Of course it can change ratios.
But adding one payment option can NOT discourage 50% + people from joining the site.

Like you have a payiste with steady 200 sales a day, add bitcoin option amongst others and just because of that you start getting only 100 sales.

Come on man... You can not be this stupid.

Simple and seemingly beneficial or innocuous changes often have a very profound impact, positive or negative and the results are nearly always counter-intuitive. My experience is that its very possible and it would depending primarily on how it was presented to the user. For example, if its presented like "Best Deal: Save 50%, pay with Bitcoins"... then almost every single user who doesn't know what a bitcoin is has to leave the join process to educate themselves. Those that do know, have to leave the join process to calculate the actual cost to them. Either way, they are lost.

Damian, I agree with you more than many on here, but on this one you're missing the point. The doubled ratio could indeed just be from increased traffic but no additional sales, not actual decreased sales. Without another metric (i.e. did traffic increase substantially, or not) it's not possible to tell.

But I do think adding something like Bitcoin could reduce signups that much too. It's amazing how tiny changes to the signup process can affect customer decisions, and Bitcoin isn't exactly a confidence-inducing commodity right now...

This is valid point. I seriously doubt there was discounted option presented like that in this case.
But, look, man.
There are other paysites accepting BTC. Even if adding btc option would have decreased their sales by 5-10% they would have dropped it within the first week! 5-10%. And we are engaging into considering 50%+++

PLEASE!

If btc could decrease signups by 5-10% EVERY site accepting them would have dropped this option immediately. And you are considering 50%!
Please, I do not wish to live on this planet anymore if seemingly smart GFYers are saying things like that. Unbelievable. :2 cents:

There's no need to categorize people having insane/not reasonable thinking when it comes to trying to sort out customer buying habits.

You can simple disagree and post your views and comments.

No offense meant, I was just genuinely (more than) shocked by this line of thinking :2 cents:
I am being honest here ^

I'm not saying anything definitive one way or another, just that it's possible IMO. Over the years I've seen - both from my own sites and closely working with others - extremely small changes to tours, join pages, and signup forms have substantial effects on sales. Sometimes the changes seem so minor that you don't believe them yourself until testing and stats over time bears them out. And yes, even 50% swings or more.

Personally I wouldn't offer Bitcoin for L-Pink's reasoning - all those guys know where to find the free porn. In this day & age we need to understand our market segments and focus only on the ones who are proven to buy.

it smells like clever marketing, what better way to draw attention to your sites than to make some bold claim?

it's also pretty convenient that OP writes articles for a living and his site that happens to improve conversions is mentioned in the article...

this thread will probably turn into a 10-pager, and with some luck some mainstream media will also pick up on it...

well played :thumbsup

Thanks Sean

Nice to see a genuine smack down of damianj stupidity and endless brown nosing. Really entertaining to watch.

I will agree that minor changes in any one step of the join process can have a huge impact (positive or negative) but certainly seems like more going on then 50% drop in *sales* by just adding bitcoin.

However, like I said in previous post and thoughts... I think the option could be added and have absolutely no negative impact and then the decision would be... is it even worth it at all? Maybe, maybe not... if it doesn't hurt the process, then why not.

Two points:

1. I've "fiddled with" my Join pages and found the tiniest change can affect ratios. Example: I added an orange border around my Join options (only 3, no more) and form hits jumped 22%. WTF??? I'm serious: a PayPal-orange-colored 2 pixel thick fucking border around the white Join options. WHAMMO a 22% click-through increase. Took the border away, form hits dropped back down 22%. NOT joking. Then I read where orange is an 'action color". Maybe that's why PayPal uses it, eh? Hmmm....

(Many have said my Join options are "too thin, too small" and have suggested I "make them bigger, easier to read" so I tried that. A-B tested it. After ten days of shitty sales I put the old, "odd-sized" Join buttons back. Sales magically returned. NEVER TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS ALWAYS A-B TEST.)

2. I now believe JT's biggest advantage was the money he received from the sale of YouPorn. This allowed him to do something very few could do in today's shrinking revenue marketplace: re-invest every penny back into his business. I applaud him for this and ackowledge his achievements. I do, however, wish more companies could expand in this way in today's environment.

What I don't understand is why larger companies who still film their own content are not employing the same filming/editing strategies (based on tube research) Ruseful is employing to maximize their tube traffic. I still see "the same old shit" being regurgitated endlessly while the Producers of this content complain about their shrinking ratios. Odd.

My traffic stayed consistent throughout the 7 days testing on Casting.xxx and the 24hrs on PublicAgent.com. We did not do a press release about accepting Bitcoin. So in effect, the sales ratio did worsen for this same traffic. The only difference to the user experience was having the word "Bitcoin" on my join page.

We first listed Bitcoin as a 4th pay option in the list. No icon, simply Bitcoin. After 3 days, we created a heading of "alternative payment" under the 3rd payment option. This had no effect. We removed Bitcoin from Casting.xxx and put it live on PublicAgent.com, under "alternative payment" and saw the same effects.

The reason we tested for 8 days before pulling is that we wanted to give this enough time. Believe me, I wanted to pull this after 48 hrs.

Also understand, if someone could tell me what I did wrong, and suggested a solution, I would put Bitcoin back on a site for testing.

An important factor to consider that differentiates my sites from others that accept Bitcoin is the fact that over 90% of my traffic is derived from the tubes. That is what I founded my company on, given my background. Maybe this traffic is fickle to Bitcoin? Maybe those users thought "interesting, Bitcoin..." and then went off to explore about Bitcoin, maybe looking at what price it was.

I consider the traffic to my sites to be in a different mindset to more traditional traffic. Quite simply, they have whacked off to one of my clips on the tubes, and are now in a happy place, with all the hormones running through their brain. For a tube site, if you can keep these users on your tube, is golden times. They explore, clicking more pages, doing more searches, clicking on more banners. This is when the ave page view per visitor really increases, and therefore, really increases your banner impressions. And, ultimate goal of the tube is to have that user exit your tube by clicking on a banner. We studied this behaviour intensely and were the first tube to offer the "we recommend" option for other videos they may like. We listed thumbnails on the video player page of other videos they may like. This was a serious hook to get the users to stay on YouPorn post masturbation, and helped us increase our ave page views per visit to an average of 10.7.

With the tube user being in this mindset, in exploratory mode, they start to click banners on the video player page (thats why the next to video a and b banners on a tubes video player page are prime real estate as its post masturbation). Some of those users click on my banner under the video player and come have a look around my tour. A side note: for every 1 user that clicks on my banner, 2 directly type my website name directly into their browser. Maybe there is a trust issue for those 2 users of clicking a banner on a tube?

So, now that I have classified the mindset of the traffic hitting my website, maybe, just maybe, the Bitcoin option on my join form, gave them another reason to go off exploring. Right now, thats the only rational explanation I have as to why Bitcoin simply did not work for me.

Most people don't have a clue what bitcoin is so its hard for me to imagine why having bitcoin as a billing option would mess with sales ratio.

I am working with a exclusive sponsor and i am directly targeting bitcoin holders and here are the stats for the 9 days:

1:317 8567 27 sales


did a search for casting.xxx and found some bitcoin addresses that were receiving payments off of torrents.

19CWNopXCHSwWtWQ89NHC471LMn2Gy5j5G 90.80
13La83tHanB9GJSHg41rrufafwLhbbE73U 11.34
1XeH1kKXWYbzZcFHokGiZ4d3MWW5WyXzU 8.58
1KeBs4HBQzkdHC2ou3gpyGHqcL7aKzwTve 41,305.61 Piratebay
1WVpM2ygBqDpSRz7xLv7rBfzJWMimSYgD 298.94

Yep, you are directly targeting bit coin users, I simply put bit coin on my join option.

Can you clarify what you mean about you did a search for casting.xxx and the torrents?

Also, are you my old affiliate manager? If so, would you mind contacting me?

Lol,you dont remember your previous employee ?

By the way one note to some of you who advocated strange things in this thread: read the title of the thread, it says "removes bitcoin for LACK OF VALUE".
Do you think title would be like this is bitcoin option stole 50% of the sales? :1orglaugh

And this note is just on top of everything else what I said and what was basic common sense :)

Yes I do, but my old affiliate manager simply vanished from the face of the earth after having an accident over a year ago. I thought he has died. And he used the gfy nick of Tampa toker.

"My traffic stayed consistent throughout the 7 days testing on Casting.xxx and the 24hrs on PublicAgent.com. We did not do a press release about accepting Bitcoin. So in effect, the sales ratio did worsen for this same traffic. The only difference to the user experience was having the word "Bitcoin" on my join page."

See, Beaner, this is the difference between you and me. In short, I was right and you assumed, speculated and were horribly wrong. Like with so many life choices you make.

Lolsome.

xoxoxo

Thanks for clarifying the details even more JT. Really useful information!

lo bitcoin is killer

mineistaken, did you read this?


:winkwink:

Look, I'm not trying to step on anyone's cock, but one company came out and said that adding bitcoin to its tube raised sales by 50% and nobody doubted it, but when another guy comes and says adding bitcoin to his tube dropped sales by 50% and folks don't believe it... I know both companies watch their stats better than most folks here, so it's not like they don't know what they're doing, but it's clear that some bitcoin fanboys are only interested in hearing positive news, rather than the truth.

There are other companies that jumped on the bandwagon for the pure PR value, and you may see more retractions in the future as additional companies step back from bitcoin...

:2 cents:

I think everyone who doesn't have a turnip instead of a brain doubted it, actually. :)

I was speaking in context of this venue fine sir, so...

As to the point, I like that first firm, but I couldn't help think "50%? What, did you make two sales today and one was via bitcoin?"

@Stepehen
I definitely don't see the two news items as contrary. That it may work well on one site and not on another isn't really surprising - especially when the traffic pathing to point of sale and traffic sources are likely to be very different.

As was mentioned on another board: I'd also be very curious to see how Bitcoin would do on a gay site aimed at men on the down-low. Someone like a married guy cruising gay porn, shopping escorts on Eros, or a cheating spouse using dating sites and not wanting their significant other to find out on AshleyMadison would also seem to be a good Bitcoin target consumer.

The lesson here isn't "bitcoin good" or "bitcoin bad" like Frankenstein might mutter to himself. There is more complexity to it than that...

It's like with many other factors in this biz, your mileage may vary.

My comment was mostly aimed at the responses to these statements rather than the statements themselves.

Yes JT it is me. I will hit you up later today......

Aww man I love your posts :thumbsup I burst out laughing when I read that :)

Very interesting article by JT, that guy does some serious testing so I wouldn't doubt what he says for a second. When he talks, I listen!

I dunno if you saw this thread, some incredible info JT shared with GFY about his promo on the tubes

https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1131741

You quoted me saying I agree minor changes can have a huge impact, positive or negative. It statements like this that make you look like a gimp...

And the reason you look like a blind eye pea is because you are, and your choice of words solidifies that.

Now, back to real, adult talk. Anything so drastic, as what has been posted, obviously has a reason. So we are considering 3 options:
1) design
2) hate for bitcoin
3) combination of 1 and 2

Here is a revised first step join form for you JT. It will lower your ratios and allows bitcoin people to follow the bitcoin link :upsidedow

http://i.imgur.com/xjKeqF5.jpg

what planet did this thread just beam to?

Interesting thread, bump!

Great point. Bitcoin is presently a fad to the mainstream. After the fad wanes it will remain a currency for the digitally minded. If you know how to generate a Bitcoin you know how to get any digital content for free and are inclined to do so.

IMO the value of cyrptocurrency to porn currently is in it freeing producers from the oversight of Visa and MasterCard's content restrictions. If you are creating "same girl gets banged by same guy on same couch" content I cant really see it's benefit. But if you are creating content that is on the edge of what Visa and MasterCard deem acceptable then Bitcoin may offer you a chance to offer that to a wider audience.

Just some stats from running cam sites: the biggest cam site spenders are 40+ years old and, given the type of support emails we get from them, they barely know how to power on the PC.

I consider 3 options when reading your posts:

1) you are drunk
2) you are high
3) combination of 1 and 2

That's my experience with the vintage niche, except the best age range is even higher. Whenever I see an AOL email in the signup list I know that customer is going to be loyal for a nice long time, and probably send 10+ support emails about the basics of browser operation. Bless their hearts.

Bitcoin guys have every tube, torrent site, and file locker in an encrypted bookmarks folder.

What does The PR Dave say ?: :thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thum bsup

Planet Bitcoin-Delusion

You know how a lot of people argue that BTC is great for anonymous purchases and is why people would buy porn with it? Well, why would it be better than pre-paid credit cards that everyone has been using for online porn, phone sex, strip clubs, escorts (Some places), etc. for years? :upsidedow

I'm surprised you guys didn't make any sales with Bitcoin. No one is getting rich from Bitcoin members, but people do use them to join sites. If you exchange them at the right time the value of the members can be equal to a multi month rebill.

Yeah, i was being sarcastic. Every one seems to willfully ignore what is the most stunning bit of info in the article.

Will the real slim shady please stand up

Trust has a bigger effect than you think.
How often have you bought something at a site because you saw they processed with paypal?

Bad news can impact sales negatively. Would you buy from Target.com right now?

With all the negative news associated with bitcoin, it may have an a discouraging effect.

Don't believe everything you read.
Much of what goes on in these threads is PR as much as anythng.

The ONLY people who "know what's going on" are the people in the actual room making the actual deals. Mostly everything else is either spin or so "site specific" that the info doesn't really translate.

To ME the most interesting thing about JT's advice, especially in previous threads, is why companies currently filming content are not adjusting to what JT advises. In other words: start shooting differant content.

Ruseful's success has little to nothing to do with their tours, domains or even their 'tube strategy' (which I have many opinions on but will reserve for now). No, it's because they shoot GREAT CONTENT. They may fine tune their content for tubes and this maximizes their efforts I'm sure, but it comes down to great content presented well. Everything else is just niddling with 5-10% here and there.

As i've said many times before.. EVERY DETAIL is important. Those who act that way and spend attention on every detail and work to improve every single step or component of the process, tend to do very well. And as i demonstrated with actual math in the Shap thread... its that "5-10% here and there" that makes all the difference in the world... and the failure to understand that, is also where most tend to fail.

Ah cool, glad to see you're back, look forward to catching up :)

oh dear....................

TBH I thought it was common knowledge, JT has shared his opinions and numbers quite a few times on GFY. The numbers are very impressive, especially considering it's all generated from free traffic sources

You really do talk absolute bollocks :2 cents:

:thumbsup

Really? You think they do not shoot excellent content? Interesting.


I have also stated endlessly that EVERY DETAIL is important (and sited examples). What I'm saying is that without the foundation of excellent content you can focus on the "5-10% here and there" all you want and you will not see the success JT has achieved.

JT shoots his content with tube audiences in mind. that means he pays the talent to shoot the content HIS way based on his research. So guess what? The content is working brilliantly (congrats again JT!). So, in the end, it's not the Join forms or the Tours or the this or that (although VERY important), it's his content. Not to sound like Paul Markham here but look at other content currently being produced and displayed on the tubes for all to see and pay for - and that content is performing poorly while JT's (and mine, ahem) continue to perform exceedingly well.

We are not in disagreement here. I am simply stating where 90% of the focus should be and is: content. And not everyone has the resources to produce such content. If they DID then JT's advice would be paying off for countless companies, wouldn't it?

"Really Useful Cash Removes Bitcoin For Lack of Value"

I'm thinking about removing the dollar for the exact same reason:2 cents:
It's a complete mess.....:helpme