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SuckOnThis 10-01-2015 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pheer (Post 20594024)
He said the crime rate went through the roof. He didnt say the murder rate. Murder is a crime, but not all crimes are murder. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

Well thats bullshit too.


Summary of eRumor:

Crime rates in Australia have shot up since a gun ban took effect there in the 1990s.

The Truth:

Claims that Australia?s gun ban caused crime rates to shoot up don?t check out.

Australia rolled out strict gun laws in 1996. Ever since, Australia?s crime rates have been used to argue points on both sides of the gun control debate. Some believe Australia?s crime rates have gone up, others believe they?ve gone down.

We took a look at a number of specific claims about crime in Australia, and found them to be mostly false. The statistics were released by the Australian Sporting Shooters Association, and they?ve been widely repeated.

First, let?s look at Australia?s gun laws.

Before 1996, the states and territories that make up Australia each set their own gun laws. After what became known as the ?Port Arthur Massacre? in which a gunman killed 35 people and injured 18 others with a semi-automatic rifle, state and federal governments teamed up on gun reform, according to the Library of Congress:

In 1996, following the Port Arthur massacre, the federal government and the states and territories agreed to a uniform approach to firearms regulation, including a ban on certain semiautomatic and self-loading rifles and shotguns, standard licensing and permit criteria, storage requirements and inspections, and greater restrictions on the sale of firearms and ammunition. Firearms license applicants would be required to take a safety course and show a ?genuine reason? for owning a firearm, which could not include self-defense. The reasons for refusing a license would include ?reliable evidence of a mental or physical condition which would render the applicant unsuitable for owning, possessing or using a firearm.? A waiting period of twenty-eight days would apply to the issuing of both firearms licenses and permits to acquire each weapon.

The National Firearms Agreement also implemented a gun buyback program that led to 700,000 weapons being voluntarily surrendered. These stats can be difficult to fact check because they say specific crime rates are up by a certain percentage ? but they don?t say over what period. We took a look at how the crime rates have changed since the gun laws took effect using the most recent data we could find.

Homicides Are Up 3.2%-Fiction!

The number of homicides in Australia has been trending downward since 2001. The Australian Institute of Criminology reports that the homicide rate decreased from 1.8 homicides per 100,000 people in 2002 to 1.1 homicides per 100,000 people in 2012 (the most recent year stats were available). One in 10 homicides in Australia during that time involved a gun.

Assaults Are Up 8.6%-Fiction! & Misleading!

The number of assaults in Australia has actually increased more than 8.6% since the 1990s. In 1996, there were 789 assaults, and by 2010 there were 972. Over that time, the number of assaults jumped about 19%, according to the Australian Institute of Criminology.

Armed Robberies Are Up 45%-Fiction!

The number of armed robberies in Australia began to increase in the 1990s and peaked in 2001. Forty armed robberies were recorded per 100,000 people that year. Since then, the number of armed robberies in the country has trended downward. There were 5,628 armed robberies in the country in 2013, a 9.6% decrease from the year before.

Gun Deaths have climbed 300% in Victoria-Unproven!

We weren?t able to find recent statistics on the number of gun deaths in Victoria.

However, we do know that the number of gun deaths decreased from 4.2 gun deaths per 100,000 people in 1979 to 1.5 per 100,000 people in 2000, the British Medical Journal reports.

The Victoria Police also reported that the number of overall homicides in the city decreased by 11.8% from 2013 to 2014.

Australia?s Gun Laws Have Led to Higher Crime Rates-Mostly Fiction!

Rochard 10-01-2015 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 20593907)
Taking away a law abiding citizen's ability to defend themselves only empowers the criminal.

All we are doing is arming the criminals.

Rob 10-01-2015 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis (Post 20594031)
*REMOVED COPY/PASTE CRAP*

"Australia?s crime rates have been used to argue points on both sides of the gun control debate" -- pulled from what you copied and pasted, this statement alone suggests there are facts that support both arguments.

SuckOnThis 10-01-2015 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 20594037)
"Australia’s crime rates have been used to argue points on both sides of the gun control debate" -- pulled from what you copied and pasted, this statement alone suggests there are facts that support both arguments.


Do you have a reading comprehension issue? Read the damn article S L O W E R, it shows how arguing the crime rate went up is like arguing the sky is purple.

Rob 10-01-2015 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 20594036)
All we are doing is arming the criminals.

There are literally millions of weapons in circulation right now in the U.S. A vast number of them aren't registered and already in criminal hands. If they change the gun laws tomorrow, will all the criminals that illegally own guns turn them in? I don't think so, and with the make-believe border we have with Mexico, that means guns can come and go as they please. And in some cases, if you're in a ruthless cartel, the POTUS and Attorney General will provide them to you. :thumbsup

In other words, criminals will always have guns. ALWAYS. This isn't the UK or Australia, we're not an island. If I was hellbent on breaking the law, and even if the U.S. passes the most Draconian laws in all the land, I'll still be able to get one. Easily. And that's the point most people against gun control are trying to argue. Yeah, Liberals and the media paint the picture that everyone that owns a gun or against gun control are right wing lunatic nut jobs with a basement full of assault rifles and ammo wearing camouflage pants. That's about the furthest from the truth, but since the media paints that picture for the sheep, they follow it without question.

Address other underlying issues rather than trying to rewrite the Constitution. Guns don't kill people, crazy people with guns kill people. Can't say that enough. :2 cents:

kane 10-01-2015 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 20593907)
One thing all these shooters have in common is they're fucking cowards. Every mass shooting that has occurred in the past 20 years could have been prevented, or minimized, if we had armed citizens and open carry. No shooting has been a spontaneous act, they were all planned.

An armed society is a polite society. Taking away a law abiding citizen's ability to defend themselves only empowers the criminal.

My problem with everyone walking around with a gun on their hip is that now all these idots who can't even seem to figure out the self-checkout at the grocery store are going to be armed and feeling entitled to fire as needed.

It's not about having everyone armed. It's about having the right people armed. Schools could easily protect themselves from this kind of thing by having a few trained, armed guards on call on campus (how many would be determined by the size of the school etc). They could also allow the teachers in the school to go through some training and have a gun locked in their desk or a safe in their class.

The last thing a school needs is a bunch of panicked kids firing at anything that moves.

crockett 10-01-2015 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 20593907)
One thing all these shooters have in common is they're fucking cowards. Every mass shooting that has occurred in the past 20 years could have been prevented, or minimized, if we had armed citizens and open carry. No shooting has been a spontaneous act, they were all planned.

An armed society is a polite society. Taking away a law abiding citizen's ability to defend themselves only empowers the criminal.

Yea because no one ever shot anyone in the Wild West and Town sheriff's never had to forcibly remove the guns from people who came to no gun towns.. The whole no gun thing is just modern liberal idea...

Mutt 10-01-2015 04:22 PM

So many factors at play, the elephant in the room is the Internet where sites like 4Chan flourish that provide a perverse sympathetic support and encouragement group for social outcasts that makes mass murder seem a rational and even a heroic option. You spend enough time on websites like 4Chan and even GFY at times, anti-social speech and behavior begins to seem 'normal'. :Oh crap

Guns are an issue but the root causes are far more complicated and nobody wants to deal with those so the easy thing is to just blame guns.

The US is a large country, if only 1/10th of 1 percent of its young population is affected by violent video games/movies, psych medications, vile social media/networking sites, etc it adds up to a pool of thousands of young male ticking time bombs.

I'm beginning to think that gun ownership should be restricted to people over 30, we don't let 13 year olds drive cars even though they are physically capable - almost all these mass murderers are teens and 20-somethings.

RyuLion 10-01-2015 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ Gold (Post 20594023)
Evidently this guy was a Beta Bitch who couldn't get laid.

He posted a warning on 4Chan.


Oregon college shooting message appeared on 4Chan the night before attack | Daily Mail Online

What a fucking loser!! :Oh crap

AaronM 10-01-2015 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyTheDog (Post 20593920)
It's that sort of explosive reaction to someone that doesn't agree with you on this one issue that makes me think YOU, and people like you, should not be carrying a gun...


Me saying "fuck you" to a guy who is a citizen of the very country the Second Amendment was put in place to protect us from is an "explosive reaction" that concerns you? LOL, stop being a pussy.

johnnyloadproductions 10-01-2015 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ Gold (Post 20594023)
Evidently this guy was a Beta Bitch who couldn't get laid.

He posted a warning on 4Chan.


Oregon college shooting message appeared on 4Chan the night before attack | Daily Mail Online

I'm pretty sure law enforcement has their hands deep into 4chan. There have been several death threats made there before that people acted on.

I remember going there for the first time in circa 2009 and seeing things I'd only heard about, jesus! Still fun to go on there occasionally.
I usually go there and here (few other places) to let my id come out and play.

AaronM 10-01-2015 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis (Post 20593928)
Wrong.

Students who have proper paperwork are allowed to carry guns on campus. Oregon is one of seven states where lawmakers have said people with concealed weapons permits must be allowed to bring concealed weapons onto campus.

Where is Roseburg, Oregon? What is Umpqua Community College? | OregonLive.com


Where exactly am I wrong? I posted the college rules, not state law and by those rules, I'm 100% right.

AaronM 10-01-2015 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCLGirls (Post 20593936)
Interesting that gun advocates all over social media are blaming "gun-free zone" status...when in reality Oregon colleges are not gun free zones.

THAT college IS a gun free zone. A student may choose to carry but if caught, they face being kicked out and having to go through a legal battle to get back in.

AaronM 10-01-2015 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentKnight (Post 20593956)
How many more security would it have taken to prevent this?

What's a good number?

1...If they were allowed to carry a gun.

kane 10-01-2015 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt (Post 20594058)
So many factors at play, the elephant in the room is the Internet where sites like 4Chan flourish that provide a perverse sympathetic support and encouragement group for social outcasts that makes mass murder seem a rational and even a heroic option. You spend enough time on websites like 4Chan and even GFY at times, anti-social speech and behavior begins to seem 'normal'. :Oh crap

Guns are an issue but the root causes are far more complicated and nobody wants to deal with those so the easy thing is to just blame guns.

The US is a large country, if only 1/10th of 1 percent of its young population is affected by violent video games/movies, psych medications, vile social media/networking sites, etc it adds up to a pool of thousands of young male ticking time bombs.

I'm beginning to think that gun ownership should be restricted to people over 30, we don't let 13 year olds drive cars even though they are physically capable - almost all these mass murderers are teens and 20-somethings.

I've said before and I still believe that these shootings are a symptom of our modern society. Gun control laws won't stop them. Everyone carrying a gun won't stop them. Obama is not to blame. The reality is that these people are fucked in the head and they desperately want some kind of attention or at the very least they want to be recognized and /or validated. 30 years ago they likely would have just killed themselves or maybe a family member or someone that they blamed for their situation. Now they see the attention these things kind of get and it becomes their way of crying out and finally getting what they want.

If we are going to live in a world where everyone shares and posts their every thought and action of their daily life online with the world, we can't be shocked when people decide to go out in blaze of media glory when they decide they want to die.

bronco67 10-01-2015 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 20594040)
There are literally millions of weapons in circulation right now in the U.S. A vast number of them aren't registered and already in criminal hands. If they change the gun laws tomorrow, will all the criminals that illegally own guns turn them in? I don't think so, and with the make-believe border we have with Mexico, that means guns can come and go as they please. And in some cases, if you're in a ruthless cartel, the POTUS and Attorney General will provide them to you. :thumbsup

In other words, criminals will always have guns. ALWAYS. This isn't the UK or Australia, we're not an island. If I was hellbent on breaking the law, and even if the U.S. passes the most Draconian laws in all the land, I'll still be able to get one. Easily. And that's the point most people against gun control are trying to argue. Yeah, Liberals and the media paint the picture that everyone that owns a gun or against gun control are right wing lunatic nut jobs with a basement full of assault rifles and ammo wearing camouflage pants. That's about the furthest from the truth, but since the media paints that picture for the sheep, they follow it without question.

Address other underlying issues rather than trying to rewrite the Constitution. Guns don't kill people, crazy people with guns kill people. Can't say that enough. :2 cents:

Mass shootings aren't usually carried out by criminals using the fabled "black market gun".

Rochard 10-01-2015 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 20594040)
There are literally millions of weapons in circulation right now in the U.S. A vast number of them aren't registered and already in criminal hands. If they change the gun laws tomorrow, will all the criminals that illegally own guns turn them in? I don't think so, and with the make-believe border we have with Mexico, that means guns can come and go as they please. And in some cases, if you're in a ruthless cartel, the POTUS and Attorney General will provide them to you. :thumbsup

In other words, criminals will always have guns. ALWAYS. This isn't the UK or Australia, we're not an island. If I was hellbent on breaking the law, and even if the U.S. passes the most Draconian laws in all the land, I'll still be able to get one. Easily. And that's the point most people against gun control are trying to argue. Yeah, Liberals and the media paint the picture that everyone that owns a gun or against gun control are right wing lunatic nut jobs with a basement full of assault rifles and ammo wearing camouflage pants. That's about the furthest from the truth, but since the media paints that picture for the sheep, they follow it without question.

Address other underlying issues rather than trying to rewrite the Constitution. Guns don't kill people, crazy people with guns kill people. Can't say that enough. :2 cents:

Criminals will always have guns so long as we continue to arm them. It's just that simple.

TCLGirls 10-01-2015 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20594063)
Me saying "fuck you" to a guy who is a citizen of the very country the Second Amendment was put in place to protect us from is an "explosive reaction" that concerns you? LOL, stop being a pussy.




The 2nd Amendment was put into place in order to protect us from a certain country?

TCLGirls 10-01-2015 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20594068)
THAT college IS a gun free zone. A student may choose to carry but if caught, they face being kicked out and having to go through a legal battle to get back in.

Your argument does not make any sense. Oregon law says ccp holders can carry on all public college campuses. So that public college is not a gun free zone.

TCLGirls 10-01-2015 05:59 PM

http://libertynews.com/wp-content/up...PM-750x732.png

PorN-LinK 10-01-2015 06:01 PM

The GunMan

http://s2.postimg.org/npw079axl/hacjshake.jpg

BlackCrayon 10-01-2015 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane (Post 20594075)
I've said before and I still believe that these shootings are a symptom of our modern society. Gun control laws won't stop them. Everyone carrying a gun won't stop them. Obama is not to blame. The reality is that these people are fucked in the head and they desperately want some kind of attention or at the very least they want to be recognized and /or validated. 30 years ago they likely would have just killed themselves or maybe a family member or someone that they blamed for their situation. Now they see the attention these things kind of get and it becomes their way of crying out and finally getting what they want.

If we are going to live in a world where everyone shares and posts their every thought and action of their daily life online with the world, we can't be shocked when people decide to go out in blaze of media glory when they decide they want to die.

this sums it up.

SilentKnight 10-01-2015 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20594069)
1...If they were allowed to carry a gun.

Let's give a gun to a minimum wage security guard who paid his $80 licensing fee and passed the 20-minute online security certification quiz...but failed the police psych eval.


http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/73...1917156392.jpg

http://www.polecatsecuritytesting.co...rity-guard.jpg

EddyTheDog 10-01-2015 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCLGirls (Post 20594116)

He looks sad:Oh crap...

Not sure how he managed to hit anyone with that wonky eye though.....

TCLGirls 10-01-2015 06:09 PM


abshard 10-01-2015 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCLGirls (Post 20594135)

people are saying that's not the real shooter , 4chan members were saying this was the guy with fake twitter accounts

escorpio 10-01-2015 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane (Post 20594075)
I've said before and I still believe that these shootings are a symptom of our modern society. Gun control laws won't stop them. Everyone carrying a gun won't stop them. Obama is not to blame. The reality is that these people are fucked in the head and they desperately want some kind of attention or at the very least they want to be recognized and /or validated. 30 years ago they likely would have just killed themselves or maybe a family member or someone that they blamed for their situation. Now they see the attention these things kind of get and it becomes their way of crying out and finally getting what they want.

If we are going to live in a world where everyone shares and posts their every thought and action of their daily life online with the world, we can't be shocked when people decide to go out in blaze of media glory when they decide they want to die.

Quoted for sad truth. :(

SilentKnight 10-01-2015 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane (Post 20594075)
I've said before and I still believe that these shootings are a symptom of our modern society. Gun control laws won't stop them. Everyone carrying a gun won't stop them. Obama is not to blame. The reality is that these people are fucked in the head and they desperately want some kind of attention or at the very least they want to be recognized and /or validated. 30 years ago they likely would have just killed themselves or maybe a family member or someone that they blamed for their situation. Now they see the attention these things kind of get and it becomes their way of crying out and finally getting what they want.

If we are going to live in a world where everyone shares and posts their every thought and action of their daily life online with the world, we can't be shocked when people decide to go out in blaze of media glory when they decide they want to die.

Precisely...can't agree more.

You really have to wonder how many ticking timebombs there are among us these days.

Rochard 10-01-2015 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane (Post 20594075)
I've said before and I still believe that these shootings are a symptom of our modern society. Gun control laws won't stop them. Everyone carrying a gun won't stop them. Obama is not to blame. The reality is that these people are fucked in the head and they desperately want some kind of attention or at the very least they want to be recognized and /or validated. 30 years ago they likely would have just killed themselves or maybe a family member or someone that they blamed for their situation. Now they see the attention these things kind of get and it becomes their way of crying out and finally getting what they want.

If we are going to live in a world where everyone shares and posts their every thought and action of their daily life online with the world, we can't be shocked when people decide to go out in blaze of media glory when they decide they want to die.

This isn't part of "modern society". This is a part of American society, not "modern society". They don't have these issues in other "modern" countries.

JJ Gold 10-01-2015 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20594063)
Me saying "fuck you" to a guy who is a citizen of the very country the Second Amendment was put in place to protect us from is an "explosive reaction" that concerns you? LOL, stop being a pussy.

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

TCLGirls 10-01-2015 07:16 PM

" Chris Harper Mercer, 26, has been identified as the shooter responsible for taking the lives of at least 10 people at a community college in southwest Oregon earlier Thursday, law enforcement sources confirmed to CBS News. Law enforcement officers shot and killed Mercer in an exchange of gunfire later Thursday afternoon.

Law enforcement authorities responded to calls that there was an active shooter on campus at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon, at roughly 10:38 a.m. PDT. Ten people were killed and 20 more were injured. The shooter reportedly open fire in one building on campus before moving to the school?s science building. Victims were found in at least two buildings. Mercer allegedly asked people to stand up and state their religion, and then started firing, the News-Review, a local newspaper for Douglas County, Oregon, reported."

ilnjscb 10-01-2015 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCLGirls (Post 20594116)

Who is this? This isn't the shooter - this is:

http://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyM...16d75352d0.jpg

EddyTheDog 10-01-2015 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20594063)
Me saying "fuck you" to a guy who is a citizen of the very country the Second Amendment was put in place to protect us from is an "explosive reaction" that concerns you? LOL, stop being a pussy.

A lot has changed since then - In fact everything has changed - That's the point...

It's people like you (us) that would have felt the first bullets.....

TCLGirls 10-01-2015 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilnjscb (Post 20594171)
Who is this? This isn't the shooter - this is:

http://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyM...16d75352d0.jpg


Yeah the first picture was the one being spread on 4chan, but turns out that's not the shooter.

Rochard 10-01-2015 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCLGirls (Post 20594116)

I'd hit it.

Rob 10-01-2015 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PorN-LinK (Post 20594121)

This is the actual gun man. Not sure who that other dipshit is.

arock10 10-01-2015 08:00 PM

Why do we have gun control laws, people are still going to die from gun related shootings. Why do we have seat belts, people are still going to die from car wrecks

Joshua G 10-01-2015 08:20 PM

i might offer up a new angle. that all these spree shooters are early 20 something white males who are depressed/angry that the only happy place, is cyberspace.

its a millenial thing, tied to the use of SSRI meds. yep, it comes back to big pharma poisoning our kids developing brains with unproven meds. this didnt happen to previous generations, before SSRI's.

newtown shooter, colorado shooter, VA tech shooter, the santa barbara wingnut last year, all took these meds im sure of it. they were all seeing shrinks, & the only thing shrinks do anymore is sell drugs.

no gun laws are gonna stop a drug & culture induced epidemic.

:2 cents:

astronaut x 10-01-2015 08:21 PM

This problem is going nowhere and it is only going to get worse. No gun law is going to stop it unless it's aimed directly at the manufacturing and lobbying groups. Unfortunately, there are already way too many guns out there to see any decline of these incidents in the foreseeable future.

Personally, I have no problem with hunting rifles, shotguns and handguns. I support more extensive background checks on those who want to obtain them.

We are never going to stop people from doing harm with those if they choose to do so, but there is absolutely no need for assault weapons or any other firearm that can shoot off more than five or six rounds. There needs to be a complete ban on the manufacturing and possession of such. This includes weapons that can be reloaded quickly or modified to accept clips.

Joshua G 10-01-2015 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCLGirls (Post 20594116)

wrong pic? WTF. 2 weeks ago you posted the wrong clock bomb pic. Then last week you tried to convince me VW actually harmed something by contributing an additional 0.00001% more NOx into the earths ginormous airmass.

Wow you really live in oompa-loompa-land...

http://static03.mediaite.com/thebrai...pa-loompas.jpg


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