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Old 08-10-2014, 06:52 PM   #51
MaDalton
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Originally Posted by Cherry7 View Post
Your question contained the assertion to the rebel leaders were Russian nationals, do you have evidence of that?
it is not even a secret that both Borodai and Strelkow/Girkin are russian nationals with russian passports...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Borodai

so as usual just deflecting and denying and no answer about what or who made those guys interfere in the Ukraine

or you're just stupid (or ignorant) for not knowing this until now - that is also a possibility
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Old 08-10-2014, 07:01 PM   #52
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a great deal of people in that area with russian passports. but, whatever right?
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Old 08-10-2014, 07:03 PM   #53
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meanwhile, the Ukrainian side is targeting chemical plants with hurricane heavy artillery that will eventually cause an ecological disaster that will cover a square 300 km area.. including where the investigation is going.

but hey. the rebel leaders have passports. lets talk about that.
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Old 08-10-2014, 07:14 PM   #54
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:21 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by SpicyM View Post
The most important thing is what the majority wants.. That is democratic.

Fuck the pro-Russian terrorists, hope the army will take care of them.
Do you understand that your post above is a nonsense? At first you have stated that democracy is will of the majority. In fact the majority in Crimea and Western Ukraine do not want to live in same country with the Western so-called pro-EU neo-NAZIs like MrDiez (as you may note, he is a typical fascist). After that you say "fuck 'em". And where is the logic? Fuck the democracy? Here you go man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:25 AM   #56
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everything I have to say I have already said in this thread
I did ask you a straight question. And I didn't ask something that you said already.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:41 AM   #57
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Old 08-11-2014, 01:03 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by MaDalton View Post
it is not even a secret that both Borodai and Strelkow/Girkin are russian nationals with russian passports...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Borodai

so as usual just deflecting and denying and no answer about what or who made those guys interfere in the Ukraine

or you're just stupid (or ignorant) for not knowing this until now - that is also a possibility
You are dead right I feel ignorant about the situation in the Ukraine, how can anyone feel informed when all sources of information are hell bent on disinformation.

I was on a demonstration about Gaza with thousands of others on Saturday, I watched both Channel 4 news and BBC not a word. Russia Today had it covered as well as demonstrations in Paris and Berlin.

I am sure that Russia is involved in the Ukraine's affairs, but that is not helped by the West's blatant interference and regime change.

As the resident communist I call for ALL foreign forces to stay out of the Ukraine and for all the oligarchs to be striped of the wealth and power they have stolen. For free elections and democratic control of the economy.

Cuba decided it wanted a different economic model and to ally itself with the Soviet Union, did the West respect its right to do that as in independent country? No, it attacked it and blockaded it, and it still does.
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:39 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by MaDalton View Post
it is not even a secret that both Borodai and Strelkow/Girkin are russian nationals with russian passports...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Borodai

so as usual just deflecting and denying and no answer about what or who made those guys interfere in the Ukraine

or you're just stupid (or ignorant) for not knowing this until now - that is also a possibility
Russians are among the members of an ethnic-Russian militia in a Russian-majority area of Ukraine, bordering Russia? Scary stuff!


Ukrainian army is fighting side by side with neo-Nazis (and foreign fighters) against their own people. But you don't have a problem with that, so you're just being an ignorant.

few articles from the last few days, Kiev's openly neo-Nazi battalion leads Donetsk invasion

English: Ukraine crisis: the neo-Nazi brigade fighting pro-Russian separatists
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...paratists.html

German: Neonazis im Auftrag der Regierung
http://www.fr-online.de/ukraine/ukra...,28083302.html

Danish: Ekstremister kćmper for en plads ved fronten
http://www.b.dk/globalt/ekstremister...ds-ved-fronten

Quote:
the western-backed government in Kiev is throwing militia groups ? some openly neo-Nazi - into the front of the battle.
Quote:
Recently formed battalions such as Donbas, Dnipro and Azov, with several thousand men under their command, are officially under the control of the interior ministry but their financing is murky, their training inadequate and their ideology often alarming.
Quote:
The Azov men use the neo-Nazi Wolfsangel (Wolf?s Hook) symbol on their banner and members of the battalion are openly white supremacists, or anti-Semites.
Quote:
Azov?s extremist profile and slick English?language pages on social media have even attracted foreign fighters. Mr Biletsky says he has men from Ireland, Italy, Greece and Scandinavia. At the base in Urzuf, Mikael Skillt, 37, a former sniper with the Swedish Army and National Guard, leads and trains a reconnaissance unit.
For ignorant people like you, neo-Nazi battalion in action




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Don't worry, if west don't support them, it will be cleaned in hours
You were absolutely right. VICE's report



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Originally Posted by Zyber View Post

Sahra Wagenknecht is an old communist and she is way too extreme for anyone to take her seriously. Her pro-Russia / pro-USSR bias is crystal clear.
pro-Russia bias?? Sahra is a far-left, Russia is ruled by oligarchs..

+ Die Linke is the third strongest in German politics
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:10 AM   #60
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English: Ukraine crisis: the neo-Nazi brigade fighting pro-Russian separatists
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...paratists.html


2MaDalton, I think it somehow related with your hereditary memory. You are inadvertently support NAZI and trying to blame evil commies from Russia. That's actually a normal thing (you can not control your subconscious), so I have no questions to you. It's ok, man.
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:09 AM   #61
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deflecting, denying and now insulting... nice.

but no one answers what 2 dudes from Moscow do there

i could point to my post form page 1 again: https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=20185096&postcount=18

but obviously no one cares what i say when it doesn't fit the agenda

but feel free to insult me and call me Nazi as much as you want - besides your small colony of followers like Cherry, Evy and a couple of others, no one bothers anyways
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Old 08-11-2014, 10:02 AM   #62
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It is not really a very big question when everyone agrees that lots of countries are interfering in the Ukraine.

And to ask a question you yourself want to answer is well.. a bit childish.
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:22 AM   #63
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deflecting, denying and now insulting... nice.

but no one answers what 2 dudes from Moscow do there

i could point to my post form page 1 again: https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=20185096&postcount=18

but obviously no one cares what i say when it doesn't fit the agenda
MaDalton is right.
Why do the "Ukrainian" separatist leaders have Russian nationality and Russian passports?

It is obvious that some of the Russia-supporters here don't want to answer that simple question.

Because, let's be honest for a moment. They are not "separatists", but instead it is a regular Russian invasion. Just like the "anonymous" Russian soldiers in Crimea - the so-called "little green men".

Why is it so difficult for the Russians to simply say the truth? Instead they will always try to change the topic: "Look at the USA/America/Nato/EU/Santa Claus blah blah blah".
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:45 PM   #64
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MaDalton is right.
Why do the "Ukrainian" separatist leaders have Russian nationality and Russian passports?

It is obvious that some of the Russia-supporters here don't want to answer that simple question.

Because, let's be honest for a moment. They are not "separatists", but instead it is a regular Russian invasion. Just like the "anonymous" Russian soldiers in Crimea - the so-called "little green men".

Why is it so difficult for the Russians to simply say the truth? Instead they will always try to change the topic: "Look at the USA/America/Nato/EU/Santa Claus blah blah blah".
I think people have tried to answer that question. The question is do you think a foreign solder with his foreign passport and nationality could operate in a town without a degree of support from the local people?

Do you think that all of the Ukrainians support what has happened in Kiev?

I do not support the right wing capitalist government of Russia or the USA.
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:06 PM   #65
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deflecting, denying and now insulting... nice.

but no one answers what 2 dudes from Moscow do there

i could point to my post form page 1 again: https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=20185096&postcount=18

but obviously no one cares what i say when it doesn't fit the agenda

but feel free to insult me and call me Nazi as much as you want - besides your small colony of followers like Cherry, Evy and a couple of others, no one bothers anyways
Dude there are people from all over the world on both sides - solders of fortune, why are you so surprised? They are not official russian military forces , right?
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:14 PM   #66
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MaDalton is right.
Why do the "Ukrainian" separatist leaders have Russian nationality and Russian passports?

It is obvious that some of the Russia-supporters here don't want to answer that simple question.

Because, let's be honest for a moment. They are not "separatists", but instead it is a regular Russian invasion. Just like the "anonymous" Russian soldiers in Crimea - the so-called "little green men".

Why is it so difficult for the Russians to simply say the truth? Instead they will always try to change the topic: "Look at the USA/America/Nato/EU/Santa Claus blah blah blah".
Why it is do hard for USA to say - yes it is our hands behind Ukraine crisis from the beginning? And for dozen other civil wars. You are so naive.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:24 AM   #67
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Kiev, Gaza... Iraq.... this list just keeps getting bigger and bigger
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:39 AM   #68
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Kiev, Gaza... Iraq.... this list just keeps getting bigger and bigger
it's time to spin around the circle

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Old 08-12-2014, 11:07 AM   #69
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it's time to spin around the circle


I was expecting that they will detonate bomb at the end and become martyrs...but nothing happened.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:20 AM   #70
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MaDalton is right. Why do the "Ukrainian" separatist leaders have Russian nationality and Russian passports?
Perhaps because the ukraine (окраина) was a part of Russia for 100's of years and these guys just can't accept it as an "independant" country, at least because they were born in Russia and they are much older than the whole urkainian country? I do not support them but just trying to answer to your question. It's like Texas or Bavaria/Catalonia etc will declare its independence tomorrow.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:22 AM   #71
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Kiev, Gaza... Iraq.... this list just keeps getting bigger and bigger
I believe this picture says it all:

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Old 08-12-2014, 12:14 PM   #72
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CyberSEO should be ignored massively due to his supporting Russian invasion.
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:04 PM   #73
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I believe this picture says it all:

I believe this more accurate...







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Old 08-12-2014, 03:08 PM   #74
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...
As the resident communist I call for ALL foreign forces to stay out of the Ukraine and for all the oligarchs to be striped of the wealth and power they have stolen...
You call for it?

I'm sure your thoughts will get all the attention they deserve.
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:32 PM   #75
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Perhaps because the ukraine (окраина) was a part of Russia for 100's of years and these guys just can't accept it as an "independant" country, at least because they were born in Russia and they are much older than the whole urkainian country? I do not support them but just trying to answer to your question. It's like Texas or Bavaria/Catalonia etc will declare its independence tomorrow.
If Russia was against Ukraine's independence, then why did Russian Federation sign the Budapest Memorandum on December 5, 1994, and agree to respect that Ukraine is a sovereign country?

Quote:
The Budapest Memorandums

On December 5, 1994 the leaders of Ukraine, Russia, Britain and the United States signed a memorandum to remove nuclear weapons in Ukraine. They all signed six agreements for Ukraine, the agreements are:[2]
  1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine;

  2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations;

  3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind;

  4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of [3] an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used;

  5. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm, in the case of Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclearweapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a State in association or alliance with a nuclear-weapon State;

  6. Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear...ns_and_Ukraine

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Old 08-12-2014, 03:45 PM   #76
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If Russia was against Ukraine's independence, then why did Russian Federation sign the Budapest Memorandum on December 5, 1994, and agree to respect that Ukraine is a sovereign country?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear...ns_and_Ukraine
Because of american-puppet president Yeltsin?
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:53 PM   #77
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Like asking why did the West say they were not going to expand NATO eastward .
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:56 PM   #78
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Because of american-puppet president Yeltsin?
you forgot to add "drunk". (just what west liked and needed)

2:00

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Old 08-12-2014, 08:30 PM   #79
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If Russia was against Ukraine's independence, then why did Russian Federation sign the Budapest Memorandum on December 5, 1994, and agree to respect that Ukraine is a sovereign country?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear...ns_and_Ukraine
http://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkay...war-has-begun/

'Why CIA Director Brennan Visited Kiev: In Ukraine The Covert War Has Begun'

treaties go both ways.. yes?

http://www.msnbc.com/all/why-was-cia-chief-kiev

'CIA presence in Ukraine gives the wrong impression, senator warns'

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/...j-vs-congress/

'Spying, lying and torture: Obama, CIA, DOJ vs Congress'



get it tho. evil fucking red soviet russians. why even bother thinking about the rendition programs, the 'disappear you' programs, the 'kill americans without trial' programs.. these are scary things.

wayyyyyyyyyy easier pretending we live in the 80s and everything is a-ok and getting drafted really is a good thing cause we no longer even need to think for ourselves.

tell me

are you patriotic?

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Old 08-13-2014, 01:38 AM   #80
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If Russia was against Ukraine's independence, then why did Russian Federation sign the Budapest Memorandum on December 5, 1994, and agree to respect that Ukraine is a sovereign country?
So what? It was signet by Yelsin, not by Girkin or Boroday. When Yeltsin, Kuchma and Kravchuk simple divided the USSR to the independent countries (everyone of them wanted to be a "king" is his own land), they didn't ask all that millions of people if they want do live in different countries or not. Do you know what democracy is?
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Old 08-13-2014, 01:40 AM   #81
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So what? It was signet by Yelsin, not by Girkin or Boroday. When Yeltsin, Kuchma and Kravchuk simple divided the USSR to the independent countries (everyone of them wanted to be a "king" is his own land), they didn't ask all that millions of people if they want do live in different countries or not. Do you know what democracy is?
Democracy is when you got new violently organized government, to suddenly ban Russian language and go on TV and say that you will kill all Russians or Jews, right?
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Old 08-13-2014, 01:40 AM   #82
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Like asking why did the West say they were not going to expand NATO eastward .
Because Western leaders are pathological liars, while Gorbachev was too naive to understand that
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Old 08-13-2014, 01:44 AM   #83
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it's time to spin around the circle
And here we go

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Old 08-13-2014, 01:50 AM   #84
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Do you know what democracy is?
Putin sure doesn't.. or he probably does.. just doesn't care for it.

Instead he's more interested in feeding you idiot Russians lies through government controlled media and killing any of his rivals...and trying to steal other peoples lands under false pretenses...

Heil Hitler

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Old 08-13-2014, 01:56 AM   #85
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Putin sure doesn't..
Putin? Is this thread about him? Maybe the question was somehow related to him? Why Putin, why not Nelson Mandela, Bush Jr. or Pinochet? I didn't get what you wanted to say with your post. If you want to discuss Putin, just create another thread. Why do you try to off-top here?
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Old 08-13-2014, 01:56 AM   #86
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In fact the majority in Crimea and Western Ukraine do not want to live in same country with the Western so-called pro-EU neo-NAZIs
I guess that's why the hundreds of thousands of pro western Ukraines filling up the streets managed to kick out the Moscow planted President?

I've been to Ukraine and only a complete fool would want to live there under Moscow rule instead of Western rule.. same goes for that third world communist shit hole known as Russia... Russians are so drunk or so used to being abused that they can't see straight anymore.

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Old 08-13-2014, 02:04 AM   #87
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I guess that's why the hundreds of thousands of pro western Ukraines filling up the streets managed to kick out the Moscow planted President?
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Old 08-13-2014, 02:06 AM   #88
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You know.. the one who ran back to Russia after getting thrown out

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Old 08-13-2014, 02:11 AM   #89
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You know.. the one who ran back to Russia after getting throw out
No, I don't know. Tell us about him please. Because I always supposed to think that Yanukovich was democratically elected in the democratic Ukraine ruled by democratic president Youshenko and democratic prime minister Timoshenko. Do you try to tell us it wasn't so?
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Old 08-13-2014, 03:27 AM   #90
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http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/yanuko...-putin-puppet/
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Old 08-13-2014, 04:04 AM   #91
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what this means?

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Old 08-13-2014, 05:58 AM   #92
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkay...war-has-begun/

'Why CIA Director Brennan Visited Kiev: In Ukraine The Covert War Has Begun'

treaties go both ways.. yes?

http://www.msnbc.com/all/why-was-cia-chief-kiev

'CIA presence in Ukraine gives the wrong impression, senator warns'
In the treaties you refer to both USA and Russian Federation have agreed to respect Ukraine's borders and sovereignty and to provide assistance to Ukraine if someone is threatening the sovereignty of Ukraine.

The links you posted say that CIA has provided Ukraine with intelligence. That is correct and already agreed in the treaties, which Russia have signed.

Let's not forget another thing. At that same time Russian special forces Spetsnaz had already infiltrated Ukraine's territory and were doing missions against Ukraine. That is not allowed according to the agreement.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...e-ukraine.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...astern-ukraine
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Old 08-13-2014, 06:27 AM   #93
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Because of american-puppet president Yeltsin?
You mean the president who gave power to Putin?

We have all seen the drunk/drugged Yeltsin, but who's puppy was he? Let's not forget that Vladimir Putin was the head of KGB at that time. Master of poisoning (just look what Putin did to his critic Alexander Litvinenko)

Funny coincidence that Yeltsin, looking drunk, suddenly announces that Putin will take over as president. No elections, just an immediate change of president.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/4102107.stm

(As you see Putin was NOT initially elected democratically. He made a covert coup d'état.)
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Old 08-13-2014, 06:32 AM   #94
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In the treaties you refer to both USA and Russian Federation have agreed to respect Ukraine's borders and sovereignty and to provide assistance to Ukraine if someone is threatening the sovereignty of Ukraine.

The links you posted say that CIA has provided Ukraine with intelligence. That is correct and already agreed in the treaties, which Russia have signed.

Let's not forget another thing. At that same time Russian special forces Spetsnaz had already infiltrated Ukraine's territory and were doing missions against Ukraine. That is not allowed according to the agreement.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...e-ukraine.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...astern-ukraine
The two links you give DON'T give proof of Russian involvement, they talk about a campaign by the Ukrainian govt to convince the US of it.

The Guardian points out that people in the East support the rebels.

Remember the babies being thrown out of Kuwait's incubators -propaganda for the 1st Gulf war?
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Old 08-13-2014, 07:05 AM   #95
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In the treaties you refer to both USA and Russian Federation have agreed to respect Ukraine's borders and sovereignty and to provide assistance to Ukraine if someone is threatening the sovereignty of Ukraine.

The links you posted say that CIA has provided Ukraine with intelligence. That is correct and already agreed in the treaties, which Russia have signed.

Let's not forget another thing. At that same time Russian special forces Spetsnaz had already infiltrated Ukraine's territory and were doing missions against Ukraine. That is not allowed according to the agreement.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...e-ukraine.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...astern-ukraine
so, paying protestors to overthrow a democratically elected government is... respecting the sovereignty of the nation?

don't you find it curious that the original maidan got heavy news coverage, but the current maidan against our western-friendly government is all 'rioters' and has no coverage at all?

in fact, if we really get into this conversation, they are all 'undercover russian operatives'.

oddly coincidental.

but, you seem like a smart guy. once i find a western back media corp, you know, the ones owned by just 6 corporations over the entire western hemisphere, that discusses detailed evidence of our breaking international law, destabilizing democracy, and entirely incriminates us

ill let you know.

btw, has our western friendly government stopped their military actions so we can properly proceed with the mh17 investigations? i believe these 'evil russian rebels' were waiting to hear about a ceasefire in order to let the international bodies do their jobs.
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Old 08-13-2014, 07:11 AM   #96
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once again,for all those who missed (there is Ukrainian part)

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Old 08-13-2014, 08:56 AM   #97
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:39 AM   #98
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You mean the president who gave power to Putin?

We have all seen the drunk/drugged Yeltsin, but who's puppy was he? Let's not forget that Vladimir Putin was the head of KGB at that time. Master of poisoning (just look what Putin did to his critic Alexander Litvinenko)

Funny coincidence that Yeltsin, looking drunk, suddenly announces that Putin will take over as president. No elections, just an immediate change of president.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/4102107.stm

(As you see Putin was NOT initially elected democratically. He made a covert coup d'état.)
Yeltsin surrendered his presidency (yes he was fucking drunk puppet and I think had no choice, but to leave ). But dude open Wiki and read:
" Acting President on 31 December 1999 when Yeltsin resigned unexpectedly. Putin won the subsequent 2000 presidential election and was re-elected in 2004. "

He was elected as president by the constitution.
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:40 AM   #99
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He was elected as president by the constitution.
Sad but true
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:47 AM   #100
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Do you understand that your post above is a nonsense? At first you have stated that democracy is will of the majority. In fact the majority in Crimea and Western Ukraine do not want to live in same country with the Western so-called pro-EU neo-NAZIs like MrDiez (as you may note, he is a typical fascist). After that you say "fuck 'em". And where is the logic? Fuck the democracy? Here you go man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
He meant majority in the country no in every single region or city. Unless you want to give the right to separate to every region and city in Russia.
Last ones who tried were Chechens.
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