So Snowden lied about pretty much eveything?

[Rochard]

Seems Snowden's story isn't holding up.

Seems he claimed his salary is $200k/year, but it was a lot less. Seems he also left home a lot earlier than he told everyone. But the best part is it seems this guy didn't have the authority or ability to tap anyone.

Seems his resume is full of more bullshit than usual.

I think guy is a no one, a low level employee who made a lot of stuff up.

News article:
http://news.yahoo.com/5-ways-nsa-lea...115500971.html

[_Richard_]

character properly assassinated?

guess they're saving the homosexual tranny binge for later

[dyna mo]

and that is exactly the issue.

a low level dipshit dumass with top secret security clearance

there are 10,000+ more just like him at booz

[dyna mo]

in 2010, the wp uncovered that there were ~850,000 employees in the intelligence community with top secret security clearances.

of those 850k, 250,000 were private sector, contract employees just like snowden.


snowden is representative of the guys snooping up your data in the corporate world and then selling it to the us government.

[NinjaSteve]

"5 ways NSA leaker Edward Snowden's story isn't holding up"

I'll wait for more. Especially after the recent DC news breaks and 'assurances'

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

character properly assassinated?

I didn't think about that really. You might just be right.

I think it's odd that they are focusing on "when he left Hawaii". I'm not sure why that is important. But now it seems like they are reporting some drama with their land lord... So I am guessing some big drama is going to come out - like he committed some crime, fled the country, and now is trying to claim he is a whistle blower.

[dyna mo]

umm, he is a whistle blower.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I didn't think about that really. You might just be right.

I think it's odd that they are focusing on "when he left Hawaii". I'm not sure why that is important. But now it seems like they are reporting some drama with their land lord... So I am guessing some big drama is going to come out - like he committed some crime, fled the country, and now is trying to claim he is a whistle blower.

it will definitely be something

pretty sure this guy has fucked without a condom as well.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

umm, he is a whistle blower.

I don't think he is a whistle blower at all. So far to date he hasn't told anyone of any illegal activity. He brought to light that the NSA and the CIA is using email services and Facebook and what not to help with terrorist investigations, but I don't believe this is secret - We all knew about it.

So far the only one who broke the law here is Snowden himself.

[dyna mo]

he leaked classifed documents rochard.

it's very simple.

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

character properly assassinated?

guess they're saving the homosexual tranny binge for later

Hahaha..... well said.

I mean you'd have to be DUMB, DUMB, DUMB not to think that the media/govt is going to try and discredit him as a person and make him look like a bad person before they can go after him properly

[mikesouth]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

in 2010, the wp uncovered that there were ~850,000 employees in the intelligence community with top secret security clearances.

of those 850k, 250,000 were private sector, contract employees just like snowden.


snowden is representative of the guys snooping up your data in the corporate world and then selling it to the us government.

for the record top secret is a rather nebulous term, I held a top secret level at NASA which allowed me in the DOD firing rooms during a launch cycle

That same clearance wouldnt have gotten me into the urinals at Langley

[candyflip]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

he leaked classifed documents rochard.

it's very simple.

Even in the face of fact, Rochard seems to be the kind of person who refuses to see the the simple truth.

This isn't the first time.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

for the record top secret is a rather nebulous term, I held a top secret level at NASA which allowed me in the DOD firing rooms during a launch cycle

That same clearance wouldnt have gotten me into the urinals at Langley

ok, let's not have any oversight then, you make a valid point. no issues with 250,000 contractors with top secret clearance and zero oversight.

yeah, that can't go wrong, wait, n/m snowden is sitting in hong kong after releasing classified documents.

Originally Posted by candyflip

Even in the face of fact, Rochard seems to be the kind of person who refuses to see the the simple truth.

This isn't the first time.

i can understand how whistleblower had different definitions depending on the context but under this context, those documents reveal broad unethical misconduct.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

he leaked classifed documents rochard.

it's very simple.

So far I have yet to read exactly what he's turned over, only very general descriptions of what he claims the government is doing. I have yet to see where the government was doing anything illegal.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

....no issues with 250,000 contractors with top secret clearance and zero oversight.....

It is stunning to me that there are "250k contactors" with top secret clearance.

And I bet you there is a lot going on at the CIA and other such agencies that we have no idea is going on....

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Rochard

So far I have yet to read exactly what he's turned over, only very general descriptions of what he claims the government is doing. I have yet to see where the government was doing anything illegal.

how would you know what they are doing is illegal or not? the justice department secretly intrepreted section 215 of the patriot act:::

that the government has secretly interpreted a part of the Patriot Act in a way that they portray as twisted, allowing the Federal Bureau of Investigation to conduct some kind of unspecified domestic surveillance that does not dovetail with a plain reading of the statute.

The dispute has focused on Section 215 of the Patriot Act. It allows a secret national security court to issue an order allowing the F.B.I. to obtain ?any tangible things? in connection with a national security investigation. It is sometimes referred to as the ?business records? section because public discussion around it has centered on using it to obtain customer information like hotel or credit card records.

But in addition to that kind of collection, the senators contend that the government has also interpreted the provision, based on rulings by the secret national security court, as allowing some other kind of activity that allows the government to obtain private information about people who have no link to a terrorism or espionage case.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by candyflip

Even in the face of fact, Rochard seems to be the kind of person who refuses to see the the simple truth.

This isn't the first time.

Other than a few vague descriptions of what Snowden claims the government is doing, I have yet to see any document he's turned over. He tells us the government can pull up any data about us, but... We already knew this. This has been going since the beginning of time.

[dyna mo]

the worst part about the entire cluster fuck is that there is no way of proving it all works

Underscoring the seriousness of these issues are the conclusions of retired Army Lt. Gen. John R. Vines, who was asked last year to review the method for tracking the Defense Department's most sensitive programs. Vines, who once commanded 145,000 troops in Iraq and is familiar with complex problems, was stunned by what he discovered.

"I'm not aware of any agency with the authority, responsibility or a process in place to coordinate all these interagency and commercial activities," he said in an interview. "The complexity of this system defies description."

The result, he added, is that it's impossible to tell whether the country is safer because of all this spending and all these activities. "Because it lacks a synchronizing process, it inevitably results in message dissonance, reduced effectiveness and waste," Vines said. "We consequently can't effectively assess whether it is making us more safe."

[bronco67]

He's a narcissistic fool with a crusader complex. His face is also very punchable.

[PhoneSexKing]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

character properly assassinated?

guess they're saving the homosexual tranny binge for later

Ahahaha... no shit 'eh... Maybe they'll find him in Sweden having "surprise sex" with 2 different woman.. oh wait.. they did that one already.

Maybe just dead with a needle in his arm... everyone can just call him a crazy junkie then.

[shake]

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this does seem like a situation where the government would like to discredit him, and I wouldn't believe the official story.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by candyflip

Even in the face of fact, Rochard seems to be the kind of person who refuses to see the the simple truth.

This isn't the first time.

well there is the bit about a borderline personality being the type to 'leak' documents so I don't find it difficult to believe that areas of the guys life are complete shit, unlike you apparently

[dyna mo]

yeah, let's pay borderline personality disorder people with lives in complete shambles to be responsible for our intelligence.


makes sense.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by PhoneSexKing

Ahahaha... no shit 'eh... Maybe they'll find him in Sweden having "surprise sex" with 2 different woman.. oh wait.. they did that one already.

Maybe just dead with a needle in his arm... everyone can just call him a crazy junkie then.

They seem to focusing on Hawaii and when he left - and why. Seems his landlord was kicking him out and wanted him out by the 1st.

[TheSquealer]

Without analyzing the details...every living organism whether it is a baboon, plant life, a person, a group of people, a nation, a religion, a culture etc pushes back when attacked. He put out one version, there is a counter with version that calls his into question. All par for the course. No sense in trying to look at details when they are being fed by agencies who do nothing but lie and coverup and have every incentive in this case to do so. No one will ever know but a tiny fraction of the truth and thats never enough to make any sort of call in anyones favor.

That said, he did not exactly seem like a lunatic or a compulsive liar. He was clearly very bright, lucid and well spoken... and none of his claims were unreasonable to assume to be true.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by PhoneSexKing

Ahahaha... no shit 'eh... Maybe they'll find him in Sweden having "surprise sex" with 2 different woman.. oh wait.. they did that one already.

Maybe just dead with a needle in his arm... everyone can just call him a crazy junkie then.

well, only a matter of time before these boneheads figure out they can access and upload whatever they want to every computer

and then 'do a raid'

...

[Si]

Originally Posted by Rochard

This has been going since the beginning of time.

Sorry that is a very flawed statement to make. But I know what you meant by it.

[PhoneSexKing]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

well, only a matter of time before these boneheads figure out they can access and upload whatever they want to every computer and then 'do a raid'...

Every computer? Via targeted system exploitation? or do they just kindly ask Apple to bundle illegal files with the next OS update?

[96ukssob]

Snowden is a government conspiracy to distract us from other things going on!

Like George W's bday

[PhoneSexKing]

Originally Posted by bossku69

Like George W's bday

Why? Did he lie about his age again? Or is he actually reptilian like the interwebz sayz???

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I didn't think about that really. You might just be right.

I think it's odd that they are focusing on "when he left Hawaii". I'm not sure why that is important. But now it seems like they are reporting some drama with their land lord... So I am guessing some big drama is going to come out - like he committed some crime, fled the country, and now is trying to claim he is a whistle blower.

OMG a Crisis - He didnt give 30 days notice. WTF???!!!! Call the Bank, Call the Police! LOL

Yeah, they kinda blew it when they first came out and said his leaks provided grave consequences for the intelligence community (an oxymoron if I ever heard of one) and now they are trying to assassinate him via "lack of credibility".

He is one of hundreds of thousands who are realizing they are working for a treasonous government. When the eyes are fully opened North Korea will have a higher footing than the US in world view.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by PhoneSexKing

Every computer? Via targeted system exploitation? or do they just kindly ask Apple to bundle illegal files with the next OS update?

if they own microsoft/apple, and have a history of installing 'backdoor systems'

..

[PhoneSexKing]

Originally Posted by Rochard

They seem to focusing on Hawaii and when he left - and why. Seems his landlord was kicking him out and wanted him out by the 1st.

If you were planning to flee the country would you really pay last month's rent?

[mrgica]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I think guy is a no one, a low level employee who made a lot of stuff up.

Probably thats the case. As young he is and stupid, he was probably influenced by doomsday/conspiracy crowd to do this stupid thing.

[mikesouth]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

ok, let's not have any oversight then, you make a valid point. no issues with 250,000 contractors with top secret clearance and zero oversight.

yeah, that can't go wrong, wait, n/m snowden is sitting in hong kong after releasing classified documents.



i can understand how whistleblower had different definitions depending on the context but under this context, those documents reveal broad unethical misconduct.

Oh theres oversight and lots of it, when you apply for that clearance it takes over a year usually (back then) to get it and in the grand scheme mine was very low...they talk to everyone you ever knew...high school teachers, friends, enemies they try to dig up everyone they can.

Then after you get it you remain under increased scrutiny even after your clearance expires.

No amount of all of that will prevent someone from going rogue, thats just how it is. Personally I think his exposing this was a good thing, our government has gone way beyond what should be acceptable.

did ya ever notice how all that shit Nixon got impeached over is now legal?

[Yanks_Todd]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

for the record top secret is a rather nebulous term, I held a top secret level at NASA which allowed me in the DOD firing rooms during a launch cycle

That same clearance wouldnt have gotten me into the urinals at Langley

Very true, my step dad had top secret clearance when he worked on the B-2 at Boeing in Seattle. That essentially gave him access to the B-2 fuel tanks where he sealed the insides. The plane was covered and he only saw the inside of a fuel tank which probably wasn't that interesting.

I think there is some character assassination, however I also think that Snowden is an unremarkable person who wants to be somebody.

[Far-L]

"I?m cold," Snowden said softly, "I?m cold."

"You?re going to be all right, kid," Yossarian reassured him with a grin. "You?re going to be all right."

"I?m cold," Snowden said again in a frail, childlike voice. "I?m cold."

"There, there," Yossarian said, because he did not know what else to say. "There, there."

"I?m cold," Snowden whimpered. "I?m cold."

"There, there. There, there."

(great book, recommended)

[PhoneSexKing]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

if they own microsoft/apple, and have a history of installing 'backdoor systems'..

Nah. They don't have to put in backdoors. (I suppose they can turn a blind eye to discovered holes.)

The reason is that 99.9% of software is complete shit. Script kiddies with tools from the interwebz can break the "security" on a lot of systems.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

for the record top secret is a rather nebulous term, I held a top secret level at NASA which allowed me in the DOD firing rooms during a launch cycle

That same clearance wouldnt have gotten me into the urinals at Langley

On a submarine, even the cooks had a secret clearance

TOP secret , Classified, all stuff you are not suppose to talk about.
Then they debrief you and you are never suppose to talk about it again!
I've had all that, lots of people out there with clearances

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Oh theres oversight and lots of it, when you apply for that clearance it takes over a year usually (back then) to get it and in the grand scheme mine was very low...they talk to everyone you ever knew...high school teachers, friends, enemies they try to dig up everyone they can.

Then after you get it you remain under increased scrutiny even after your clearance expires.

No amount of all of that will prevent someone from going rogue, thats just how it is. Personally I think his exposing this was a good thing, our government has gone way beyond what should be acceptable.

did ya ever notice how all that shit Nixon got impeached over is now legal?

i hear ya but snowden was investigated 5 years back from the date of his securty investigation and that was the end of it. and that was even before he worked for booz. so booz never checked him out, his one and only cia security check cleared him for the length of his stay in the intel bidness, based on what i've gathered.

moreover, that's not what oversight is. oversight is setup to double-check that process you just described.

also, by all accounts of the experts who have been paid to evaluate the intel community, there is no accountability and zero structure. this entire world exploded exponentially after 9/11 with billions & billions thrown at it. hard to keep track at that level of growth, based on the folks in the know looking at that aspect of it.

it's ~impossible to have oversight in an environment like that.




it's too big, it's too ineffective and it needs to be way way way scaled back

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

Very true, my step dad had top secret clearance when he worked on the B-2 at Boeing in Seattle. That essentially gave him access to the B-2 fuel tanks where he sealed the insides. The plane was covered and he only saw the inside of a fuel tank which probably wasn't that interesting.

I think there is some character assassination, however I also think that Snowden is an unremarkable person who wants to be somebody.

the top secret security clearance stats i provided here are from the intel community, not overall defense clearance.

850,000 top secret security clearances in intelligence. not pentagon.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by PhoneSexKing

Nah. They don't have to put in backdoors. (I suppose they can turn a blind eye to discovered holes.)

The reason is that 99.9% of software is complete shit. Script kiddies with tools from the interwebz can break the "security" on a lot of systems.

well i am talking on a institution level.. these are the guys that thought HB Gary were the end all be all of security, who ended up getting hacked cause someone asked them for a password

so those guys answer is smear campaigns and 'disappearing'

there is far more effective ways to discredit someone.. completely

[arock10]

Originally Posted by Rochard

So far I have yet to read exactly what he's turned over, only very general descriptions of what he claims the government is doing. I have yet to see where the government was doing anything illegal.

That's the thing.... its NOT illegal, that's the surprising part

[PhoneSexKing]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

well i am talking on a institution level.. these are the guys that thought HB Gary were the end all be all of security, who ended up getting hacked cause someone asked them for a password

Yeah, that was more of a poor "security policy" type-of-a-thing. (Social engineering lol)

Originally Posted by _Richard_

so those guys answer is smear campaigns and 'disappearing' there is far more effective ways to discredit someone.. completely

I don't know if they could "disappear" Snowden now. I mean, who has motive to make him disappear.

I totally agree with the discreting angle. I mean, we are seeing that already and we totally expected it.

But really, I think that the exposure of PRISM will do no more than the exposure of the AT&Treason+NSA thing from a few years back.

I don't think this will get fixed with lawsuits and law in general. The tech to spy is just too cheap and the intelligence is too valuable.

People just need to start covering their own asses better by using technical means to protect their privacy. Ie: cryptography, don't use "cloud" services, use open source when possible, patch yer shit, etc..

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by arock10

That's the thing.... its NOT illegal, that's the surprising part

dang. short and sweet.

Originally Posted by PhoneSexKing

I don't think this will get fixed with lawsuits and law in general. The tech to spy is just too cheap and the intelligence is too valuable.

People just need to start covering their own asses better by using technical means to protect their privacy. Ie: cryptography, don't use "cloud" services, use open source when possible, patch yer shit, etc..

that's what i'm thinking to, it's too big to fail now. can't have an entire industry just go away. even if the government dumped all the booz's, those companies are required by law to operate with the bottomline in mind at all times, they will look for work elsewhere, applying their technology wherever they can make a nickel off it.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by PhoneSexKing

If you were planning to flee the country would you really pay last month's rent?

.. and move out on the 1st ....

A Hawaii real estate agent says Edward Snowden and his girlfriend moved out of their home in a quiet neighborhood near Honolulu on May 1, leaving nothing behind.

Century 21 real estate agent Kerri Jo Heim says Sunday that the owner of the house wanted the couple out so that the home could be sold.

Heim says police came by on Wednesday to ask where the couple went. She told them she didn't know.

[PhoneSexKing]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

.. and move out on the 1st ....

lol I was trolling...

[PhoneSexKing]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

that's what i'm thinking to, it's too big to fail now. can't have an entire industry just go away. even if the government dumped all the booz's, those companies are required by law to operate with the bottomline in mind at all times, they will look for work elsewhere, applying their technology wherever they can make a nickel off it.

It's like a tumor that someone wrote with a felt pen "don't get any bigger" on.

[mikesouth]

Originally Posted by PhoneSexKing

Yeah, that was more of a poor "security policy" type-of-a-thing. (Social engineering lol)



I don't know if they could "disappear" Snowden now. I mean, who has motive to make him disappear.

I totally agree with the discreting angle. I mean, we are seeing that already and we totally expected it.

But really, I think that the exposure of PRISM will do no more than the exposure of the AT&Treason+NSA thing from a few years back.

I don't think this will get fixed with lawsuits and law in general. The tech to spy is just too cheap and the intelligence is too valuable.

People just need to start covering their own asses better by using technical means to protect their privacy. Ie: cryptography, don't use "cloud" services, use open source when possible, patch yer shit, etc..

Oh they can "disappear him" they are very patient and unforgiving, give it time he will be forgotten then he will die from a brain tumor or some such and itll be buried in the news behind some story about the little league world series winner