Snowden is a hero.

you know what...wake up people...and i dont know if some people here on this forum are just playing devil's advocate or are just "useful idiots"...so called....

btw. Snowden wanted full public debate, now we got it :1orglaugh

its hard to cover it under carpet as EU govs were spied too (by US gov) and now its leaked...

I just have bad feeling that they(Eu govs) will only go to Washington to ask how they can spy on their (EU) citizens with the same success rate as it was doing NSA and GCHQ....

British gov guys detached David Miranda(greenwald's partner) at the airport few months ago, Greenwald said after that that it will not stop him to publish leaks and he will be even more determined to publish it....hahaha and here we got it now :-)

and I like what J. Appelbaum (that guy working for TOR and member of cult of dead cow hacking group) said on his twitter:
"A no-spy pact between Europe and the United States is worthless - the #NSA respects nothing except the complexity of mathematics. Go dark!"

the same goes with other countries' gov agencies...not only NSA...if they will have possibility to spy, they will (and they have it, not to mention that people willingly post all info on themselves on facebook etc.)...so the only solution to privacy is cryptography :) (and common sense)

he didn't even know what he had. you think he read all that and wanted public debate on shit like merkel's phone?

pfft. again, snowden's not smart. he's a snoop.


yapping about tweets from people who think their smart with tweets like "no-spy pacs won't work" only shows your naivete.

aGAIN- this isn't going to result in less snooping, it's going to result in much more.

so you can make this about snowden being a hero all you want, and specifically about the nsa and you can't stop them but what this did is open the doors for the world to snoop even more. it's go time.

YAY SNOWDEN

It's the idealism of the youthful. You can't tell them anything. They just have to grow up and learn it for themselves. There is no shortcut to experience.

The same guys that are crying about the NSA learning about their lives have no issue with getting a drivers license, credit cards, medical treatment..etc..etc.etc.
In 10 seconds flat any retailer in the US can pull your complete credit history.
If you've been in the military they already know most everything they'll ever need to know.

its different thing, as this data is given by user in comply with his will (user gives that data and he is aware of it), not snooped/spyed...
and i'm not from usa :)

If you are an American and have a pulse, being snooped on is common knowledge. J Edgar Hoover had massive amounts of information on many thousands of people 50 years ago.
If you file a tax return, you have given the IRS a roadmap of your life. If you have children in public schools. The list of info gathering is enormous.

The only way around it would be to live by yourself in a cabin in the hills of Montana.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

dude...the US government is almost impossible to insult :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

how funny is it that a country founded by traitors condemns traitors? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

ill tell you: very funny! :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

former head of French intelligence Bernard Squarcini sounded surprised at the claims that the political class did not know about the snooping.

?I am amazed by such disconcerting naiveté. You?d almost think our politicians don?t bother to read the reports they get from the intelligence services,? he told French newspaper Le Figaro. ?The Americans spy on French commercial and industrial interests, and we do the same to them because it?s in the national interest to protect our companies.?

So while Merkel may be outraged by allegations that the NSA listened in on her conversations, and monitored millions more, she shouldn?t be surprised, according to Professor Antony Glees, director of the Centre for Security and Intelligence Studies at Britain's University of Buckinghamshire.

?This is par for the course,? he said. ?Countries eavesdrop on other countries. If you have Angela Merkel?s telephone number you will listen in to it if you can.?

If your purpose in life is to insult the US, you are failing badly.
You act more like the board jester. You and the org-laugh and pornstar 69 and his GIANT TEXT POSTS.. You've done well in life. :thumbsup

Good article, when you consider there have been spy planes since the 1950's, satellites since the 70's..serious internet encryption since the 90's you've got wonder how people can be shocked that there is information gathering going on.

Here's a tip, don't phone or email about ebola, bombs, viruses..etc

as you know, it's all political posturing, the media globs onto to it and then the anti-usa gfy mob takes it from there.

and it is a sad fact then.

like I said before - filling papers to IRS, signing up to some service is giving your data according to your will...being spyed is different thing and it is illegal (well, at least in my country).
it is a sad fact that "young" people have to explain that to "older" people...privacy is basic human right, not privilege...unless it is different in USA like it was different in Stasi's East germany (and few other countries too :), but not on such scale) )

read carefully snowden leaks, nobody in NSA does user-targetting by keywords...now they collect everything

what nation do you live in? you also have special privacy facebook, twitter, email, google, internet, isp, cel phone, etc?

There is a reason older people rule the world. There really is nothing a young person can tell me that I probably don't already know. Perspective is everything. I think speed limits on the roads are silly. Yet for the most part I follow them. I think that if a person wants to smoke pot they should be able to.etc...

There is shit going on everywhere,e very minute of the day that someone doesn't like or feels is fair. That's life. I have learned that getting pissed off about things I have no control over is a complete waste of time.

And we are all still doing actually what we want to do, when we want to do it.

If someone wants to read my emails or listen to my calls I just need to consider that when I call or email people. Frankly, I don't care even a little that the NSA has a file on me. THey are just another of the long list of businesses and government organizations that do.

dynam_mo is absolutely wrong in that nothing changed as a result of Snowdens actions. (sorry buddy :) )

One thing certainly changed that very day. That is that every intelligence agency in the world revisited Rule Number One: "Don't Get Caught" and modified their policies and procedures to make sure they don't have a similar incident.

Some of you people, particularly Europeans are so fucking naive about how the world works when it comes to matters of state intelligence, that its gone past amusing and right into scary.

The only thing that is different about the US and say Iceland or Iran or any other nation is capability, not the desire, will and determination to do the same.

And pretending Snowden's outing of documents somehow led to some sort of revelation is pathetically stupid. From Echelon to Carnivore to Omnivore to to every other wide scale gathering of data THAT EQUALLY INVOLVED EU NATIONS AND THEIR ACTIVE PARTICIPATION that has been happening for decades, is nothing new. It's all just more of the same. As is the one other constant in intelligence as we witness now in the news... the feigned, self righteous indignation expressed by politicians, when it goes wrong.

Nothing will change.

Intelligence is as older than civilization itself and a vital component to the functioning and enduring success of a state. Intelligence agencies have to operate in the dark because those they protect are exceedingly naive and ignorant and have a very imperfect understanding of the scale and scope of the threats a large nation, be they political, economic or military/security which they must deal with.

i can certainly go back and find my post that stated "rest assured that an nsa team was assigned to this to make sure no more bugs are found".

i.e., the changes are that it is going deeper and more widespread, again, something i posted at least once in this thread alone

sorry buddy. :)

You just glommed(SP?) that off my *sneakier* post! :winkwink:

dang, you too! i think i stated this back on page 1, maybe page 2. i guess i'll have to drag it up! :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

post #79 :winkwink:

:1orglaugh

generally we do. (in theory). you always have the right to modify, view and change your personal data collected by some commercial service (like signing up for example to travel agency and booking there trip, or signing up to bookstore etc. etc.

like I said - in theory. I heard that in USA also exists can-spam email acts, yet USA is one of most spammed and spamming countries....

well we are one step in the right direction. I am not sure why you feel everyone thinks him as a 'hero' for no reason.

Whistleblowing IS the reason. and yes, that is possible to occur even without the presence of 'good'

and to the moron who feels that russia has a 'sordid' history.. highly amusing that our whistleblower uncovering massive government spying and intimidation, would be discredited by being exiled to such a 'not free' country...

ahhh...post 14 :)

i don't mind when anyone doesn't mind the things the NSA does - i do though

and i am happy that we (the public) know more now than some months ago and I wish to thank Snowden for that

and fyi dynamo i dont use facebook, twitter and I use encryption and anon services while using google :1orglaugh

can you imagine that ;-)

drat! :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

cool, again, in which nation do you claim citizenship?

there is a reason that most of revolutions are made by young people......

i get your point...i just argue here on this forum as i dont have anything to do better now...
but the point is: you wont change my view and probably i wont change yours. I just feel sad for people who thinks that Snowden is traitor.... like someone said before: ideal useful idiots for goverment, brainwashed...
i'm sorry for this personal attack to all good guys, peace :)

it is secret :>....its not in North America though :)

i've never said snowden is a traitor.

i've said he's a not smart snoop who is not a hero.

i see. so you come to argue about usa freedom - point your finger and such, then hide where you live.

classic gfyer.

actually I said the US government is almost impossible to insult :1orglaugh I actually agree that I fail in insulting the US gov no matter what I write :1orglaugh

cant help but find humor in the fact that a traitor founded country like the USA, condemns people who release truthful documents, as traitors whilst spying on the whole world :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

the mental gymnastics are olympic :1orglaugh

your government is a corrupt lying spying floor mop...you know it is...

we are not talking about usa freedom, but on freedom in general.... actually spying that NSA was doing was directed on abroad countries. and I know that other agencies from other countries do the same thing...and we need more whistleblowers like ES ;-) from each country :)

this isn't a step in the right direction, it's where i've been all along.

sure whistleblowing is a reason and obviously nothing good other than the reveal itself is coming from it

and that is exactly my point about why snowden is not a hero. he didn't do anything great, he didn't do anything brave. nothing good is resulting from what he did. no one is better off now. and even more importantly, several things are worse.

what would be "smart" thing to do for him ? continue his work for 200k year and "sleep well" ?
go to media in usa and wait for "honest" proccess ? it was smart thing to do what de done, as he wants to live too...

like every goverment.....

well, we all know this is not true. but let's say it is, it makes your comments look even less genuine.

awareness of people is bigger and there is public debate, so he did what he wanted...

what you said, it doesnt value that much as argument..as there is no argument there...

eot from me, i go to watch movie :)

Touche' on the revolution statement..

I am the same, I am in the office today,reviewing year end financials..and frankly it is BORING with capital B... As far as Snowden being a traitor, I just think he is a kid who thought he will make the world a better place. And all he really did is screw up his world for himself.

Back in the early 70's there were these fellows that exploded an ANFO bomb at the Army math research center here in Madison. 2 brothers(Armstrongs) and 2 other friends(David Fine & Leo Burt). They did that to demonstrate against the war in Vietnam. However, they didn't know that a student was busy working in the building at the time and he was killed.

Eventually, 3 of the 4 were caught and went to jail. The building was repaired,the dead student memorialized. Yet the war went on for nearly 5 more years. It ended when the powers in charge decided they wanted it ended.

At the end of the day, the 4 men succeeded only in killing an innocent student and messing up their own lives.

how would i know what the smart thing is for a snoop who lied to get a job then breached his job boundaries to snoop on the snoops then ran away to china, clinging to 99% of the documents, then on to another human-rights violating nation where he then used all the documents he had as a bargaining chip in his *safety*?

we dont have a government :1orglaugh if we pick the wrong guys US gov democratically bomb us, so we have the guys your government supports :thumbsup technically speaking its the remote US corporate government acting like they are our government :1orglaugh...as are the governments of the surrounding regions...US installed...

its nice to actually have your own government like germany or russia...

So what's your point? I am not my government. I voted.

But you must realize that people like Obama are transient. They come they go. The people with names no one knows that are entrenched for years in government are the ones that really are the powerbase.

again, what he wanted has made things worse. i mean rly, who gives a shit what a fucking snoop wants? public debate? what's to debate? nothign about the reveal is being debated, many already know govs spy on each other/

what is being debated is whether or not snowden is a hero. and really, are we really that desperate for heroes in 2013 that we have to find an ex-snoop who ran away and used the documents as a bargaining chip in his safety as a hero?

isn't that kinda sad? that there are no better heroes?

Might not even be wise to post about it. :( :uhoh


:party-smi