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mineistaken 05-10-2014 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20082819)
Doesn't he think things through?
My post from above applies :winkwink:

Just Alex 05-10-2014 05:28 PM
So many clueless fucks here. Illegals voting. Right,as if they got nothing better to do than risk being deported.

kane 05-10-2014 09:41 PM
Allow me to add a little reality to this discussion. My mom would be a perfect example of someone affected by a voter ID law.

My mom is 74 years old. 2 years ago she moved into an assisted living center. About 5 years ago her drivers license expired. It had been a few years since she had driven anyway so she had no intention of driving again, but she needed an ID. The problem was that she was in a nursing home with some major health issues at the time so it was impossible for me to get her to the DMV to get a state issued ID card. I called the DMV and they happily sent her an application for a non-photo ID. She filled it out, sent it back and now has a state ID without a picture on it.

With a non-picture ID she has gotten on medicare and medicaid and gotten a new social security card because the one she had for most of her life had her name spelled wrong on it. She has pretty much gone about her life without any problems whats so ever. However, if she had to get a photo ID it would cost her.

Here's why. She was born in 1940 at home. She is unsure if her birth certificate (which she no longer has a copy of) is in Illinois or Florida. We could look online and eventually find out. At best she would likely have to pay to get a copy of her birth certificate then pay to get a photo ID in our state. Total cost would likely be around $75-$100 depending on the cost of the birth certificate and anything else she may need.

In my mom's case my brother and I would pay for it for her. However, there are a lot of people that live where she lives who don't have family to help them out. They end up with about $50-$75 in extra money each month after their care is paid for. For someone like that, this could be a major burden.

All of the studies done show that voter fraud is almost non-existent, yet the republican party continues to work to fix a problem that isn't broken in an effort to hopefully keep a few more people from the polls that might vote against them.

Robbie 05-10-2014 11:04 PM
kane, in your mother's case...would she be going to the polls to vote on election day? It's sounds as if she isn't able to get around much.

That's the kind of example I was talking about...how many people percentage-wise of legal adult age AND of sound mind and body (physically able and willing to leave a nursing home to go stand in line to vote) are there WITHOUT any kind of ID?

And again...as far as "studies" showing that voter fraud is almost non-existent...how would a "study" be able to ascertain that? That's like saying there was no investor fraud...UNTIL they caught Bernie Madoff and realized he had been doing it all along.

And it's a very, very famous fact that in the city of Chicago...the Democrat Party machine was well known for having dead people vote in droves to keep Mayor Daley in power for decades.

And that was just ONE political machine in ONE city.

I'm not trying to say that voter fraud is running rampant, but since a person has to show ID for everything in life...shouldn't they be required to show ID for their most important civic duty as a citizen?

Take the politics out of it for a second...don't YOU think that a person should show their ID to vote?

And if there is some mitigating circumstance, as in the case of your mom...then that should be taken into account.

astronaut x 05-10-2014 11:18 PM
Its not, stfu

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude 05-10-2014 11:22 PM
http://upload.democraticunderground....e-vote-huh.jpg



Quote:
One key question in the battle over the legality of voter identification laws is whether such laws are necessary to prevent voter fraud and whether they suppress a lot of votes from eligible voters.

Though the answer to the second question remains in considerable dispute, after Tuesday?s federal court decision striking down Wisconsin?s voter ID law, it is time for voter ID supporters to throw in the towel and admit state voter ID laws don?t prevent the kind of fraud they are supposedly targeted for.

Federal Judge Lynn Adelman looked at the evidence from Wisconsin and reached a conclusion unsurprising to those of us who study how elections are run. ?Virtually no voter impersonation occurs in Wisconsin,? Adelman wrote, ?and it is exceedingly unlikely that voter impersonation will become a problem in Wisconsin in the foreseeable future.?

Wisconsin is not alone in lacking such evidence.

When the United States Supreme Court considered the constitutionality of Indiana?s voter ID law in 2008, the state conceded there was no evidence, ever, of impersonation fraud in the entire state.

This is not surprising. Voter impersonation fraud is an exceedingly dumb way to try to steal an election. Someone would have to send people into polling places claiming to be others ? either dead voters who have not been removed from the rolls, or people who have not yet shown up to vote, or fictitious people pre-registered and getting by any identification requirements when registering. Then the fraudster would have to hope that these imposters vote the way they were paid to. The fraudster would have to do this in large enough numbers to affect the outcome of an election, while avoiding detection of this conspiracy.

A far smarter way to steal an election is through the sale of absentee ballots. That transaction can be done in private. The person buying the ballots can buy blank ones from cheating voters, then cast the votes herself. These ballots can be cast simply by mailing them.

In researching my book The Voting Wars, I could not find one case since at least 1980 in which voter impersonation fraud was used to arguably steal an election.

True, Hans von Spakovsky made allegations about such events happening in the 1970s in Brooklyn. But his claims this is emblematic of a current problem have been debunked. Nor have other members of the ?fraudulent fraud squad? produced credible evidence of any recent problem with such fraud tricking election officials.

In contrast, it is easy to find cases throughout the country every year of fraud or attempted fraud with absentee ballots. Voter ID laws do nothing to prevent absentee ballot fraud.

President Barack Obama recently gave a speech saying voter fraud is rare. He discussed a News21 study that found only 10 reported prosecutions for impersonation fraud across the country from 2000 to 2012. Robert Popper, a Judicial Watch attorney, argued this week in a Wall Street Journal op-ed article that the News21 report was unreliable because, among other reasons, the data were incomplete.

Popper misses the forest for the trees, however. No doubt, 10 cases of impersonation undercounts the total number of instances of such fraud. But what?s crucial are the comparative statistics. In the same 2000 to 2012 period, the News21 study found 491 absentee ballot prosecutions. And though the 10 cases of impersonation fraud all appeared unrelated and not part of any larger plot to steal an election, some of the absentee prosecutions indeed involved attempts to alter election outcomes.

Relative to absentee ballot fraud, impersonation fraud is a blip on the radar. In the Supreme Court?s case about Indiana?s law, Justice John Paul Stevens had to reach back to Boss Tweed in 1868 New York and a one possible case of impersonation fraud in 2004 in Washington state to bolster the argument that there is still potential for such fraud that could justify state ID laws.

At some point, honest observers just have to admit that impersonation fraud is not a serious problem in the United States. Many suspect (as do I) that these laws ? passed almost exclusively by Republican state legislatures ? are part of an attempt to make it harder to cast a ballot for voters who skew Democratic.

Judge Richard Posner, of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit, recently conceded he may have erred when he wrote an opinion upholding Indiana?s voter ID law. ?I plead guilty,? Posner wrote, ?to having written the majority opinion (affirmed by the Supreme Court) upholding Indiana?s requirement that prospective voters prove their identity with a photo ID ? a law now widely regarded as a means of voter suppression rather than fraud prevention.?

For this reason, many supporters of state voter identification laws have now shifted tactics to argue that the laws are necessary to promote voter confidence in the electoral process. If voters are worried their votes will be stolen, their argument goes, maybe they won?t vote.

Adelman, who wrote the Wisconsin case, did not think much of that argument either. He noted academic studies show no relationship between voter confidence and the presence or absence of an ID law. In addition, the judge noted it is the fear-mongering over such laws that might matter the most: ?Perhaps the reason why photo ID requirements have no effect on confidence or trust in the electoral process is that such laws undermine the public?s confidence in the electoral process as much as they promote it.?

Now it is another question whether voter ID laws actually suppress as many votes as Democrats claim. I have been skeptical of such claims in the past, because in many instances challengers to voter identification laws have not been able to produce eligible voters who lack the necessary identification and could not easily get it.

But as states have further restricted the types of identification required to cast a ballot, these voters have been far easier to find.

In the Wisconsin case, the judge looked closely at the evidence and determined that up to 300,000 people lacked the identification demanded ? and many of them would have trouble getting it.

Similarly, a state court judge in Pennsylvania recently determined that 320,000 to 400,000 people in that state lacked the requisite ID and the state was not well prepared to get ?free? IDs into the hands of everyone who wanted it.
http://vegasjessie.files.wordpress.c...708-132338.jpg

http://ametia.files.wordpress.com/20...mwcmaixu5f.jpg

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/Y4jbcOKrzYA/0.jpg

"I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality... I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word."

- Martin Luther King, Jr.

:stoned

ADG

2MuchMark 05-11-2014 12:16 AM
Here you go, Grape Soda:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...e-poor/254572/

kane 05-11-2014 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20082972)
kane, in your mother's case...would she be going to the polls to vote on election day? It's sounds as if she isn't able to get around much.

That's the kind of example I was talking about...how many people percentage-wise of legal adult age AND of sound mind and body (physically able and willing to leave a nursing home to go stand in line to vote) are there WITHOUT any kind of ID?

And again...as far as "studies" showing that voter fraud is almost non-existent...how would a "study" be able to ascertain that? That's like saying there was no investor fraud...UNTIL they caught Bernie Madoff and realized he had been doing it all along.

And it's a very, very famous fact that in the city of Chicago...the Democrat Party machine was well known for having dead people vote in droves to keep Mayor Daley in power for decades.

And that was just ONE political machine in ONE city.

I'm not trying to say that voter fraud is running rampant, but since a person has to show ID for everything in life...shouldn't they be required to show ID for their most important civic duty as a citizen?

Take the politics out of it for a second...don't YOU think that a person should show their ID to vote?

And if there is some mitigating circumstance, as in the case of your mom...then that should be taken into account.
In Oregon we vote by mail so a voter ID law wouldn't really work, because the ballot is mailed to you and you mail it back or drop it at a voter box. So she has and will vote. If she had to go to a poll she might still go. She has a wheelchair now so she can get around a little better and if not she would do an absentee ballot.

As for others, I personally can't see how the average, typical person can survive without an ID. As you have pointed out, it is needed for everything these days especially with ID theft such a big problem, but clearly there are a lot of people without. Now that I think about it my soon to be 21 year old nephew doesn't have a valid photo ID. He has been arrested a handful times and always has extra troubles because he has no ID.

As for voter fraud. I guess we can't really know the exact number of fraudulent votes cast. I am basing my opinion on those actually charged with it. According to this ABC news article between 2002-2005 there were 197 million votes cast for federal candidates and only 40 people indicted on actual voter fraud. The state of Texas has convicted 51 people of voter fraud in the last 10 years.

I'm sure there are more that do it and get away with it, but to me it seems like a pretty small problem. I would rather they focus their efforts on curbing the fraud that is committed by the people that run the elections in an effort to swing elections one way or the other. Not to mention how many of the voter ID laws also include reducing the number of days people can vote and how they can vote. Most of them are simply voter suppression laws.

arock10 05-11-2014 06:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20082806)
What facts? What the fuck are you talking about.

That's why I hate talking to some of you. YOU are repeating made-up shit you hear or read and stating it as "fact"

Well why don't you tell me your facts with this question:
How many legitimate adult citizens in the United States do NOT have any kind of ID.

Tell me.

I'll be waiting for you facts.

Fucking dumbest shit I've ever head someone say to me.
The percentage of citizens without IDs is far greater then the percentage of in person voter fraud. There are plenty of facts already in this thread about how very little in person voter fraud there is.
So clearly it's a non issue, since for statistical purposes there is no in person voter fraud. So why do republican legislatures keep bringing it up? Seems pretty fucking obvious.

Grapesoda 05-11-2014 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kane (Post 20082950)
Allow me to add a little reality to this discussion. My mom would be a perfect example of someone affected by a voter ID law.

My mom is 74 years old. 2 years ago she moved into an assisted living center. About 5 years ago her drivers license expired. It had been a few years since she had driven anyway so she had no intention of driving again, but she needed an ID. The problem was that she was in a nursing home with some major health issues at the time so it was impossible for me to get her to the DMV to get a state issued ID card. I called the DMV and they happily sent her an application for a non-photo ID. She filled it out, sent it back and now has a state ID without a picture on it.

With a non-picture ID she has gotten on medicare and medicaid and gotten a new social security card because the one she had for most of her life had her name spelled wrong on it. She has pretty much gone about her life without any problems whats so ever. However, if she had to get a photo ID it would cost her.

Here's why. She was born in 1940 at home. She is unsure if her birth certificate (which she no longer has a copy of) is in Illinois or Florida. We could look online and eventually find out. At best she would likely have to pay to get a copy of her birth certificate then pay to get a photo ID in our state. Total cost would likely be around $75-$100 depending on the cost of the birth certificate and anything else she may need.

In my mom's case my brother and I would pay for it for her. However, there are a lot of people that live where she lives who don't have family to help them out. They end up with about $50-$75 in extra money each month after their care is paid for. For someone like that, this could be a major burden.

All of the studies done show that voter fraud is almost non-existent, yet the republican party continues to work to fix a problem that isn't broken in an effort to hopefully keep a few more people from the polls that might vote against them.
studies show that NO voter fraud has been prosecuted which is very different than studies done show that voter fraud is almost non-existent.... there is voter fraud all the time I'm sure.... saying there is NO voter fraud is like saying 'no one breaks the law' with a straight face and expecting everyone to believe it.... when obama started his run for pres, his senate seat went up for sale... (unless you think that is a teaparty plot as well) ... and yet you insist there is not voter fraud ? if there is no fraud, why is there such a determined effort to stop the ID law.... that what you should ask yourself :2 cents:

Grapesoda 05-11-2014 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kane (Post 20083023)
In Oregon we vote by mail so a voter ID law wouldn't really work, because the ballot is mailed to you and you mail it back or drop it at a voter box. So she has and will vote. If she had to go to a poll she might still go. She has a wheelchair now so she can get around a little better and if not she would do an absentee ballot.

As for others, I personally can't see how the average, typical person can survive without an ID. As you have pointed out, it is needed for everything these days especially with ID theft such a big problem, but clearly there are a lot of people without. Now that I think about it my soon to be 21 year old nephew doesn't have a valid photo ID. He has been arrested a handful times and always has extra troubles because he has no ID.
Quote:
he has plenty of identification now doesn't he :1orglaugh
As for voter fraud. I guess we can't really know the exact number of fraudulent votes cast. I am basing my opinion on those actually charged with it. According to this ABC news article between 2002-2005 there were 197 million votes cast for federal candidates and only 40 people indicted on actual voter fraud. The state of Texas has convicted 51 people of voter fraud in the last 10 years.

Quote:
but how many votes did the 40 people organize? that's the real question isn't it.... or do you actually believe they prosecuted a guy for voting twice? a guy smuggles 5 tons of coke into the US and it's 1 drug runner... :2 cents:

Quote:
I'm sure there are more that do it and get away with it, but to me it seems like a pretty small problem. I would rather they focus their efforts on curbing the fraud that is committed by the people that run the elections in an effort to swing elections one way or the other. Not to mention how many of the voter ID laws also include reducing the number of days people can vote and how they can vote. Most of them are simply voter suppression laws.

I wouldn't mind some effort put into stopping welfare and medicade cheats

arock10 05-11-2014 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 20083170)
studies show that NO voter fraud has been prosecuted which is very different than studies done show that voter fraud is almost non-existent.... there is voter fraud all the time I'm sure.... saying there is NO voter fraud is like saying 'no one breaks the law' with a straight face and expecting everyone to believe it.... when obama started his run for pres, his senate seat went up for sale... (unless you think that is a teaparty plot as well) ... and yet you insist there is not voter fraud ? if there is no fraud, why is there such a determined effort to stop the ID law.... that what you should ask yourself :2 cents:
Sure there is voter fraud, just not IN person voter fraud. I doubt asking for rod blagojevich's id would've helped

Grapesoda 05-11-2014 07:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arock10 (Post 20083154)
The percentage of citizens without IDs is far greater then the percentage of in person voter fraud. There are plenty of facts already in this thread about how very little in person voter fraud there is.
So clearly it's a non issue, since for statistical purposes there is no in person voter fraud. So why do republican legislatures keep bringing it up? Seems pretty fucking obvious.
the issue with what you say is, your severally bigoted, just like Larry and you will consistently ignore or disbelieve any facts that disagree with your world view. the problems arising from this are you ASUME that everyone else is running the same agenda... causing you to turn even deeper into your 'closed loop worldview'.... think 'the earth is flat' see what I mean?

the only reason voter fraud is a 'non issue' is because you have made the 'grand pronouncement' and demand that we all except this as a fact.

we don't. we expect the same from every person regardless of color or income... get identification.... we trust that minorities are able to do this.

you don't, you except that minorities are not able to function at a high enough level in modern society to perform such a simple task, hence it's 'unfair' to ask that they do. you claim we are persecuting minorities for expecting that minorities can function at societal 'norms' ... who's the racist here again?

mopek1 05-11-2014 07:24 AM
Republicans wouldn't be so interested in this if they didn't think it would give them an advantage in some way.

Republicans are not doing it to curb voter fraud. It's to gain an advantage.

Dems are using race to 'keep' their advantage.

Neither party cares about anyone really.

Grapesoda 05-11-2014 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mopek1 (Post 20083198)
Republicans wouldn't be so interested in this if they didn't think it would give them an advantage in some way.

Republicans are not doing it to curb voter fraud. It's to gain an advantage.

Dems are using race to 'keep' their advantage.

Neither party cares about anyone really.
yes in fact my thought is 'politics' is a mental illness :2 cents:

crockett 05-11-2014 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mopek1 (Post 20083198)
Republicans wouldn't be so interested in this if they didn't think it would give them an advantage in some way.

Republicans are not doing it to curb voter fraud. It's to gain an advantage.

Dems are using race to 'keep' their advantage.

Neither party cares about anyone really.
It's kind of like how Republicans had zero interest when it was shown that the electronic voting machines were insecure and that you can actually manually change the vote count the machine give out by inserting a corrupted card.

The Republicans didn't seem to think that was much of an issue..

I'm all for voting reforms but again as I mentioned before unless you go all the way with a actual ID for voting that replaces the actual voters card, then it's not solving anything. It's just another case of Republicans bitching and moaning and not doing anything that really matters.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude 05-11-2014 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 20083214)

yes in fact my thought is 'politics' is a mental illness :2 cents:
I would agree that your politics reflect a degree of mental illness. :winkwink:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WigxWmT65J...tical+0062.jpg





Rapidly changing demographics are going to soon wipe away any short-term advantage that the rightwing voter suppression efforts may have, leaving the GOP with an increasingly smaller base as it continues to alienate large sectors of society.

:stoned

ADG

Jel 05-11-2014 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mopek1 (Post 20083198)
Republicans wouldn't be so interested in this if they didn't think it would give them an advantage in some way.

Republicans are not doing it to curb voter fraud. It's to gain an advantage.

Dems are using race to 'keep' their advantage.

Neither party cares about anyone really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 20083214)
yes in fact my thought is 'politics' is a mental illness :2 cents:
:thumbsup

Jel 05-11-2014 08:55 AM
voting = a way for the politicians (who all want the same thing - which is to either get, or stay in power) to fool the public into thinking that their vote has any kind of say whatsoever in how the public are treated. Rather than 100% of people up in arms at the jokers that run our countries, the 'voting' system always ensures there are factions within the public who bicker in pubs, bars, on message boards, and wherever else, ensuring that both the 'left' and the 'right' side always have someone on their 'side'.

Genius, really.

Just Alex 05-11-2014 09:30 AM
Oh, now this shit is officially racist. 25% of blacks?
Im going to wait for brassmonkey and blackmonsters confirmation once they are done calling ex-girlfriends with Mothers Day greetings.

http://vegasjessie.files.wordpress.c...708-132338.jpg

Grapesoda 05-11-2014 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Alex (Post 20083295)
Oh, now this shit is officially racist. 25% of blacks?
Im going to wait for brassmonkey and blackmonsters confirmation once they are done calling ex-girlfriends with Mothers Day greetings.

http://vegasjessie.files.wordpress.c...708-132338.jpg
that's pretty interesting.... your thought is that if a person can't function up to a societal norm it's racist?

Grapesoda 05-11-2014 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude (Post 20083247)
I would agree that your politics reflect a degree of mental illness. :winkwink:

[

Rapidly changing demographics are going to soon wipe away any short-term advantage that the rightwing voter suppression efforts may have, leaving the GOP with an increasingly smaller base as it continues to alienate large sectors of society.

:stoned

ADG
Larry stop aggressively denouncing/belittling people that have an opinion that differs from yours... your pronounced bigotry and arrogance is a bit well...creepy... but see thats the beauty of America... you can think what you want AND are you ready for this?????

I can think what I want.. I know it's hard to believe, but that the law

if you want to be ashamed of being a middle aged American white male.. that's you're fucking issue and has nothing to do with me...:as far as rapidly changing demographics.... at some point there will be no more tax revenue left bribe the public for votes... then what?

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/phot...69-325-244.jpg

L-Pink 05-11-2014 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 20083314)
Larry stop aggressively denouncing/belittling people that have an opinion that differs from yours... your pronounced bigotry and arrogance is a bit well... disgusting... if you want to be ashamed of being a middle aged American white male.. that's you're fucking issue and has nothing to do with me...:as far as rapidly changing demographics.... at some point there will be no more tax revenue left bribe the public for votes... then what?

http://s13.postimg.org/vlg5x0l53/51n...L500_AA280.jpg


.

Robbie 05-11-2014 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 20083314)
Larry stop aggressively denouncing/belittling people that have an opinion that differs from yours... your pronounced bigotry and arrogance is a bit well...creepy... but see thats the beauty of America... you can think what you want AND are you ready for this?????

I can think what I want.. I know it's hard to believe, but that the law

if you want to be ashamed of being a middle aged American white male.. that's you're fucking issue and has nothing to do with me...:as far as rapidly changing demographics.... at some point there will be no more tax revenue left bribe the public for votes... then what?
Best reply in this thread! Thank you...somebody had to say it and you did perfectly.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude 05-11-2014 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 20083314)

Larry stop aggressively denouncing/belittling people that have an opinion that differs from yours... your pronounced bigotry and arrogance is a bit well...creepy... but see thats the beauty of America... you can think what you want AND are you ready for this?????

I can think what I want.. I know it's hard to believe, but that the law

if you want to be ashamed of being a middle aged American white male.. that's you're fucking issue and has nothing to do with me...:as far as rapidly changing demographics.... at some point there will be no more tax revenue left bribe the public for votes... then what?
I call you out as a bigot and racist Grapesoda because quite frankly, that is what you have proven yourself over and again to be... :2 cents:

In Grapesoda's own words:

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda

I think it's a cultural issue with blacks not assimilating in to white Western/European Culture.. for instance why do I know someone is black on the telephone 95% of time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda

the US doesn't protect it's borders or it's citizen and is being taught to be ashamed of it's culture... and every fucking lousy cock sucker that gets here from some piece of shit 3rd world county immediately tries to turn America into the same piece of shit while the US bust it's ass to help so we can all be proud of ethnic and cultural diversity.

and as soon as the filthy Islamic ass wipes start murdering random people in the street over here we will loose EVEN more personal freedom in the name of ethnic equality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda

hummmmm... seems like 99% of the race threads are started by 'blacks'... how did the chicken turn out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda

why do only the blacks have leaders? no other races have leaders... are blacks so much dumber than other racers they need special leaders? enquiring minds want to know...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda

they should ban the burka from the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda

hummm... Muslims refuse to integrate with ANY society and place themselves into segregated communities or ghettos... sorta like when blacks push for integration into a school the first they do is start black organizations becasue none can understand blacks like blacks do

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda

seems as if the human race is still 'tribal' in some respects and 'racism' is just a symptom of that. I don't really see or experience or any racism on a daily basis. but I do think urban 'culture' is crude, vulgar and focused on hubris at best tho....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda

You ever wonder why Arabs are completely fucked up

look at these pics.... what a bunch of fucked up cocksuckers with a fucked up culture for sure and to have to wear your mom's embroiderie hoop on your fucking head all day doesn't help....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda

only problem i have is that they are moving to western countries... as long as people stay in their country with their culture i dont care but dont bring that shit to other cultures - adapt to the culture you live in or get the fuck out
This thread you started was meant as race-bait (as many of your threads/posts are), so it doesn't surprise me when some of GFY's most prominent closet racists mindlessly cheer you on.

I don't need anybody cheerleading my posts to validate me or my positions.

It honestly cracks me up when self-proclaimed "true American" conservatives try to label liberals as "the real racists", to deflect from their own racism, with statements such as:

Quote:
I'd say that you are perpetuating the idea that somehow minorities are too stupid and/or weak to be able to do the simplest things.
Quote:
You're basically saying that other races (minorities) are inferior and unable to do the simplest and most basic things (like getting an ID).
Quote:
you except that minorities are not able to function at a high enough level in modern society to perform such a simple task, hence it's 'unfair' to ask that they do. you claim we are persecuting minorities for expecting that minorities can function at societal 'norms' ... who's the racist here again?
That is classic racist doublespeak... :1orglaugh

There are a variety of reasons that a substantial portion (as many as 11%) of the electorate do not have photo IDs, and many of the Voter ID laws are simply a thinly veiled conservative move to disenfranchise millions of American voters who historically vote for liberal candidates:

Quote:
Studies show that as many as 11 percent of eligible voters do not have government-issued photo ID. That percentage is even higher for seniors, people of color, people with disabilities, low-income voters, and students.

Many citizens find it hard to get government photo IDs, because the underlying documentation like birth certificates (the ID one needs to get ID) is often difficult or expensive to come by. At the same time, voter ID policies are far more costly to implement than many assume. Instead, Improvements in voting technology and modernization of our voter registration system will both increase efficiency and close the door on mistakes and fraud.
BTW, for the benefit of anyone who isn't aware about why you keep calling me "Larry", even though that is not a nickname that I use, this is Brian's cowardly impotence and immaturity on display.

Like many people on GFY, I choose to use a nick (in my case "ADG"), in lieu of my real name. I also have an industry name which I use when dealing with the public (Dick Webber), since I prefer to keep my real name private. With that said, I've conducted business with 100+ people on GFY, and they all know my real name.

Because he disagrees with my positions, Grapesoda is attempting to silence me by trying to use my name and the threat of exposing my private information as a form of bullying/intimidation. I'm sorry for him that he feels that he has to sink to that level in order to feel better about himself (very Donny Long of him).

Oh well, I will ask once again for Brian to please knock off the personal nonsense and stick to debating the issues.

Now I must go make brunch for my wife.

Have a Happy Mother's Day muthafuckas... :winkwink:

:stoned

ADG

kane 05-11-2014 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 20083170)
studies show that NO voter fraud has been prosecuted which is very different than studies done show that voter fraud is almost non-existent.... there is voter fraud all the time I'm sure.... saying there is NO voter fraud is like saying 'no one breaks the law' with a straight face and expecting everyone to believe it.... when obama started his run for pres, his senate seat went up for sale... (unless you think that is a teaparty plot as well) ... and yet you insist there is not voter fraud ? if there is no fraud, why is there such a determined effort to stop the ID law.... that what you should ask yourself :2 cents:
Obama's seat going up for sale had nothing to do with voter fraud. It was fraud pure and simple. It was one greedy guy trying to cash in on it. The voters themselves have nothing to do with it.

Why is there such a determined effort to stop the voter ID laws? Because they most affect the poor and minorities who regularly vote democrat. In many states these laws also include shortening early voting days and restricting how votes are cast which also tends to affect those who vote democrat more.

I'm sure there is some fraud that happens that isn't caught. I just don't see the evidence that it is a big problem and that these laws will fix it.

Robbie 05-11-2014 12:53 PM
kane, I'm not so sure that it's aimed at the "poor" or "minorities". They all have ID for the most part. Especially the REALLY poor who are on any kind of govt. assistance.

Nope...as I said earlier...I think it's aimed at keeping people who are not legal citizens from voting.

And IF a person from Mexico was here "illegally" and was going to vote...he would vote for the party that gives him the most "stuff" for free.

So in my mind...The Democrats don't want to lose those potential votes, and the Republicans want to shut that down.

Both sides are vested in it for their own power.

But in the end...showing ID to vote is a perfectly common sense move.

And if Democrats REALLY cared about "minorities" and "the poor" who supposedly do not have ID's by the millions...then they could turn their "Get Out The Vote" drives into "Get An ID And Vote" drives.

It's just not that hard to get an ID for the majority of healthy people. And if the Democrat Party Machine in towns can go pick people up in buses and take them to vote...then why can't they pick them up in buses and go get an ID too? :)

Nope...this is all about a "voting block" that theoretically exists: Illegal Immigrants.

Has nothing to do with poor people or "minorities" (the race card).
Poor people and minorities aren't stupid or helpless. And the vast majority of them HAVE ID so they can live their lives.

2MuchMark 05-11-2014 01:07 PM
The worst thing about all of this, is that the people in charge of this whole voter ID thing is that they do not even realize that it is racist. They are going out of their way to make it harder for minorities to vote, when they should be doing just the opposite.

Voting is a right for every citizen, and everyone should be encouraged, not discouraged, from voting for the people or party they believe will be better for the country.

Republican in office are so, fucking, fucked-up that they do not care that their old, boring and dangerous ideas are not what the majority of Americans want, so they lie and cheat their way into bending the votes towards their favour.


sad.

L-Pink 05-11-2014 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ********** (Post 20083430)
The worst thing about all of this, is that the people in charge of this whole voter ID thing is that they do not even realize that it is racist. They are going out of their way to make it harder for minorities to vote, when they should be doing just the opposite.

Voting is a right for every citizen, and everyone should be encouraged, not discouraged, from voting for the people or party they believe will be better for the country.

Republican in office are so, fucking, fucked-up that they do not care that their old, boring and dangerous ideas are not what the majority of Americans want, so they lie and cheat their way into bending the votes towards their favour.


sad.
Oh bullshit. The mere fact you WANT TO VOTE means you want to be part of the system. If part of the system means you have 4 years to come up with an ID between elections it should be no problem.

Don't confuse racism with common sense. Unless you are just fucking trolling again.


.

Grapesoda 05-11-2014 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kane (Post 20083415)
Obama's seat going up for sale had nothing to do with voter fraud. It was fraud pure and simple. It was one greedy guy trying to cash in on it. The voters themselves have nothing to do with it.
had everything to do with the seat going up for sale... IT'S THE SAME EXACT FUCKED UP PEOPLE IN ACTION... doing what they do... to think that this type of person would do commit voter fraud is INSANE :2 cents:

Quote:

Why is there such a determined effort to stop the voter ID laws? Because they most affect the poor and minorities who regularly vote democrat. In many states these laws also include shortening early voting days and restricting how votes are cast which also tends to affect those who vote democrat more.

I'm sure there is some fraud that happens that isn't caught. I just don't see the evidence that it is a big problem and that these laws will fix it.
do you have evidence of this OR are you reporting the common liberal narrative... i.e. did you do in-depth research? there is a big difference in the 'narrative and reality' why don't you see for yourself.... personally I have no knolwage or either side of the argument...

BUT I do believe if you need ID to get on a fucking airline, or buy cigarettes... maybe, just fucking maybe you should have ID to partake in the MOST valuable aspect of being an American..... the 'privilege of voting. that right I stated 'privilege' not a 'right'.... because that's what voting is, a privilege... a privilege hard earned by men's blood, you know the same men liberals mock everyday for being stupid enough to be a soldier...

Robbie 05-11-2014 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ********** (Post 20083430)
The worst thing about all of this, is that the people in charge of this whole voter ID thing is that they do not even realize that it is racist. They are going out of their way to make it harder for minorities to vote
So Mark...you think that "minorities" (and I believe YOU are talking about black people) don't have ID's?

Is that what you are saying?

And do you think that they are somehow inferior to white people who seem to be able to get an ID?

And how do you explain the fact that you can't get electricity, water, rent an apartment or buy a home, buy a car, get a phone, etc. WITHOUT an ID? How do you explain that Mark?

Are these imaginary "minorities" without ID just living by "magic"?

Please explain it to me. Am I "racist" because I foolishly think that minority races are perfectly as capable as I am of getting an ID?

Or are you the one who thinks they are inferior and YOU are the racist?

In which case, your statement: "do not even realize that it is racist" applies to YOU?

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude 05-11-2014 03:15 PM
http://cdn.thewire.com/media/img/upl...lead_large.jpg

From the Drudge Report yesterday:

Quote:
Rand Paul Comes Out Against Voter ID Laws

Sen. Rand Paul is now a disciple of the anti-voter ID movement, after the black pastors he met with on Friday showed him the way and the truth about measures that tend to decrease minority voter turnout.

After meeting with the pastors, Paul shared the good news with Jeremy W. Peters of The New York Times: the GOP needs to "lay off" the whole voter ID laws thing, according to Peters. "It's offending people," Paul said.

This isn't the first time Paul has met with black pastors ? it's just one element of his ongoing attempt to be the face of (successful) GOP outreach to black and Hispanic voters. And this also isn't the first time he's come out against the restrictive voter fraud laws in red states that disproportionately affect black voters (who are more likely to vote for Democrats).

Last month, during a conversation with David Axelrod, a former advisor of President Obama, Paul said he was against the restrictions on early voting passed in Ohio and Wisconsin, according to The Huffington Post. Paul has also come out in favor of restoring voting rights to ex-felons.
I'm guessing some Libertarians and GOP types are not going to like this very much...watching Ron and Rand Paul's LiberGOP bipolar political act certainly is entertaining. :1orglaugh

:stoned

ADG

kane 05-11-2014 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 20083439)
had everything to do with the seat going up for sale... IT'S THE SAME EXACT FUCKED UP PEOPLE IN ACTION... doing what they do... to think that this type of person would do commit voter fraud is INSANE :2 cents:



do you have evidence of this OR are you reporting the common liberal narrative... i.e. did you do in-depth research? there is a big difference in the 'narrative and reality' why don't you see for yourself.... personally I have no knolwage or either side of the argument...

BUT I do believe if you need ID to get on a fucking airline, or buy cigarettes... maybe, just fucking maybe you should have ID to partake in the MOST valuable aspect of being an American..... the 'privilege of voting. that right I stated 'privilege' not a 'right'.... because that's what voting is, a privilege... a privilege hard earned by men's blood, you know the same men liberals mock everyday for being stupid enough to be a soldier...
I wouldn't and don't have a problem with any voter ID law that is strictly about voter ID. If there was some way where a person who was forced to spend money to get an ID they otherwise didn't have and/or need in order to vote and they could show that doing so was a hardship for them, that this person could be reimbursed the cost or the ID and the process made available for free, I would have no issue with it.

The problem is that most of these laws also come with other restrictions. For example the voter ID law that is currently being fought over in North Carolina. In addition to having to show ID (which is fine) they also decreased the number of days for early voting and they removed the ability to register to vote and vote on the same day. Those second two things have nothing to do with voter ID and everything to do with limiting democrats votes because the studies show the those who vote democrat are more likely to vote early and take advantage of same day registration.

Personally I think all elections should be like my state does. You vote by mail. The ballot comes a few weeks before the election. You fill it out and mail it back or drop it in a vote ballot collection box. Problems solved. Of course republicans don't like that because it increases voter turnout which they are not fans of.

Jel 05-11-2014 04:35 PM
ex-felons can't vote? why not?

pr0phet 05-11-2014 04:53 PM
If 90 percent of the people being asked are black then yes it's racist. Similar to marijuana laws.

mopek1 05-11-2014 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20083423)
kane, I'm not so sure that it's aimed at the "poor" or "minorities". They all have ID for the most part. Especially the REALLY poor who are on any kind of govt. assistance.

Nope...as I said earlier...I think it's aimed at keeping people who are not legal citizens from voting.
Disagree.

It is to keep people who normally vote democrat away from the polling stations.

Again. Republicans have rarely shown any interest in voter fraud. The electronic voting machines example was cited above. The Florida voter count controversy had NO republicans questioning the validity of what happened. None of them called for an inquiry to protect the electoral process afterwards. Because they WON!!

Again, they don't care about keeping things 'just'. Republicans are doing this NOT because they really care about I.D. requirements, it's to keep a segment of voters away.

Now, you might say, "Why shouldn't people have I.D? Isn't that fair and just? Isn't it logical?"

Maybe so. But DO NOT pretend that this is about that.

2MuchMark 05-11-2014 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 20083436)
Oh bullshit. The mere fact you WANT TO VOTE means you want to be part of the system. If part of the system means you have 4 years to come up with an ID between elections it should be no problem.

Don't confuse racism with common sense. Unless you are just fucking trolling again.


.
Take it easy... jesus fucking christ. Don't you find it interesting that black, brown and young people tend to vote democratic, and the GOP wants to make it harder for them to vote, claiming voter fraud when there is hardly any? For the conspiracy-minded types at GFY this should be a no brainer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20083465)
Please explain it to me. Am I "racist" because I foolishly think that minority races are perfectly as capable as I am of getting an ID?
That's the thing Robbie, many minorities are not able to get the ID required, and some of the ID's that minorities do have are rejected for wrong reasons.

To give you an admittedly far-out example, here in Quebec a few years ago there was a general election, and there was reports of voter intimidation at the voting stations, where some people were now allowed to vote because they wore poppies on their coats. A Poppy is a symbol of remembrance of war veterans here in Canada, and nothing at all political. However, the right to vote was denied by these people anyway, and the reason was stupid - the same way it is stupid to deny voting rights to anyone because their ID isn't deemed good enough in the US.

kane 05-11-2014 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20083423)
kane, I'm not so sure that it's aimed at the "poor" or "minorities". They all have ID for the most part. Especially the REALLY poor who are on any kind of govt. assistance.

Nope...as I said earlier...I think it's aimed at keeping people who are not legal citizens from voting.

And IF a person from Mexico was here "illegally" and was going to vote...he would vote for the party that gives him the most "stuff" for free.

So in my mind...The Democrats don't want to lose those potential votes, and the Republicans want to shut that down.

Both sides are vested in it for their own power.

But in the end...showing ID to vote is a perfectly common sense move.

And if Democrats REALLY cared about "minorities" and "the poor" who supposedly do not have ID's by the millions...then they could turn their "Get Out The Vote" drives into "Get An ID And Vote" drives.

It's just not that hard to get an ID for the majority of healthy people. And if the Democrat Party Machine in towns can go pick people up in buses and take them to vote...then why can't they pick them up in buses and go get an ID too? :)

Nope...this is all about a "voting block" that theoretically exists: Illegal Immigrants.

Has nothing to do with poor people or "minorities" (the race card).
Poor people and minorities aren't stupid or helpless. And the vast majority of them HAVE ID so they can live their lives.
I disagree and think it is just the opposite. If I were living illegally in a country the last thing I would try to do is vote and put myself in a situation where people might find out I am an illegal.

The studies have shown that people who tend to vote democrat also tend use the early voting days and those without ID's, depending on the number you believe it could be a good segment of the population, also tend to vote democrat.

There is a reason (as far as I know)that every one of these bills has been put forth by republicans. They want to keep the poor, the disenfranchised, and the elderly who are on state assistance away from the polls because they tend to vote democrat.

I don't doubt for a second that the democrats would love to find a way to help illegals vote, but I think they are working on doing that through easing immigration laws. Make them legal first, then get them to to the polls.

Just Alex 05-11-2014 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude (Post 20083409)
I call you out as a bigot and racist Grapesoda because quite frankly, that is what you have proven yourself over and again to be... :2 cents:

In Grapesoda's own words:



This thread you started was meant as race-bait (as many of your threads/posts are), so it doesn't surprise me when some of GFY's most prominent closet racists mindlessly cheer you on.

I don't need anybody cheerleading my posts to validate me or my positions.

It honestly cracks me up when self-proclaimed "true American" conservatives try to label liberals as "the real racists", to deflect from their own racism, with statements such as:







That is classic racist doublespeak... :1orglaugh

There are a variety of reasons that a substantial portion (as many as 11%) of the electorate do not have photo IDs, and many of the Voter ID laws are simply a thinly veiled conservative move to disenfranchise millions of American voters who historically vote for liberal candidates:



BTW, for the benefit of anyone who isn't aware about why you keep calling me "Larry", even though that is not a nickname that I use, this is Brian's cowardly impotence and immaturity on display.

Like many people on GFY, I choose to use a nick (in my case "ADG"), in lieu of my real name. I also have an industry name which I use when dealing with the public (Dick Webber), since I prefer to keep my real name private. With that said, I've conducted business with 100+ people on GFY, and they all know my real name.

Because he disagrees with my positions, Grapesoda is attempting to silence me by trying to use my name and the threat of exposing my private information as a form of bullying/intimidation. I'm sorry for him that he feels that he has to sink to that level in order to feel better about himself (very Donny Long of him).

Oh well, I will ask once again for Brian to please knock off the personal nonsense and stick to debating the issues.

Now I must go make brunch for my wife.

Have a Happy Mother's Day muthafuckas... :winkwink:

:stoned

ADG
I think most of his observations are pretty accurate. Unpleasant to hear for some but not racist. Is it racist to say Chinese like rice?

Mutt 05-11-2014 05:55 PM
This is just ridiculous. If you can't get your shit together to have proper ID then nobody needs your vote. And if you're senile, mentally ill to the point your cognitive function is seriously impaired - no we definitely don't need you voting.

The same technology that is used for Bitcoins could be used for voting, the time has come for online voting. Put this into the hands of Apple or a consortium of tech companies - we saw what the White House did with the healthcare website.


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