Rochard

Nukes aren't even on the table. They never really have been. Any nuclear warfare between the US and Russia would result in tens of millions dead instantly, and the rest of man kind desperately trying to survive. This is why we fight proxy wars.

I'm sorry, but Russia doesn't have a blue water navy - They are unable to protect power outside of their borders.

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theking

Are you another one that English is not your first language? "no more so" means that they are on our side just as much as they are on the Russian side. In fact they do far more business with us than they do the Russians...so if push comes to shove...they may very well drop any ties with Russia to retain our favor.

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dyna mo

Of course. It's called BRIC. If i recall, that alliance is one of many and many more in the works under the putin doctrine.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fully aware that russia has big aspirations to return to a dominate global power and a global military is key to that, according to putin.

And y'all also have some fancy new weapons systems with big plans for more, and nuke for nuke, as best i know it's even, except your nukes are aging, as i understand it. But thank Ronald Reagan for nuclear arms treaties.

Nevertheless, as it currently goes, your military is a regional one.

Rochard

Being as you might be right, some quick research tuns up that some "Russian military reform" in 2008. However, this seems to be concentrated on reducing troops numbers more than anything else.

Global firepower turns up some interesting numbers, but seems to me the US comes out ahead. US is rated number one at Global Firepower.

Again, Russia has no blue water navy and zero force projection. If Russia wanted to take Florida or any part of the US it would be nearly impossible, where as the US could have boots on the ground in Ukraine in twenty-four hours.

If you have any more info on the current state of Russian's military I would love to read about it.

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Rochard

But that's another issue altogether.... China - who also doesn't have a blue water navy - Could never go to the war with the US. Imagine what would happen if it did - all trade would instantly stop. The Chinese economy would instantly grind to a halt.

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dyna mo

China debt recently catapulted to 250% of gdp, all signs point to their economy about to hit a rough patch.

More on the putin doctrine
http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...-modernization

The new putin doctrine, update post crimea snatch back

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinio...ne/497316.html

aka123

Really. Russia has put big money to it's army for years, like 10 years or something, so talking about some budget restraints is from somewhere 90s.

aka123

What do you mean by worldwide? We are talking about a nation and it's military. And this Ukraine thing is quite near to Russia, so are European NATO forces. Regionally is enough. I would like to remind you that some of us don't live across Atlantic or Pacific.

And Russia has also rebuilt it's "world dominance" stuff, so there is now more that too.

_Richard_

BRIC is the economic bloc

the deal BRIC made is a bank 'between them'.. as my understanding goes 100bln.. another deal has been made between china/russia for 30 year gas deal

aka123

Too late for that. Where do you think your oil moneys have gone?

dyna mo

I just looked it up, its now BRICS, south Africa joined in,
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRICS

The tie :

This pursuit of a balance among world powers (the G-5 plus BRICS [Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa]) is Russia?s stated reason for seeking military capabilities, including a modernized nuclear triad deterrence, a powerful 21st-century ocean-faring navy, space forces, and a powerful land army.

aka123

No actually. More like there is a theat for war.

dyna mo

I mean the putin doctrine. Its no secret. Putin, even whats his face, medveddev before him both make it very clear they seek to balance the USA economically, military, sphere of persuasion, everything.

Putin has a long way to go, especially after the propaganda battle re: Ukraine.

Alesulx

Before we take this any further

worldtruth .tv/flight-mh17-false-flag-conspiracy-fully-exposed/[/url]
news.yahoo. com/russia-starts-reinforcing-naval-fleet-crimea-141108574.html[/url] (23 july article)

It`s all about the money. The freemasons can`t have enough, russia can`t stand that, and we all get cut in the middle. Greedy fuckers.
I am not russian.

aka123

Russia has modernized it's military with heavy hand, believe me. And this is not just about US, there other fucking countries out there too, you know. That blue water shit doesn't relieve much here in Europe. I don't live in USA. And Russia has blue water navy, small it may be.

aka123

Putin doesn't seem to be the only one with big ego. Russia want's to be global power, super power (or whatever) again. This is not just some USA thing. Right now Russia boasts with it's new powers in Ukraine as it did in Crimea.

Rochard

Russia does not have a blue water navy. A blue water navy means it can operate thousands of miles away from it's home port, which the Russian navy can no longer do. Recently they made a trip to Cuba, one ship and a supply ship, while the US is operating entire fleets at sea for months at a time half way around the world.

I understand there are "other countries" out there, but very few of them are considered a blue water navy. More or less it's the US, UK, and France.

No, Russia not having a blue water navy doesn't do much for Europe but... This isn't a thread about Europe and Russia, it's about the US and Russia....

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aka123

Russia has submarines and there are currently two helicopter carriers made in France (for Russia), besides the shit it already has. Thread might not be about Europe versus Russia, probably because of this previously mentioned ego thing, but downplaying the fact that Russia has and is modernizing it's military with heavy hand, is just some bullshit. It has put big money to it's military and grown power big time, no matter the viewpoint.

theking

Long story made short...Russia is not a military match to the U.S. and this also applies to China...and even Russia and China combined. Neither country can project its power...they are both regional powers. Both are working to change this but it will take them years more to attain being a global power...if either of them ever do.

The Soviet Union was a global power...but Russia is not.

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pimpmaster9000

no you have really thin skin, its embarassing to be on the same planet as you guys

it took you like 50 years to get over pearl harbor, you will need another 30-40 to get over 9/11 and the pressure cooker will be an issue 10 years from now

your skin <------------this is what is really thin

come on 9/11 made your country in to a joke your airports and embassies are an embarrassment to people with balls and penises

I am being serious: you are ridiculous you, literally, deserve ridicule

man our country lost like 200.000 people in the recent wars we hardly mention it

here is what you look like to us (seriously ask anybody)

FreeHugeMovies

Do you have any idea who was supplying Russia in WWII ????????

pimpmaster9000

long story short, they have the "OFF" switch to life on the planet, not much you pussies can do about it so you will huff and puff but you will always leave them alone like good little pussies

theking

Most people that are slow minded are easily amused...and you have repeatedly proven that is certainly the case with you. You are now dismissed...idiot.

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Alesulx

You said France

My humble opinion is that you will have Russia vs New World Order implicated countries. If a war breaks out (hopefully not) Japan will be one of the first who takes Russia on. And yes, the U.S has a "blue water navy". Russia is well known for it`s submarines, and how they "pop up out of the blue" . The really bad thing is that a country that doesn`t value so much his citizens (no offence, it`s not their fault) is starting to build an army. That means slaves that will work 24/7 with no human rights. LOTS of them.

theking

It is apparent to me that you are not the brightest log on the fire.

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bushwacker

You are arguing with (the king) someone who faked their own death on a message board, and pretends that he was once in the military. The dude is a nut job.

pimpmaster9000

no seriously you are so afraid as a nation that it is amusing to watch

one amp of bacteria wipes out all life on earth and if you think the russians do not have it you are a stupid mother fucker...

good luck with the navy and other useless crap nobody cares to use any more...now enjoy your scam army LOL used for installing corporate democracy in weak 3rd world countries but don't think for one second anybody outside the USA thinks you are warriors or brave or anything like that LOL

Rochard

I found that interesting as well. Seems France has an aircraft carrier, and has two mobile naval groups - that can operate as far away as the Indian ocean.

That is the way it seems to be going. But most of the former Soviet Bloc countries are either a part of NATO, trying to become a part of NATO, or unable to do anything but watch.

This doesn't take into your account the Middle Eastern countries who seem to want to make war on every one.

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Rochard

Afraid of what?

The last major war we were involved in - Iraq, one of the world's top ten armies at the time - was destroyed so quickly that we had to stop to resupply.

Afghanistan was nearly as quick.

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_Richard_

ahh, i missed that, thanks.

south africa is.. unsettling.. if they're able to finally get that place/rest of the continent developed, snort.

interesting that russia would be the one who is 'military' in that group. wonder if they'll just copy the set up the western world has apparently decided on

aka123

My answer has nothing to do with that afraid thing, but Iraq wasn't top ten armies at the time and neither was Afghanistan. These wars aren't valued for cent's worth regarding US military capabilities against proper army. Iraq was a test field for new weapons againts every way inferior army, that had so little fighting will, that it can't even be spoken about. And Afganistan was war against some rag and tag jihadists, but at least they had/ have fighting will.

That is how it goes.

Joshua G

ahhh fuggeduboudit.

_Richard_

well, little talked about is the fact china had just signed a deal with ukraine for grain.. non-gmo grain..

about a month after is when NATO took out that government.

aka123

NATO took out government? By the way, pretty much every grain in Europe is non-gmo. GMO stuff is mostly used for feeding cattle, if even for that.

dyna mo

FTR, i like my russian colleagues and acquaintances, had been planning my first trip to russia to meet face to face and take in all the rich history and such when all this Ukraine issue put the kaybash on that, hopefully temporarily.

_Richard_

france just banned it, germany in 08-09, and then we get into pandoras box.

Ukraine has never had it.. or never did

they do now.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...e-arrives.html

Alesulx

I`m really stuck on the middle Eastern Countries...Islam will win..but can`t figure out it`s purpose.Antichrist perhaps?

theking

When the US engaged the Iraq Army in '91...the 100 hour war...the Iraq Army was the fourth largest Army in the World.

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aka123

Yes, maybe regarding man power in arms. And even the man power wasn't that much: 650 000. I suppose that you know the Iran-Iraq war. Not much result in there for Iraq. Iraq had by 1991 obsolete army in modern starndards (that day's modern). And still, there were no fighting will. War on desert against sitting ducks with no morale. Lead by some dumb dictator and his cousins. That's your war.

_Richard_

yep, iraqis/saddam were mad when they lost their western support, decided to get even via kuwait.

theking

They had been supplied weapons...primarily by Russia...and had some of Russia's top of the line weapons of war. They were poorly trained and did not have the will to fight for Sadam. America forces had state of the art weapons of war and are very well trained.

The Russians are once again supplying Iraq with weapons of war.

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aka123

Like what top of the line weapons? They had T-72s and some Scud's, neither top of the line at the time. Not useless, but far from top of the line.

The fighting will is very important, and Iraq's poor fighting will isn't something that US can boast about. Like I said, fighting against a proper army is a totally different matter. For starters against an army that fights back.

Operation well done, no one denies that, but hardly a "trophy fight".

evy97

By my count the US has 5 decent allies: UK, Israel, Australia, South Korea, Canada



btw, F-35 total costs soar to $1.5trillion but 'can't turn, can't climb, can't run' - http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0PQ1I920140715

No normal nation would do such a thing.

What are you smoking? China’s foreign exchange reserves near $4trillion.

theking

You do not count very well...now do you?

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_Richard_

f-35 is far worse than that

we 'have 4 subs'. they don't work, never did, doubtfully ever will. also, the manpower lists.. vietnam came after ww2 and korea, and that didn't go well public opinion wise. since the 'available manpower' is 15 million, i must assume i myself am included in that, and the answer would be: ' ' i have seen how we treat vets after the 'honour' is done

evy97

I think better than you.

Rochard

Iraq had the fourth largest Army at the start of the Gulf War. From wikipedia:

We weren't scared in Iraq, bitch smacked them twice, and we weren't afraid in Afghanistan either.

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Alesulx

U.S.A and Russia will work hand in hand to pull China out to play. There will be no war between them. I think it`s a bluff. Is there something in the eastern countries that China really really wants?

theking

I suggest that you rethink and count again...sport.

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_Richard_

canada had the 3rd largest navy in the world after ww2, and 4th largest airforce.

doesn't mean shit now, didn't mean shit then either.