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Notice how the idiot protesters are protesting something they don't know the facts about.

http://www.brain-terminal.com/articl...e-protest.html

Babaganoosh

Haha, that cracks me up. That's pretty common all over the world. A lot of people are just jumping on the bandwagon. Hell, it's a great way to meet people I guess.

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SquarePants

Looks like mom and dads college money is well spent

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DjSap

Pretty funny...but the editing reminds me of a michael moore production...

.:Frog:.

What idiot put the movie in quicktime format?

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Raider Mort

A classic case of the well intentioned and ill informed being led around by the ill intentioned and well informed.

Where's Mr. Fiction now??

XXXManager

Its not Mr.Fiction to protect these people
Though I wonder how many peace protestors are NOT like the ones in the clip. I understant people want to let some steam off and are affraid and want to do something.
AND as I said, some think its fun to protest lotsa hippies. (and quite a considerable number of arab/muslims protestors)
Ive been searching on Google for "anti war iraq" sites and found so many talking about Israel as well. Like it has anything to do with the issue. It only shows who pulls alot of the strings here. I would have to be puppeted like many of these protestors - but they seem to enjoy it, so let them..

asuna

What would you doto fix everything?
"uhm.. well.. i'd.. i'd.. uhm"
"I don't know, but I know sending people for war is NOT the answer"
"blank stare"
"blink... blink"
"huh? fix what?"
"uhm.. thats a good question"

bang! ak!

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Mr.Fiction

The funniest part is that many of the people who support the war are even stupider.

LongShlong8

I think the ones who are missinformed are those not protesting this war. First, war is wrong and only builds more hate and more generations of hate towards us as American invaders - this would be the first war we started. Secondly, the focus should be on the real problems which face our country. Does anyone remember a little thing called our economy? Well wake up, its failing and Bush doesn't know what to do about it. But a war worked for daddy, so he's trying it too. What about Osama? Bush hasn't mentioned his name once this year. This war will cost us an estimated 1 trillion dollars over the next ten years. Plus we now want to give 30 more billion just to attack from Turkey as well as Kuwait. Wait a minute here, are these your tax dollars being wasted? I think so. How about dedicating a small portion of that 1 trillion to rebuilding our econony, seeking prosecution against all those who have rapped american investors and the working class who have lost hundreds of thousands of jobs since this administration took over. We could use whats left to help the people of Iraq liberate themselves - if they so choose to do it. Drop money on them not bombs. Shit they could buy their way to freedom with 10 bucks in the shit ass dictatorship Saddam has enslaved them under. Point is, there are lots of other problems in the world, and Saddam is nothing but a distraction from the real ones which we face. If you ask me he knows it. In fact, he and his will surely profit from this war or posturing of war in the end. Its not like we've stopped buying oil from Iraq since this smoke screen went up. We put the man in power, Rummy Rumsfeld shook his hand for killing over a million kurds and we are still in bed with him to this day dispite the hipe. Sure, we may kill him in the long run, but only because our dog didn't sit when we told him too. This is a joke and the real issue is our economy. We should also stop buying oil from evil dictators.

LongShlong8

Something else just came to mind. I find it strange that some of us in the adult industry are so quick to support war. Have you forgotten the roots of porn were based in the 60's counter culture movement? "Make love not war" ring a bell? We wouldn't have the right to do what we do if it were not for the hippies and their open minded and anti war ideals. Don't burn the bridge your standing on.

Mr.Fiction

There are a lot of stupid people on both sides of this issue, I just believe there are more stupid people on the "we don't need no other countries support to kill arabs" side. I'm guessing that some here would disagree.

rooster

theres several countries on board. But nut job commies like youself live in a dream world.

GTS Mark

When those people become victims of Terrorism I wonder how quickly they will change their tune?

DH

rooster

The thing I hate about most of the anti war group is that its politically motivated. Its just a bunch of left wingers pissing and moaning about bush, and they have no plan or logical arguments against it.

People still give clinton standing ovations. lol. I think we are doomed as a people. I'd be surprised if there was humans left in another hundred years.

XXXManager

You dont need others to give you a green light to protect yourself.
The problem is, people dont see this as an act of self protection.

Raider Mort

You do not have sufficient information to make that claim.

UnseenWorld

Funny...I wrote a letter to my family that featured that clip. Here's what I wrote:

While I'm no gung-ho fan of the seemingly inevitable war to eject Saddam Hussein from Iraq and disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction, the brain-dead and naive responses of the antiwar protesters in the video linked below are even more distressing because they are so typical of what I hear from so many of my supposedly well-educated friends. Listen to this man, armed with just a few facts, ask protesters a few simple questions, and see what lame answers he gets. From my own experience, many people who want Iraq to have more time to comply, seem totally unaware that Iraq has already had eight years...an interval which it has used mostly to hide its weapons production and gain one delay after another. Here is the link:

http://www.brain-terminal.com/articl....html#download

You don't need to tell me this guy is pretty conservative. I'm fairly libertarian myself, which means I don't think everything a conservative says is wrong nor that everything a liberal says is right. He's also a bit of a smarty pants, which grates, but listen to him and those he interviews and ask yourself which side is really better informed.

No, I'm not going to break open the champagne the day U.S. troops set foot on Iraqi soil (if and when such a day comes), but I find the dipsy-doodle knee-jerk opposition to it probably a bit more distressing than the thought of war since supposedly this is an educated country, and since so many of the people he interviews are obviously products of higher education, and yet they are as dumb as posts on this issue, having nothing substantial to offer as an alternative other than name calling and sloganeering and "give them more time." If those opposed to invading Iraq had a solid plan that stood some chance of ridding Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, I might feel differently, but Saddam Hussein is so obviously playing a cynical shell game that what would be the point of giving him much more time? Either giving him his chemical/biological/nuclear weapons or doing something about it seems to be the choice Hussein leaves us with. What could a few more weeks or months gain? Is anyone seriously expecting a sincere change of heart after the record of the last eight years? If we don't deal with Hussein soon, Iraq will end up like North Korea, a country which is much more difficult to deal with because it DOES have weapons which CAN rain terrible destruction down on South Korea and Japan in just minutes (this being the answer to the question of why we treat the two countries differently). In fact, North Korea will soon have the capacity to strike our own West Coast, so they are a very big problem indeed, and not just for South Korea and Japan.

As Tony Blair has pointed out, once the troops march in and oust Hussein, it's likely even more of Hussein's crimes and atrocities will be uncovered, pro-democracy political prisoners will be released, and the liberation will be more popular with those who currently oppose the invasion both in Iraq and out. At this time, the terrorized Iraqi people have no choice but to appear to support this tyrant. Failure to do so can mean imprisonment or death. Have you ever seen the video where Hussein calmly sat there and named his opponents in the Bath Party, and had them taken out and summarily executed for the "crime" of opposing him, as he savors a cigar? This is the guy we are dealing with. Quite naturally, the Iraqis don't want war on their soil (who would?). But Hussein has frittered and bluffed his way through eight years. Does anyone really think eight more weeks would yield anything other than more of the same? or that the peace protesters would then stop the name calling and chanting and agree that "now it's time send in the shock troops"? And there is a reason to do this war earlier rather than later: It's important for any conflict not to drag on into late spring and summer, because chemical/biological warfare weapons are much more effective in hot weather, and the safety of U.S. and other participating troops should be a consideration.

As for the argument that "Bush just wants the oil," I'd be extremely surprised if we grabbed the oil fields and I know the U.S. public's sense of morality and fair play would not stand for that. I think you know that, too. And of course one reason Bush can't do that is because it's the rap he's getting. Further evidence is that we didn't do it the last time we had a chance.

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CDSmith

Nice post Unseen. Very well said.

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jimmyf

Very nice

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Have you ever seen the video where Hussein calmly sat there and named his opponents in the Bath Party, and had them taken out and summarily executed for the "crime" of opposing him, as he savors a cigar?
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I've seen that Video 3 times. Don't think many people that hang around this board have seen it though. I saw it all 3 times on PBS.

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bhutocracy

when the answers aren't black and white you can't expect the majority of either "side" to have more than a simplistic solution.
one persons "bomb iraq" is another's "no war"
I think you'd get just as many dumb and uninformed answers for the people wanting war as against, especially when edited down to the dumbest few like in the clip.
I don't believe the peace marches are "trendy" or "jumping on the bandwagon" anymore than wanting to bomb afghanistan after 9/11 was, thats just naivety to think so, and theres no point in misconstruing or not understanding their motivation, even though I realise that those charges are mainly used to denigrate their beliefs and are generally wilfull misinterpretation of their actions.
A popular protest movement is a double edged sword, by tapping into the masses you attract people relying on gut reactions and not facts or solutions, by not doing so you only have your hardcore protesting rent-a-crowd that is easily dismissed.
The fact that mums and dads, as well as apolitical persons are coming together with the usual left wing element is a demonstration that should not be sneered at or overlooked for fear of underestimating public opinion and resolve.

galleryseek

unseen

nemesis

When those war supporters become victims of "War" I wonder how quickly they will change their tune?

Sly_RJ

Hey! You forgot to mention Rush and Talk Radio. You're slippin' man!

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iroc409

well, i guess then, which is worse, fleeing from terror or standing up for your country?

i tend to agree with unseen..

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Interlude

I don't support this war, but I really hate liberals and hippie fuck protesters. How to reconcile...

scooby doo as scooby does

Unseenworld:

You write that kind of thing to your mum ??????


Incidentally, there is one small, very small error in your letter...

Three months of inspections and complete US failure to point to any weapons of mass destruction, laboratories or delivery systems kinda negates the whole thing really.

Why is it the pro-war'ers keep harping on this when it's been shown to have as much truth in it as the Kuwait baby incubators lie ?

Going to war to protect the petro-dollar, or secure oil supplies, that I can understand. Resources like those are the reason for prolly 90% of wars.

I say kudos for a lot of people around the world realizing that's what it's about, regardless or whether they are for or against the war, at least some people are looking past the government propaganda this time.

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XXXManager

Probably he indeed does not have facts to rely on. (even without the gun Mr Mort)

XXXManager

Three months of inspections when you can't go freely to check places you want.
..When whenever you go to a new place, TV cameras welcome the inspectors meaning they knew where they were heading.
..When whenever they find something like too powerful rocket engines or high quantities of "ingredients" for chimical weapons they can the excuse of "We told you about that, didn't we? anyway its for baby food".
..When 200 inspectors in an hostile groud have to inspect a country the size of california.
..When they DID find alot of things they shouldn't find.
..When its NOT THEIR JOB to find stuff in the first place, if you bother to check the facts. They are only there to help record and inspect the disarming process.
..When people there are affraid to even talk to inspectors for fears of getting their entire family executed.
..When we don't need inspections to know he already had these weapons and intelligence finding show he has been ordering parts, components and materials to produce such weapons.
..When even if they don't find anything in 3 weeks or months or years, we know he already used such weapons in the past and he (like any dictator) didn't become more liberal (or less ruthless) with times.
..When defectors from his army and leadership tell the true story.

How about that?

Also, saying this war is only about oil is "not seeing far beyond the cloud of propaganda" just as well. It seems you don't realize there might be other motives such as fear for security.
Just think about that.. you are able to say these unfound things ONLY because of the same people that you are chastising now and the same people putting their lives at stake once again to keep you happy and safe behind the computer.
There are alot of countries supporting this war that has NOTHING to do with the Iraqi oil. And as I said once before, oil (as an economic tool) is also a weapon. Not that I think this was has much to do with that, but you are entitled to an opinion of your own, no matter how irellevant it is (or I think it is).
I dont know how you got to the coclusion that 90% of wars are about "resources like that" but whatever. As long as you think it "sounds right"..

XXXManager

I am sure you will find alot of dumbasses saying "bomb iraq" with stupid reasons like "We can't be ashamed like that in the UN" or whatever, but that does not matter, since we see no pointless Pro-war protests, but mainly because..
The people that decide to go/no-go to war are not protestors that say "Bomb Iraq". They are (I hope most are) smart people with alot of information on their hands. I see alot of you that can't seem to realize that its a possibility. You think everybody is an oil company owner and I can't understand who/what brought you up to think that way.
Yes it is. For many people its fun to be in a protest. They feel good being in a large public. The more bored they are with their lives the more its fun. The more they look for meaning the funner it is. The younger they are (16-20) looking for ideals to embrace the more fun it becomes to go and protest (all are general rules not only for anti-war). It does not make protests irellevant. Only a fact to consider.
The thing is, I've seen a lot of videos of interviews and never have I seen someone talking much sense. I'm sure there are some, but they blend in the huge crowd of uninformed/dumb..
And as one woman shouting in the UK protest ... "1,2,3,4 we don't want your racist war. 5,6,7,8 palestine is here to stay"
You realize wrong. The dumbness of many of the protestors come before the accusation. So its not a tool to denigrate their beliefs. just an inspection and pointing out the facts. Do a search for sites about anti-war-iraq and look at the real motives of the majority of the anti-war movement.
I just see it as alot of people wanting to express feelings rather than thoughts and opinions. The other part are political agenda-driven people that has their interests on the other side of the fence so to speak.
These protests should be allowed to take place since its the only way a democracy can survive. But no democracy can survive by NOT protecting itself against dangers like the Iraqi leadership and N.Korean leadership (and the French leadership ;) ) etc...

bhutocracy

I think you're saying people that are for bombing Iraq are smart and have a lot of information on their hands.. which as a generalisation as opposed to people against the war is bullshit.

just like the anti war people there is a gut reaction to 9/11 and the culture of fear in America at the moment that makes a lot of people want to bomb Iraq, not scholarly research.
Both sides have their blind followers.

In any argument here I see more educated opinions from both sides than stupid ones ( if you take out the "turn iraq into a parking lot" semi-jokes)

I don't know where the oil company owner thing came into this.

most people don't get off their fat asses and turn off the tv to join a bunch of people they don't know walking down the street unless they believe in it. Otherwise you'd have all protestors protesting all the time. theres a reason the anti-war rallies are so big, and thats because so many people disagree with it, not because it's "fun". Contrary to what you might think protesting isn't considered cool and usually gets responded to with condescending criticism.. it takes a fair bit to get people to do it. by even mentioning this as a factor (which im sure it is for a small percentage) you're willfully misunderstanding the motivations of the vast majority that aren't doing it to meet girls or whatever.
It's much cooler to hate arabs and say "kill ragheads" and fit in with that group than be called a french loving pussy.

as i said in a large protest movement most people are relying on a gut reaction.. im not going to pretend they're geniuses.. they just stick out more than the dumb people they're opposing because they're out in the street.
In a protest where they march for a long time they chant all sorts of different stuff thats related so they're not saying the same thing over and over again, The UK woman was obviously just chanting related material, probably after yelling pro Iraq stuff for the last half hour.

Actually you "realise wrong" it IS a tool to denigrate their beliefs most people don't march to be popular.. its just as simple as that.. if you think they are then.. well you're being ignorant of the facts of why people are marching. it's the same as calling them middle class, or "latte drinkers" it infers they are doing something for fad reasons so you don't have to take their objections seriously.. it's used time and time again.. it's the conservative version of calling someone a "redneck" it's like calling the people that are pro-war "bandwagon jumpers" because it's popular.. it's just stupid namecalling that doesn't address the issues of why people believe what they believe.

yeah I agree.. it's a gut reaction for most people.. and a general feeling that it's not the right course to take.. but by calling them "fad jumpers" means you don't look at whats producing those feelings, and the breakdown of what the protestors believe.. which isn't just "anti-war." If had approached the situation more diplomatically a lot of the protesters wouldn't mind.. there would always be a hard core element that protested whatever decision was made, but there are varying degrees of involvement that people can tolerate.. less people would protest if more countries were involved and the UN gave the OK. less people would protest if it wasn't a full on invasion likely to kill so many civilians.. less people would protest if they thought Bush was going after the right people first, less people would protest if they weren't as worried about getting terrorist attacks in return (which goes back to getting the right people in the right order, frankly Iraq isn't at the top of the list as far as terrorism is concerned).
People protesting want protection but they don't believe that this is the way to do it. In fact many think that this particular course of action will create more terrorists than is kills.

stocktrader23

Like our victims of terrorism from Sadaam? Wait that's Bin Laden.

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XXXManager

Read what I wrote again. I said the people deciding on the war are not silly protestors. They are not out in the streets anyhow. If you think your president decided one morning to go out to war you are wrong. Its informed and smart people that make it their business to know everything regarding the descision. It's their job, placed there by the same democratic mechanisms you (and me) appriciate so much and we all pay their paychecks from out tax money.
If you think people on the streets, either loud protestors against the war or the same bunch (though I didnt see any on the streets) on the other side of the fence.. you are wrong.
As to the oil issue - It came from the anti-war protestors and people here on the board. Some people think the war is "all about oil".

First, alot of the protestors are arabs. Many of the organizers are arab groups or arab country supporters. I know exactly what I say when I talk about protests, this one more than any. I heard alot of people just protesting cause they "think" its cool or the right thing without thinking too much of the reasons they were brought to protest in the first place as well as the possible implications of what will happen if they had their way.
"unless they believe in it" - I didn't say they don't believe in it. Its easy to believe. It's much harder to know. Many people believe in god. None of god's believers has the knowledge it exists. not "believing" that war is a solution is a naive point of view (or idealistic at best). Guiding our lives on beliefs only will get us all destroyed.

I didnt call them anything. I didn't call them anything just for spite. I say many of them are ignorant of the facts - which the video at the top proves as MANY other I've seen. I know some facts that makes it obvious that just shouting "I'm against war" is silly. If they went out to the streets with signs saying "More UN restrictions and Ebmargo" instead of "Bush and Blair = baby killers" I would listen further. but they don't. Silly remarks like in the video, saying "There must be another solution, lets communicate with Saddam" is words coming out of stupidity, not even ignorance. I take their objection seriously enough to requestion my position and thoughts. I did it time and again. I didn't come to new realizations though. Sorry - but I think the smart minority among the protestors are wrong (actually the smart ones don't protest on the streets).

12 years time to resolve the issue is very diplomatic I think. Passing one UN resolution after the other is very diplomatic I think. Getting the support of so many countries around the world is very diplomatic i think.
There are alot of countries supporting taking out saddam by force today. Check the stats ;)
The right wars are not necessarily the popular wars. You don't need approval from everybody to protect yourself. If Israel hasn't attacked the Iraqi reactor in 81, you would be living under nuclear threat today. You know how much support was to the Israeli attack at 81? ZERO. Do you regret Israel did that? Maybe you think that action is the reason for all the hate in the world? hehe
What do you suggest? Shooting bullets in the sky? if you do something do it right. 12 years of sanctions and demands didn't work. You can't take such a leader down by something else than force. If you think there is a magic solution of some single shooter taking the guy down that your government dont use you are probably wrong. If they don't, its because there isn't.
Nor you and me neither the protestors know about the strategy of that war. Iraq is very high on the list of terror supporting countries. Even if its not #1 on the list, its maybe #1 on the list of targets strategy-wise. Smart people plan these moves. Have more trust in them than people who run out the streets with "killer" signs.
Being affraid of protecting yourself for fear of possible reaction/retaliation from your already enemy is silly. You probably know what I mean. If not - think about it again.

Again you go with "believe". What people believe is not important. what people know is important. Most of those who "believe" its not the right way have NO CLUE at all as to other possible course of action.

bhutocracy

It's hard to decipher what "The people that decide to go/no-go to war are not protestors that say "Bomb Iraq". " meant in the context, but I understand now you mean the people in power calling the shots.
Of course I don't think they're as dumb as the protestors. We were talking about the public being for or against the war, not politicians and their advisors.

how could I be wrong when this statement doesn't say anything?

Of course arab groups make a part of it. Does the fact you're a Jew mean your opinion is any less valid? Should I dismiss your arguments here because of it?
Yes it is much harder to "know", and frankly no-one "knows" what this action will lead to.. there are many possible outcomes that can be studied but this is a gamble that Bush is taking, no one knows how long the war will last.. no one knows how many people will die, no one knows how anti-western terrorism will be effected if at all. No one knows if this won't go against his popularity, No one knows what introducing the pre-emptive strike doctrine will do to the military alignments of the rest of the world.
In the absence of clairvoyance all we have are our beliefs based on the facts.

So you vote Shinui?



I said it's not "jumping on the bandwagon" and you said "yes it is".
the video doesn't "prove" anything.. If I was going to a march to make people look like idiots it wouldn't be hard.. if I went there to make people look intelligent it wouldn't be hard.. the beauty of editing. I've already said there are a lot of idiots there.. of course there are.. doesn't mean they're all dumb.
The ones with signs made up are giong to be your hard core radicals.. concerned mums and dads that have just decided to march aren't going to take a placard that says they are baby killers.


im not talking purely diplomatic, I said in a more diplomatic way.. meaning more than saying "you're either with us or against us" before you charge in.. Yes there are a few countries..but NOTHING like the coalition in '91.

as I said.. no where near the same level of support as in '91.. and in some of those countries it's only the very head of state that supports the US not the population (not that that matters at all). If Israel hadn't of attacked the nuclear plant.. Israel would be under threat.. not me. Don't pretend it was done for altruistic reasons.


I suggest simultaeneous missile strikes on all 13 of his palaces and related personal sites. Not 800 missiles in 48 hours to "shock and awe" followed by urban warfare. The protestors don't give a rat's ass about saddam.. which is why they're unhappy with the sanctions and the fact that he's not affected.
they have tried assassination it's not going to happen, not without total regime destabilisation.


Paul Wolfowitz and co. wanted iraq well before 9/11, it had little to do with terrorism. No.. I certainly don't trust politicians and career lackeys running their own agendas.
Tell me how Saudi Arabia can be #4 or #5 on their list when thats where 9/11 terrorists came from? Iraq isn't anywhere near the terrorist threat they are. The only proven terror they support are donations to palestinians.


it's not a fear of self protection, it's a fear of how the "self protection" is being implemented.


without clairvoyance we can't know.. so it's a moot point. Im not talking about belief in a god, or belief in something that isn't possible to proove.. im talking a belief in a position interpreted from the facts. You can't "know" with 100% certainty anything about this war other than that the US will crush Iraq.
The FACT that this action, and even the talk of action is inflaming anti-US sentiment in muslim countries, the FACT that Al-Quaeda will be able to use this as propaganda to recruit people, the FACT that innocent civilians will die and their families will hate the US for it, and the FACT that Iraq has had no proven links to Al-Quaeda and they hate each other, so much so that the CIA guys laughed at the propganda, that there are at least five countries that are a more immediate terrorist threat leads people to believe that it will create more terrorists.. not some wishy washy "feeling" or "belief".
Do we know that it will create more terrorists? no.
can we construct a stance based on what we know? yes. is it right? who knows.. thats why it's a belief.
Invading Iraq in this way certainly isn't going to make militant muslims and more moderate ones becoming angrier and more happy with us.

lightswitch

@ the SF protest last sunday, Which happened to assemeble directly below my apartment, i walked around a bit, to jsut observe the people. 80% of the people were jsut liek those fools. "NO blood for oil" "no more bushit" that kinda stuff it was really funny listening to some of the people talk, they were all excited about their cause, & were aurguing with eachother about who was more right & more against the war than the other guy.

The only good arguments agaist the war i heard were about how its bassically wrong to kill other people.
But thats a reason to remove saddam he's killed thousands of Kurds, thousands of prisoners & thousands of people who just dont agree with him. Anybody think a fucking Amensty International letter writing campain is going to stop that?

The rest were just Bush haters, plain and simple. They were the people who would normally bitch @ their TV News every night, when Bushes name was mentioned, only now they have a public forum to do it in.


Iraq is resposible for 4%, FOUR fucken %! of the worlds oil production. It's not about oil, its about redoing shit that should have been done right the first time! You don't like Bush then go vote, but dont cry when it doesnt go you way! Go Fuck Yourself