YouPorn owner arrested in tax evasion probe - Page 24 - GoFuckYourself.com

BlackAndBlue · 12-21-2012, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konda

The tax issue is about the fact that Fabian had a company in Germany generating millions of dollars, and all managers were driving expensive cars and getting huge bonuses, while on paper the German company made a small loss each year.

[emphasis added is mine]

And that generating millions will showing a "small loss" is a tip off that it may be money laundering. You don't run a successful money laundering outfit by showing a huge profit. ;)

charlie g · 12-21-2012, 11:45 PM

poor guy. I sure hope he gets what is just and deserved

adultmobile · 12-22-2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herrmann

In it´s next printed edition Der Spiegel also reports that due to the last sentences of one of our highest courts (Bundesgerichtshof, BGH) the usual penalty for tax evasion of more than one million Euros is jail without parole. So, if Fabian is found guilty, he might face several years behind bars, Spiegel says. According to unnamed sources within the investigators there is the suspicion of taxes in excess of 10 million Euros having been evaded. Several terabytes of "evidence" - I guess it´s a lot of movies as well ;) - were confiscated in the raids.

Mind you that this story of Spiegel is not on their website yet, it´s a heads up of an upcoming report I just got from a friend.

Now the article is online, it says what your friend "predicted":

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justi...-a-874174.html

It mentions a 19% German VAT TAX too.
Let me write a wikipedic opinion on Manwin's VAT, pardon me.

In Cyprus VAT it is 17% now, but it was 15% until March 1, 2012. Let european customers be billed from Cyprus instead of Germany, for all the years before of March 1, 2012: that's a 4% discount until, and 2% later. The main point it is, was it legit to use Cyprus or not? For the moment, only the newspaper decided it, not the tax guys yet, even they suspect it as jail order shows.

The VAT it is to be paid on all sales to european customers, no matter you are in loss. So even if TAX people agree you had zero profits, the VAT it is "value added" to price of all the sales (only made to european citizens). So you get $119 from customers, as German company you must pay $19 tax within a month, each month for all sales, no matter profit or loss yet. instead as Cyprus company, every $115 you pay $15 vat. Over $100 final price, the German 19% vat it is $15.96 ($84.04 for company + $15.96 vat as 19% of pre-tax price), while the Cyprus 15% vat of $100 final price it is $13.04 ($86.96 for company + $13.04 tax as 15% of $86.96).

Let the TAX guys decide that Cyprus it was unapplicable and had to be German VAT applied (again, despite newspaper articles implies it, no final judgement on this has sentenced yet). This automatically would mean mean 4% of vat tax evasion for all sales done for all past years, no matter profit or loss to be verified or even looked at. Limited to MyDirtyHobby, I read in newspaper it may have sold for 2 million euro a month, this is 24m a year, so 50m or 70m for past few years examined.

To make it easy, let consider 100m sales all in loss, no profit taxable. Cyprus VAT would be 13 million to pay, while as German VAT would be 16 million, so 3 million of tax evasion "only". So the 10 million of tax evasion claimed can't be exclusively the VAT for MyDirtyHobby. It should include other sites and/or the income. It was mentioned that Trafficjunky used Cyprus, and I suppose Brazzers/Jugg sales does same for european sales. But these are really run from a Canadian (non-european) company, office and employees, unlike MyDirtyhobby being apparently run from Hamburg office.

For true and pure USA, Canada, Australia ompanies, owned by non-EU citizens or companies, it is 100% surely legit to choice the country where to set a subsidiary to have an Euro VAT number, and Cyprus it is obvious and accepted choice. there is no any law that madating a Canadian citizen/company to choice Germany over Cyprus or France as domicile for european VAT subsidiary, this should be underlined, and made clear.

The new owner (managing partner) is a German citizen, so this may be questionable, but he purchase a real Canadian company who was really owned and run by canadians in Canada, and such it was kept operating "as is". This could be legit, I am unsure there's a German law saying if a German buys a Canada company with a legit Cyprus subsidiary for Euro VAT (I repeat, it is legit for non-eu companies), then he is forced to change Canada company subsidiary to Germany.

In short, limited to VAT issue (not in income/loss issue), I think defense for MyDirtyhobby against TAX it will be hard to be win, if tax proves it was setup and run from Hamburg (Germany)... there a Cyprus VAT it looks wrong. But (limited to VAT), a defense of what it was setup and operated from outside Germany or Europe (for real, and even before Fabian owned it), so Manwin Canada, Brazzers, Tubes and such, could be easily legit with Cyprus there, before and in future, even if no one operation of Manwin it was run from Cyprus. I repeat it is legit for fully Non-European companies to have an empty office in Cyprus (or in any other EU country of choice) for just pay a VAT on euro sales.

This opinion of mine it is limited to VAT; of course if there's profits hidden in some way, this is another matter: tax on profit. But profits have to be found and assigned per subsidiary, and those are lost way of Cyprus->Delaware if any, especially mixed with Canada ones. But are we sure income was hidden yet? 362 million injected from Delaware->Cyprus as a loan, let me think, there is no real income to "hide" yet... the claimed 100 million pre-tax a year, it is still less than the loan injected. So all balanced, what income to hide? More likely to hide investments injection = expenses = temporary loss by the 100's investors who purchased the porn fund loan credit, via dozen of wall street institutions.

With the risk of being assaulted and hated on GFY, I wish Fabian & Family Merry Christmass, even I am atheist, let's call it a seasonal greeting. I wish merry x-mas to Die Welt, Der Spiegel and the Tax Prosecutors too, of course. and to Mike South

SKUP · 12-22-2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adultmobile

Now the article is online, it says what your friend "predicted":

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justi...-a-874174.html

It mentions a 19% German VAT TAX too.
Let me write a wikipedic opinion on Manwin's VAT, pardon me.

In Cyprus VAT it is 17% now, but it was 15% until March 1, 2012. Let european customers be billed from Cyprus instead of Germany, for all the years before of March 1, 2012: that's a 4% discount until, and 2% later. The main point it is, was it legit to use Cyprus or not? For the moment, only the newspaper decided it, not the tax guys yet, even they suspect it as jail order shows.

The VAT it is to be paid on all sales to european customers, no matter you are in loss. So even if TAX people agree you had zero profits, the VAT it is "value added" to price of all the sales (only made to european citizens). So you get $119 from customers, as German company you must pay $19 tax within a month, each month for all sales, no matter profit or loss yet. instead as Cyprus company, every $115 you pay $15 vat. Over $100 final price, the German 19% vat it is $15.96 ($84.04 for company + $15.96 vat as 19% of pre-tax price), while the Cyprus 15% vat of $100 final price it is $13.04 ($86.96 for company + $13.04 tax as 15% of $86.96).

Let the TAX guys decide that Cyprus it was unapplicable and had to be German VAT applied (again, despite newspaper articles implies it, no final judgement on this has sentenced yet). This automatically would mean mean 4% of vat tax evasion for all sales done for all past years, no matter profit or loss to be verified or even looked at. Limited to MyDirtyHobby, I read in newspaper it may have sold for 2 million euro a month, this is 24m a year, so 50m or 70m for past few years examined.

To make it easy, let consider 100m sales all in loss, no profit taxable. Cyprus VAT would be 13 million to pay, while as German VAT would be 16 million, so 3 million of tax evasion "only". So the 10 million of tax evasion claimed can't be exclusively the VAT for MyDirtyHobby. It should include other sites and/or the income. It was mentioned that Trafficjunky used Cyprus, and I suppose Brazzers/Jugg sales does same for european sales. But these are really run from a Canadian (non-european) company, office and employees, unlike MyDirtyhobby being apparently run from Hamburg office.

For true and pure USA, Canada, Australia ompanies, owned by non-EU citizens or companies, it is 100% surely legit to choice the country where to set a subsidiary to have an Euro VAT number, and Cyprus it is obvious and accepted choice. there is no any law that madating a Canadian citizen/company to choice Germany over Cyprus or France as domicile for european VAT subsidiary, this should be underlined, and made clear.

The new owner (managing partner) is a German citizen, so this may be questionable, but he purchase a real Canadian company who was really owned and run by canadians in Canada, and such it was kept operating "as is". This could be legit, I am unsure there's a German law saying if a German buys a Canada company with a legit Cyprus subsidiary for Euro VAT (I repeat, it is legit for non-eu companies), then he is forced to change Canada company subsidiary to Germany.

In short, limited to VAT issue (not in income/loss issue), I think defense for MyDirtyhobby against TAX it will be hard to be win, if tax proves it was setup and run from Hamburg (Germany)... there a Cyprus VAT it looks wrong. But (limited to VAT), a defense of what it was setup and operated from outside Germany or Europe (for real, and even before Fabian owned it), so Manwin Canada, Brazzers, Tubes and such, could be easily legit with Cyprus there, before and in future, even if no one operation of Manwin it was run from Cyprus. I repeat it is legit for fully Non-European companies to have an empty office in Cyprus (or in any other EU country of choice) for just pay a VAT on euro sales.

This opinion of mine it is limited to VAT; of course if there's profits hidden in some way, this is another matter: tax on profit. But profits have to be found and assigned per subsidiary, and those are lost way of Cyprus->Delaware if any, especially mixed with Canada ones. But are we sure income was hidden yet? 362 million injected from Delaware->Cyprus as a loan, let me think, there is no real income to "hide" yet... the claimed 100 million pre-tax a year, it is still less than the loan injected. So all balanced, what income to hide? More likely to hide investments injection = expenses = temporary loss by the 100's investors who purchased the porn fund loan credit, via dozen of wall street institutions.

With the risk of being assaulted and hated on GFY, I wish Fabian & Family Merry Christmass, even I am atheist, let's call it a seasonal greeting. I wish merry x-mas to Die Welt, Der Spiegel and the Tax Prosecutors too, of course. and to Mike South

The best way to kill a thread

adultmobile · 12-22-2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKUP

The best way to kill a thread

Hello Siep, Merry xmas to you too

DWB · 12-22-2012, 10:54 AM

Do Germans have to pay taxes (to Germany) on their world wide income?

SKUP · 12-22-2012, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adultmobile

Hello Siep, Merry xmas to you too

Ciao Fabio, giorni troppo piacevoli

MaDalton · 12-22-2012, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Do Germans have to pay taxes (to Germany) on their world wide income?

not if they are officially registered in another country and dont have any german income

as far as i know

SKUP · 12-22-2012, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Do Germans have to pay taxes (to Germany) on their world wide income?

Are you thinking to relocate to Germany?

DWB · 12-22-2012, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKUP

Are you thinking to relocate to Germany?

wouldn't be able to handle the winter.

omgt · 12-22-2012, 12:08 PM

merry christmas by the way

but what happened to the tax on the German workers income ?
because thats what was reported in the German papers as why this happened ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by adultmobile

Now the article is online, it says what your friend "predicted":

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justi...-a-874174.html

It mentions a 19% German VAT TAX too.
Let me write a wikipedic opinion on Manwin's VAT, pardon me.

In Cyprus VAT it is 17% now, but it was 15% until March 1, 2012. Let european customers be billed from Cyprus instead of Germany, for all the years before of March 1, 2012: that's a 4% discount until, and 2% later. The main point it is, was it legit to use Cyprus or not? For the moment, only the newspaper decided it, not the tax guys yet, even they suspect it as jail order shows.

The VAT it is to be paid on all sales to european customers, no matter you are in loss. So even if TAX people agree you had zero profits, the VAT it is "value added" to price of all the sales (only made to european citizens). So you get $119 from customers, as German company you must pay $19 tax within a month, each month for all sales, no matter profit or loss yet. instead as Cyprus company, every $115 you pay $15 vat. Over $100 final price, the German 19% vat it is $15.96 ($84.04 for company + $15.96 vat as 19% of pre-tax price), while the Cyprus 15% vat of $100 final price it is $13.04 ($86.96 for company + $13.04 tax as 15% of $86.96).

Let the TAX guys decide that Cyprus it was unapplicable and had to be German VAT applied (again, despite newspaper articles implies it, no final judgement on this has sentenced yet). This automatically would mean mean 4% of vat tax evasion for all sales done for all past years, no matter profit or loss to be verified or even looked at. Limited to MyDirtyHobby, I read in newspaper it may have sold for 2 million euro a month, this is 24m a year, so 50m or 70m for past few years examined.

To make it easy, let consider 100m sales all in loss, no profit taxable. Cyprus VAT would be 13 million to pay, while as German VAT would be 16 million, so 3 million of tax evasion "only". So the 10 million of tax evasion claimed can't be exclusively the VAT for MyDirtyHobby. It should include other sites and/or the income. It was mentioned that Trafficjunky used Cyprus, and I suppose Brazzers/Jugg sales does same for european sales. But these are really run from a Canadian (non-european) company, office and employees, unlike MyDirtyhobby being apparently run from Hamburg office.

For true and pure USA, Canada, Australia ompanies, owned by non-EU citizens or companies, it is 100% surely legit to choice the country where to set a subsidiary to have an Euro VAT number, and Cyprus it is obvious and accepted choice. there is no any law that madating a Canadian citizen/company to choice Germany over Cyprus or France as domicile for european VAT subsidiary, this should be underlined, and made clear.

The new owner (managing partner) is a German citizen, so this may be questionable, but he purchase a real Canadian company who was really owned and run by canadians in Canada, and such it was kept operating "as is". This could be legit, I am unsure there's a German law saying if a German buys a Canada company with a legit Cyprus subsidiary for Euro VAT (I repeat, it is legit for non-eu companies), then he is forced to change Canada company subsidiary to Germany.

In short, limited to VAT issue (not in income/loss issue), I think defense for MyDirtyhobby against TAX it will be hard to be win, if tax proves it was setup and run from Hamburg (Germany)... there a Cyprus VAT it looks wrong. But (limited to VAT), a defense of what it was setup and operated from outside Germany or Europe (for real, and even before Fabian owned it), so Manwin Canada, Brazzers, Tubes and such, could be easily legit with Cyprus there, before and in future, even if no one operation of Manwin it was run from Cyprus. I repeat it is legit for fully Non-European companies to have an empty office in Cyprus (or in any other EU country of choice) for just pay a VAT on euro sales.

This opinion of mine it is limited to VAT; of course if there's profits hidden in some way, this is another matter: tax on profit. But profits have to be found and assigned per subsidiary, and those are lost way of Cyprus->Delaware if any, especially mixed with Canada ones. But are we sure income was hidden yet? 362 million injected from Delaware->Cyprus as a loan, let me think, there is no real income to "hide" yet... the claimed 100 million pre-tax a year, it is still less than the loan injected. So all balanced, what income to hide? More likely to hide investments injection = expenses = temporary loss by the 100's investors who purchased the porn fund loan credit, via dozen of wall street institutions.

With the risk of being assaulted and hated on GFY, I wish Fabian & Family Merry Christmass, even I am atheist, let's call it a seasonal greeting. I wish merry x-mas to Die Welt, Der Spiegel and the Tax Prosecutors too, of course. and to Mike South

Herrmann · 12-22-2012, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omgt

but what happened to the tax on the German workers income ?

That´s completely their responsibility. You work in Germany, get paid, and therefore have to pay taxes.

The company that pays you is responsible for their taxes, esp. VAT. They don´t have to care for your taxes, but can not aid you at evading them.

In question - judging from the reports - is the company you have a contract with and the location of the work done. If you work in Germany for a company registered here, this company has to pay German VAT.

omgt · 12-22-2012, 12:49 PM

ok, when it first broke etc,
the papers were saying it was because they (the cyprus company) had'nt paid the tax on the German workers they had employed.
It was inferring or stating that tax (that was allegedly) due to the German authorities had been avoided (by fabian + the company) by paying the workers through the cyprus company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herrmann

That´s completely their responsibility. You work in Germany, get paid, and therefore have to pay taxes.

The company that pays you is responsible for their taxes, esp. VAT. They don´t have to care for your taxes, but can not aid you at evading them.

In question - judging from the reports - is the company you have a contract with and the location of the work done. If you work in Germany for a company registered here, this company has to pay German VAT.

adultmobile · 12-22-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omgt

ok, when it first broke etc,
the papers were saying it was because they (the cyprus company) had'nt paid the tax on the German workers they had employed.
It was inferring or stating that tax (that was allegedly) due to the German authorities had been avoided (by fabian + the company) by paying the workers through the cyprus company.

This is not called VAT, and it is not 19%: it is called wages tax and more complex to quantify. The VAT tax it is only on sales (purchases made by final european customers), nothing to do with employees or salaries. The wages tax (tax on income from employed work) it is when employer will deduct the amount of tax and social security contributions due from the employees salary at source: retained directly by the employer before the earnings are paid out to employee, and given to German govt. Then the employee may pay further personal tax on what's left, especially if he earned extras from other sources.

If the employer is a foreign country such as Cyprus, I would suppose zero wages tax it is paid to German govt, they may pay it to Cyprus govt. It depends what's the employment contract, people can be eemployed in many ways, and each got own tax rules. If people in Hamburg was employed stable way by Cyprus, never been in Cyprus, that may be questionable.

A similar case it is Ryanair airline, they employed all their italian staff from Ireland, where wages tax is smaller. Then Italy Tax guys argued: they're italian citizens working in italian airports, they're never in Ireland:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...325339094.html
http://www.ryanair.com/it/novita/gen-en-171012

It ended with this deal: who was employed before from Ireland can keep that way, but "from now on", the new italian employees must be hired by an italian subsidiary.
It seems, European internatinal taxation laws are quite weak and conflicting. i.e. a mess.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 12-22-2012, 02:35 PM

1200 Ways to Enjoy Xmas Out of Jail on Bail...

A little background music to listen to as you read this thread.

Mele Kalikimaka!

ADG

BareBacked · 12-22-2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You're leaving out the most important thing:
Gates and Zuckerberg were actually talented individuals who CREATED something that made their companies giants.

Fabian hasn't created anything to attain his status. To put his name in the same sentence as guys like Gates or Zuckerberg is a joke.

He's a 34 year old ex-programmer for NATS...and current, perhaps soon to be ex-frontman for whomever really owns Manwin as well as prisoner in jail.

Robbie · 12-22-2012, 05:24 PM

You have to keep beating that into people's heads. Just read some of the ignorant replies in this thread with people praising that idiot like he's on the same level as TRUE guys who have built a business.

Apparently they have to be reminded over and over who this guy really is.

J$tyle$ · 12-22-2012, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You have to keep beating that into people's heads. Just read some of the ignorant replies in this thread with people praising that idiot like he's on the same level as TRUE guys who have built a business.

Apparently they have to be reminded over and over who this guy really is.

You're right, Robbie - he didn't create those websites or invent the tube business or anything like that ... but (with no emotion - strictly from a business perspective) that certainly doesn't minimize the order of magnitude of what he's been able to create as a functionally profitable behemoth of a business OR make him an idiot IMHO

SOMEHOW (by leveraging OPM or however these deals were financed) what occurred was a systematic "roll up" of a tremendous portion of the highest trafficked sites and companies in the adult space, coupled with some incredible top shelf content driven membership sites and company acquisitions (Twisty's, RK and DP to name three) and the strategic licensing of the Playboy brand (both online and in the cable/satellite markets) - all the while vertically integrating everything, connecting all the dots and ultimately dominating traffic in the adult space in just a couple or so short years.

When I simply look at "the business side" and step outside of my own "bubble" I don't get emotional about how my own content licensing business suffered, became commoditized and its value became incredibly minimized. I looked at it logically back when I saw the writing on the wall. I decided it was no longer going to be worth my time in the near term and the window of opportunity for me would be closing. So, I played it out until it died and moved on to greener pastures BEFORE it did completely. That being said, of course I empathize with companies and individuals that have suffered a tremendous loss of traffic and/or revenues - and from a humanistic standpoint, I'm also sympathetic to those who couldn't or can't figure out how to how to stay in business and compete or move on to their own next thing(s) like I did.

However, just like any other maturing business - things change and unimaginably disruptive business models take the place of previously highly profitable ones. Historically, it almost always happens - and oftentimes most aren't prepared. That happened on a massive scale here and is definitely sad for many!

I'm not going to comment on Fabian's tax troubles or how tubes leverage loopholes in copyright laws - because what unfolds in regard to both still remains to be seen.

Anyway, I'll end my little diatribe here - regardless of what OR how you and I think ... obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion

omgt · 12-22-2012, 09:35 PM

yes, i see the difference between vat + wages tax, but at the begining they said it was wages tax - now it is vat, so it must have been a misunderstanding or whatever.

about ryanair - Michael O'Leary didnt get arrested when it happened did he ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by adultmobile

This is not called VAT, and it is not 19%: it is called wages tax and more complex to quantify. The VAT tax it is only on sales (purchases made by final european customers), nothing to do with employees or salaries. The wages tax (tax on income from employed work) it is when employer will deduct the amount of tax and social security contributions due from the employees salary at source: retained directly by the employer before the earnings are paid out to employee, and given to German govt. Then the employee may pay further personal tax on what's left, especially if he earned extras from other sources.

If the employer is a foreign country such as Cyprus, I would suppose zero wages tax it is paid to German govt, they may pay it to Cyprus govt. It depends what's the employment contract, people can be eemployed in many ways, and each got own tax rules. If people in Hamburg was employed stable way by Cyprus, never been in Cyprus, that may be questionable.

A similar case it is Ryanair airline, they employed all their italian staff from Ireland, where wages tax is smaller. Then Italy Tax guys argued: they're italian citizens working in italian airports, they're never in Ireland:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...325339094.html
http://www.ryanair.com/it/novita/gen-en-171012

It ended with this deal: who was employed before from Ireland can keep that way, but "from now on", the new italian employees must be hired by an italian subsidiary.
It seems, European internatinal taxation laws are quite weak and conflicting. i.e. a mess.

Robbie · 12-23-2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J$tyle$

You're right, Robbie - he didn't create those websites or invent the tube business or anything like that ... but (with no emotion - strictly from a business perspective) that certainly doesn't minimize the order of magnitude of what he's been able to create as a functionally profitable behemoth of a business OR make him an idiot IMHO

Yes J Styles...and if YOU were suddenly given over a hundred million dollars to spend, I am confident that you would run circles around what Fabian has done. Not meaning you would be a crook...I mean that you would have been able to run a business far better than him.

There are quite a few very competent business people on here who could easily duplicate that feat when "magic" money is being used.

As for what he did after that...again, it doesn't take a genius.

Piracy itself has crippled this industry. And that made companies like DP for instance, low hanging fruit to be bought for pennies on the dollar of their former worth.

I have zero respect for Fabian...with the exception of ONE thing:
He was somehow able to convince the real power behind this money that HE (an ex-programmer/failed paysite owner who wasn't really in the porn business) was the right guy to be the frontman.

That took some good "weasel skills".

Other than that...this has all been fun and games for this clown. He didn't work hard or build anything, and all he's had to do is spend money he didn't earn and/or money made off the backs of others through their vast piracy tube sites.

Nice gig if you can get it.

Three.Thousand · 12-23-2012, 06:10 AM

the problem is not that he owns all the big companies, the problem is not that he totally dominates all the traffic, got the amazingly weird big funding, didn't build it himself etc, the problem is that his sites and business model invalidates other peoples Exclusive business model/content due to theft and making money off of others as well as his own.

If anyone deserves respect its coolness of 4tube.com, he has shown its possible the legal way.

scottybuzz · 12-23-2012, 06:17 AM

according to Robbie because Fabian hasn't been on a porn set means that he does not deserve his success.

yeh, try getting the CEO of McDonalds to make a hamburger or the CEO of Mercedes to change a wheel.

livexxx · 12-23-2012, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottybuzz

according to Robbie because Fabian hasn't been on a porn set means that he does not deserve his success.

yeh, try getting the CEO of McDonalds to make a hamburger or the CEO of Mercedes to change a wheel.

Hmm, not sure I would agree 100% with that , Dieter Zetsche is the CEO of Mercedes and he spent 10 years in the research department after obtaining doctorate in engineering in 1982. So yes, I think he could not only change the wheel, but would be able to make it as well.

ilnjscb · 12-23-2012, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottybuzz

according to Robbie because Fabian hasn't been on a porn set means that he does not deserve his success.

yeh, try getting the CEO of McDonalds to make a hamburger or the CEO of Mercedes to change a wheel.

McDonald's CEO, Donald Thompson, is a bad example. He can and has flipped burgers.

Donald Thompson

Dieter Zetsche's first job was a beverage truck driver, and he speaks six languages, so he can change a tire.

mikesouth · 12-23-2012, 10:21 AM

Assuming he is free on bond we know they have him on a very short leash and I expect his handlers have told him to stay off gfy. So there is some satisfaction in knowing the egotistical little cock sucker and thief cant come on here and blow his horn.

Of course there's no shortage of sellouts doing it for him.

Life goes on....I expect it will get worse for him before it gets better. I also expect whatever happens his days of being front man at Manwin are over.

DWB · 12-23-2012, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottybuzz

according to Robbie because Fabian hasn't been on a porn set means that he does not deserve his success.

yeh, try getting the CEO of McDonalds to make a hamburger or the CEO of Mercedes to change a wheel.

Very bad examples.

SKUP · 12-23-2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Assuming he is free on bond we know they have him on a very short leash and I expect his handlers have told him to stay off gfy. So there is some satisfaction in knowing the egotistical little cock sucker and thief cant come on here and blow his horn.

Of course there's no shortage of sellouts doing it for him.

Life goes on....I expect it will get worse for him before it gets better. I also expect whatever happens his days of being front man at Manwin are over.

And now a lot of other hornblowers will take their moments of glory

GonZo · 12-23-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKUP

And now a lot of other hornblowers will take their moments of glory

If your tired of this song Siep, I have new ones about Payserv we can sing.

SKUP · 12-23-2012, 11:07 AM

Again? Just start singing, maybe we like the song. Give it a shot.

GonZo · 12-23-2012, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKUP

Again? Just start singing, maybe we like the song. Give it a shot.

Are you sure?
Its in honor of all the CEO talk about an arrogant cock sucker porn CEO that cant speak english, that also has an anti piracy association while licking the nuts of the biggest pirate of them all for 10K.

For added mystery we sprinkle in a forum and load it with stolen content.

Roald you and your family can sing along to if you like.

If your sure you want to hear it maybe Ill start a new thread but you might want to make sure and check with Roald and his bro first.

SKUP · 12-23-2012, 11:16 AM

Just start that thread. Give it to the world. You might surprise me and at this time of the year I like surprises. So, no I won't ask Roald or Erwin, just give it to the community. You owe it to them.

SKUP · 12-23-2012, 11:19 AM

BTW I am going out for dinner now, so I will be looking at it tomorrow

GonZo · 12-23-2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKUP

Just start that thread. Give it to the world. You might surprise me and at this time of the year I like surprises. So, no I won't ask Roald or Erwin, just give it to the community. You owe it to them.

I dont owe GFY shit.
But let me tune up the band. Promise you wont cry and call foul because your were to arrogant to realize I dont sing songs I already know the words to?

GonZo · 12-23-2012, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKUP

BTW I am going out for dinner now, so I will be looking at it tomorrow

Ok winkey boy. Enjoy your creme brulle.

The name of the song is
vintage-erotica-forum.com

SKUP · 12-23-2012, 11:24 AM

But, be careful, you might be at the point of saying things you can't back up. And I am sort of curious why Mike didn't bring your "scoop"? Did he think it was BS? Well, come on, get it in the open.

SKUP · 12-23-2012, 11:26 AM

whhahahahahahahha, that was long before I entered this industry. So what ever. Only thing I know is: some Australian guy has a double agenda as well. Really going to enjoy your new thread. Give it your best

GonZo · 12-23-2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKUP

But, be careful, you might be at the point of saying things you can't back up. And I am sort of curious why Mine didn't bring your "scoop"? Did he think it was BS? Well, come on, get it in the open.

Your amusing.
Maybe youve guessed by now Im not Stephane Pacaud either.
Does your wifey let you wear your gangsta hoodie when you go out for dinner too?

As far as Mike goes. Ask him. You didnt waste anytime crying about me before.

DWB · 12-23-2012, 12:04 PM

And the thread takes another turn.

slapass · 12-23-2012, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J$tyle$

You're right, Robbie - he didn't create those websites or invent the tube business or anything like that ... but (with no emotion - strictly from a business perspective) that certainly doesn't minimize the order of magnitude of what he's been able to create as a functionally profitable behemoth of a business OR make him an idiot IMHO

SOMEHOW (by leveraging OPM or however these deals were financed) what occurred was a systematic "roll up" of a tremendous portion of the highest trafficked sites and companies in the adult space, coupled with some incredible top shelf content driven membership sites and company acquisitions (Twisty's, RK and DP to name three) and the strategic licensing of the Playboy brand (both online and in the cable/satellite markets) - all the while vertically integrating everything, connecting all the dots and ultimately dominating traffic in the adult space in just a couple or so short years.

When I simply look at "the business side" and step outside of my own "bubble" I don't get emotional about how my own content licensing business suffered, became commoditized and its value became incredibly minimized. I looked at it logically back when I saw the writing on the wall. I decided it was no longer going to be worth my time in the near term and the window of opportunity for me would be closing. So, I played it out until it died and moved on to greener pastures BEFORE it did completely. That being said, of course I empathize with companies and individuals that have suffered a tremendous loss of traffic and/or revenues - and from a humanistic standpoint, I'm also sympathetic to those who couldn't or can't figure out how to how to stay in business and compete or move on to their own next thing(s) like I did.

However, just like any other maturing business - things change and unimaginably disruptive business models take the place of previously highly profitable ones. Historically, it almost always happens - and oftentimes most aren't prepared. That happened on a massive scale here and is definitely sad for many!

I'm not going to comment on Fabian's tax troubles or how tubes leverage loopholes in copyright laws - because what unfolds in regard to both still remains to be seen.

Anyway, I'll end my little diatribe here - regardless of what OR how you and I think ... obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion

QFT. You can't help but be impressed.

The shit thing is he is abusing the DMCA law. It is obvious to me as an outsider that it is not all uploaded by random folks. His business model does not work unless people upload copyrighted material. Maybe the moves to be more legit will continue and the guy will own the porn internet in a real way that is unassailable.

BareBacked · 12-23-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottybuzz

according to Robbie because Fabian hasn't been on a porn set means that he does not deserve his success.

yeh, try getting the CEO of McDonalds to make a hamburger or the CEO of Mercedes to change a wheel.

Well said...

Robbie · 12-23-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BareBacked

Well said...

LOL! Several posts have already shown that was NOT well said!

Look...my point is that when you run a business, you need to have some actual experience in what you are doing. Especially if you are going to be like Fabian and run around pretending that you are something you are not.

Henry Ford not only started The Ford Motor Company, but he knew how to build a car from the ground up and also instituted the "assembly line".

In our business, Hugh Hefner isn't just some "suit". He's the guy who was behind the camera in the beginning. Working his ass off, learning his craft, taking the risks...he's not some phony suit.

I wouldn't respect Fabian even if he were not running the biggest pirate sites in the world and helping to destroy the incomes of so many hard working people. But throw THAT on top of him being nothing more than a frontman...and I have nothing but disdain for him.

If you "admire" him...then I don't know what to say that isn't insulting to you. And since I don't want to insult you, I won't comment on that.

But I'm not built that way. A thief is a thief. And a blind man can see what has happened to this industry over the last 4 years due to piracy.

Roald · 12-23-2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonZo

Ok winkey boy. Enjoy your creme brulle.

The name of the song is
vintage-erotica-forum.com

When was that sold, 5 years ago or so?

I'm singing, hope you enjoy it cause you can not pin anything on me with that.

Always had high respect for you Gonzo, not sure but you might want to check your sources here before you continue Merry Xmas!

MaDalton · 12-23-2012, 01:04 PM

cant we have a christmas cease fire?? even in both world wars we had that ;)

Roald · 12-23-2012, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

cant we have a christmas cease fire?? even in both world wars we had that ;)

I'm not fighting so not needed for me ;)

Cheers!!

GonZo · 12-23-2012, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald

When was that sold, 5 years ago or so?

I'm singing, hope you enjoy it cause you can not pin anything on me with that.

Always had high respect for you Gonzo, not sure but you might want to check your sources here before you continue Merry Xmas!

You know me Roald I always vet what Im doing before I start singing.

Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.
And to clarify I have nothing on you with that most certainly.
But you know who it was sold to and the terms of the sale.

Sorry if a little sensationalism splattered on you as thats not my intent.

GonZo · 12-23-2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

cant we have a christmas cease fire?? even in both world wars we had that ;)

Merry Christmas to you as well Ma!

Roald · 12-23-2012, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonZo

You know me Roald I always vet what Im doing before I start singing.

Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.
And to clarify I have nothing on you with that most certainly.
But you know who it was sold to and the terms of the sale.

Sorry if a little sensationalism splattered on you as thats not my intent.

To be perfectly honest with you I don't know who it was sold to. I was never involved in it nor with the company who started it. I never looked at it really and heard recently it turned into some piracy forum.

Anyway merry Xmas!!!

adultmobile · 12-23-2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

And the thread takes another turn.

The topic it is "tax evasion", and it was discussed by a minority of posters enough in detail to have most readers skip the full texts. There's not much to add on the topic, except to wait new german press releases and articles to translate.
But since the start, most posts are offtopic: "Fabian is not a real pornographer", "tube business model it works only if based on copyright theft", "everyone would have done better than Fabian if got a $360 million loan", "Fabian is too fat", and so on.
Fabian is out of jail but unlikely he will post here (even if he may read), simply as all what he posts will be re-published in most negative context as possible by german journalists.
So, offtopic level is now upgraded by targeting a couple of Dutch guys who are not running tubes and not into Cyprus tax schemas.
Further, the "Fabian Thylmann RELEASED from jail" thread it is competing, some guys bump this "jailed" and some the "released" threads, like a wish or bet what one will be the final to bump, next year.

To honor the GFY tradition of offtopic and sci-fi talks, let me write mine: if I had convinced a number of christian funds and republican banks to invest a few hundred million dollar in porn... no tubes! They're unstable as 1) legally questionable 2) easy to launch and copy by competitors, so 3) Short term.
I would have purchased instead all the biggest cam sites only, and not feared antitrust.
Use Alexa stats, see there's xhamster, xvideos and so many other no Manwin ones, all together get a multiple of the Manwin traffic, resold by exoclick and others, so I disagree that Manwin "dominates" even the tube traffic.
About content producers, if they all cry for lower sales every year, it means that's not where to invest for long term growth, I would have purchased no one.
About dating, someone may remember Manwin had SexInYourCity, and it was closed as soon as Mansef sold. This was wise: local (adult, ged laid) dating it is available for free with Plentyoffish, Badoo or even Facebook, even a manager of a big adult dating site told me as confidence in ICQ he thinks "there's no big future for paid porn facebooks".
Othererwise, the AFF stocks wouild do better, and they're another one with $250+ million loan debt, unsure they would have paid so much the affiliates (most of which was the early tubes, if you remember) otherwise. Funny enough you guys blame Fabian for tubes proliferation, but it was $250 million of AFF bank loan first, then $360 million of Manwin loan after, to feed tubes in various ways, so it was the christian banks really.
Of course I'm into cams so take my above offtopic as purposely not neutral.

mikesouth · 12-23-2012, 04:01 PM

It isnt Tax Evasion it is Tax Fraud evasion is a mistranslation.

Now to me the difference personifies Fabian....how many people has he defrauded and outright stolen from.....

I sincerely hope he lands back in jail for a while....same as I was happy when Florida executed Ted Bundy even though I am usually against the death penalty. Some people need to be shown that we will not tolerate their behavior Fabian is very near the top of that list for me.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 12-23-2012, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

It isnt Tax Evasion it is Tax Fraud evasion is a mistranslation.

Now to me the difference personifies Fabian....how many people has he defrauded and outright stolen from.....

I sincerely hope he lands back in jail for a while....same as I was happy when Florida executed Ted Bundy even though I am usually against the death penalty. Some people need to be shown that we will not tolerate their behavior Fabian is very near the top of that list for me.

Good thing for Fabian that you're not Santa...

Although Fabian would prolly just try to capture the lump of coal market...

ADG

12-21-2012, 11:45 PM	#1152
charlie g Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Center of the Universe Posts: 2,758	poor guy. I sure hope he gets what is just and deserved __________________ AlanAgus1 at gmail dot com -------------------------------

12-22-2012, 02:35 PM	#1165
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	1200 Ways to Enjoy Xmas Out of Jail on Bail... A little background music to listen to as you read this thread. Mele Kalikimaka! ADG __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare) Last edited by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude; 12-22-2012 at 02:36 PM..

12-22-2012, 05:24 PM	#1167
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,842	You have to keep beating that into people's heads. Just read some of the ignorant replies in this thread with people praising that idiot like he's on the same level as TRUE guys who have built a business. Apparently they have to be reminded over and over who this guy really is. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

12-23-2012, 06:17 AM	#1172
scottybuzz Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Location: NY Posts: 14,801	according to Robbie because Fabian hasn't been on a porn set means that he does not deserve his success. yeh, try getting the CEO of McDonalds to make a hamburger or the CEO of Mercedes to change a wheel. __________________ $$$$$ MAKE HUGE MONEY IN CAMS - CLICK HERE $$$$$

12-23-2012, 10:21 AM	#1175
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,346	Assuming he is free on bond we know they have him on a very short leash and I expect his handlers have told him to stay off gfy. So there is some satisfaction in knowing the egotistical little cock sucker and thief cant come on here and blow his horn. Of course there's no shortage of sellouts doing it for him. Life goes on....I expect it will get worse for him before it gets better. I also expect whatever happens his days of being front man at Manwin are over. __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

12-22-2012, 10:54 AM	#1156
DWB Giggity Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: S.E. Asia Posts: 31,779	Do Germans have to pay taxes (to Germany) on their world wide income?

12-23-2012, 06:10 AM	#1171
Three.Thousand Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: UK Posts: 287	the problem is not that he owns all the big companies, the problem is not that he totally dominates all the traffic, got the amazingly weird big funding, didn't build it himself etc, the problem is that his sites and business model invalidates other peoples Exclusive business model/content due to theft and making money off of others as well as his own. If anyone deserves respect its coolness of 4tube.com, he has shown its possible the legal way.

12-23-2012, 11:07 AM	#1179
SKUP Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 400	Again? Just start singing, maybe we like the song. Give it a shot.

12-23-2012, 11:16 AM	#1181
SKUP Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 400	Just start that thread. Give it to the world. You might surprise me and at this time of the year I like surprises. So, no I won't ask Roald or Erwin, just give it to the community. You owe it to them.

12-23-2012, 11:19 AM	#1182
SKUP Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 400	BTW I am going out for dinner now, so I will be looking at it tomorrow

12-23-2012, 11:24 AM	#1185
SKUP Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 400	But, be careful, you might be at the point of saying things you can't back up. And I am sort of curious why Mike didn't bring your "scoop"? Did he think it was BS? Well, come on, get it in the open. Last edited by SKUP; 12-23-2012 at 11:27 AM..

12-23-2012, 11:26 AM	#1186
SKUP Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 400	whhahahahahahahha, that was long before I entered this industry. So what ever. Only thing I know is: some Australian guy has a double agenda as well. Really going to enjoy your new thread. Give it your best

12-23-2012, 12:04 PM	#1188
DWB Giggity Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: S.E. Asia Posts: 31,779	And the thread takes another turn.

12-23-2012, 01:04 PM	#1193
MaDalton I am Amazing Content! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Cheque Republic Posts: 39,788	cant we have a christmas cease fire?? even in both world wars we had that ;) __________________ AmazingContent.com - providing only the best content and service since 2003 Monetize your content on Veegaz.com - one of Germanies largest VOD sites Skype: madalton02826 - Email: oltecconsult [at] gmail [dot] com

12-23-2012, 04:01 PM	#1199
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,346	It isnt Tax Evasion it is Tax Fraud evasion is a mistranslation. Now to me the difference personifies Fabian....how many people has he defrauded and outright stolen from..... I sincerely hope he lands back in jail for a while....same as I was happy when Florida executed Ted Bundy even though I am usually against the death penalty. Some people need to be shown that we will not tolerate their behavior Fabian is very near the top of that list for me. __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.