Then you are traitors.

if they read them 1 at a time i'd be ok with that, but bulk reading- no.

yeah! one at a time is ok so they understand the exact context of them mails I be sending! bulk reading is not ok!! we need to start a petition :mad::mad:

now look who profited from 9/11, what changed in politics and you will get point....

i have the sneaky suspicion you are about to be intellectually dominated. i'd buckle up.

I agree. :thumbsup

the dude is a 100% hero, thanks to him we all know how dirty the US gov is towards their own people and their partners. This guy should get a Nobel prize

by you ?

you already proved yourself in many posts here :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

yes, i've proven common sense. and that i think a hero does something heroic and valuable. not destuctive and cowardly

you've proven you fall for conspiracy thoeories and think a coward that has done absolutely nothing good for anything or anybody is someone you look up to.

got it.

hero
: a person who is admired for great or brave acts or fine qualities

there is nothing great about snowden, he was a snoop who snooped on snoops.

there is nothing brave in snowden. he stole shit and ran for safe haven in communist countries that are historically human rights violators and then used 95% of what he stole as a bargaining chip in his *safety*.

there are no fine qualities about snowden. snowden is a snoop who lied to get a snoop job, went beyond his job boundaries to access the data he stole and then ran away.


nevermind the fact he has done more damage than good, he's not a hero by definition.

Bullshit!

He is a patriot and certainly a hero. If there had been more people like him the USA might not have been sold out and become the pathetic joke that it has become.

WAKE UP - the rest of the world is learning the truth and they are pissed!

and you fall for bull...it ;-)

despite Snowden's good intentions some people and some govs could be actually happy from Trust Crisis on EU-USA or South America- USA... (well, S.America actually never had to trust USA that much ;-), so...)
this is politics...and this is repercussion of Snowden leaks...
each gov is spying, I only hope that public debate started and more and more people will start using cryptography and be more concious of net privacy and so on :)

i'll ask again,

what good has snowden done?

just 1 thing even.

name 1 single good thing that has resulted from what snowden did.

he explosed that the US Gov is spying on their own citizens
he exposed the NSA is spying on all their partners and this is pretty intense and big
he showed that the US Gov is doing this just to collect info to gain more power/knowledge

he risks his own life to come out with this info, not many people do that

my question is not what he did, but what good came from it.

we all are quite familiar with the expose, what good has come from that?

he didn't risk his life. well, up until he ended up in russia he didn't risk his life. if he had any brains, he would have been able to learn that his nsa snoopy colleagues before him who exposed the nsa are still alive and well and living their lives in their own homes in the usa.

the results are not good, think that the good old US lost some credibility

everybody loses. don't get me wrong. the expose was bad news. i get that. i also separate the message from the messenger, the message can be important and the messenger can still be a dolt.

but watch, this will cause a bigger embracing of snooping. more nations will snoop deeper and broader and tech will *progress* with even more snoopiary devices that are cloaked, hidden, not known, wtfever.

this is not going to cause snoops to throw-away all their fancy tech, very very much the opposite.

the only ones who he is destructive against are the people who suppress your freedom. And you are defending these people. It boggles my mind how a citizen (you) is defending a privacy invading, big brother police state who steps on your freedom like it's dogshit on a sidewalk. Think it's time to wake up now.

i defy you to find 1 post i've ever made defending what you said.

again, just 1.

you snowden fanbois get so blown away by the rotor wash of this that you choose not to even read.

it's just more proof that many of you can't think in terms of complex processes.

Sorry to say but you see it wrong, the totally trust in the US went from X to zero, atleast that is what you hear/feel here in Europe. I hope it will not affect the US economy since we all know that JP and CN are keeping the US on live support

i don't see shit wrong. since when is total trust of the usa in europe going from x to zero a good thing?

it's not. for anyone. economic meetings between nations have already been canceled due to this.

that's what i keep stating- nothing good came from this, not 1 single thing.

what good came from it?

the world finally took note of the massive illegal spying that was going on?

talk about a fucking easy one. jesus.

again, how is that good?

how is taking note of the fact that the nsa snooped merkel's phone good?

Pig shit. There has been military...industrial...scientific and medical spying...the eintireity of every ones life on this earth...by every nation that has the ability to spy. Persons from various countries are periodically caught and those on the receiving end squawk loudly for as long as they can then the squawking slowly goes away and it is back to business as usual. Actually it is not really back to business as the spying neverr stops.

note to self:

nsa snooped merkel's phone


got it. now what.

check my phone for bug/ not call merkel? complain on adult forum?

if it were good you all would not be talkig about it on your isp-provided internet, facebooking it to friends, googling it on goog, emailing, texting, chatting, icquing, tweeting, etc.

you would value your privacy and take responsibility for it by shutting down the access points the snoops use.

no, it's business as usuall for the snoops, moreso now, rest assured, there's been a team assigned to making sure no other bugs on dignitaries are discovered

and it's business as usual for the rest of us who us all the tech the tech use to snoop on us.

let's at least be honest about that.

how is it good that all the illegal spying on reporters, dissidents, local leaders, world leaders, has become 'mainstream news'?

may you do me a favour? you mind explaining how that's bad?

the only positive thing is that we know what dirty games are being played

Nobel prize are for war mongers now ...

But he did get this :

look, i am not saying we were all better not knowing things like merkel;s cell phone and 60 million spainards were snooped in 1 month. i am saying that looking at this in hindsight, we are all not better now that we know. more importantly, as a consequence, the nsa has replied to it all by stating unequivocally that they snoop and they will continue to, no changes. obama has come out and said the nsa is well and good. no legislation reigning in the nsa has passed nor have any bills of any real consequence been introduced.

i don't see why people feel the need to argue those facts, just to cling to thinking snowden is a hero? that makes no sense. we all need to realize that nothing good is resulting from this.

i'm not trying to be right here, i'd very much like to be wrong, that's why i've asked 3x what good has resulted. i would in fact like something good to come from this.

So revealing wholesale violations of the 4th amendment (not to mention the 1st & 5th) is "betraying your country"? And the perpetrators (ie NSA etc, Clapper, Alexander etc) AREN'T???

Authoritarians in power make me :disgust:Oh crap

Authoritarian shills, dupes & apologists just make me :1orglaugh

Edward Snowden's legal defense fund site is now running. It'll get some bucks from me. http://freesnowden.is/

free snowden? from what? snowden's legal defense fund? for what?

are you really sending money to a legal defense fund for snowden?

He did? When? Where? Links?

So Snowden exposed the NSA... Doing it's job? That's exactly what the NSA does.

Isn't that... What our government is supposed to do? I mean, if someone or some country is plotting an attack against the US, don't we want to the US Government to find out about it before it happens?

And flees to Russia? Do they even have freedom of the press there?

So you really expect after massive revelations like this, that (relatively) OVERNIGHT the Govt is gonna come out and say "Yeah, we did it. It was wrong. We massively violated the constitution. We're sorry. We'll stop right away." Could anyone possibly be that naive?

He did risk his life. And he went to one of the two countries in the world that 1) aren't hardcore allies who would gladly give him up and 2) even the US wouldn't fuck with in terms of violating their sovereignty for an assassination or capture attempt. Had he gone to Ecuador, he'd already be dead or in US custody.

You obviously know nothing about how previous whistleblowers (who tried to do it through official channels) are treated. Their lives become a living hell. Fired, smeared, blackballed and even jailed. Power doesn't like being called on its shit.

Google Thomas Drake (former senior exec at NSA) and educate yourself a little bit.

Fuckin' wow.

Ok, here's a crapload: http://www.theguardian.com/world/the-nsa-files

To make it easy for ya, I picked out some key ones
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...on-court-order
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...iants-nsa-data
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...nce-programmes
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ithout-warrant
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...thorised-obama
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...am-online-data


It's completely irrelevant to this discussion, as is their shitty human rights record. They have no control over the publishing of these documents. None.

Fucking this ^^^^^

I'm not going to argue tit for tat.

The first article talks about telephone data. The phone companies themselves (as well as Facebook and Google) deny this is happening. Are they listening on conversations - seems not. At the same time if any of this is true, they have a warrant so no laws have been broken.

So in short...
- The companies involved deny this.
- The NSA isn't listening in on phone calls.
- They seem to have a warrant for what they are doing.

On top of this, the website you mention gives conflicting information - the first article says they have a warrent, yet this link says they don't: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ithout-warrant

So which is it?

I still believe that everyone is jumping on the bandwagon here. Everyone thinks the NSA is running hog wild, yet there is very little evidence of any illegal activity.

What good came from Snowden pulling back the curtain and exposing the illegal intrusive and deceptive spying that the government was/is doing?

Simple...very simple...truth is always it's own reward. Reality is always better even if it shows something you personally would rather not see/know.

So the simple fact that Snowden revealed the truth is the good in this.

Hope that answers the question you have asked 3 times sir.

snowden didn't risk jack shit, i googled thomas drake back in fucking june when snowden first stole the documents.

here's what i found:

can you read that? THOMAS DRAKE WAS NOT CHARGED WITH ANY FELONIES AND IS A FREE MAN LIVING IN THE USA.

IN FACT, NO ONE EVER HAS SUFFERED SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES FROM EXPOSING THE NSA-







so, sure thing, there's your google facts on thomas drake.





/

yeah, i appreciate the answer and on the surface i can see where you are coming from, but reality has nothing to do with a truth revelation being its own reward.

I'll just say I believe you're being willfully ignorant and leave it at that for now. The floor is yours.

Your fact-checking is for shit. Drake was was originally not just charged, but indicted on 10 felony counts. http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2010/04/doj041510.html

Your picking and choosing is obvious. Fired, smeared & blackballed is a part of every intel community whistleblowers' experience. Of course you ignored that part in your reply. Drake and other intelligence community whistleblowers have documented their experiences.

you obviously have no idea what indicted means.
in·dict
:
formally accuse of or charge with a serious crime.

fired from the nsa? dude, he was a whistleblower, that means you don't get to keep your job.

drake has not been smeared and has received awards and accolades

i'm not picking and choosing jack shit, i clearly posted a quote that shows that every single nsa whistle blower and more were not found guilty.

again, for the hard of reading::::

On June 9, 2011, all 10 original charges against him were dropped. Drake rejected several deals because he refused to "plea bargain with the truth". He eventually pled to one misdemeanor count for exceeding authorized use of a computer;[10] Jesselyn Radack of the Government Accountability Project, who helped represent him, called it an act of "civil disobedience."[11]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/0...ke-Prosecution

here's more on drake being blackballed and smeared:


Drake appeared on The Daily Show on August 6, 2012, to talk about the history of his case,[62] and in September sent an audio message of support to CryptoParty.[63]

On March 15, 2013, Drake spoke at a National Press Club Luncheon about the national intelligence community and its attitude towards whistle-blowing.video


Drake has become an activist against the surveillance state, frequently giving interviews and speaking at events such as Restore the Fourth.[67]

One of the themes of his speeches and interviews is a "privacy exercise" as follows "Put your entire life in a box, your documents, bank accounts, your passwords, everything -- and give it to a complete stranger -- a fellow American for safekeeping. Would you do it?" he states that he has yet to encounter a "yes."[68]

In a September 2013 interview Drake re-affirmed his belief that the problems of the NSA are so chronic and systemic that the only solution would be to completely dismantle and subsequently rebuild the entire organization.[69

again, stated another way, for the dense:

In early June, the government dropped all of the charges against Drake and agreed not to seek any jail time in return for Drake's agreement to plead guilty to a misdemeanor of misusing the agency’s computer system. Drake was sentenced to one year of probation and community service.

i've been thinking about this still and have to say i was wrong earlier.

this is a good thing. hard to see, takes some thinking, but in the end, i have to agree.

:)