Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19745028)

A person should be paid according to their skill level. Not one penny more. Unskilled labor should be paid accordingly. Skilled labor should be rewarded accordingly.

Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 19745035)

If the minimum wage went to $38,000 the unemployment numbers would soar.

75% of all new jobs are created by small business. 50% of all workers are employed by small businesses. Most small businesses would fail or never get launched if entry level jobs started at such an absurd figure.

All your boarder line restaurant franchises as well as mom&pop locations would fold. So would a large percentage of franchised McDonalds.

But hey, some dumb 18 year old mother of 2 would be making $38,000 a year selling $10. Big Macks to a declining cliental. Wonderful.


.

Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 19745050)

"you can only charge what the market will bear" EXACTLY!! And if your cost of doing business is higher that your profit margins guess what? You close the the store, everyone is out of a job.

Ever do business projections Tony? Ever own a retail store? Ever try and plug in $38,000 as a starting wage in a service oriented business and see a positive bottom line?

Impossible. A dream. American consumers won't pay for it.


.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 19745117)

The overall theory is that if McDonald's paid $20/hr other fast food places and low wage places like Walmart would be forced to do the same. Then since those people would be making more money they would have a higher standard of living and those of them that are currently also collecting some kind of government aid like food stamps, housing assistance, health insurance, daycare help etc would no longer need it or need as much of it. This would lower the government's costs and thus lower taxes. In the end you might have to pay a small amount more for the things you buy, but the tax savings would more than offset it.

The problem with the theory is that the government never really lowers taxes. They would just find other ways to spend that money so we would end up at the same tax rate while also paying more for many goods and services. This would then leave us with only the hope that these overall higher wages made for a better economy where everyone made more money and were better off, but I have yet to see any real evidence that this would actually happen.

In the end, sure, these places could pay a lot more (I read a few years ago that Walmart could double most of their employees pay and only have to raise their prices by about 1.5%-2% to cover the cost), but it doesn't appear that these thing really have a large, overall benefit to the economy as a whole.

Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 19745456)

Exactly.

However, that does not even get into the REAL COST to the business. Just because some Mcwebmaster makes minimum wage, that does not represent the ACTUAL COST to that business. There is a lot of additional expense for any one worker that most never factor in. If you provide a worker with vacation time, health or other benefits, insurance, workman's comp, taxes, uniforms, whatever.

The point being, all of that is an additional cost to the business over and above the hourly wage expense to one working employee. It seems that when people are throwing around these numbers, they somehow always forget all of these other expenses and cost to the business for this worker. I can assure you it's much higher than their hourly wage.

If a $10.00/hour (over minimum wage) is getting health benefits of any kind from their employer, especially if they have a family, they are truly making more like $15.00+ an hour as a TRUE COST to that business once you break down the cost of health policy over their hours worked. Add in vacation and personal days off, and the rest that each worker represents in TRUE COST and it blows a lot of these numbers out of the water.

When does it end? We need to provide these people $20.00/hour jobs for flipping McBurgers, provide them outfits, health insurance, paid leave, workman's comp, 401k unti the cost to the business is $40-50/hour per worker?!?!?! How much more per big mac will the consumer be willing to pay to achieve this?

:disgust

Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 19745482)

making $100 per hour to bolt on car fenders worked pretty good for the car manufactures didn't it?

Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 19745492)

no one made $100 an hour bolting on car fenders. I worked on the line for gm in 84. The car businesses had problems not because of unions like your favorite pundits say. It was poor management at the top. They made cars the consumer didnt want. Ford is union and is doing fine, they were never in trouble.Without a middle class there is no porn business. its that simple. And with people cheering pay them as little as possible when each walmart store costs the tax payer 900k gov programs because they pay them shit. They use you to profit. That's corporate welfare. Now you got a problem with the person on welfare buying cigarettes and beer and having an iphone. But the company costs you billions that's fine. lol

Originally Posted by bushwacker (Post 19745491)

Well you can certainly tell in this thread who has, or had owned a small business, and who hasn't. :2 cents:

Originally Posted by bushwacker (Post 19745491)

Well you can certainly tell in this thread who has, or had owned a small business, and who hasn't.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 19745516)

kids I see these days are lazy fucks too because of Mommy and Daddy putting them on a pedestal and telling them constantly that their shit doesn't stink. So hard work never enters their blood stream.

Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 19745519)

society is lowering the bar for those that don't take personal responsibility to make themselves valuable in the marketplace.

Originally Posted by $5 submissions (Post 19744997)

Well, it has a racial element when BECAUSE OF MINIMUM WAGE LAWS, young people with no skills can't be hired. If you are young and have no skills, your output is probably not worth the minimum wage and mandatory benefits and other expenses related to employing you. So, you don't get hired. Most of the guys who suffer this are *DISPROPORTIONATELY* BLACK and ethnic minorities. ABOLISHING MINIMUM WAGE LAWS would do more for racial progress in America than all of Al Sharpton's divisive BS. Indeed, it was labor unions who pushed for minimum wage laws to protect union workers from the low wage price competition of African-Americans. See below for more info:

Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 19745519)

Flipping burgers used to be a part time job for teens that gave them extra money and served as an example of why they needed to have a good education or trade. Not a way to support a family.

Again, society is lowering the bar for those that don't take personal responsibility to make themselves valuable in the marketplace.

Originally Posted by PornoMonster (Post 19745622)

Sounds good, but everything else will slide to the correct price, thus making it .... You make the same %...

If you set Min wage at X amount, guess what you are still the Bottom, and once EVERYTHING YOU buy increases the small X amount suggested, guess what, the money is back to the TOP of the Stock Holders and Businesses....

I guess you can keep it local, ma and pop stores, and also the local Drug Dealers, which now will charge more..

Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 19745476)

the biggest hurdle to owning and operating a small business is surviving the taxes the first few years.. . I know the first 2 years I was in business taxes lifted almost every penny of my cash surplus :2 cents:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19745613)

Saw a guy on the news late last night saying that there are 3 million TRADE jobs available in the U.S. right now. But people aren't qualified to take them.

He said that Caterpillar is practically begging for qualified heavy engine mechanics right now. Pay STARTS in the $40,000 + range. After 2 years you can be making $120,000 a year.

But there aren't enough trained people who went to a vocational "tech" school as opposed to a university to fill those positions.

And the irony is that vo-tech schools are really cheap and easy to get in.

He also pointed out that people who learn "trades" can't be "outsourced". You can't outsource that mechanic to China. You can't outsource a plumber that comes to your home to fix a leak (and if you've hired one lately then you KNOW they make great money).

If people don't want to work an entry level fast food job that is designed for high school kids...there are options to become a SKILLED laborer and learn a trade and make a great living.

Also...everyone over 18 should start voting and get rid of all these lifetime politicians who are magically rich while the country goes to hell and nobody can find a good job...and even if they do they get taxed almost half of everything they make (sales, local, state, fed)

Originally Posted by PornoMonster (Post 19745629)

Exactly, and if you Hire someone... Wow the taxes you have to pay..

Now I know why there are so many independent contractors and people pay that way only...

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 19745516)

I worked at McDonalds as a kid, the majority of the people I worked with fit into two categories:

A) Kid in high school that needed a job with flexible hours
B) Adult that didn't or barely finished High School and didn't do shit with their lives

In most cases the workers from A were the ones that actually worked the hardest. Now, of course, this was 20+ years ago, and many kids I see these days are lazy fucks too because of Mommy and Daddy putting them on a pedestal and telling them constantly that their shit doesn't stink. So hard work never enters their blood stream.

With all of this said there was an article posted back in march that has resonated with me since I first read it back then.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickunga...t-you-pay-for/

Harold Myerson writes in a terrific piece published in today?s WashPo?

?One lesson that emerges from the experience of low-end retailers is that putting workers in crummy, low-wage jobs tends to yield crummy service as well. McDonald?s earnings have fallen, the Wall Street Journal reports, and a management webcast to franchise owners acknowledged that customer dissatisfaction is rising in part because ?service is broken.? Myerson adds, ?Some of the most successful retailers follow a different path. As MIT management professor Zeynep Ton argued in Harvard Business Review last year, Costco and Trader Joe?s pay their workers far more than many of their competitors, offer their employees opportunities for promotion and enjoy markedly lower worker turnover and far higher sales per employee than their low-road counterparts. Sales per employee at Costco are nearly double that at Sam?s Club.(emphasis added)?

One of those things that makes you go hmmmm...

Originally Posted by bushwacker (Post 19745491)

Well you can certainly tell in this thread who has, or had owned a small business, and who hasn't. :2 cents:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 19745635)

Originally Posted by woj (Post 19745642)

some McDonalds actually outsourced drive through order taking to a call center in a different state... next logical step is to outsource it to India... :2 cents:

[http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/11/te...nted=all&_r=0]

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis (Post 19745447)

So your whole economic experience comes from eating chicken at KFC today...what a special gift you have. Are you also able to solve your towns infrastructure issues by peering your head out of your moms trailer?

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis (Post 19745633)

I saw the same guy a few weeks ago saying the same thing. The gist of it was that kids these days don't think its cool to go to a trade school or to work those types of jobs and from what I've seen I agree. Kids these days are so narcissistic they all think they're going to be famous or that they'll make a million dollars a year playing video games.

Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 19745474)

Robbie most of these guys don't realize the amount of work it takes to move ahead, the guys pulling down big bucks that I know are working 80+ hours a week.. a big time CEO has his day slotted out in 15 min increments with meetings all day long, usually 12+ hour days...

my business took me years to set up at 80 hours a week plus... even now I don't really make that much. six figures is all ... day before yesterday I worked 4am until 10pm and only netted $1900... and almost 47.3% of that goes out to taxes.

so a guy working 40 hours a week serving up tacos, and not even very well, should have everything I've worked my ass of for... amazing

this theory that money somehow created itself and then was stolen by the rich and needs to be returned damn quick is what your seeing and the thought that a big screen TV is guaranteed on the constitution... :2 cents:

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19745707)

wait, so you try to zing me for sharing a funny& timely anecdotal one time experience that was made in jest, then you write this like you are some sort of expert.

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis (Post 19745760)

Exactly. And maybe today after you're finished helping your step dad change the alternator in his Ford LTD you can come back and tell us everything thats wrong with Detroit.

:1orglaugh

Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 19744738)

If you have never owned a small business employing minimum wage workers you don't realize most are over-paid at minimum wage.

Maybe the problem is under educated young females with children. Fix that PERSONAL problem before telling a business owner to help rectify their piss poor life decesions.

Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 19744738)

Maybe the problem is under educated young females with children. Fix that PERSONAL problem before telling a business owner to help rectify their piss poor life decesions.

Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 19745024)

Obviously some here have never owned a business employing minimum wage workers.

Listening to you is like having a virgin tell me how good a pussy feels.

Fucking hilarious.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19745623)

Rochard...I'd like a quarter pounder with cheese combo please. Make it large with coke to drink, and an apple pie as well. See ya at the drive up window. lol :)

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 19748650)

The Magical World Where McDonald's Pays $15 an Hour?

STORY HERE

Originally Posted by woj (Post 19745642)

some McDonalds actually outsourced drive through order taking to a call center in a different state... next logical step is to outsource it to India... :2 cents:

[http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/11/te...nted=all&_r=0]

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19748668)

Oh no.

We have a Panda Express with a drive through, and I can't do the drive through any more - I can't handle a Mexican trying to do Asian food in broken English with a Spanish accent... At least not without laughing.

Originally Posted by Buncha (Post 19745010)

This "68 cents" claim originated from a Huffington Post article last week. It was debunked the next day by the Columbia Journalism Review:

And so HuffPo posted a retraction:

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 19748683)

Millions of additional people making more money equals millions of people with extra money to buy things.

I sell things, so that helps me and my business out a whole bunch. Not sure how things work on the other side of reality.

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 19748683)

Millions of additional people making more money equals millions of people with extra money to buy things.

I sell things, so that helps me and my business out a whole bunch. Not sure how things work on the other side of reality.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19748858)

And by the way...teenagers wouldn't buy memberships to our paysites anyway.