For sure. They were hoping for something like social security. Those who pay into it and not really use it will pay for those that do use it, but I think one of the problems is that many people, hell, everyone I know other than myself, gets insurance through their job. Those without insurance normally have a reason. Sure, there are some people who are just young and healthy and don't feel the need to pay for it, but I think many of the uninsured either have pre-existing conditions or didn't make enough money to afford it. Those people are not coming on board, but there aren't enough "non-users" out there to cover the cost.

My old plan was far from being a catastrophic plan.

Prescriptions were already a part of it. As were doctors visits.

We pay $3,000 and after that our insurance covers ALL of our medical costs.
I don't have any new "perks". The pregnancy coverage (that I don't need) is the only thing. :(

And I'm still waiting for it to cover birth control pills for my wife. The cost of those has now risen from around 30 to 40 bucks a month up to the latest $90 a month that she just got filled.

The costs of everything has jumped meteorically in the last couple of years like I've never seen before.

I guess because the medical companies and pharma are ready to get on the govt. bandwagon and the sky is the limit when the govt. pays for it (talking about the possibility of single pay). Just like those $1,000 toilet seats at the Pentagon. lol

So the actual costs of healthcare are taking off like never before.

Under Obama, the work force has shrunk and the median wage has gone down 7% in the last 5 years. Paying more for health insurance is going to make it worse. Every business will suffer as people will have less to spend!

There is no reason to give you a serious reply, you are so brainwashed it doesn't matter what anyone says if it's doesn't coincide with your fantasyland ideas then it's always wrong.

Hell, young people don't get to touch their social security for 40 years. At least healthcare can be used immediately

That was always what made my mind up back in the day when it was put money in HSA or IRA...

Go see a shrink before you start shooting people..

:) Thanks I'm here all week.

The last 20 years have seen a lot of things happen that are indicators of bad things to come. The middle class has shrunk and those in it have more debt than ever before. The cost of education has skyrocketed. Healthcare costs have skyrocketed. Housing costs have skyrocketed in many parts of the country.

While the overall workforce has shrunk we have seen in increase in those working well into their retirement age because they can't afford to retire.

At some point something has to give. It seems like we are heading down a bad road.

Its been dropping waaay before obama. Wages have been dropping for over 30 yrs. Technology is doing the shrinking.
And alot of those polices cost more now than before because the policy actually has to cover shit and they could pitch you at will. They should of did single payer not a give me to the big business obama supposedly hates.

I would love to know how much of a factor health insurance and its costs play in the price of medications. I have a feeling that many of them are getting more expensive simply because the pharm companies know they can charge that and we have no other option but to pay it.

I saw a story recently about a pharm company that developed a drug that treats a certain type of cancer. One full cycle of the drug costs $85,000. It came out that the pharm company has made back all of the money they invested to make the drug and now the full cycle only costs them $300 to make. However, they still have 6 years left on their exclusive patent so they have no intention of lowering the cost at all. Many insurance companies simply won't pay for it so if you get that form of cancer and you have the wrong insurance you better have a bunch of cash available or you won't get treatment.

Same thing happens whenever the govt. "gravy train" comes to town.

Look at what happened to the cost of going to college once the govt. came out with student loans.

You've got to be kidding me.

Do you think that's because of Obama... Or because of the recession that happened during the term of the Republican White House before him?

I would say the housing market collapse in 2008 (which is what happened to the economy) caused a lot of folks to lose their jobs.

And the policies of the current administration have not helped in job creation very much at all.

Dear moron, I didn't say "spent" I said "spend" if that's your best argument to facts, no need to rush home from McDonald's to post it.

Under Obama
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...IhIAAAMhiY.png

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...r-force-again/

Three reasons the U.S. labor force keeps shrinking

1) The aging of America.
2) The bad economy is keeping workers in school and out of the labor force.
3) More workers are going on disability insurance

He's a moron, he comes into these threads and says the same thing to me, that I need a shrink.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome, yet he never gets one, he's a fucking moron that needs to see a shrink! LOL

And apparently hooked on phonics!

We know what caused it, we need to move on a fix it, Obama has failed to do that, the liberals on this forum can't see that!

Even when the Democrats had all the power, all they could get done was to pass this piece of shit law. They could have done something great, but did this instead!

You have no serious reply, you can't even get the difference between spend and spent.

You never back that up with anything relevant. Supply facts that actually pertain to the discussion. We see your opinion all the time.

Your rant on illegal aliens is a perfect example. I asked who is going to pay the healthcare costs of the millions of illegals and you went on and on about nothing close to taking on that question.

I'll ask again. What does obamacare plan to do with the millions of illegal aliens in the US?

Here in LA I hear commercials on the radio about how illegal aliens deserve Obamacare and how they are going to push to get it.

Seems like it will just be the usual emergency room thing that the previous plan offered. That and deportation.

Immigration reform will happen sooner or later if republicans ever want a chance at the white house again, which would then allow illegals to become legal and then get medicaid/obamacare.

Instead of the silver plan I ended up going with a gold plan w/ obamacare for $227 a month. Get to keep my doctors, lots of free copays and deductible down to $1250. Before I was paying $175 for catastrophic

Picked up a dental add on though I am skeptical how useful these are, but that is just in general not an obamacare thing.

It is odd how everyone against obamacare seems to have a bad experience and everything who is open to the idea of the law not so much. Sure I'm all for single payer but I'll take the changes offered here over the previous options.

That's not really what he asked.

Right now illegal aliens cost about a billion a year in the emergency rooms.

Republicans have a chance at the white house as long as they can get someone that will fight for it. Romney, though a really smart guy and he had a good track record, didn't fight enough for it.

Really I think before they can have an effective immigration reform, they need to close the borders, we spend billions spying on people in other countries, yet a racial Islam follower can walk across the border with a dirty nuke on his back. Makes sense right? NOT!

fight for what?

Fight for the presidency, there were several things Romney didn't attack on which he should have been relentless.
Now that Canadian crackhead mayor has a higher approval rating than our president..

The press completely missed the health care story and dismissed Romney's criticisms of ObamaCare even though many later proved to be true.

It's wonderful to see how everyone has managed to change each other's minds and views.

I used to wish for nuclear war - this thread and the other 2 dozen a day that are created just like it, resulting in the exact same one dimensional and biased arguments by the exact same one dimensional and biased people on both sides, might just sway me in the other direction.

Opinions vary, But I learn a lot from these threads, both by listening to what people have to say and searching for the truth of the matter.

I never thought Obamacare was well laid out, guess I was right all this time

It does nothing because you have to be a citizen to get it.
http://www.politifact.com/florida/st...health-care-l/

That is a great deal!

Can I ask how old you are and the area of the country you live in?
Out here in Nevada I can't get anything close to that. And according to the news...people in California are seeing 300% + rate increases.

What a shocker... you "were right all this time".

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

29, so that helps it. But again what I was paying was based on my age too...

No outrage? Aren't these human beings worthy of life?

Immigration reform.

I wonder why they called that the *dream act*

So in the meantime..there are millions of people here that will not even be eligible for healthcare.

Not yet, Illegal aliens have rights in this country, why? Hell I guess because politicians want their vote!
California has already asked that illegal aliens be included in Obamacare
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgr...-to-obamacare/

Yes you are truly the pentacle of open minded give and take. I'm astonished how many times you have changed your mind on a subject because you listened and learned from someone else. Ahh who am I kidding how could you ever need to change your mind as you are always right.....

crockett...that's the way debate goes between two opposing sides.

You are EXACTLY the same way. You think you are right and you never change your mind either.

Instead of attacking each other...how about everybody argue the points instead. Let the IDEAS be what decides who "wins" instead of fighting with each other personally.

Both you and vendzilla obviously want the best outcome for everyone. You just disagree on how to get from Point A to Point B.

Yes, what he thinks seems stupid to you because you THINK you have it all solved. And what you think seems stupid to him because he THINKS he has it all solved.

Get past that, and realize that neither of you have the complete answer.
Right now, your ideology is in the fire because ObamaCare is happening...and it's not exactly going according to plan.

You have to realize it's horribly flawed. And you're gonna take some lumps for that in the arena of ideas.

If it magically turns around and health care costs actually do drop $2,500 per family as the Pres. promised and all is unicorns and rainbows...then you will be able to boast about it.

But neither you nor Vendzilla are responsible for the condition our country is in.

The people responsible are the career/lifetime Democrats and Republicans in Washington D.C.
They fucked it up. Not you, not Vendzilla.

So try to keep that in mind when you vent your frustration and anger.

Why should I argue talking points with a guy that can't even reply with out calling me a derogatory name in every reply? I'm just giving him back exactly what he gives out. If he doesn't like it, then maybe he should change his tune. Until then I just give him what he deserves.

Somebody has to be the better man first...

Errr I am pretty sure Obama and democrats have tried to pass this, not stand in the way. It seems you are trying to fault obamacare to not do everything possible and right all wrongs. Just seems like you are stretching awfully far....

All the gfy republicans seem to keep coming out and criticizing obamacare because of its relationship to insurance companies. But the current GOP stance while it involves some changes it is still the status quo of private for profit insurance companies running the show. Liberals simply view obamacare as a stepping stone towards a single payer system. So great, Obamacare isn't the cure all for everything (even though it's brand fucking new and who knows how it will pan out), but it is change and it's just a step towards single payer.

Outrage about costs and insurance companies dropping out of exchanges just helps speed this process up.

Just remember if Hilary runs healthcare was her thing when Clinton was in office and the GOP's response to it was the mandate that conservatives hate so much (lol) and the private insurance etc. that was the basis of obamacare. So if this happens, well, start shorting health insurance companies or something ;)