1% chargeback probelm - GoFuckYourself.com

bigdog · 07-02-2003, 05:10 AM

for the smaller paysites guys whats preventing them for signing up for a couple free trials every day with their own credit cards so they can keep under the 1%

Paul Markham · 07-02-2003, 05:15 AM

I think this will be a good thing once the initial shock is over.

It will mean websites will have to deliver what they promise, make the CANCEL MEMBERSHIP button very visible and generally improve the service.

The credit card copmanies work on a business model of satisfying the client a lot of sites in this industry work on the model, the surfers and idiot and you can take him for as much as possible.

Less bad websites, means more surfers and more money for those left.

Brown Bear · 07-02-2003, 05:22 AM

I have no sympathy for paysite owners that have high chargeback ratios.

Nydahl · 07-02-2003, 05:23 AM

My CC processor keeps 25000USD of mine as a holdback for our chargeback ratio - far higher then 1%
We had one fucker who made tons of transactions with stolen CC

bigdog · 07-02-2003, 05:27 AM

funny i doin't see people running dos attacks on each other. I see them now running stiolen credit cards through one's paysite to get them shut down

JDog · 07-02-2003, 05:29 AM

That's what Babenet did. They went over seas and got like 5000 credit cards did $1 trial everyday on each card. I think it was more like 500.

jDOG

grampatex · 07-02-2003, 06:16 AM

hey sean. making good friends huh.

Kimmykim · 07-02-2003, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigdog
for the smaller paysites guys whats preventing them for signing up for a couple free trials every day with their own credit cards so they can keep under the 1%

They'd better have a bunch of cards, since repeatedly using their own sends up a fraud flag...

detoxed · 07-02-2003, 12:50 PM

My new service: Joining your paysite for $5.95 or cheaper trails for $10 each. Must be cancelled and not recur

models · 07-02-2003, 01:04 PM

It is true that adult websites should not scam their customers.

But for webmasters who run masturbatory type websites it is VERY tough to stay under 1% chargeback ratio for any length of time---even those sites with good content. After the load is shot the appeal is mostly gone. This is an impulse sale to the max.

I have never seen a good explanation of WHY it is necessary for the card companies to fine or otherwise penalize their merchants when 1% is exceeded. It is the webmaster who pays a "chargeback" fee to absorb this administrative cost.

It is the webmaster who loses when some clown with a high speed connection uses his wife's card to signup at 1am to signup so he can blast a load, and then wifey calls when she gets her bill and bounces the charge.

Who loses? Visa or M/C, no. It is the WEBMASTER who loses!

And, do other retail merchants get hit with these penalties when they take credit cards. I don't think so.

Somethin' ain't right here.

SykkBoy · 07-02-2003, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
I think this will be a good thing once the initial shock is over.

It will mean websites will have to deliver what they promise, make the CANCEL MEMBERSHIP button very visible and generally improve the service.

The credit card copmanies work on a business model of satisfying the client a lot of sites in this industry work on the model, the surfers and idiot and you can take him for as much as possible.

Less bad websites, means more surfers and more money for those left.

Sometimes your cluelessness amuses me.

I have a friend who sells sports paraphenelia online and his chargebacks are at 2% and he actually sells physical items.

I have a cousin who sells sheet music, guitar tabs, etc. online and his chargebacks are almost 2%.

When you del with something as taboo as porn, it's worse. You get the obligatory hubby who joins Teen Anal Fistfucking and his wife sees the charge and screams "what the fuck is this?" and tada another chargeback is created.

Maybe if you actually had ANY experience running a paysite, you might understand these types of things a little more. It has very little to do with confusing terms and hidden cancel buttons (although those can obviously add to the problem). It has everything to do with Visa allowing people to chargeback so easily and paysite owners having NO recourse.

XYCash · 07-02-2003, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SykkBoy2

It has very little to do with confusing terms and hidden cancel buttons (although those can obviously add to the problem). It has everything to do with Visa allowing people to chargeback so easily and paysite owners having NO recourse.

Bingo!

basschick · 07-02-2003, 01:54 PM

anything bought online where the person doesn't actually have to show the credit card lets guys claim someone else used it.

Rochard · 07-02-2003, 02:04 PM

I have a question that needs to be addressed: What about the charge back ratio on none adult internet sites, and brick and mortar businesses?

My wife used to manage a Ross department store; Their charge back ratio was much higher than 1%.

At the same time, this could be good for the industry - It might finally push out the people who are running sites looking for a quick buck. People pulling sneaky shit like hiding cancel pages and sites with crappy member's areas are gonna be gone overnight.

lim_joe · 07-02-2003, 02:22 PM

If you guys are talking about paysite I would say the chance is higher.. But for me this idiot webmasters use fake credit cards and bought templates form my site. I got hit over $5,000.00

This fuckers got my templates and use different cc and now i'm the one who is suffering.. My freakin merchant account closed my account which I had for 5 years for non-adult and this is my first time having this problem.

Then at the same time, AUTHORIZE.NET is not even secure enough to protect me because they said I should have signed for FRAUDSCREEN.NET so I can have more protection and then signup for another company to get $5,000 chargeback protection which is bullshit because this should be their responsibility.

I ended up opening a new merchant account for another company and their claiming that they have a huge database of fraud cc that will at least minimize the chargebacks. I hope so..

XYCash · 07-02-2003, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RocHard
I have a question that needs to be addressed: What about the charge back ratio on none adult internet sites, and brick and mortar businesses?

My wife used to manage a Ross department store; Their charge back ratio was much higher than 1%.

At the same time, this could be good for the industry - It might finally push out the people who are running sites looking for a quick buck. People pulling sneaky shit like hiding cancel pages and sites with crappy member's areas are gonna be gone overnight.

I found this article - dunno if adult is figured in there or not:

According to an Unterberg Towbin study in 1998, more than 50 percent of disputed (or potentially fraudulent) charges at the Visa European division came from Internet transactions. However, 'Net transactions represented only 2 percent of the division's total transaction volume.

A recent Gartner study stated that e-tailers typically incur online chargeback rates of 2.64%, with fraudulent or stolen credit cards accounting for 1.13% of this total

And the CyberSource Fraud 2000 Survey revealed that approximately 4% of total transactions over their system are fraudulent, but that this figure ranged from 0% to 40%.

http://sellitontheweb.com/ezine/opinion076.shtml

Honeyslut · 07-02-2003, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SykkBoy2

Sometimes your cluelessness amuses me.

I have a friend who sells sports paraphenelia online and his chargebacks are at 2% and he actually sells physical items.

I have a cousin who sells sheet music, guitar tabs, etc. online and his chargebacks are almost 2%.

When you del with something as taboo as porn, it's worse. You get the obligatory hubby who joins Teen Anal Fistfucking and his wife sees the charge and screams "what the fuck is this?" and tada another chargeback is created.

Maybe if you actually had ANY experience running a paysite, you might understand these types of things a little more. It has very little to do with confusing terms and hidden cancel buttons (although those can obviously add to the problem). It has everything to do with Visa allowing people to chargeback so easily and paysite owners having NO recourse.

If Visa made it a rule that one could not chargeback adult items on a card unless they can prove it was stolen, there would not be any fraud.. Surfers would think twice about joining a site they were unsure of

lim_joe · 07-02-2003, 02:38 PM

i wish paypal did not turn their back on adult

sumphatpimp · 07-02-2003, 03:21 PM

i really get the feeling that 6 months to a year from now and all adult transaction will be with dialers or some other form of payment, credit cards will be out of the picture for good.

Been looking at dialers myself. Seems though that most are affiliate programs. Don't need affiliate program, need a way for surfer to pay for my site.

I did notice Dialers Don't Chargeback!
You bought it its yours!
That I like.

NetRodent · 07-02-2003, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XYCash
A recent Gartner study stated that e-tailers typically incur online chargeback rates of 2.64%, with fraudulent or stolen credit cards accounting for 1.13% of this total

In otherwords, Visa wants high risk accounts to say under a 1% chargeback ratio but over 1.13% of the transactions their member banks approve are fraudulent?

<sarcasm>Anyone up for a class action suit against Visa for defrauding webmasters? They're authorizing sales that they should know are fraudulent. Their negligence is costing us money and tarnishing our reputation.</sarcasm>

John3 · 07-02-2003, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NetRodent

In otherwords, Visa wants high risk accounts to say under a 1% chargeback ratio but over 1.13% of the transactions their member banks approve are fraudulent?

<sarcasm>Anyone up for a class action suit against Visa for defrauding webmasters? They're authorizing sales that they should know are fraudulent. Their negligence is costing us money and tarnishing our reputation.</sarcasm>

I'm not so sure the sarcasm tags were necessary.

unconnected · 07-02-2003, 04:01 PM

Fuck that...
I have run paysites before, have been EXTREMELY clear on what the charges are and what they will be.. No free trial shit or anything like that..
Have cancel buttons all over the fucking place, and my chargeback % still got up to 2-3% sometimes.. and this is for an Ebony Gay site, which is a niche within a niche..

It just comes down to the fact that some customers dont' want to pay their bills for porn, and others bloody well know they can charge back anything they want and get away with it

07-02-2003, 05:10 AM	#1
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	1% chargeback probelm for the smaller paysites guys whats preventing them for signing up for a couple free trials every day with their own credit cards so they can keep under the 1%

07-02-2003, 05:15 AM	#2
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	I think this will be a good thing once the initial shock is over. It will mean websites will have to deliver what they promise, make the CANCEL MEMBERSHIP button very visible and generally improve the service. The credit card copmanies work on a business model of satisfying the client a lot of sites in this industry work on the model, the surfers and idiot and you can take him for as much as possible. Less bad websites, means more surfers and more money for those left. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

07-02-2003, 05:22 AM	#3
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	I have no sympathy for paysite owners that have high chargeback ratios. __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

07-02-2003, 05:23 AM	#4
Nydahl Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: closer then it appears Posts: 6,655	My CC processor keeps 25000USD of mine as a holdback for our chargeback ratio - far higher then 1% We had one fucker who made tons of transactions with stolen CC __________________ www.garciniatrio.com www.acaitrio.com www.greencoffeetrio.com ICQ 153918034 email [email protected]

07-02-2003, 05:29 AM	#6
JDog Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Canby, OR Posts: 7,453	That's what Babenet did. They went over seas and got like 5000 credit cards did $1 trial everyday on each card. I think it was more like 500. jDOG __________________ NSCash now powering ReelProfits.com ALSO FEATURING: NSCash.com :: SoloDollars.com :: ReelProfits.com :: BiminiBucks.com :: VOD PROGRAMS COMING SOON: Greedy Bucks :: Vengeance Cash NOW OFFERING OVER 60 SITES CONTACT :: JAMES SMITH :: CHIEF TECHNOLOGY OFFICER :: ICQ (711385133)

07-02-2003, 05:27 AM	#5
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	funny i doin't see people running dos attacks on each other. I see them now running stiolen credit cards through one's paysite to get them shut down

07-02-2003, 06:16 AM	#7
grampatex Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 21	hey sean. making good friends huh. __________________ grampatex

07-02-2003, 12:50 PM	#9
detoxed vip member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,798	My new service: Joining your paysite for $5.95 or cheaper trails for $10 each. Must be cancelled and not recur

07-02-2003, 01:04 PM	#10
models Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 118	It is true that adult websites should not scam their customers. But for webmasters who run masturbatory type websites it is VERY tough to stay under 1% chargeback ratio for any length of time---even those sites with good content. After the load is shot the appeal is mostly gone. This is an impulse sale to the max. I have never seen a good explanation of WHY it is necessary for the card companies to fine or otherwise penalize their merchants when 1% is exceeded. It is the webmaster who pays a "chargeback" fee to absorb this administrative cost. It is the webmaster who loses when some clown with a high speed connection uses his wife's card to signup at 1am to signup so he can blast a load, and then wifey calls when she gets her bill and bounces the charge. Who loses? Visa or M/C, no. It is the WEBMASTER who loses! And, do other retail merchants get hit with these penalties when they take credit cards. I don't think so. Somethin' ain't right here.

07-02-2003, 01:54 PM	#13
basschick Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: el lay, ca usa Posts: 2,540	anything bought online where the person doesn't actually have to show the credit card lets guys claim someone else used it.

07-02-2003, 02:04 PM	#14
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 75,733	I have a question that needs to be addressed: What about the charge back ratio on none adult internet sites, and brick and mortar businesses? My wife used to manage a Ross department store; Their charge back ratio was much higher than 1%. At the same time, this could be good for the industry - It might finally push out the people who are running sites looking for a quick buck. People pulling sneaky shit like hiding cancel pages and sites with crappy member's areas are gonna be gone overnight. __________________ Herschel Savage Brooklyn, NY

07-02-2003, 02:22 PM	#15
lim_joe Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 204	If you guys are talking about paysite I would say the chance is higher.. But for me this idiot webmasters use fake credit cards and bought templates form my site. I got hit over $5,000.00 This fuckers got my templates and use different cc and now i'm the one who is suffering.. My freakin merchant account closed my account which I had for 5 years for non-adult and this is my first time having this problem. Then at the same time, AUTHORIZE.NET is not even secure enough to protect me because they said I should have signed for FRAUDSCREEN.NET so I can have more protection and then signup for another company to get $5,000 chargeback protection which is bullshit because this should be their responsibility. I ended up opening a new merchant account for another company and their claiming that they have a huge database of fraud cc that will at least minimize the chargebacks. I hope so.. __________________ Lim_Joe^ http://www.bpwakeforest.com Spy Software and Instant Notification Alert Messages

07-02-2003, 02:38 PM	#18
lim_joe Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 204	i wish paypal did not turn their back on adult __________________ Lim_Joe^ http://www.bpwakeforest.com Spy Software and Instant Notification Alert Messages

07-02-2003, 03:21 PM	#19
sumphatpimp Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 5,235	i really get the feeling that 6 months to a year from now and all adult transaction will be with dialers or some other form of payment, credit cards will be out of the picture for good. Been looking at dialers myself. Seems though that most are affiliate programs. Don't need affiliate program, need a way for surfer to pay for my site. I did notice Dialers Don't Chargeback! You bought it its yours! That I like.

07-02-2003, 04:01 PM	#22
unconnected Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,025	Fuck that... I have run paysites before, have been EXTREMELY clear on what the charges are and what they will be.. No free trial shit or anything like that.. Have cancel buttons all over the fucking place, and my chargeback % still got up to 2-3% sometimes.. and this is for an Ebony Gay site, which is a niche within a niche.. It just comes down to the fact that some customers dont' want to pay their bills for porn, and others bloody well know they can charge back anything they want and get away with it __________________ "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989