Joe Sixpack

Probably never had the desire to travel anywhere I'll bet.

escorpio

I have worked as a roadie. I have travelled ALL of the USA. For fun I backpack in Mexico. I want to visit Thailand and HK. Why would not having a desire to go to Asstralia mean I have no desire to go anywhere and have been nowhere?

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HeadPimp

Why does everyone hate the USA? Because there is so much to hate! We allow allmost all religions, so any other faction can hate us for that. We have a wide racial diversity, and people hate that (can't be mixing up tribal boundaries.) There is a lot of room for personal expression, which inevitably will offend people. Personally I feel if you aren't offending someone, then you aren't trying hard enough. We have money, and anyone without money will hate the guys with money. I know this as a fact.

Yes we bully people around and do what we have to get our way. We also feed millions of people who aren't ours, and take in millions more into our economy. We aren't perfect, but I don't think I will be moving anytime soon.

There are some other great countries to live in, but we are still the place people want to go because you can pull off the American dream if you move here, even if you aren't American by birth.

I will stop now, because this is turning into a patriotic rant, but we rock, and we suck. That is just the way things are. No place is perfect. We just happen to be the big target for the world.

Joe Sixpack

So you've been to Mexico?

That's it?

Bwahahahahaahahahaha!

[Labret]

So great art is determined by what people are willing to pay for it and the revenue that said art generates, and shitty art is art that people will not pay for? Correct?




Sorta like when you refer to me as Mohammed?



Wrong, you value what you are told to value. If music corporations didnt ram their creation down your throat, you would never even know she existed.

Her "art" got her nowhere. She is the creation, not the creator. She does not write "her" music, she does not play the instruments, she is a mere puppet giving your kind what they want. Similar to the fulfillment a Big Mac brings.

Using the Raider Mort Theory of Artistic Value, if MTV told you that Hello Kitty was the pinnacle of high art and you and all your friends run out and spend ridiculous amounts of money on Hello Kitty merch... who really placed the value on said art Mr Mort? Society at large? Or the herder that told you Hello Kitty was the shit?



And what would that be exactly?




You are right. Art would not exist without government funding.

escorpio

Yeah. So far my travels have been limited to Mexico, USA and Canada. But I've covered them pretty well. Thailand and especially HK cost $$$ to travel to from here and I simply haven't had the time or $$$. Parenthood. It'll be over soon and then I'll be able to go to Asia for an extended trip. Looking forward to it! You have metioned youth hostels. You travel like a tourist and meet mostly other tourists that way.

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JeremySF

Seriously, forming an opinion about Americans on a porn webmaster message board that is called GoFuckYourself.com is not the best place to form an opinion. People on this board talk a lot of smack, try to push a lot of buttons, because they want to stir shit, and probably 90% it's just b.s. Myself included. For example, all the smack talked about Australia has mainly been to get at Joe. I don't think I've ever met a single fellow American who doesn't have an overwhelmingly positive view of Australia. They may not like Joe, but they like Australia.

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JeremySF

As if the rest of the world doesn't make cracks about Americans, McDonald's, Budweiser, etc.

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JeremySF

Do you believe everything you see on television? By statement like that, you don't come across as ignorant?

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JaySpray21

Groove

How can you mock a country you've never visited?

That's just ignorant

Chichio

Joe Sixpack,

----off the topic-----

Where was that artical about the Euro and the Dollar again?

I can't seem to dig it up again.

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Groove

You just don't get it! By taking the piss out of Australia using The Crocodile Hunter and Fosters as ammunition Americans are demonstrating how little they know about Australia or the other countries they like to feel superior to. The Crocodile Hunter and Fosters are crap products we have somehow managed to sell to the USA. Virtually nobody watches Crocodile Hunter in Australia and I do not know any Australians who drinks Fosters! And people are using these caricatures to combat Joe Six Pack's assertion that all Americans are ignorant. Can't you see the irony?

JeremySF

You may be right.

But when I traveled the world for 12 months, I encountered my fair share of Britons and Aussies who had never been to America and made cracks about the U.S., in the process demonstrating their ignorance of the U.S. Much of the time it was all in good fun.

I would like to say that all the people who make the cracks about Croc Hunter and Fosters are just taking the piss and don't really think that all aussies consume these products, but sadly I think there are a number of people on this board who are that ignorant, but I would hardly say they're represenative of America.

And, besides, I know the truth: You all eat at Outback... LOL


That *was* a joke....

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Raider Mort

Hey dude, have you been to a gallery recently??

They do not exactly give paintings away for free.

But on the other hand, you have your starving artists selling their crap on the sidewalk for chmup-change.

Hmm, that is evidence that folks place different monetary values on art, isn't it??

Anyways, what you fail to understand is that society rewards folks for giving society what it wants.

Not what you think it wants, needs, or deserves.

BTW-I'll call you mohammed if I wish. Deal with it.

bhutocracy

hello pot, meet kettle.
what in the article had anything to do with a lack of culture?
anything less than a Tonya Harding boxing match?
anything less than a Jerry Springer show?
did you miss the writer noting the strangeness of the situation?
bear in mind here that american culture is also seen as an oxymoron by snooty europeans.
please don't provide open displays of ignorance when as a young country you're in the same boat as us..

DavePlays

And the award for the most well thought out, intelligently written and most informed reply goes to.....




A tribute to open-minded fair thinking people everywhere.



fool.....

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JeremySF

Are you telling me Tonya Harding and Jerry Springer aren't high culture? Fuck! What about porn?

In all seriousness, though, I'd say there are white trash elements in a lot of cultures: English, German, Swedish, Australia and of course in the U.S.

But, given how young we are, we've contributed a fairly significant amount to culture, of course both high and low.

The same country that brought you Tonya Harding, Jerry Springer, and Coyote Ugly also brought you jazz, blues, rock, house music, hip hop and film.

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javok

I am proud of USA, GO USA!!

bhutocracy

I was I no way saying america didn't have high culture, that would have been counter-productive to my point, merely reminding escorpio that America isn't held with the highest cultural regard by other countries, and for every trashy thing about Australian culture there is a parallel in American and any other for that matter. I used Tonya Harding as a direct comparison to Chopper Reid as a criminal in the spotlight. Not as an example of "american culture".
Having said that, Australians do enjoy an anti-hero, but also theres parity between ned kelly and say billy the kid.. it's much of a muchness.
Actually Australia made the first feature length film "The story of the kelly gang" in 1906... and for a while led the world in producing such films until other countries started in 1911..
my point in our countries youth is that 95% of other countries would laugh at either of us when talking about culture regardless of facts.. it's would be seen as like Australia and New Zealand arguing about military might and importance.

eRock

You do know that New Zealand isn't the US, right?

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eRock

America may be considered bullies...but then again, what are you gonna do about it?

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Lisa

Just wanted to point out that the Crocodile Hunter is a wanker and Foster's is Australian for cat's piss.

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eRock

Ain't that the trufus, rufus...

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Groove

I would never claim that all Americans are ignorant, or that the attitudes presented on this board are representative of the mainstream. I have been to the US several times, I have met Americans traveling overseas and I have close American friends. I was simply wondering aloud about the intelligence of the Americans who use ignorant statements to argue that they're not ignorant.

OK, you're mentioning Outback Steakhouse ironically and that's witty and appropriate But it's also another comment that I've read repeatedly on this board and it's generally used to illustrate how pathetic Australia is. When the reality is that Outback Steakhouse is an AMERICAN company! To the best of my knowledge there are no Outback Steakhouses in Australia. Most Australians who have not visited the USA would never have heard of Outback Steakhouse let alone been to one.

Every time Joes starts one of these anti-US threads there are numerous Americans who dive-in bashing Australia instead of bashing Joe and his arguments. Frankly I wouldn't object to a bit of Aussie-bashing if there were at least a hint of truth in the comments being made. There are plenty of criticisms that can be fairly leveled at my country. But in order to make them you'd need to know something more about Australia than what you've seen in a television commercial.

Look I'll even give the Aussie bashers some ammo...

Try criticising our treatment of refugees. Give us a ribbing about our convict heritage. Mention the phrase "tall poppies syndrome". Ask Joe why the Australian public watches more Hollywood films than they do Australian films. Have a go at our inability to reconcile with our indiginous population. Mention the fact that our Prime Minister sees us as the US's Deputy Sheriff in South East Asia. Have a laugh about Australia' naivety in being the second country (after the UK) to commit troops to George W's Iraqi crusade, and have an even bigger laugh about the fact that most Americans don't even know about that support or appreciate it!

That should get the ball rolling

And if you need more ammo just ask a New Zealander

JeremySF

You're preaching to the choir. :-) As I said, we all have some low elements in our culture. Likewise, given the age of our two countries, culturally it would be impossible to be even close to Europe. But, I'd say both Australia and the U.S. (and Canada) have contributed a lot to high culture...and a fairly remarkable amount given our short histories.

On the history of film....

I may be wrong, but I believe Thomas Edison created the first film strip in 1890. And wasn't the first feature film "The Great Train Robbery" in 1903?

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JeremySF

I stand corrected. I think the first public performance of a feature film was by Auguste and Antoine Lumiere.

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JeremySF

As I said, I would like to think that they were just taking the piss and knew what there was not a hint of truth in their criticism. But the fact the overwhelming majority of Americans think incredibly highly of Australia so rarely (if ever) do you hear any criticism about Australia. Consquently, people reacting to Joe don't have any fodder so they end up making stupid comments about Outback Steakhouse. I do remember reading that a few times thinking, god I hope they're kidding.

As far as the whole Foster's beer thing goes. Unless you've traveled with Aussies like I have you may not know that most Aussies think Foster's is piss. All most Americans see are these commercials that say Fosters: That's Australian for Beer, Mate. I'm sure you export more of that piss to the U.S. than you actually consume.

Quote:

Have a laugh about Australia' naivety in being the second country (after the UK) to commit troops to George W's Iraqi crusade, and have an even bigger laugh about the fact that most Americans don't even know about that support or appreciate it!

For the record, I've brought this fact up at least 3 or 4 times on this board. It is mentioned frequently in the U.S. news outlets that Australia committed just after the U.K., but I doubt people that get 100% of their news from GFY know that.

Cheers....I'm out for now, mate.

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Groove

Thanks for your comments Jeremy People like you who are capable of putting forward an intelligent argument are the ones who can effectively refute the sweeping generalisations made in these US-bashing threads.

However I'm a little less inclined than you to give these Aussie-bashers the benefit of the doubt. Basically I think that if certain Americans would stop chiming-in with ignorant comments about countries they've never visited, most of Joe's shit-stirring threads would be still born. By posting moronic and witless statements they're simply supporting and encouraging Joe's arguments.

Anyway I think it's time I went and did some work

Joe Sixpack

First feature length film ever produced was Australia's The Story of the Kelly Gang in 1906.

http://apc-online.com/twa/firsts.shtml

Joe Sixpack

Here ya go!

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html

CosmicKitten

Don't confuse consumerism with art.

Joe Sixpack

Exactly!

Agent White

Bah, anyone who starts a sentence with "I hate americans because..." is not worth listening to. The quality of a person has nothing to do with their mailing address.

That said, the US is a place of extremes. Extremely smart people. Extremely dumb people. Extremely rich people, extremely poor people. Extremely cute women, extremely fat men. Etc.

I'm Canadian. We have less extremes. Way more middle class. That's because of our taxes. The poor don't get too poor here, and the rich don't get too rich here. Very few "best in the world" universities, but no one as stupid as people from Kentucky.

The more subtle, educated american tourists usually go unnoticed. It's always the 400 lb "lets compare everything to how we do it in my home town" don't-mess-with-texas-t-shirt fried chicken land barges that stick out. This is because in other countries, idiots like this are too poor to travel. Fortunately.

All of you closet US bashers who read this thread, if you moved to the states at what point would you become ignorant and evil too? If you can't answer that question then you're a hypocrite.

escorpio

That's good to know. That means ANYONE who has not visited ALL regions of the U.S.A. has no right to pass judgment on the country. Why do I have to visit Australia to joke about your love of Chopper? I was bringing it up to illustrate the point that there is trash culture EVERYWHERE. The U.S.A. is not the only maker or exporter of garbage as Crocodile Dundee, Fosters and Kylie Minogue demonstrate.

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CDSmith

I enjoyed reading this post

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theking

"The Great Train Robbery (1903)".

http://www.filmsite.org/1903.html

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Joe Sixpack

Because unless you've visited a country you really know nothing about it. You know nothing about its culture, way of life or customs. You know nothing about the people. You know nothing about the landscape. Everything is just perception. Basically, you know nothing about Australia.

I've spent six months in the USA so I feel entitled to an opinion. When you've spent six months in Australia then maybe you'll be entitled to an opinion. But not before.

The fact that all you can mention is Crocodile Dundee, Fosters, Kylie Minogue and Chopper show that your only source of information on Australia is your own media. You simply don't have a clue.

Joe Sixpack

"Feature Length" means more than 60 minutes in duration.

The Great Train Robbery was 12 minutes long. It is a short film.

Groove

Huh? What the fuck are you talking about?

I have no problem with you making fun of Chopper! The Sydney Morning Herald article you quoted WAS making fun of Chopper, but the irony was apparently lost on you! Everyone who knows anything about Chopper makes fun of him... just not to his face

I totally agree that the US does not have a monopoly on trash culture. However I would definitely characterise the US as a World leader in that field

Anyway, your original post was NOT making fun of Chopper! Or if that was your intention I would like to recommend that you take some adult literacy courses

You said:

You were clearly implying that Australia has no culture! Which strikes me as a very bold statement to make about a country whos culture (or lack of) you have never experienced

escorpio

Everyone is entitled to an opinion (they are like assholes) based on their experiences and perceptions. I know Australians are generally more well travelled than the average American. It seems to be encouraged in young adults and probably stems from location(if you want to see much of anything, you have to leave the rock) and penal colony heritage(hey, it's O.K. to leave if you want!). But idiots can also travel. This point has been brought up by U.S.-bashers when bringing up "The Ugly American" stereotype. This notion that travel automatically makes one more intelligent by osmosis is rather amusing. Youth hostel travel being especially lame,as is traveling in pairs or groups. real travel is done solo, in my opinion. I mean I have heard shit like "...and then we went to Guadalajara and stayed at the hostel and and partied with some German chicks!" From a group of four guys traveling together. Do you see what I'm getting at? Sometimes travel can be rather insular and not too enlightening if not done right. Unless you have travelled the entire U.S.A.(a huge country with major regional differences) you don't know as much as you think you do and your perceptions are still largely media driven. Even if that media was absorbed at a youth hostel in San Francisco.

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Juggernaut

From what I've read in this post, and not pointing fingers... but, if you have not been to a country you're complaining about, you have no right hitting the reply button.

I think most of what is typed on here, is nothing more than some churned out second rate information about a country... it possibly comes from third party information, or some glorified media article about a specific event in that country.

Most of what I have read is pure rhetoric, most of what people say on this board, does not come from their own eyes or ears... most of what is said is made up, anything that will make their position sound better.

I've lived in the US, and I have to say, it's nothing like you see on TV, and it is nothing like what is represented on this forum. People love to hype things up, people love to make something far more grand than it actually is, this is very true with American people.

I fell in love with America the first time I went there, and it had nothing to do with their economy. Although competitive, and even though this "freedom" thing you hear about; is all blown out of proportion, the country truly has some great people and places.

I can also speak for Australia, I live here most of the time, and if it were not for the distance, most Americans would call it their second home, not for it's similarities, but for it's differences.

Joe Sixpack

1. I have NEVER stayed at a youth hostel in the USA. It has always been with inlaws or with friends.
2. You are lecturing me on travel? Man, in the last five years I have spent a year overseas on the road. I have visited 25 countries (not including my own). Do NOT tell me how to travel unless you have done more of it than me.
3. Youth hostel travel is not especially lame. It is far superior to staying at hotels where you never meet anyone. Other travellers are your best source of information i.e. Where to go, where to avoid etc. They are also usually fun to hang out with.
4. I almost always travel by myself (unless you count other travellers I meet along the way)
5. Australia is also a huge country with major regional differences. Remember, Australia is as big as the continental USA.

escorpio

O.K., Joe, I apologize for my presumption but I have never met an Aussie on the road who wasn't accompanied by his mates from home. It's cool you enjoy solo travel also. I know a lot of people wouldn't consider it. As for hotels vs. hostels, in Mexico you just have to seek out the hotels that cater to nationals. They are very friendly and it's easy to meet locals and other travelers who hate the overpriced uptight tourist hotels. I travel by bus because I fucking HATE flying and only do it when absolutely necessary. Can't help but meet other travelers that way.Australia matches the U.S. in size, but is it really as culturally diverse? A sincere question I have wondered about - Is bilingualism encouraged in Australia the way it is in Europe? Spanish is becoming a begrudging reality here in the U.S. esp. in the S.W. Being an isolated English speaking island is language education a "why bother?" or encouraged (like travel seems to be) as a way to experience culture?

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bhutocracy

It's encouraged - we learn Japanese and Bahasa Indonesia the same way an english person might learn french - but I doubt it's to the same extent.. all kids in government junior highs do those languages, but i'd guess once they're electives in senior years there isn't the same pressure to learn it as the cultures don't mix as much as europe or the americas.. It can't be compared as easily as a different languaged populatoin isn't an hours drive away.

Joe Sixpack

Most Aussies only speak English. Although these days kids at primary school get more of a chance to start picking up the basics of another language than I did at primary school in the 1970's. Australia borders no other country and this is the heart of the problem. When you share no borders with people who speak other languages what's the point of learning a foreign language?

With regard to hostels, as far as I am concerned it's the ONLY way to travel. People who stay at hostels have very little money and you learn the most amazing money saving tricks from them. I rarely spend more than US$50 a day when travelling (and that includes accomodation). Some people cook their own food at hostels. People REALLY socialize at hostels. I've travelled in a group of twelve people representing nine different nationalities. Travelling on the cheap is the only way that sort of stuff happens. People at hostels are more real, more open and more friendly. I find hotels cold, impersonal and distant.

Travelling is an obsession with me. The only thing that will stop me is lack of money or death. I have been all the way around the globe twice and hope to go for a third round-the-world trip soon.

Groove

Lot's of Australians travel alone, I certainly have.

There are significant regional differences, but they're not nearly as pronounced as in the US.

Multilingualism is encouraged, but the trick is which other language/s do you learn? And when will you get an opportunity to speak them? For example, I learned German at school but haven't spoken it in more than a decade. Australia has immigrants from a vast variety of countries, so there are wide variety of cultural influences and many people are multi-lingual, but English is the only language that's universal.

escorpio

Interesting. That's why I asked because the U.S. has always seemed to have an attitude about Spanish, like WE were an isolated country despite the shared border but it's becoming so culturally entrenched in the southwest whether you like it or not, you're gonna learn some Spanish!

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bhutocracy

the point is the amount of business we do with Japan..
although the main reason why I learnt a little german is because of my family heritage... but i've lost most of it unfortunately..