You seem to base your information on Israelian and pro-Israelian sources only. I base mine on Israelian, Arabian, American and European sources, and try to filter out the crap which they all contain. Now, if you want to call that being misinformed, go right ahead.

Now, about the anti-semite stuff, apart from the fact that the word has been hijacked, it is still used quite often for being anti-arabian etc. Just a few weeks ago I got called an anti-semite for kicking the crap out of an arab that tried to grab my girlfriend's tits. So, I'll go with the historically correct interpretation that is also commonly used.

1. Wrong. And I didn't say media - I said leaders. ALL settlements issues were resloved in that proposed agreement in the following way. Big settlements (big means cities. big ones) with a close border with the proposed Israel territories were kept. ALL small settlements were either joined into the big settlements OR - if desolated, were evacuated. ALL territories of settlements taken by israel were compensated by alternative land by border corrections. These are the facts - been discussed time and again on the sell prime-time segments (since noone cares about the good offers).
Even Abu-Mazen - the new "PM" of the palestinian authorities claims it was a mistake taking the road of violence instead of the agreement. Other prominent palestinian thinkers said that it was an historical mistake on behalf of the palestinian authority not to take the deal (saying in other words - Arafat has a dumb mothaFucka not to take it). If they come to that conclusion - so can you.
Was it the perfect wet dream of the most militant palestinian? No - peace agreements are never perfect. Thats life. But this one was as close to a wet dream as the palestinian will ever get imho. I dont think they will get the same offer anymore. Its a shame - but thats life.

2. There is no place for belife here. Its a fact. Noone will go on TV and say "Hey. I am the leader of ___ government and I think Arafat is a goddamn MOTHER FUCKER who should have accepted the agreement". But that is a fact. You need to read and think - not believe. As I said - even the palestinian diplomats think that.
BTW - the poor leader of the Palestinians has USD$350,000,000. Thats his PERSONAL bankaccount. Thats your money dude (among other EU countries). And you know what he usees this money for? No - not hospitals.

OMG.....

LMFAO....

Dude, I read sources from all over the place including a lot of Arabic press. The Arabic press is the scariest. I also read plenty of European sources. In fact, I have VOLUMES of information at home from Arabic and European sources which I'd be more than happy to share with you.

1. I dont know about JimmySF. but i pesonally am in Israel.
I watch the Israeli media as well as CNN,BBC,Sky,Fox and others. I have access to the net. Sorry I don't watch Dubai TV - but last I say, they had a documentary about how me and my friends drink blood of little palestinian children - so maybe I should disregard these channels. I have enough access to all the channels I wanmt or need.
The fact is - you seem - inspite of all your news-sources to not know the facts about simple and fundemental issues like the biggest peace offer that was offered to the Palestinian by Israel. So what's the worth of your claim? Its not access to the media - its how and if you use it. Check the facts.

2. Ease up man. Its a known fact - Antisemitism is most commony used as anti-Jewish. Yes- sematic is sematic. Anti-sematic is vastly anti-jewish. Could semantically be regarded as anti-sematic in general but its less "popular".
Why are you arguing that pointless issue??

____________________________________

DIE THREAD. DIE :ak47:

Hey Punk, here are some Arab sources....



"Why are they (the Jews) hated by all the people which hosted them, such as Iraq and Egypt thousands of years ago, and Germany, Spain, France and the UK, up to the days they gained power over the capital and the press, in order to rewrite history?" (article, Arabic-language "Ar-Riyadh," April 15, 20002)

"But the notion that the Israelis are reacting with blind, brainless fury is less horrifying than the idea that Sharon has a solution in mind. For is he does, it looks all too chillingly like a 'final solution": the permanent eradication, one way or another, of the Palestinians as a threat to Israel. "

(editorial, English-language "Arab News," April 14, 2002)

"Life stopped in 'Israel' yesterday for two minutes (ed: for Holocaust Memorial Day siren) while the warning siren whistled all over the occupied territories of Palestine, in memory of the 6 million Jews, about whom 'Israel' lies saying that they were killed in the Nazi crematoriums during the World War II." (article, Arab-language "Ar-Riyadh," April 10, 2002)


And for your favorite Holocaust Denials...



Jews haved "profited... from the talk about the Nazi killings"

On August 25, 1997, a Palestinian Authority cultural affairs television program featured an interview with Hassan al-Agha, a Palestinian author and professor at the Islamic University in Gaza City:

Moderator: It is well known that every year the Jews exaggerate what the Nazis did to them. They claim there were six million killed, but precise scientific research demonstrates that there were no more than 400,000. Has the complex which the Jews have as a result of the Nazis' actions created within them psychological burdens which they are now releasing against the Palestinians?

Al-Agha: The truth is I do not think so. Psychological baggage after forty or fifty years?.I am skeptical?.But I do think that we are talking about an investment. They have profited materially, spiritually, politically and economically from the talk about the Nazi killings. This investment is favorable to them and they view it as a profitable activity so they inflate the number of victims all the time. In another ten years, I do not know what number they will reach?As you know, when it comes to economics and investments, the Jews have been very experienced ever since the days of the Merchant of Venice.

David Bar-Ilan, a spokesman for then Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, released the transcript of the program to Western reporters, who covered the incident in English media. Several days later Radwan Abu Ayash, head of the Palestinian Broadcast Corporation, announced that Al-Agha's remarks did not reflect the opinion of the Palestinian Authority, but defended them as "freedom of expression."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Israel prospers and exists by right of the Holocaust lie"

"Israel prospers and exists by right of the Holocaust lie and the Israeli government's policy of intentional exaggeration?the glue which holds the Jews together is the preservation of the memory of the Holocaust and the thousands of Jews who were destroyed in it?"

Lebanese writer and politician Dr. Issam Naaman,
writing in the London Arab newspaper Al-Quds Al-Arabi.
April 22, 1998
(translated by the Antisemitism Monitoring Forum)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"There is no proof at all..."

"The entire Jewish State is built on the great Holocaust lie. . . What is the proof that Hitler and the Nazis murdered six million Jews in gas chambers? There is no proof at all, except for the conflicting testimonies of a few Jewish 'survivors.' If six million Jews had been burned, mountains of ashes would have been created, but we have never heard of this. There are also no ovens that are capable of burning millions without someone noticing the smell. There is no proof that such a number of Jews lived in Germany in the 1930s. Their number was less than four million and half of them fled to the Soviet Union during the war?.

"Hitler did not kill the Jews because they were Jews, but rather because they betrayed Germany. In any case, he murdered 300,000 Jews and that is the real number that he killed. At this opportunity mention should be made of the fact that the Jewish State murdered a larger number of Palestinians and Arabs over fifty years. The Holocaust is not what happened to the Jews in Germany, but rather the crime of the establishment of the State of Israel on the ruins of the Palestinian people."

Mahmoud Al-Khatib,
writing in the Jordanian newspaper Al-Arab Al-Yom
April 27, 1998
(translated by the Antisemitism Monitoring Forum)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Holocaust is a "tissue of lies"

"The Catholic Church in particular and the church in general should not be made to apologize to the Zionists and Jews for the Hitlerian legend?[the Holocaust is] a tissue of lies, as has been revealed by Western scientists, and it is being used to blackmail the world."

Sheikh Mohammad Mehdi Shamseddin,
head of Lebanon's Shiite Council,
Reported by the Agence France-Presse, March 22, 1998.
He was responding to the Vatican's release of "We Remember: A Reflection on the Shoah," a document that accepted the culpability of some Christians for the perpetration of the Holocaust.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The truth is that such persecution was a malicious fabrication by the Jews."

"Everywhere, the Jews have been the subjects of hatred and disdain because they control most of the economic resources upon which the livelihoods of many people are dependent. The clearest example of this is Shakespeare's play The Merchant of Venice, in which the merchant Shylock represents the image of the greedy, cunning, evil, and despised Jews. And yet, how have the Jews succeeded in brainwashing American and European public opinion and changing the image of the Jew to that of a wise, brave, ingenious and creative person to whom the world's eyes are turned?

"There is no alternative but to say that the success of the Jews is not coincidental but rather the result of long years of planning and a great investment of effort in order to obtain their wretched control over the world's media?.When Nazi persecutions of the Jews began, the winds began blowing in their favor. What Hitler did to the Jews actually exposed the Jewish plot. World public opinion, manipulated by the Jews, took advantages of these [persecutions], disseminating stories about a collective massacre. They concocted horrible stories of gas chambers which Hitler, they claimed used to burn them alive. The press overflowed with pictures of Jews being gunned down by Hitler's machine guns or being pushed into gas chambers. The [press] focused on [suffering] women, children and elderly people in order to rouse empathy and claim reparations, donations, and grants from around the world.

"The truth is that such persecution was a malicious fabrication by the Jews. It is a myth which they named 'The Holocaust' in order to rouse empathy. Credible historians challenge this Jewish [myth], calling for [more] persuasive evidence to be presented. The Los Angeles Historical Society declared that it would grant US$50,000 to anyone who could prove Jews had been gassed to death. Jews exerted intense pressure and cast accusations of anti-Semitism everywhere in order to silence this challenge. Even if Hitler's onslaught facilitated the persecution of Jews to some degree, Jews certainly benefited from its aftermath?"

from "Jewish Control of the World Media" by Seif `Ali Al-Jarwan,
writing in the Palestinian newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah.
July 2, 1998
(translated by MEMRI)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Burp... Sorry, I just finished my main meal, and waiting that my French camembert becomes " coulant" : then it is delicious.

Sorry if I go off topic, but you got my attention here: they grab your girlfriends tits.... Hum... How are they: big, small, firm or hard. small or big nipples....


Hey come on. llet's get a bit of tension out of here...

After all. I am the NAZI...

Oups, my camembert is ready , and I am having a " Chorey-les-Beaune" red wine ( frtench of course from the Cote d'or).

OK, blast each other now.


Lastr note: saw a documentary on Marocco with the Islam autorothies... Pretty fucked up: four kids got 20 years for performing rock-punk music....

I think we should all ban religions outright....

Sorry for the interruption....

1. I remember what it was now - Palestinian refugees didn't have the right to return to Palestinia. Something considered "rather" important by many Palestinians. That made the proposal unacceptable to a large number of Palestinians.

2. You read, you think, then you come to a belief.
This is not a fact. Like I said, most world leaders did think that Arafat should agree, but many had reservations towards the lacking points, because those made it unlikely - if not impossible - that Arafat would agree.

Now, once again with regards the stuff about Arafat being corrupt - really, I believe you. I also think he shouldn't be in power there. However, this point has very little if anything to do with the discussion at hand.

not much, the stores are shit in the gaza strip

I read The Guardian and The Independent daily. (UK) Hardly pro-Israel.

I generally read Op-Ed, european, American, Israeli, Arab....

Well, has it occurred to you that your media do the same thing as their media in a less crude way? There is no value-free objective reporting, really. I'm not talking about a media conspiracy either (or a UN conspiracy, or any conspiracy for that matter), but about the simple fact that different points of view give different interpretations of the things that happen.

Now, I admit I got one thing wrong - wasn't too sure about it when I wrote it (hence the questionmark), and it turned out to be something else. However, the rest of the argument stands.

Excuse me for asking, but how in the world did you get the idea of using that interpretation of the history of Israel as a fact then? Written by a rabbi, from a site with the following description: "Aish HaTorah is an apolitical, international network of Jewish educational centers, providing opportunities for Jews of all backgrounds to discover the wisdom and beauty of their heritage in an atmosphere of open inquiry and mutual respect."

That is like quoting Arafat as an objective source of the situation in Israel...

OMG....I used that source because it just so happens to be the most accurate, concise source on the subject, and I happen to know Rabbi Spiro. I know his character. I trust him. And he backs up his material with sources.

Out of curiosity, how did you become so anti-Semitic (er...anti-Jewish), although it sounds like you don't limit your bigotry to Jews?

I didnt say it was acceptable with 99.9% of the palestinians - I said it was with 99.99999% with the leaders of the western world.
Not only that - but most palestinians don't care about that as well. not 99% but 90%. They want a land of their own no? - its not like they are fighting to live inside the Israeli cities. We strive for seperation - not more mixed-up/fucked-up situation.

Saying palestinians rejected the peace offer is dumb. Its ARAFAT not palestinians who rejected the agreement. Its a DICTATORSHIP dude. Not democracy. Every thinking palestinan realizes he is better off living in his own country, not - after fighting for his own country for so long - among strangers and Israelis without any right and relation to the place. I thought its better having your own country than living as a stranger without rights.

One thing I can tell you is...
ME and 100% of the thinking people in the western world will never accept the right of return of palestinans into Israel.
If you have little brain (I want to assume you do have more than a little) you CLEARLY see that point very easily.
NEVER will that point get through. NEVER will it be accepted. NEVER. Israel is a country - not a playground. The people living there are Israelis (Arab, jews, christians etc... but Israelis). "Palestine for the Palestnians" thats the motto. no?

Get your shit together man. Stop this pointless endless fight. You are playing with shit now.

Where exactky did you get the idea that I am anti-Jewish or intolerant? I believe all people have the right to live in freedom - including the arabs. Exactly what is anti-Jewish about that?

No - your arguments dont stand. You keep on arguing because you don't like to stand corrected.
The peace offer was UNIVERSALLY/COSMICALLY wrong not to accept.
I will not argue with you on that anymore. If you have other point you want to discuss I am willing to talk.

About your media point - You are so all over the place man. You have no sense of prespective. You compare point of view to pure anti-semitism, hate propoganda and outright lies?

In case you are not sure about that as well....
I do NOT drink blood of arab children

This guy does: he is Count Dracula!

http://www.ibillsucks.info/files/vampire.jpg

No, he isn't jewish....

:eek7 :eyecrazy :eek7

<FONT SIZE=+3>DIE THREAD DIE</FONT>
http://www.xxxmanager.com/docs/fun/nepal1.jpg

Dead!!!!

:ak47: :ak47: :ak47:

Last post from me, I promise ;)

I keep on arguing because I simply and plainly do not agree with you. I said "Well, I think that if Israel gave the Palestinians a fair deal, many of them would shut up.". And, I stick to that. I am not saying all would shut up, I'm not saying Arafat would shut up, but most would. Shut up that is.
Now, both sides have some key issues of which they won't let go (the refugees for instance). The problem with that is that it means that there is no "fair deal" for both sides. So, diplomatically the problem won't be solved, and as long as it's not solved, the vicious circle of attacks and retaliations will continue.

What imo needs to be done is quite simple - the UN needs to step in, create a deal for both sides (which will not be "fair" for either side, since compromises somehow are never considered fair), and enforce it. Nobody will be happy, but the killing will stop.

Now, about the media, what you continue doing is only looking from your own point of view, and seeing the western media as objective, or at least close to that. They are not. A simple example is that a majority of Americans now believe Saddam Hussain was responsible for 9/11 - which we all know is total nonsense.
If you believe a large part of the western media, arabs are all bloodthirsty fundamentalist terrorists who want to kill everyone in Israel, Europe and America. That is not the case, just like you don't sacrifice babies to your heathen idol to then drink their blood.

Damn it! I thought we were finished with this post.


The western media is not objective. No media is objective. But the western media is at least more objective than the media in Arab and Muslim countries.

You state that if you believe the western media Arabs are all blood thirsty fundamentalist terrorists. Well, at least in the U.S. this couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, they've tried to completely downplay the fact that so many Arabs sympathize with Osama. I can't tell you how many programs I've seen on MSNBC or ABC portraying "regular" Arabs. Practically every morning on Good Morning America, they report from Arab countries showing everyday Arab citizens, women, children, etc., portraying them not as fundamentalist terrorists, but as humans.

And as far as most Americans thinkiing Saddam is responsible for 9/11. That is utter nonsense. Have you ever read the book "How to Lie With Statistics"? You can manipulate data any way you want. I can assure you the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF AMERICANS BLAME 9/11 ON OSAMA BIN LADEN AND AL-QAEDA.


Finally, per your suggestion that the killing will stop if the UN steps in with a compromise. That's highly idealistic. How old are you? Most of the violence is perpetrated by the same people who believe all Jews should be driven into the ocean.

<FONT SIZE=+2>Give Peace a Chance
- John Lennon
Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout
Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Ragism, Tagism
This-ism, that-ism, ism ism ism
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
(C'mon)
Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout
Minister, Sinister, Banisters and Canisters,
Bishops, Fishops, Rabbis, and Pop Eyes, Bye bye, Bye byes
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
(Let me tell you now)
Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout
Revolution, Evolution, Masturbation, Flagellation, Regulation,
Integrations, mediations, United Nations, congratulations
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout
John and Yoko, Timmy Leary, Rosemary,
Tommy Smothers, Bobby Dylan, Tommy Cooper,
Derek Taylor, Norman Mailer, Alan Ginsberg, Hare Krishna
Hare Hare Krishna
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
(Repeat 'til the tape runs out)
</FONT>
http://www.xxxmanager.com/docs/fun/nepal3.jpg