It's meant to limit the number of entry points from one area to another, making it easier for the Israeli army to check people and make sure they don't have bombs strapped to their chests.

Very different from the Berlin Wall which was built by the Commies to prevent their own citizens from leaving because it sucked in East Germany.

I really don't see how people can even compare the two.

Hi directfiesta,

Just wanted to say that you are an ass hole :321GFY
You can't bring only one side of the story and to say the the Israelies are fucked up.

I think that an Arab lover like yourself should go out and see the dead Israelies after the bombes or the dead Americans after the 11/9 then we will see if you will keep your Ideas.

Mean while GFY :321GFY

That's simply not true. The Palestinians react as much as the Israeli's do. Or do you think they instantly forget everything Israel does?

In Warsow, the germans were saying the same:

German acts, jews react.... Knew they were right!

??????? serious ?????

And the Israeli army coming in at night in the "occupied territory" is to throw a picnic????

The Palestinians are at least honest about targeting civilians when they don't have military options. Nothing wrong with that. Its been accepted military doctrine in the West since WWII.

The Israeli's on the other hand kill a bunch of civilians -- like that crowded apartment complex they bombed at midday last fall -- then start with the "oops! Were there CIVILIANS in there? Oh my! We're SO sorry!" bullshit.

hahahaha

Grow a brain :winkwink:

Damn...the Israeli wall is to keep Palestinians out and the Berlin wall was to keep people in. End of explaining.

No, he didn't.
comprehension problem?:1orglaugh

Well, judging from your different posts, you don't strike me as someone who possesses a higher education.
Great news, you can now go to a regular college in Florida with a GED. See, there is still hope for you.

If Palestinians left Israel alone, Israel would not act against the Palestinians, thus Israel reacts and does not act.

Oh jeez, give me a break.....

Israel retaliates, it's a simple as that. Why do you insist on legitimizing Palestinian terrorism?



BTW....DF.....check out this link:

http://www.wagingpeace.org/articles/...01gilwhite.htm

Waging Peace is a very liberal website/thinktank. The article above is written by a professor who believes America's foreign policy completely corrupt and devoid of noble purpose.

I obviously disagree with him, but what is interesting is to read what he says about Israel. He acknowledges that he made a HUGE mistake about Israel and her conduct. Look at #8. He points the numerous misconceptions we have (particularly Europe has) about the Israel-Palestine conflict. He doesn't excuse Israel for all her actions, but establishes context.

Read it and tell me what you think.

Your sig seems to have mysteriously vanished... finally realized it made you look like an idiot?
Oh, and about education: I was actually referring to your maturity level (which was very accurately shown by the sig that has now vanished). However, I'm quite sure I beat you hands down in terms of education as well.

If you want to know the truth, I really don't like arabs ( maybe the girls ...). I don't like their barbaric sounding language ( not more tough than Hebrew that I learned to get married) , I don't trust them, and in fact I don't think I have a single arab friend....
I have quite a few Jewish friends, aside from my ex inlaws... ( hungarian Jews - Russian).

Again, since I really don't like the arabs, I admit I don't like the marrocan jews. I suspect zionist_dave555ad is one of them.

So you are off track and self centered.

The point is that in a world where we are suipposed to live the fall of borders ( EU, North america threaties,) Israel is going the other way, not taking in consideration the public opinion, the wishes of the US administration...

Wonder if Bush would have enough balls to say the same he says to Iraq to Israel... After all, it is population oppression....

That was the thread .....

If Israel left Palestinians alone (and I do include stopping the occupation of their territory in that), the Palestinians would cease these actions as well.
The problem here really is a little more complicated than "good side, bad side".

Uh, no.....

The Palestinians are notorious for using civilian shields. Israel does not intentionally kill civilians. Israel, is and has been at war. War is ugly. Civilians get caught in the crossfire. It's as simple as that.

If you want to talk about double standards, Europe has long held Israel under a double standard for years. Imagine if you put France or the UK in Israels position. Shit, you don't have to imagine, just read your history books. Israel acts with far more restraint than European colonialists ever did.

Page 1 :

So then, why was it wrong in Berlin???


Normally, question marks means that this is not an affirmation but a question.. When you graduate to 18 clicks, maybe ytou will answer.

Till then, shut up.

Oh, and for those that still believe the "good side, bad side" thing. Here are some UN resolutions against Israel:

1955-1992:
* Resolution 106: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid".
* Resolution 111: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people".
* Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".
* Resolution 162: " . . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions".
* Resolution 171: " . . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria".
* Resolution 228: " . . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control".
* Resolution 237: " . . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees".
* Resolution 248: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan".
* Resolution 250: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".
* Resolution 251: " . . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".
* Resolution 252: " . . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".
* Resolution 256: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation".
* Resolution 259: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation".
* Resolution 262: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport".
* Resolution 265: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan".
* Resolution 267: " . . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".
*Resolution 270: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon".
* Resolution 271: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".
* Resolution 279: " . . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon".
* Resolution 280: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon".
* Resolution 285: " . . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon".
* Resolution 298: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".
* Resolution 313: " . . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon".
* Resolution 316: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon".
* Resolution 317: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon".
* Resolution 332: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon".
* Resolution 337: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty".
* Resolution 347: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon".
* Resolution 425: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
* Resolution 427: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
* Resolution 444: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces".
* Resolution 446: " . . . 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious
obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
* Resolution 450: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon".
* Resolution 452: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories".
* Resolution 465: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member
states not to assist Israel's settlements program".
* Resolution 467: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon".
* Resolution 468: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of
two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return".
* Resolution 469: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the
council's order not to deport Palestinians".
* Resolution 471: " . . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide
by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
* Resolution 476: " . . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".
* Resolution 478: " . . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its
claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'".
* Resolution 484: " . . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported
Palestinian mayors".
* Resolution 487: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's
nuclear facility".
* Resolution 497: " . . . 'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan
Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith".
* Resolution 498: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon".
* Resolution 501: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops".
* Resolution 509: " . . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon".
* Resolution 515: " . . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and
allow food supplies to be brought in".
* Resolution 517: " . . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions
and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
* Resolution 518: " . . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon".
* Resolution 520: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut".
* Resolution 573: " . . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia
in attack on PLO headquarters.
* Resolution 587: " . . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw
its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw".
* Resolution 592: " . . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students
at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops".
* Resolution 605: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices
denying the human rights of Palestinians.
* Resolution 607: " . . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly
requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
* Resolution 608: " . . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians".
* Resolution 636: " . . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
* Resolution 641: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
* Resolution 672: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians
at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
* Resolution 673: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United
Nations.
* Resolution 681: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of
Palestinians.
* Resolution 694: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and
calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
* Resolution 726: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
* Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians
and calls for there immediate return.

That is wrong.

Everytime Israel eased back the Palestinians sent more suicide bombers.

Israel gives a little, and the Palestinians use the leeway to kill more Israeli buses full of kids.

Ya most countries have things called "walled borders" Just because US/Canada doesnt, doesnt mean the rest of the world doesnt.


Exactly.

Fuck off

Of course they don't. When they rocketed that civilian apartment complex and bulldozed those civilian houses 2 days ago, they couldn't POSSIBLY have known they would encounter civilians!

You are right, how could I possibly have thought such a thing? Bad me!

:1orglaugh

Certain Palestinian groups most certainly do not want peace. Please note that I said "certain". Not all.
Besides that, one thing you have to understand is that Israel eases back <b>a little</b>, when it eases back at all. Compare it to someone robbing you and saying "Well, I guess I'll let you keep your pants, but I'll take the rest". Would you then be very grateful to that person?

I am fully aware that there are issues involved. Israel is willing to make certain concessions to the Palestinians, but the Palestinians will never, ever, get all that they want, period. Israel will not even negotiate while it is under attack. Israel, in its retaliation, kills many more Palestinians than Palestinians kill Israelis. I would advise the Palestinians to grow a collective brain, before Israel says fuck this nonsense and takes total control of all of the land.

Thanks for giving me a great laugh, and remember: stay in school!

Well, I think that if Israel gave the Palestinians a fair deal, many of them would shut up. Ofcourse, there would still be groups fighting the Israeli's, but those would not have the support of the majority of the Palestinians, and should be dealt with quickly and harshly.
However, if you punish all for the actions of some, you will get all against you. What would you do if someone in your city would start fighting the government, and because of that the government purposely destroyed your business, even though you had nothing to do with it?

They offered Palestine a very fair deal 3 or 4 years ago. Palestine said "screw you" and sent more suicide bombers.

I certainly do not approve of many of the retalitory actions by Israel, because it does not obtain the desired result. The facts are that there would not be retaliation if the Palestinians would cease and desist. The actions of the Palestinians will not get the desired result either, just more, and stronger retalitory response.

That wasn't a "fair deal". In fact, some crucial issues were left out that made it 100% certain beforehand that it would be unacceptable to the Palestinians.
Besides that, "Hamaz" does not equal "all Palestinians".

Not exactly a fair deal, but the best offer to date, and probably the best offer they would have ever gotten, and I doubt that the same offer will be made again.

But if the Palestinians would cease and desist, they would have no way to regain what they (and the UN as well) consider rightfully theirs. Now, ofcourse the bombing doesn't work, and only makes things worse. The point is that they are fighting the current situation, and by doing nothing that situation would continue to exist.

Had to ship some porn to Houston. Texas.... No jokes, 27 cassettes ...


Fuck, it seems I lost my " nazi" nickname

I was thinking if I had the choice of going out with 5 jews or 5 arabs, I would not hesitate: with the jews .... ( except if the arabs are all girls ...). This is why I am a NAZI .

Snow is melting here. I received my concrete cement blocks... Wait till I wall in my neighboor ....

They did fuckup there. A bad deal is better thabn no deal ....

Gee whiz, why do you think they're going in? Because some kid made prank phone calls?

ahahahaha, go ahead and pretend you were talking to me assclown.:1orglaugh
I laughed at your stupid question on page one and I'll laugh at it on page 2.

Want to know the reason why people don't succeed in life?
its because some of them REALLY don't know the answer to "So then, why was it wrong in Berlin???" :1orglaugh

Accepted military doctrine? What makes you say that?

If the Isreali's wanted to kill Palestinians don't you think they could do so in far greater numbers than they are? Help me out, which side has the stated goal of driving the other into the sea?

While I'm growing a brain, perhaps you should go read a little history and learn how to use yours.

I am sorry for your failure in life ....

If your neighbor was lobbing hand grenades at your house, I'd even help you build your wall.

This is what makes the UN worthless. Israel is protecting itself against a people who want to destroy them. When these same people bring up "resolutions" for a vote saying "we deplore Israels defense of itself"
the UN becomes a group of irrelevant talking heads.

Hmmm... More evidence that the UN is not living up to function.

ahahahaha, back to the trite french canadian come backs. :1orglaugh

I think he has some, even tough I never saw them....
I sent people in to check, they told me he was cooperating.

But what the fuck, I need to protect myself, so I will go ahead ...

good fences make good neighbors!

Let's not forget that they were offered a very fair deal when Israel was founded in 1948. There would be an arab state and a Jewish state. What did they Arabs choose? They wanted the whole thing, so they all attacked Israel.

You have explained it to yourself, bombing doesn't work, but I do not think the current situation will continue to exist. If they do not cease and desist, I believe Israel will reach its breaking point, and tell the USA to get fucked (as I am satisfied it has been the USA that has restrained them up to this point in time) and just take control of all of the land and the people in it.

"We are giving a major portion of your land to other people" generally isn't taken as a "very fair deal".

Do you know what this proves? It proves how utterly useless the UN is when it comes to these matters, and it also offers more proof of the UN's history of anti-semitism. After the UN agreed Israel should have the right to be a country (only on heals of genocide), the UN has proven time and again to be a voice of anti-Semitism.

Was it not the UN who gave a standing ovation to a gun-toting Yassir Arafat back in the 70s during Arafat's most aggressive terrorist policies?

If they now stop the attacks, the current situation will continue to exist, and they won't be able to do anything about it. They find that unacceptable.
Now, ofcourse suicide bombings only make things worse, but they have very little else they can do. And remember, every time anyone does something, Israel takes it out on the Palestinians as an entire group, which has the same effect on the Palestinians as the suicide bombings on the Israeli's.

I think the only solution to this situation would be UN forces securing the area, and both parties being forced to co-exist and come to an agreement.

DirectFiesta..
I was thinking about what you say and decided you are right.
I will let terrorists in just cause its not nice to lock them out - I will sacrifice my mother, father, brothers and sisters, friends and fellow citizens just cause you say its not nice having safe borders.
I realize now I was selfish. After all my parents lived enough already and I have enough friends so I can spare some.
Thanks for alerting me of the wrongs.

And people call the "lefties" conspiracy nuts...

OMG....that's not at all how it happended. Have you studied the middle east at all?

There was no country of Palestine at that time. They weren't taking their land and giving it away. They offered a solution. One jewish state, one arab state.

Do you realize that the whole concept of the modern nation-state is European? More Jews had been living in Palestine than Arabs at the turn of the century. Arabs only moved there after Jews made something out of the inhospitable land. Moreover, there were no fucking countries in the middle east until after WWI when England and France carved out countries out of the Ottoman Empire. Iran, Iraq, Syria, Jordan? These were all created by European colonists.

Jews had long lobbied to have their own country as well. They'd been living there too. They've been persecuted throughout the middle east. Why don't they have the right to self-determination.

Well, there were a few people who agreed. Remember the Balfour Declaration. But, of course, Europe couldn't give a shit about the Jews and gave most of the land to the Arabs, until after WWII and 6M jews had to die before Europe would acknowledge that Jews should be entitled to land that they were exiled from.