SoBeGirl Asks - Does the Guy who Rents DVDs at the store have model IDs? NO - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

BigFrog · 05-04-2003, 02:23 AM

fitty

AaronM · 05-04-2003, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danielle

So you are giving out legal advise and you are not a lawyer. Am I correct?

Danielle

No, I am giving personal advice and telling people to seek appropriate legal council as well.

50 BIATCH!

AaronM · 05-04-2003, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigFrog
fitty

Fucker.

AaronM · 05-04-2003, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

No, I am giving personal advice and telling people to seek appropriate legal council as well.

50 BIATCH!

Make that"Personal advice" based on legal facts.

BigFrog · 05-04-2003, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

Fucker.

Danielle · 05-04-2003, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

No, I am giving personal advice and telling people to seek appropriate legal council as well.

50 BIATCH!

Then what the hell is wrong with my post? All I said was take your fucking lawyers advise! LOL!

Danielle

BigFrog · 05-04-2003, 02:31 AM

Danielle · 05-04-2003, 02:32 AM

AaronM,

Lets just do a little test on your expert 2257 info you have in your head.

Take a look at the following picture.

http://www.trueamateurs.com/tony/nude0002.jpg

If it is on a site all by itself and the publisher of the site is the primary producer does that site need to list a custodian of records for 2257?

Danielle

SGS · 05-04-2003, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigFrog
sometime ago i had a big problem with content providers not providing ID's and shit for purchases....
then, Aaron explained it to me....i read up on the law some more and came to the conclusion that the advice given by Aaron was correct.

if the attorney general comes knocking on my door and advises me that the content im using is underage or illegal in any way....i'm not the one going to jail....the content provider is.

Unless you live outside of the US.

AaronM · 05-04-2003, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danielle

Then what the hell is wrong with my post? All I said was take your fucking lawyers advise! LOL!

Danielle

I just re-read your reply.

I initially misread your post. I admit when I am wrong. Please accept my apology.

On a similar note...Telling people to ignore those who are trying to educate them is not very kind. I ALWAYS tell people to get a competent Internet attorney.

As you stated in another reply..The case I mentioned only covers certain states, BUT...That was a groundbreaking case that has set a precedent that can pave the way for future cases in other courts.

AaronM · 05-04-2003, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danielle
AaronM,

Lets just do a little test on your expert 2257 info you have in your head.

Take a look at the following picture.

http://www.trueamateurs.com/tony/nude0002.jpg

If it is on a site all by itself and the publisher of the site is the primary producer does that site need to list a custodian of records for 2257?

Danielle

From first look, I would say no...Unless her heel is stuffed up her snatch. There may be other things going on then what we see in a single photograph. Tis better to be safe and comply with 2257 even if it is not required. Nobody will question a producer for being too careful.

BigFrog · 05-04-2003, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danielle
AaronM,

Lets just do a little test on your expert 2257 info you have in your head.

Take a look at the following picture.

http://www.trueamateurs.com/tony/nude0002.jpg

If it is on a site all by itself and the publisher of the site is the primary producer does that site need to list a custodian of records for 2257?

Danielle

by itself?

stocktrader23 · 05-04-2003, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

I would say no...Unless her heel is stuffed up her snatch.

Ahaahaahaaha

SGS · 05-04-2003, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly

Here again are why the webmaster needs the documents.

To see they exist and are acceptable.
To see the girl was old enough.
To see exactly what rights she signed away.
To see that she did actually sign them away.
To see who shot it and if the seller have the rights to resell.

Or are you going to leave all this to some guy you've never met?

The most sensible words I have ever read here.

Danielle · 05-04-2003, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

I just re-read your reply.

I initially misread your post. I admit when I am wrong. Please accept my apology.

On a similar note...Telling people to ignore those who are trying to educate them is not very kind. I ALWAYS tell people to get a competent Internet attorney.

As you stated in another reply..The case I mentioned only covers certain states, BUT...That was a groundbreaking case that has set a precedent that can pave the way for future cases in other courts.

This I agree 100% with. I am on your side. My husband and I have been in this business since 1996 and are primary producers. We have a very good lawyer and follow his advise to the tee.

I agree with you that everyone has to follow this law. It has been around for quite some time and looks like it will finally be used.

Hugs,
Danielle

Groove · 05-04-2003, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SGS
Unless you live outside of the US.

Yep

And I live in Australia. My lawyer advised me that I should obtain copies of model releases and IDs for all of my content. That's why I was mighty pissed-off when Sobe reneged on our agreement to provide docs.

AaronM · 05-04-2003, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groove

Yep And I live in Australia. My lawyer advised me that I should obtain copies of model releases and IDs for all of my content. That's why I was mighty pissed-off when Sobe reneged on our agreement to provide docs.

Very interesting.

My advice???

Stick with producers who live in Australia.

Danielle · 05-04-2003, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

From first look, I would say no...Unless her heel is stuffed up her snatch. There may be other things going on then what we see in a single photograph. Tis better to be safe and comply with 2257 even if it is not required. Nobody will question a producer for being too careful.

Correct! That is why I tell everyone to use softcore images on FREE sites only.

2257 LABELING laws do not cover:

lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person;

2256 does. But 2257 does not.

Shoot! we 2257 label sites that don't need it just to put our sites one notch below the radar.

Danielle

Groove · 05-04-2003, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM
My advice???

Stick with producers who live in Australia.

In terms of playing things conservatively, I think that's good advice. But in terms of practical reality, it would mean that I had to confine my purchases to an extremely small pool of content. It's a matter of balancing risk against commercial viability.

AaronM · 05-04-2003, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danielle

Correct! That is why I tell everyone to use softcore images on FREE sites only.

2257 LABELING laws do not cover:

lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person;

2256 does. But 2257 does not.

Shoot! we 2257 label sites that don't need it just to put our sites one notch below the radar.

Danielle

Gee, I am glad I passed your test. I will sleep better tonight.

AaronM · 05-04-2003, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groove

In terms of playing things conservatively, I think that's good advice. But in terms of practical reality, it would mean that I had to confine my purchases to an extremely small pool of content. It's a matter of balancing risk against commercial viability.

I understand this...And I am sure that there are a lot of content providers who would not mind helping you.

Feel free to set up some models and send a few of us some plane tickets so we can produce for you and be subject to your laws.

stocktrader23 · 05-04-2003, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danielle

2257 LABELING laws do not cover:

lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person;

2256 does. But 2257 does not.

Could you explain this better. How would you define lascivious exibition of the genitals.....?

Groove · 05-04-2003, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM
My advice???

Stick with producers who live in Australia.

Just curious...

So you advise US webmasters not to buy from Czech Content?

Carrie · 05-04-2003, 02:55 AM

Yes, it's a comfort thing. That's what it all boils down to.
I like to have the model IDs so I can both prove to myself that the girl is of age *and* so that I can trust the content provider.

Just because they have put 2257 info on their site doesn't mean they follow the law - they might just be doing it to look more lawful.
Now before you say that's their problem, not mine, because they are the primary producers... think of the repercussions to me and my business if I suddenly found out that my content wasn't legal.

It *would* present a problem to me because then I'd have illegal content on my sites that I paid money for, and I'd have to take it down. Now I don't know about you, but I use my content as much as possible, and that would mean a LOT of work hunting the different sites down and changing things out, plus risking getting banned because something had changed (think TGP gallery where if anything changes after submissin or acceptance, you're banned for life).
That *would* be my problem, and it would cost me a lot of lost time (money), it would cost me content that I had paid for (money), and it would cost me a lot of extra work (money).

So no, by the LAW, I don't need to see the model IDs.
But as a businesswoman who plans to be here for a while, it puts my business on much more stable ground when I know that this content is legal and I don't have to worry about having to go into panic mode one day ripping my sites apart and costing myself money.

Make sense?

SGS · 05-04-2003, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groove

In terms of playing things conservatively, I think that's good advice. But in terms of practical reality, it would mean that I had to confine my purchases to an extremely small pool of content. It's a matter of balancing risk against commercial viability.

So long as you have *all* of the legal documentation that your own lawyer tells you that *you* need to run your business you are fine. Run an adult business any other way would be just too stupid to think about no matter where you are.

AaronM · 05-04-2003, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groove

Just curious...

So you advise US webmasters not to buy from Czech Content?

I suggest that if they really want to play it safe that they not buy from anybody outside of the US.

AaronM · 05-04-2003, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
Yes, it's a comfort thing. That's what it all boils down to.
I like to have the model IDs so I can both prove to myself that the girl is of age *and* so that I can trust the content provider.

Just because they have put 2257 info on their site doesn't mean they follow the law - they might just be doing it to look more lawful.
Now before you say that's their problem, not mine, because they are the primary producers... think of the repercussions to me and my business if I suddenly found out that my content wasn't legal.

It *would* present a problem to me because then I'd have illegal content on my sites that I paid money for, and I'd have to take it down. Now I don't know about you, but I use my content as much as possible, and that would mean a LOT of work hunting the different sites down and changing things out, plus risking getting banned because something had changed (think TGP gallery where if anything changes after submissin or acceptance, you're banned for life).
That *would* be my problem, and it would cost me a lot of lost time (money), it would cost me content that I had paid for (money), and it would cost me a lot of extra work (money).

So no, by the LAW, I don't need to see the model IDs.
But as a businesswoman who plans to be here for a while, it puts my business on much more stable ground when I know that this content is legal and I don't have to worry about having to go into panic mode one day ripping my sites apart and costing myself money.

Make sense?

Indeed, it does.

stocktrader23 · 05-04-2003, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie

Make sense?

Makes cents. ;)

Groove · 05-04-2003, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM
I suggest that if they really want to play it safe that they not buy from anybody outside of the US.

Carrie · 05-04-2003, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23

Could you explain this better. How would you define lascivious exibition of the genitals.....?

I don't think it's how we would define it, it's how a court would define it - and that's just as subjective as our opinions.
To *me*, it's something like spread pussy lips.
To an 80-yr old priest, it could be seeing a camel toe through a tight bathing suit.

titmowse · 05-04-2003, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigFrog

my new wallpaper. thanks!

Carrie · 05-04-2003, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23

Makes cents. ;)

heh - I guess it doesn't just boil down to comfort after all... it's all about the money ;)

BigFrog · 05-04-2003, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by titmowse

my new wallpaper. thanks!

lol
np

AaronM · 05-04-2003, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
To an 80-yr old priest, it could be seeing a camel toe through a tight bathing suit.

I think I vaguely recall a prosecution over exactly such a thing involving a minor.

Danielle · 05-04-2003, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23

Could you explain this better. How would you define lascivious exibition of the genitals.....?

2257 covers the following....

(A)

sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex;

(B)

bestiality;

(C)

masturbation;

(D)

sadistic or masochistic abuse

And nothing else.

lascivious exibition of the genitals..... Well lets use the dictionary definition of the term lascivious.

Exciting sexual desires

Basically showing your pussy or dick in a sexual manor...

But as far as 2257 is concerned it is not required to be labled as far as what our lawyer tells us.

But you sure better have proof of age of the person in the picture. There is a lot more to Chapter 110 then just 2257.

Everyone needs to read the full Chapter 110! Not just the 2257 part.

Hugs,
Danielle

AaronM · 05-04-2003, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danielle

2257 covers the following....

(A)

sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex;

(B)

bestiality;

(C)

masturbation;

(D)

sadistic or masochistic abuse

And nothing else.

lascivious exibition of the genitals..... Well lets use the dictionary definition of the term lascivious.

Exciting sexual desires

Basically showing your pussy or dick in a sexual manor...

But as far as 2257 is concerned it is not required to be labled as far as what our lawyer tells us.

But you sure better have proof of age of the person in the picture. There is a lot more to Chapter 110 then just 2257.

Everyone needs to read the full Chapter 110! Not just the 2257 part.

Hugs,
Danielle

Divorce your husband and Marry me.

Danielle · 05-04-2003, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

Divorce your husband and Marry me.

Now you like me

Took you long enough.

We may go about pushing things different, but we are on the same side.

Oh, I am going to be a grandmother in July.

Hugs,
Danielle

AaronM · 05-04-2003, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danielle

Now you like me Took you long enough. We may go about pushing things different, but we are on the same side.

Oh, I am going to be a grandmother in July.

Hugs,
Danielle

So am I!

SandraWang · 05-04-2003, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoBeGirl Video
They why do adult webmasrters insist on having them?

Heh, sorry SoBe I know you are pointing at me in this one, I just asked since It thought that was something I needed to have to comply with the laws. But since I live in Norway, I'm not sure if I need it at all. But what I do think I could need, is the licence showing that I have the right to use your material on my site, in case some ask me if I have stolen your content... so that was my main concern, but I guess you remember me, and can say I bought it if that happens

So no problems at all for me, really

Nydahl · 05-04-2003, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

I suggest that if they really want to play it safe that they not buy from anybody outside of the US.

you are kidding bullshit.And I am not saying this just because I want to stay in biz or save CZech producers or what.
The problem is that you know that compatition of Czech producers is really hard so you decided to advice US customers to stick to US content providers only.We can do the same job like you for 100 bucks but you have to charge 250 - thats the fact.
We are not breaking the US law in any way
Nothing against you Aaron - its your decision and oppinion so I respect that , but you are kidding bulshit

=^..^= · 05-04-2003, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM
Fucking retards...ALL of you.

For once, Sobe is right.

"They why do adult webmasrters insist on having them?"

The answer to this is simple. Ignorance.

Do me a favor and don't buy from me either if you don't understand the fucking law. This tells me you were too stupid to consult with an attorney before breaking into a high risk business and I don't want anything to do with you.

EXACTLY!

i would NEVER give a webmsaster access to model releases and as a model I'd personall y track down and break the legs of any photographer who gave out a release that showed my full name address and phone number Plus ID's

Nydahl · 05-04-2003, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
I would rather trust MacDonalds with my health than a content provider with my freedom.

Why?

MacDonalds are so worried of getting sued they will look after it.

Content Providers come and go. Are you saying US clients of Adult Czech Content should rely on a company 7,000 to 10,000 miles away for their freedom?

What if the Content Provider dies, goes out of business, has a fire, or just gets pissed off with you?

I don' know why you don't tape paulmarkham instead of adultczechcontent - you live 80 miles from my house , here in Czech I think

Paul Markham · 05-04-2003, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Groove

In terms of playing things conservatively, I think that's good advice. But in terms of practical reality, it would mean that I had to confine my purchases to an extremely small pool of content. It's a matter of balancing risk against commercial viability.

It does not matter where they are, it matters how professional and careful they are. There is one content provider who is very reluctant to provide documentation. He will only do so if he feels like it and claims that he is best to check and hold the documents for you.

However he does not know a forged passport from a real one.

My advice is you need the documentation for a lot more reasons than 2257, but a lot of people insist on dragging it back to that subject. Maybe because that is the one area they can win on.

Forget 2257 here is why everyone needs to have the documents.

To see they exist and are acceptable.
To see the model was old enough.
To see exactly what rights she signed away.
To see that she did actually sign them away.
To see who shot it and if the seller have the rights to resell.

Of course everyone makes their own decision. I just give my opinions.

Paul Markham · 05-04-2003, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
Yes, it's a comfort thing. That's what it all boils down to.
I like to have the model IDs so I can both prove to myself that the girl is of age *and* so that I can trust the content provider.

Just because they have put 2257 info on their site doesn't mean they follow the law - they might just be doing it to look more lawful.
Now before you say that's their problem, not mine, because they are the primary producers... think of the repercussions to me and my business if I suddenly found out that my content wasn't legal.

It *would* present a problem to me because then I'd have illegal content on my sites that I paid money for, and I'd have to take it down. Now I don't know about you, but I use my content as much as possible, and that would mean a LOT of work hunting the different sites down and changing things out, plus risking getting banned because something had changed (think TGP gallery where if anything changes after submissin or acceptance, you're banned for life).
That *would* be my problem, and it would cost me a lot of lost time (money), it would cost me content that I had paid for (money), and it would cost me a lot of extra work (money).

So no, by the LAW, I don't need to see the model IDs.
But as a businesswoman who plans to be here for a while, it puts my business on much more stable ground when I know that this content is legal and I don't have to worry about having to go into panic mode one day ripping my sites apart and costing myself money.

Make sense?

To me perfect sense, but to so many here it does not.

SGS · 05-04-2003, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by =^..^=

EXACTLY!

i would NEVER give a webmsaster access to model releases and as a model I'd personall y track down and break the legs of any photographer who gave out a release that showed my full name address and phone number Plus ID's

So if you sell sets to printed publication producers you never give them a copy of the release together with model ID? I have sold hundreds of sets to Paul Raymond, DS and many others right back since the early 1980's and a copy of release and ID was provided every time.

Paul Markham · 05-04-2003, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

I suggest that if they really want to play it safe that they not buy from anybody outside of the US.

So the fact that the guy is a US citizen makes it impossible for him to break the law?

If you really want to play it safe,

INSIST ON GETTING THE DOCUMENTATION AND DO NOT LEAVE IT TO SOME ONE ELSE.

Nydahl · 05-04-2003, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
So the fact that the guy is a US citizen makes it impossible for him to break the law?

If you really want to play it safe,

INSIST ON GETTING THE DOCUMENTATION AND DO NOT LEAVE IT TO SOME ONE ELSE.

glad you agree with me man

Paul Markham · 05-04-2003, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by =^..^=

EXACTLY!

i would NEVER give a webmsaster access to model releases and as a model I'd personall y track down and break the legs of any photographer who gave out a release that showed my full name address and phone number Plus ID's

SORRY BUT WHEN YOU DROP YOUR KNICKERS IN FRONT OF ME WITH A CAMERA, SIGN A MODEL RELEASE AND TAKE MY MONEY. YOUR RIGHTS ARE NOT MY CONCERN.

I do however choose to remove the contact details from the model release and the IDs.

You want to stay invisible? Keep you knickers on and don't take my money. My responsibility is to my customers, not models who think they can do this work, take our money and stay invisible.

One of the reasons why we wait for them to be 18 is that they are then old enough to make their own decisions.

Paul Markham · 05-04-2003, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nydahl

I don' know why you don't tape paulmarkham instead of adultczechcontent - you live 80 miles from my house , here in Czech I think

Who are adultczechcontent?

I agree with you about the documents. I reckon our level of documentation is probably better than most US content providers anyway.

DirtyDanza · 05-04-2003, 04:36 AM

you konw that you only have to show paperwork on your stuff if the Proper Authoriteis ask.... fuck everybody who says other than that.. as long as the attorney genral can get them from you if he wants... then you can have anything you want on your 2257....

05-04-2003, 04:36 AM	#100
DirtyDanza Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: BP4L.... Las Vegas, Posts: 8,370	you konw that you only have to show paperwork on your stuff if the Proper Authoriteis ask.... fuck everybody who says other than that.. as long as the attorney genral can get them from you if he wants... then you can have anything you want on your 2257.... __________________ AVN Nominated Camming Couple

05-04-2003, 02:23 AM	#51
BigFrog Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 2,057	fitty

05-04-2003, 02:31 AM	#57
BigFrog Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 2,057

05-04-2003, 02:32 AM	#58
Danielle Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: My Coffin Posts: 1,227	AaronM, Lets just do a little test on your expert 2257 info you have in your head. Take a look at the following picture. http://www.trueamateurs.com/tony/nude0002.jpg If it is on a site all by itself and the publisher of the site is the primary producer does that site need to list a custodian of records for 2257? Danielle

05-04-2003, 02:55 AM	#74
Carrie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Virgin - nee Posts: 3,162	Yes, it's a comfort thing. That's what it all boils down to. I like to have the model IDs so I can both prove to myself that the girl is of age and so that I can trust the content provider. Just because they have put 2257 info on their site doesn't mean they follow the law - they might just be doing it to look more lawful. Now before you say that's their problem, not mine, because they are the primary producers... think of the repercussions to me and my business if I suddenly found out that my content wasn't legal. It would present a problem to me because then I'd have illegal content on my sites that I paid money for, and I'd have to take it down. Now I don't know about you, but I use my content as much as possible, and that would mean a LOT of work hunting the different sites down and changing things out, plus risking getting banned because something had changed (think TGP gallery where if anything changes after submissin or acceptance, you're banned for life). That would be my problem, and it would cost me a lot of lost time (money), it would cost me content that I had paid for (money), and it would cost me a lot of extra work (money). So no, by the LAW, I don't need to see the model IDs. But as a businesswoman who plans to be here for a while, it puts my business on much more stable ground when I know that this content is legal and I don't have to worry about having to go into panic mode one day ripping my sites apart and costing myself money. Make sense?