basket, and i need new servers all the time) __________________ ICQ: 4646141 Last edited by Bucho; 07-20-2003 at 12:44 PM..

07-20-2003, 01:15 PM	#76
VirtuMike Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Seat 1A Posts: 2,483	I have ZERO interest in hosting other peoples' sites. I currently do not compete in this market, and have nothing to gain or lose if you go with rackshack. Frankly I really don't care either way. HOWEVER, I had such a bad experience at Rackshack I would never recommend them to anyone. I pulled my sites from rackshack and moved to Webair and they are humming along quite nicely. And a real host doesn't cost that much more in the long run. If Jupiter is only a couple hundred bucks more, go with it. Webair's probably in the same ballpark, I'd recommend them. Hell, Natnet is probably a little above that too, I'd look at them also. And for the record, I never saw a big problem with the Cogent, my problem has always been with rackshack's facilities, their support, and billing. We had severe outages. They were in fact the fault of rackshack. I did a risk assessment and pulled the plug. Look at rackshack's links - you have almost all their bandwidth on cogent, williams, TW, and verio. None of them are very good. The best of that bunch is Verio and they're a sinking ship. They laid everyone competent off - I have a T1 with them and you should call support there sometime during an outage. True you gain stability when you bgp them together but there's still latency on failure. None of their uplinks have any respectable international peering except for Verio, who does well only with Japan. They're not using any good providers like Global Crossing, Sprint, AT&T, or C&W. Those are the hitters with the reliability and international peering. I've been in the industry for 8 years now, and I do know a thing or two about hosting. When you scale up to a size where hosting becomes an issue, you will too. The downside is that you have to be vigilant in your decisions or you won't get over the hump everyone faces. And one of the worst things you can do is get blacklisted due to server issues. __________________ Host it in AMSTERDAM at EUROTIVITY! - We also offer BACKUP SERVICES! XYZZY4L

07-20-2003, 09:19 AM	#59
liquidmoe Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 4,994	Not commenting on whether or not rackshack uses cogent but using non-cogent bandwidth is more expensive since upstream providers charge higher rates than what cogent charges, hence customers also get higher rates. The managed portion probably affects prices a bit, but that depends on the host, and also depends on what kind of level of managed you are getting for free or inclusive with your monthly fees. But really bandwidth would be the main difference and depending on rates could be twice as much. The other factor is perhaps server rent.

07-20-2003, 10:25 AM	#70
Rui web Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: On icq: 85-483-060 Posts: 9,533	Lets face it, RS is more stable (connection wise, estabilished,etc..)! Comparing RS to XFR is just....funny, XFR is way out of RS league (if you know how to admin a server that is)...

07-20-2003, 12:09 PM	#72
Wilbo Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Baltimore Posts: 2,082	I've got 2 Rackshack servers and they are great for uptime. I had a 3rd with Enism, but that was like learning another OS. I just get the plain RedHat servers and tweak them the way I want them.

07-20-2003, 12:15 PM	#73
Lensman GFY Chaperone Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Adult.com Posts: 9,846	I don't know why you guys think I am misrepresenting them? All I said was they supply Cogent, I didn't say the only supply Cogent. Like I said, if you don't need much BW and can take care of yourself all the time, go for it. If you're capable with Unix, it looks like a great deal. If you need more than a couple of megabits, you should look around. On another note: Candyflip, stop comparing a Cogent price to non-Cogent. It's starting to annoy me.

07-20-2003, 12:16 PM	#74
FreeHugeMovies Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 14,137	I directly reported a spammer to them and they did nothing to take down their site.

07-20-2003, 01:27 PM	#78
Wilbo Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Baltimore Posts: 2,082	I read on the Rackshack board that the 10mbps plans weren't all Congent, but they reserve the right to make them so if they desire. This was from Headsurfer himself.

07-20-2003, 02:34 PM	#79
Rui web Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: On icq: 85-483-060 Posts: 9,533	Lensman - like was said Congent is only used if its the fastest route available and in the 10Mbps servers! BTW since you are comparing yourself as RS (and ofering a better solution) can you tell us what BW providers u use for the backbone of XFR? And if its better than this ;) : http://www.rackshack.net/english/aboutus/networks.asp There i can see: Time Warner Verio (5 gigabit links) Allegiance (2 gigabit links) MFN (3 GigE links) Savis OC3 ELI D3 link... guess what there is only 1 Cogent pipe ....so guess your teory is flawed!

07-20-2003, 11:45 PM	#80
mach Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 281	interesting read

07-21-2003, 12:44 AM	#81
DirkG Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 289	Manage, manage, manage.. So whats that mean exactly? I log into my server and install apache updates with one command line. I install modules with a push of a button. I just logged in a few days ago and it told me to update my kernal due to security problems, which I will do in the morning. What am I missing? That doesnt seem to be much and to hear some guys talk about it, you would think its rocket science.

07-21-2003, 01:19 AM	#84
VirtuMike Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Seat 1A Posts: 2,483	We have over 40 servers (that I know of) at multiple facilities on multiple backbones running five different operating systems with multiple versions. We have several switches and routers. We have firewalls. Not a day goes by that someone doesn't discover new security holes and we are at constant war with hackers. Even the routers have security holes. I am planning on buying parts for another six more servers this week so we'll have them as soon as I get back from Miami. I build most of them myself, and have finger scars and arctic silver stains to prove it. There is NO way I could manage these things. We have a full time sysadmin and he's overworked. This is NOT an easy business. And there's no way we'd put up with a second rate host. __________________ Host it in AMSTERDAM at EUROTIVITY! - We also offer BACKUP SERVICES! XYZZY4L

07-21-2003, 01:23 AM	#85
Pointless Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,142	i can handle my own affairs so by reading the above posts they seem like a good option __________________ 355 north Adultdatelink.com

07-21-2003, 01:42 AM	#88
rsharp Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 17	I've never had any issues with rackshack whatsoever. They recently upped the included bandwidth on a bunch of their packages. When they had a transformer blow up on June 2nd and kept everything together I gained a good deal of respect for them. Managed is usefull considering many managed hosting places will get on their knees to solve your issues when they occur, and get things squared away fast. The time it may save you can make up for the management fee (depending on what your time is worth) pretty fast darksoul: I didn't know rackshack had FreeBSD boxes. Could you link me to some info on that?

07-21-2003, 12:52 PM	#89
BigPinPin Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Spain Posts: 894	we use rackshack a longer time, all what i can say: Good stuff, good price

07-22-2003, 10:21 AM	#91
Smegma Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,751	I can go on for days about rackshack. A company where the bottom line takes precidence over all else. Did you know that you share an uplink with 24 to 48 other servers? That they so non-ISO compliant with hardware, it would be laughable if it wasn't so sad? Check it out for yourselves. See that little black box on top of all the servers? That's a "rackmount" switch or a hub, and yes that's you and 48 of your closest friends pluged into it. Desktops as servers? Have they never heard of propper ISO cooling and ventilation? I wonder why we here the number one complaint is hardware failure.. this is where your hosting your business? Please explain how hosting your business at the above location is good for your business? I think I speak for other hosts when I say that this is a joke. I'm not pissed that rackshack undercuts pricing, with 1000s of competitors, you cant, but I do feel bad for customers who don't know enough about IT and trust a business to this infrastructure. Last edited by Smegma; 07-22-2003 at 10:27 AM..