AdultKing

This is a question for every company that runs a live webcam network.

Are you concerned about the ripping and republishing of performer shows ?

Is IP an issue you guys tackle already or have you not taken action ?

We're uncovering literally tens of thousands of files on file lockers where pirates are monetizing the download of these live video rips.

Mutt

I know MFC is pretty vigilant, their stuff is all over the forums.

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AdultKing

Who looks after MFC, we've found a lot of stuff on file lockers that we would just love to get rid of.

Mutt

Not sure, possibly Degban.

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adultmobile

I think each cam site got a little different policy and enforcement also varies.

Specifically our sites ( http://chatgf.com and http://tubecamgirl.com ) , got terms of service and agreement signe dby models, stateing: THE PERFORMER RETAINS RIGHTS OVER THE OWN LIVE FEED - WE THE CAM SITE, ONLY GET A RIGHT TO RE-TRASMIT IT LIVE ONE TIME, MUCH SAME AS YOUR INTERNET PROVIDER OR PHONE COMPANY; and accordingly, we do not provide recorded shows to customers to re-play, it is only live; this qualifies our cam company much same as an internet service provider or a proxy server, not like a publisher or copyright holder.

Accordingly, should each model, as the sole owner of her video feed recordings rights, submit a DMCA to infringing sites. Really, if some model contact us crying about her sex show screenshots being freely visible in russia, colombia by local neighbours, friends and relatives (which is what really matters to the models, not the money or piracy issue), we tell how to contact the sites or assist contacting in her behalf, as a courtesy and/or as a matter of principle.

Most other cam sites (except perhaps chatroulettes etc.) own the rights and not the models - anyway really the models care not to be seen naked in own country and relatives, it is not properly a "piracy" issue but a personal exposing issue.

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AdultKing

What if we can provide a low cost, hassle free way for performers to get their stuff pulled down from everywhere ? Would that interest cam performers ?

JesseQuinn

I think there'd be a lot of interest in a service that would provide that- I'm not sure what chicas would actually be willing to pay for it though

another factor would be whether your system finds new file lockers/new pirated cam collections as they arise or simply handles the file lockers/content that chicas find themselves. If it's primarily that latter then I suspect interest would be much lower, as most chicas handle their own DMCAs despite the ownership issue raised by adultmobile

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seeandsee

You are doing great job, but without big money to fight this you will just tap on start every time because new lockers will jump in

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AdultKing

We can match and detect using a number of factors, so there'd be no work on behalf of the performer other than telling us their performer name(s) and the cam sites they work on.

Don't underestimate our capability, we typically know about a new file locker within 24 hours of it appearing, usually within a few hours and we're really turning up the heat at the moment.

JesseQuinn

if that's the case then yeah, I could def see some interest. again I'm not sure how many would actually move from 'interest' to actually paying for it but some def would.

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adultmobile

Cam girls are financially one-way, they can receive money, but never send

Seriously, it could be studios (if not models) to fund small amounts for a service that effectively shuts down the content of own models, after a model found out and considering quitting camming (and so studio) due to that. Also cam sites, perhaps, it could contribute, but again mostly if specific cam girls will complain about specific files to take down. Also to be noted where most cam sites advertise: the same forums with screen captures

Cynically, the issue of cam captures becomes important only when the model finds her own capture or get aware of it. So a scareware campaign where you collect all the captures, identify models, and contact models showing them: "look this is you?", it would urge them to ask you to cancel such files. In fact, I know for sure that there are russian forums who are asking money (roubles...) to photo models and cam models to remove their sections in the site: the interesting part of the blackmail, it is that they write the real full name of the models, not just the stage name.

An especially bad true story is the one of an ukrainian girl who found clear color pictures of her naked playing with toys, along with her real name, printed on a4 papers, glued with scotch on her own flat door, and all along her neughbourhood across other flats, stairs, streets. This is an extreme case of the result of guys taking screenshots and posting in forums accessible from (otherwise banned) countries where the model is from.

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AdultKing

Ironically, tonight in a quick scan I have found BongaCams shows heavily pirated.

"18647 files found during this scan"

This is on ONE file locker. From our own intelligence we know that this file locker gets an average of $2.92 per month per download when you take into account most downloaders don't buy file locker memberships.

This means that these files could earn this file locker $54,449.24 per month

faxxaff

Thanks or this information. I might think about starting a file locker just for cam shows :-)

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SplatterMaster

How would a cam site know if it was their content? Could be the same model on another site.

AdultKing

Wouldn't be the brightest idea because .... well you'll just have to see what's coming to the current batch of rogue file lockers.

faxxaff

Just because somebody opens a file locker for cams doesn't mean it's anything rogue or illegal. Think before you bark.

But even for rogue pirates, there is very little chance a performer from Russia, China, Dominican Republic or elsewhere will be taking any action. Smart pirates could just use those that have left the biz 5 or 10 years ago. Almost zero chance of anybody filing a valid complaint.

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AdultKing

You're not thinking this through, think VISA/MC processing regulations. No payment processing means no file locker.

faxxaff

.... many other ways to monetize.

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AdultKing

Cheering on the pirates ?

American Psycho

only the top very small percentage of cam models would be interested and able to pay or a service and even those probably would not take action.

you have to go after the camsites 2 take that initiative no way a model will .... or any significant number of models at least

faxxaff

Not at all. But hey: Google and Amazon are pirates .... so in some way it is a legitimate business model. Just have to be creative.

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AdultKing

Is Marie a male name, or do you like seeing polish hookers because you're a lesbian ?

faxxaff

Never seen a Polish hooker. They are all from Ukraine.

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adultmobile

Probably most the readers are really thinking this.

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AdultKing

By the time this finishes, this will be a very big web page.

http://copycontrol.org/cam-piracy/

I'll sort out pagination tomorrow.

BareBacked

is there a way to see which file lockers are sharing my movies?

I really do not know anything how they work. Do people post links to them on forums?
How so they get traffic?

I should have looked at this sooner I know ...

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AdultKing

We have significant crawling infrastructure that can find any content on file lockers within an hour of it appearing on any of the more than 40,000 piracy source sites we crawl. We can also find it on tubes, direct download and torrent sites as well.

If you need some help contact me http://copycontrol.org/contact-us

JesseQuinn

yeah, I agree with you. I don't think most cam sites really care about cam show pirating, and I would doubt it actually costs the sites much cash. Live cam isn't the same as recorded porn, you can't 'pirate' the human interaction so many guys seek.

uggh, what an epic douchebag

I suspect some mid range chicas would be interested in a service like this too, but I generally agree with ya that there would prob be far more interest than actual sign-ups to a service.

if you're trying to target cam chicas interested in joining your service you'll prob want to focus on the main sites high-earner use (I wouldn't consider Bongacams to be one of em) as those chicas would be most able to afford a service.

I hope you follow through on this and continue to post info about filelockers that host pirated cam shows publicly. That's great info for chicas to have access to in sending their own DMCAs, and while you wouldn't necessarily be monetizing those page views it could help you increase awareness of your site and service (and maybe get you more sign-ups down the line if chicas see that it's actually effective).

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BareBacked

Thanks. Is there a way to tell which lockers are getting downloads and where the links are from?

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2MuchMark

We have our own version of this. Customers can watch reruns of previous chat shows for any price the site owner wants to charge, and the chat model is paid for that rerun.

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AdultKing

Yes, we cross reference all of that.

Zeiss

I know someone, who will be interested. Hit me up. I also know who uploads her stuff, and he may be beaten to death any time soon, if you don't hit me up. Lucky him that you are around... Not kidding.

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AdultKing

I am building a portal especially for cam performers at the moment which will give them the ability to sign up, register their performer names and cam networks and then digitally sign an agreement for us to remove their content and then we'll nuke everything of theirs we find.

I'll be posting in the next few days about how to access this.

This service will be provided free provided that the Cam Model becomes an associate member of Adult IP, which will also be announced in coming days.

Drake

Have no idea how many performers would be interested but it would seem like a lifesaver for those that want their stuff taken down.

AdultKing

I have my team building a portal right now, which should be up in days. There's so much webcam piracy on file lockers that it's a win - win situation. We get more leverage with shutting down payment processing and the performer gets their content removed.

adultmobile

I suggest that you provide also a "studio registration" type of account (which will be master to a number of model accounts, grouped), since I think rather than cam girls directly, mostly it will be studios the few ones who may be able and willing to pay anything or just follow boureaucracy steps. Also you may consider supporting russian language too, that would add audience. Spanish for colombians also may help. Romanians can speak English more frequently so may be not strictly necessary.

About cam sites, what we could do it is to put a link from the model/studio pages to your portal, visible to everyone when they login. Could be like: "go there if you want to remove your naked videos from tubes and forums". If the big sites will link your portal from models pages, that may make your portal a success, while if you get not linked, you surely can't expect many cam girls/studios to every find out your portal it exists... most do not read gfy of course, but not even read the specific cam forums: most just login to cam sites and know or believe whatever in the cam site help page.

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BareBacked

Can I see a report of the movies with most views/ downloads?

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Major (Tom)

IMO you should be more concerned with the piracy cam studios allow to promote their cams.
Duke

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adultmobile

I wrote a comprehensive post about cam sites caring to cam show piracy here:

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=20149497&postcount=64

It may not represent what officially other cam sites may declare, but I am confident no one can really provide evidence for the contrary

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JesseQuinn

so associate member status on Adult IP is $250? you may have an issue getting sign-ups with that sort of 'free with a paid membership' structure; cam chicas are pretty used to fly-by-night companies coming along with the next new big idea, only to crash and burn pretty quickly. Honestly you'd prob generate more sign-ups with a pay-as-you-go system rather than an upfront yearly membership at that price.

would you consider providing the service at the $25 a year 'friend of the association' level? I ask because the chicas most affected by piracy are those who are trying to maintain their privacy. They may be young and still live at home/in uni, or still have a day job that isn't all that compatible with camming. In that way, the chicas most negatively impacted by piracy are those with the most to lose because they haven't yet started to bank at the level where they can just tell everyone to go pound sand if they're outed and get hassled about it. $250 up front may be prohibitive to some of those chicas, particularly when as a group we're pretty wary of new services, having been burned so often by crash and burn operations with big promises and no follow-through.

^^^I agree with you, and when it comes to target audience I think what you wrote corresponds to what I'm saying about who really cares about/gets hurt by pirated material.

For top chicas making top dollar, a lot don't give a fuck. It doesn't hurt income, many do often perceive it as quite the opposite. Pirated fetish videos do hurt income but those tend to shared on pretty niche fetish forums so I doubt that sort of theft would be within the purview of this project?.

The most serious negative outcomes associated with piracy are chicas being outed and that has more to do with ability to protect oneself from invasions of privacy and harassment than it does with negative financial impact. Sure, beyond privacy issues some chicas take down material just on principle (and particularly when a unflattering screencap is out there somewhere) but I doubt many chicas would give $250 to a new-to-them company based on principle or vanity.

^^great idea, and along with a lower cost would go a long way to helping some of the more vulnerable performers protect themselves and their privacy.

@AdultKing I get that your projects are focused on the filelocker ecosystem (and no criticism here, props for pursuing your goals in that regard). That's no doubt your top priority with this new project, but I would hope you would design it in such a way that it focuses on the needs and circumstances of chicas most negatively impacted by webcam piracy. A $250 per year fee may be a significant barrier for many of the chicas who stand to benefit the most from what you could offer them.

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AdultKing

[QUOTE=JesseQuinn;20149561]so associate member status on Adult IP is $250? you may have an issue getting sign-ups with that sort of 'free with a paid membership' structure; cam chicas are pretty used to fly-by-night companies coming along with the next new big idea, only to crash and burn pretty quickly. Honestly you'd prob generate more sign-ups with a pay-as-you-go system rather than an upfront yearly membership at that price.
[QUOTE]

The management committee is considering the introduction of a performer "associate membership", however this needs to discussed at the next meeting.

PornDiscounts-V

I tried promoting Chaturbate and did decent with them considering their $1 free signup is low and 10% revshare almost never happens. But I kept on running into a problem where they sent me DMCA notices like a motherfucker and I am pushing the girls in their shows and making sales for them.

Not to mention there would be other times where I snapped a screenshot on BongaCams and am using a BongaCams code for linking, but getting Chaturbate DMCA notices when the snapshot is clearly watermarked with BongaCams.

I went back to getting $200+ PPS and 20% REVS from real cam programs where that shit never happens to me.

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Zeiss

Good! Hope I hear about it.

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Adult Webmasters Guides

adultmobile

So, it looks like at least chaturbate it is caring about pirated video captures. Even those not captured on chaturbate?!

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Zeiss

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Adult Webmasters Guides

punker barbie

Sorry to hear. Can you send me your username? Sometimes models dont know they have to opt out of Network Sites to not be included in affiliate promotion.

Shirley At Chaturbate dot com

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AdultKing

We have found so many My Free Cams video rips on UltraMegaBit.com that we're having difficulty parsing them for our evidence file.

http://stopfilelockers.com/umb-live/...bcam-rips.html

warning - this is a large web page

adultmobile

Let me help you, do a search for "streamate", "imlive", "livejasmin" ?

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AdultKing

We're doing that crawl now, but we have many jobs for crawling and they take time to run.