Graphics Guys, Ever Get Stuck For Cash? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

AdultNex · 05-20-2003, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lil2rich4u2
hmm on another note ...

a graphics guy im using (wont name him) is doing a project for a certain site for me.

Today i went into his "clients" folder on his domain to see the status (he lets us go look)

Well in there i see this ...

/rich/project.html
/dan/project.html
/mike/project.html

Obviously all clients of his .... i found a site in another clients folder (ok i was nosey, sue me) and it had same sponsor, color, theme, and site name as the one he is making for me!

Basically all he did was change the layout for this other guy.

I have not confronted him about that, and im sure theres a reason or whatever.

BUT .... how does a customer prevent this?

How do i know your going to make me a $1k splash, and not change a few words and hand it to someone else?

Well, if the customer knows about this, if I were the client, I would immediately discuss this matter with the designer.

I can't believe this guy didn't use a client extranet like a professional would.

MarkTiarra · 05-20-2003, 06:25 PM

Alien, you are welcome at my house any time!

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
I must admit I hate other designers, I don't like hardly any of them.

Only 2 I think are "good".

Majority of designers out there do not know there value and the destruction they have caused on a valuable profession that is an incredible segment for the industry. The profession yeilded easily 6 figure incomes back in the day.

Now there are Pseudo designer's and posers everywhere with no respect for what there "services" generate or how hard they work for a measily 5 bucks. They leave the businessmen agrivated by building shit that does nothing often enough, they copy tours other peoples tours and resell em. Overall it is safe to say a majority of professional businessmen regard designers as the scum of the industry since they undersell themselves so badly.

It is odd to laugh and cry at the same time. However everytime I see a "designer" posting 20 banners for 5 bucks. What a dick, what a loser, what an idiot is all I can think.

lil2rich4u2 · 05-20-2003, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sextoyking
Lill,

that is bs totally, not the part about they look the same, well that is too, but for you to deal with, but for you to be able to see in his work dir. this designer should get a clue. People want there designs usually private until they release them to the public, webmasters, etc.

I will admit in the past when we did a portfolio update, we did include a couple of projects, that we later took out due to them not being released yet, our mistake and the client didn't make a big deal about it.

At the time i think i was his only client, there was only:

/rich

And no other names, so i think he didnt mind letting me have the URL. I think he doesnt remember i had it though, lol

Maybe i shouldnt have gone into /root .... but since i did, and i saw what i did .... he now has a problem on his hands when i talk to him.

However im farely easy going (sometimes too much so) that id prolly let him slide even if he did mirror it for another client ... lol im sooo soft!

sextoyking · 05-20-2003, 06:28 PM

Mark,

you know bro we have gone back and forth over the years on this guarentee thing.

Wasn't it something like 1-750 or 1 / 1000 or something. Hey, sure it's a good idea, but it's not like your offering 1/100 or 1/250.

You can't control someones good traffic, or bad traffic. We have had tons of our designs in the top 10 / top 20 converting out there. This is brain science, our project manager and team knows what works, usually. We have had a couple of clients in the past that couldn't do well with our design. I don't know forsure if it was us, him, his traffic, etc. Case by case basis I guess

lil2rich4u2 · 05-20-2003, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AdultNex

Well, if the customer knows about this, if I were the client, I would immediately discuss this matter with the designer.

I can't believe this guy didn't use a client extranet like a professional would.

although he is a great designer, not sure he is a professional designer by trade.

I asked him how much for a free site, he told me $45 each ... i said id take 75 of them, lol

Not sure he expected that kind of order, but i really liked his work.

LadyMischief · 05-20-2003, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

hehehe.... well yeah, I had a kind of a unique situation. I can't remember a single client ever telling me a design simply was bad or wrong or no good or anything like that... there's almost always some little changes or modifications, but everything I've ever done has come back a winner with the clients... nothing was ever delivered unapproved. My only problems were all non-payment issues, which was really out of my control.

It's not a hard concept: Client hires designer. Designer designs. Clients pays designer. designer delivers product. Why the payment part was overlooked in a few cases, I don't understand. But I always dealt with it one way or another. I usually gave more than generous time... in most cases several months, to make good on payment. Failing that, I raised hell until either payment was made or I felt satisfied with the resulting flame. (then resold it anyway)

It all really comes down to people keeping their word. Hell, I've given away far more work than I've been burned on. But I live by the rule that people must keep their word. If you don't have honor, you got nothing. A person might burn through other people like there's no tomorrow and no consequences... some people actually think ripping people off is no big deal. But burn through me once, and it'll haunt you forever. I never forget, and I rarely forgive. And I'm a vengeful son-of-a-bitch.

For sure 100%! I know that you wouldn't come to the boards and "out" someone without giving them a good amount of time.. And when you do, it's good to know who's honest and who isn't. The designers far too often fall prey to thieves just like anyone else on that end of the business.

Vengeful can be sexy though, although I've proven my tendancy to like assholes hahaha. :P

lil2rich4u2 · 05-20-2003, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sextoyking
Mark,

you know bro we have gone back and forth over the years on this guarentee thing.

Wasn't it something like 1-750 or 1 / 1000 or something. Hey, sure it's a good idea, but it's not like your offering 1/100 or 1/250.

You can't control someones good traffic, or bad traffic. We have had tons of our designs in the top 10 / top 20 converting out there. This is brain science, our project manager and team knows what works, usually. We have had a couple of clients in the past that couldn't do well with our design. I don't know forsure if it was us, him, his traffic, etc. Case by case basis I guess

Wanna ICQ me for a quote while we are at it?

ICQ - 175171926

Thanks.

Amputate Your Head · 05-20-2003, 06:32 PM

well, this is an interesting topic.... but I got work to do, so I'm out.

my bottom line for designers on this is:

Your clients are your lifeblood. Treat them well and they will reciprocate. (In most cases). But that doesn't mean you need to let yourself be walked on like a filthy man whore either. Do good work. Even if it takes you a little longer than the next guy. A fast and furious piece of shit isn't going to help you or your client in the long run. Lastly, be humble. Never forget that there's always someone out there that's hungrier than you.

lil2rich4u2 · 05-20-2003, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
filthy man whore

you HE-BITCH

lol nice post though, makes sense for both sides of the fence.

sextoyking · 05-20-2003, 06:34 PM

Mistress,

good comments, but I think giving a ceartain amount of time is diff. with most companies.

I will easily goto the boards if it has been 2-3 weeks past due on the clients project. Client recieved completed approved project, client didn't pay or even ask for an extention. not to be stuck up, but I have a solid rep in this industry since 1994, and If I come out and say someone didn't pay, well let the chips fall I guess.

I would only come out to the boards after many emails, etc, etc. but see I am no designer, I run the company and do sales, I treat it like a business. Alot of designers on there own aren't the best at the business side of it.. That is why we are a little different.

sextoyking · 05-20-2003, 06:35 PM

So true Amp

---------------------

Your clients are your lifeblood. Treat them well and they will reciprocate. (In most cases). But that doesn't mean you need to let yourself be walked on like a filthy man whore either. Do good work. Even if it takes you a little longer than the next guy. A fast and furious piece of shit isn't going to help you or your client in the long run. Lastly, be humble. Never forget that there's always someone out there that's hungrier than you.

lil2rich4u2 · 05-20-2003, 06:37 PM

hmm on the same topic ...

I used a well known designer from this board (again nameless)

Payment was made on conditions of a decent turnaround for a gallery (yes a single gallery)

Was not delivered for almost 4 months!

Not knocking him, whatever .... im not in business of knocking people. BUT ... how can someone operate a business like that?

Not replying to emails or ICQ's, totally disaperes for months .... then shows up to say "yep its up next on my list" every once in a while?! LOL!!!!

If he didnt have some awsome work, id prolly never go back to him again, and id have outed him here a long time ago.

But he gave serious discounts, and he does great work ... so he becomes "designer X"

lil2rich4u2 · 05-20-2003, 06:46 PM

figured id post here rather than starting a new thread.

Anyone have decent prices on premium AVS designs?

Dont just tell me youll do it even though you never done one before ... im looking for AVS experience here!

ICQ - 175171926

No reputation? No references? No portfolio? NO DEAL!

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 05-20-2003, 06:54 PM

Business manuevers, decisions what have you are still contained in the medium that stimulates the eyes and ears of a focused audience that have a desire. People "See" and "Feel" and "Hear" things. Designers, artists are the only ones that are the conduit that entices an audience to take action.

Would coke sell as good if it were in a black can? Would it even taste better if only the businessmen made the mixtures?
Would your vision of what coke is be what it is without the commercial's that portray it?

A business is literally nothing without a concept of design behind it other than the exception of it being a pipe dream. That is until the designer steps in. Whether he be the individuale technically inclined or creatively astute he is the one that takes a dream to reality. Business is indeed an art form as well make no mistake in its own ways of numbers and trends but they are nothing without designers actiavely plunking away at infinate things in infinate places.

A car fender, a Monitor, a camara. Even a simple bolt or creative advertisement for video or audio.
Someone makes those things real and its not the money that does it alone. Its not the business man that makes it real or tangible, it is only his vision and will that a designer must interpret to make a reality.

Understand the principal of where respect should be paid for each type of individual. The businessman should not be so eager to rip a designer into the gutter no matter how hard the designer begs for it.

Amputate Your Head · 05-20-2003, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
Business manuevers, decisions what have you are still contained in the medium that stimulates the eyes and ears of a focused audience that have a desire. People "See" and "Feel" and "Hear" things. Designers, artists are the only ones that are the conduit that entices an audience to take action.

Would coke sell as good if it were in a black can? Would it even taste better if only the businessmen made the mixtures?
Would your vision of what coke is be what it is without the commercial's that portray it?

A business is literally nothing without a concept of design behind it other than the exception of it being a pipe dream. That is until the designer steps in. Whether he be the individuale technically inclined or creatively astute he is the one that takes a dream to reality. Business is indeed an art form as well make no mistake in its own ways of numbers and trends but they are nothing without designers actiavely plunking away at infinate things in infinate places.

A car fender, a Monitor, a camara. Even a simple bolt or creative advertisement for video or audio.
Someone makes those things real and its not the money that does it alone. Its not the business man that makes it real or tangible, it is only his vision that a designer must interpret to make a reality.

Understand the principal of where respect should be paid for each type of individual. The businessman should not be so eager to rip a designer into the gutter no matter how hard the designer begs for it.

VERY well said.

SureFire · 05-20-2003, 06:56 PM

Communication is the key. If the client can?t express his/her ideas before the design process?? I usually say if I am going to design your site (mainstream) who are your competitors and what sites you do like that has nothing to do with your biz. What are your favorite colors? And so on. My bottom line is saying you and your competitors are going to be looking at it the most so I want you to be happy.

After pre approved comps, if the person wants to play ?art director? no problem. My hourly fee just doubled.

1/3 ,1/3, 1/3 or 50/50 with a kill fee in my contracts.

Looks like AdultNex has the best deal go on right now: 25/25/25 or 50/50 upfront payment.

MarkTiarra · 05-20-2003, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sextoyking
Mark,

you know bro we have gone back and forth over the years on this guarentee thing.

Wasn't it something like 1-750 or 1 / 1000 or something. Hey, sure it's a good idea, but it's not like your offering 1/100 or 1/250.

You can't control someones good traffic, or bad traffic. We have had tons of our designs in the top 10 / top 20 converting out there. This is brain science, our project manager and team knows what works, usually. We have had a couple of clients in the past that couldn't do well with our design. I don't know forsure if it was us, him, his traffic, etc. Case by case basis I guess

Oh agreed if I just did a flat number it wouldn't work. Some guys are flooding TGP traffic or on the retention side, some guys have like 2 feeds and want 40% trial conversion. That's why the guarantee has evolved over the years and I sit down and do a realistic but positive assesment with everyone who asks for the guarantee. The one thing that I can pretty much flat guarantee without looking at anything is anything I do will increase conversion or retention. But people like solid numbers before we go so we have to talk turkey first.

MarkTiarra · 05-20-2003, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
well, this is an interesting topic.... but I got work to do, so I'm out.

my bottom line for designers on this is:

Your clients are your lifeblood. Treat them well and they will reciprocate. (In most cases). But that doesn't mean you need to let yourself be walked on like a filthy man whore either. Do good work. Even if it takes you a little longer than the next guy. A fast and furious piece of shit isn't going to help you or your client in the long run. Lastly, be humble. Never forget that there's always someone out there that's hungrier than you.

Good words man. And your work always impresses me. =]

sextoyking · 05-20-2003, 07:02 PM

Mark,

I hear you man, it's all good.

All that matters really is that your clients, my clients, everyone's clients are happy

KRL · 05-20-2003, 07:04 PM

1/3rd up front, 1/3rd half through and check where you're at to make sure you're both in sync, 1/3rd on completion.

sextoyking · 05-20-2003, 07:07 PM

Krl,

too much work and trouble, 1/3, 1/3, etc.

We do the work, you approve, you pay..

easy as gold

lil2rich4u2 · 05-20-2003, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KRL
1/3rd up front, 1/3rd half through and check where you're at to make sure you're both in sync, 1/3rd on completion.

Ive never done that way.

But i have done 50/50, ive done full payment upon completion, ive also done .25 4 times.

katdaddy · 05-20-2003, 07:56 PM

interesting post basically you get what you pay for so if u get a cheap design its probably cheap :D

.................................................. ........

sup Alien long time no see hows biz?

lil2rich4u2 · 05-20-2003, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by katdaddy
interesting post basically you get what you pay for so if u get a cheap design its probably cheap :D

.................................................. ........

sup Alien long time no see hows biz?

not always true.

I can name several grfx guys willing to work for pennies (not literally) basically because they have mouths to feed and havent got any steady contracts.

That doesnt mean they arent as good as the "amps" of the world

BlueDesignStudios · 05-20-2003, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by katdaddy
interesting post basically you get what you pay for so if u get a cheap design its probably cheap :D

I think this is quite true to a large extent. Adult design is very competitive, and really the prices do reflect aspects such as quality of design, reputation, turn-around, trustability etc... There are 100's of Adult 'Designers' thesedays, but really only a handful of them I would say are reputable, and IMHO its worthwhile paying for them so you get a site with good english, within the designated time frame, that actually looks half decent! - all of which leads to beter conversions / clickthroughs!

05-20-2003, 06:28 PM	#54
sextoyking Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, OR. Posts: 6,034	Mark, you know bro we have gone back and forth over the years on this guarentee thing. Wasn't it something like 1-750 or 1 / 1000 or something. Hey, sure it's a good idea, but it's not like your offering 1/100 or 1/250. You can't control someones good traffic, or bad traffic. We have had tons of our designs in the top 10 / top 20 converting out there. This is brain science, our project manager and team knows what works, usually. We have had a couple of clients in the past that couldn't do well with our design. I don't know forsure if it was us, him, his traffic, etc. Case by case basis I guess __________________ ICQ: 52344098 -------------------------------------- 50% Commissions on all Product Sales. http://www.wishing.com/money

05-20-2003, 06:32 PM	#58
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	well, this is an interesting topic.... but I got work to do, so I'm out. my bottom line for designers on this is: Your clients are your lifeblood. Treat them well and they will reciprocate. (In most cases). But that doesn't mean you need to let yourself be walked on like a filthy man whore either. Do good work. Even if it takes you a little longer than the next guy. A fast and furious piece of shit isn't going to help you or your client in the long run. Lastly, be humble. Never forget that there's always someone out there that's hungrier than you. __________________ SIG TOO BIG

05-20-2003, 06:34 PM	#60
sextoyking Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, OR. Posts: 6,034	Mistress, good comments, but I think giving a ceartain amount of time is diff. with most companies. I will easily goto the boards if it has been 2-3 weeks past due on the clients project. Client recieved completed approved project, client didn't pay or even ask for an extention. not to be stuck up, but I have a solid rep in this industry since 1994, and If I come out and say someone didn't pay, well let the chips fall I guess. I would only come out to the boards after many emails, etc, etc. but see I am no designer, I run the company and do sales, I treat it like a business. Alot of designers on there own aren't the best at the business side of it.. That is why we are a little different. __________________ ICQ: 52344098 -------------------------------------- 50% Commissions on all Product Sales. http://www.wishing.com/money

05-20-2003, 06:35 PM	#61
sextoyking Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, OR. Posts: 6,034	So true Amp --------------------- Your clients are your lifeblood. Treat them well and they will reciprocate. (In most cases). But that doesn't mean you need to let yourself be walked on like a filthy man whore either. Do good work. Even if it takes you a little longer than the next guy. A fast and furious piece of shit isn't going to help you or your client in the long run. Lastly, be humble. Never forget that there's always someone out there that's hungrier than you. __________________ ICQ: 52344098 -------------------------------------- 50% Commissions on all Product Sales. http://www.wishing.com/money

05-20-2003, 06:46 PM	#63
lil2rich4u2 ICQ: 175171926 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 11,046	figured id post here rather than starting a new thread. Anyone have decent prices on premium AVS designs? Dont just tell me youll do it even though you never done one before ... im looking for AVS experience here! ICQ - 175171926 No reputation? No references? No portfolio? NO DEAL! __________________ HEY!! Unbeatable hosting! Customer service is top notch! --> ISPrime <-- Do a search on any board, their reputation is rock solid .. for years!!

05-20-2003, 06:37 PM	#62
lil2rich4u2 ICQ: 175171926 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 11,046	hmm on the same topic ... I used a well known designer from this board (again nameless) Payment was made on conditions of a decent turnaround for a gallery (yes a single gallery) Was not delivered for almost 4 months! Not knocking him, whatever .... im not in business of knocking people. BUT ... how can someone operate a business like that? Not replying to emails or ICQ's, totally disaperes for months .... then shows up to say "yep its up next on my list" every once in a while?! LOL!!!! If he didnt have some awsome work, id prolly never go back to him again, and id have outed him here a long time ago. But he gave serious discounts, and he does great work ... so he becomes "designer X"

05-20-2003, 06:54 PM	#64
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Business manuevers, decisions what have you are still contained in the medium that stimulates the eyes and ears of a focused audience that have a desire. People "See" and "Feel" and "Hear" things. Designers, artists are the only ones that are the conduit that entices an audience to take action. Would coke sell as good if it were in a black can? Would it even taste better if only the businessmen made the mixtures? Would your vision of what coke is be what it is without the commercial's that portray it? A business is literally nothing without a concept of design behind it other than the exception of it being a pipe dream. That is until the designer steps in. Whether he be the individuale technically inclined or creatively astute he is the one that takes a dream to reality. Business is indeed an art form as well make no mistake in its own ways of numbers and trends but they are nothing without designers actiavely plunking away at infinate things in infinate places. A car fender, a Monitor, a camara. Even a simple bolt or creative advertisement for video or audio. Someone makes those things real and its not the money that does it alone. Its not the business man that makes it real or tangible, it is only his vision and will that a designer must interpret to make a reality. Understand the principal of where respect should be paid for each type of individual. The businessman should not be so eager to rip a designer into the gutter no matter how hard the designer begs for it. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \| Last edited by AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE; 05-20-2003 at 06:57 PM..

05-20-2003, 06:56 PM	#66
SureFire Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: internet Posts: 4,398	Communication is the key. If the client can?t express his/her ideas before the design process?? I usually say if I am going to design your site (mainstream) who are your competitors and what sites you do like that has nothing to do with your biz. What are your favorite colors? And so on. My bottom line is saying you and your competitors are going to be looking at it the most so I want you to be happy. After pre approved comps, if the person wants to play ?art director? no problem. My hourly fee just doubled. 1/3 ,1/3, 1/3 or 50/50 with a kill fee in my contracts. Looks like AdultNex has the best deal go on right now: 25/25/25 or 50/50 upfront payment.

05-20-2003, 07:02 PM	#69
sextoyking Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, OR. Posts: 6,034	Mark, I hear you man, it's all good. All that matters really is that your clients, my clients, everyone's clients are happy __________________ ICQ: 52344098 -------------------------------------- 50% Commissions on all Product Sales. http://www.wishing.com/money

05-20-2003, 07:04 PM	#70
KRL Entrepreneur Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 31,429	1/3rd up front, 1/3rd half through and check where you're at to make sure you're both in sync, 1/3rd on completion. __________________ If you would like to develop your domains, you can lease inexpensive foreign labor from the leaders in the field at iWebmasters.com TO LOWER YOUR COSTS AND INCREASE YOUR PRODUCTION! * * * * * * * * * * * * Domains Adult News KRL's Newsletter Biz Tips Just Listed Domains

05-20-2003, 07:07 PM	#71
sextoyking Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, OR. Posts: 6,034	Krl, too much work and trouble, 1/3, 1/3, etc. We do the work, you approve, you pay.. easy as gold __________________ ICQ: 52344098 -------------------------------------- 50% Commissions on all Product Sales. http://www.wishing.com/money

05-20-2003, 07:56 PM	#73
katdaddy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 418	interesting post basically you get what you pay for so if u get a cheap design its probably cheap :D .................................................. ........ sup Alien long time no see hows biz? __________________ To have ultimate victory, you must be ruthless. Napoleon Bonaparte, 1769-1821 www.ebonytraffic.com www.freeblackmovies.com