In reality you'd be able to cut much more and do better by cutting most things 10-15% than by cutting some things 100%...

The one thing I'd cut immediately 100% is the drug war. Putting people in prison for years and costing a ton of money because they sold pot is crazy, especially when we could tax legal sales instead...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...gn_aid#Amounts $52.7 billion Some of this money goes to people working in the US. Even those working in offices. How much of it comes in US goods or goes back into US banks is to be guessed. How many jobs will be lost?

And let China fill the gap. :Oh crap How many jobs will be lost?

Yes and do what with the money?

#4 - TSA - What a joke. Pay an army to stripseach 80 year old women who are flying from Iowa to Georgia to visit their grandchildren.

How am I doing so far?

So increase the over sight. Or would you let the needy starve?

So if you don't understand what it's for, cut it. How many jobs will be lost? :1orglaugh

Like those watching the banks and oil drilling. How many jobs will it cost? You have to be specific in cutting. How many jobs will be lost? :upsidedow

Will it be more expensive and how many jobs are lost?

How many jobs will be lost?

What Minte has done is looked at the problem with a lot of bias and little thought. Cutting out expensive useless and wars that made the balance of power in the Middle East worse, would be a great idea. It would cost jobs in factories producing the arms though and Haliburton wouldn't like it.

And there's the truth. A lot of the money spent fighting Bush's illegal wars went to private enterprise. Minte owns a factory that gets some US Government contracts. What if the US Government decided to cut the spending or if the overseas aid helps a country to build a plant using his products?

Cutting farmers subsidies is good, especially if they're paid not to grow food. They should be paid to grow food that can be turned into fuel.

His attitude is clearer in the cut Food Stamps part.

So because 2% are defrauding the system. Let the 98% go hungry. :Oh crap

Still cuts have to be made, taxes have to be raised and the Governments have to invest in the future.

And THERE is the answer! All of you people on here crying for the govt. to wipe your ass for you and worrying about how much money other people are making...start thinking about your own life and what you are doing.

Getting soft drugs out of the hands of criminals by legalising it, would save a lot of money and create tax revenues. Like prostitution, legalise and regulate it. The regulation to be paid for by the legal brothels.

In fact a lot of the regulation should be funded by the industries and with them having zero influence or control. Why should the tax payer pay for regulating industries to make sure they do the right thing?

Still back in the real world. It's never going to happen. :Oh crap

Minte you're wasting your time answering that question to Paul. I already did that and instead of accepting my answer on what I would do...he did exactly what he did to you just now.

He goes off on your answer with more questions all spawned from his fantasy world of "theories" about how things work.

It's just a never ending waste of time.

When it comes to politics...Paul appears to be one of those "doom and gloom" people who feel that it's all up to govt. to take care of us. We are simply helpless children.

Trump goes on Letterman and rips Obama for China then Dave pulls out all Trumps shitty products made there lol

yet you and minte and all the other romney cheerleaders are saying obama hasn't done enough, so perhaps its people like yourself that expect too much from government. perhaps you should stop focusing on the governments failure rate and worry about your own success rate..:helpme

That was pretty funny.

But the flip side of it is this: If Trump had the ties made in the U.S. they would be so expensive nobody would buy them. :(

I think we should be looking at all the reasons that companies go to places like China to make products. Yeah, I know we can't compete with their labor costs. But we could do other things to make business more attractive here in the U.S.
Lower taxes for one. Fed, state, and local govt. making it easier and less expensive for business to operate is another one.

Instead of being angry at companies for leaving the U.S., let's create an environment where they won't want or need to leave here. Make it so that the U.S. is the BEST place to manufacture and that is where the jobs will go.

I saw that happen with my own two eyes in the 1990's when South Carolina brought BMW to the upstate of South Carolina. They did it by giving them tons of concessions on taxes and fees. The economy roared back to life when that plant went into production making BMW Z3 sports cars. People got good high paying jobs and it trickled down over the entire Greenville/Spartanburg area.

That is how you get companies to manufacture locally instead of going to China. You make it more attractive for them financially.

Maybe this is the answer Paul wants to hear.

We go to every city in the US.. We identify all the needy and drain on society people. We line then up in a long row, then shoot every third one and tell the other 66% still standing we will be back for another pass in 6 months. It's to their benefit not to be back in this line.:)

I'm not a Romney cheerleader.

I am an EX-Obama voter (2008) who is pissed at what he hasn't done.

I'm finished voting for Republicans too. Their social agenda is way too restrictive of my personal freedom.

And both parties are warmongers.

I'm voting for Gary Johnson and the Libertarian Party. Matter of fact, I'm going down today to vote early.

If anything...in the contest between Obama and Romney...I'm a ANTI-Obama-Cheerleader.
Obama is the President. I'm not going to judge Romney because he is NOT the president and hasn't disappointed me...yet.

I do believe that Romney will turn the economy around much faster than lame ass Obama can. But neither of these clowns is getting my vote.

The government should stop threatening to take *a little more* from people that do work hard and have become successful.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Unfortunately...there is NO answer for Paul.
He has no real position and no answers himself.

He's just trolling and trying to piss people off. :(

That's not true at all. They make ties in the US and they aren't expensive at all. Hats too.

What you mean to say is "It increases Trump's profit margin if he has them made in China and them shipped to the us".

It increases the profits is the operative phrase. The people that own the stocks only invest their money into companies that make a profit. There is a reason, the market is at 13,000 and unions don't have much to do with that.

= I can't find an answer so will just flame.

You can try looking after yourself and good luck with your attempts. Got an island sorted out to go live on?

The truth is very different. we all rely on the Government in one way or another and way they get it wrong, we suffer. They got it wrong with regulating the banks and fucked the World's financial system. They fucked regulating the oil drilling in the Gulf and fucked the people living down there.

I don't expect the Government to look after me totally. I expect them to build a structure I can look after myself in. We rely on that structure a lot more than you think. Because apart from the actual money that goes overseas and never comes back. All Minte's cuts mean lost US jobs. This will mean more people needing the Government to look after them unless you want them to starve. It will mean less money being spent in the shops and more jobs lost there. Those who are losing jobs might be some of your members. So you will get a pay cut as well.

No Government goes $16 trillion into debt without making the people of that country believe they are far better off than they really are. Cutting that debt by cutting jobs will lead to ruin. Ask Greece.

The only answer is better spending and more taxes. Yes, go back to the tax levels of Clinton and repay the debt without massive job losses. Anyone who believes cutting taxes leads to more jobs, is kidding himself. If it were true the US would have a glut of jobs. It used to work like that in days before Disco Music.

Your answer was cut the military to the bone. China would love that. Or do you kid yourself they wouldn't fill the vacuum? Cut it back yes, make it more cost efficient, yes. It will cost jobs. Put the money into teaching and investing in the long term. Like a subsidy for US manufactured solar panels. So less reliance on carbon fuels for power.

Sales tax like VAT, so the end domestic user pays the tax. Would work great on Gas.

This is the future. http://www.teslamotors.com And where Governments need to be concentrating. http://www.thedailygreen.com/living-...funding-460609

No one wore ties before they were made in China. :1orglaugh You really do need to think before posting.

And here we have it. Why should anyone who earns more pay more for the structure that allowed him to become successful. And yes it did. Because if you didn't have the structure of the country around you, you would be tilling the soil. So long as you didn't need to take them to the market to sell them.

And there's the flip side. No one who has worked hard, been successful and lost his job because they decided making ties in China were cheaper, expect to get looked after.

Ad the people profiting by throwing other Americans out of a job, should be expected to pay to look after them. Or is it all down to :321GFY and greed?

I say tax those imported goods, when they hit the docks, and let those taxes support the people thrown out of a job. Shit the Wall Street Bankers won't like that one little bit. Like we should care about them.

Do these answers on my position piss you off?

You are so goddamn dumb Paul.

I lived in the upstate of South Carolina from 1992 to 2008. Watched all the textile mills there shut down and move to China. Basically the majority of the fabrics industry in the U.S. moved to China.

How about YOU think before you post. You act like a fool when you keep posting about shit you don't know.

Please Paul...can't you PLEASE stay in your section: https://gfy.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54

Don't you have your hands full arguing with other idiots over there already?

The country already has lost millions of jobs. In a few more years the huge incentive that China offers in savings will have vanished. Chinese aren't working for a bowl of rice and an attaboy anymore. It's estimated that by 2016 the pay in China will equal the minimum wage in the US. China has built an economy on the backs of US workers. As China evolves from a producer nation to a consumer nation they will use more of their own production capacity to satisfy their own needs.

Jobs are already coming back from China. We are making parts again in our factory that we lost to China a decade ago. And it won't stop. What manufacturers here have learned is effieciency. From design to manufacturing through shipping. We don't leave much to chance.
We sell things to China. A few years I bought more than I sell there. Today it's just the opposite.

Bottom line. Government does not produce jobs. Private industry does. And if private industry is not regulated and taxed to death we know how to do it well. Just hope the government stays the hell out of the way.

No problem.

Romney needs to take a stand. I think he should stop all foreign aid, close down most military bases around the world, stop farm subsidies, get rid of the TSA, stop food stamps, remove all government regulatory agencies, and shut down the USPS.

In the process he would loose the support of all Jews (who get the most aid), any one who has families in the Middle East, Asia, or South American (whom all get some kind of aid from us), he'll loose support of millions in the military and their dependents, loose the vote from all of the farmers and pretty much the mid west, lost the vote from everyone on welfare or food stamps or any kind of federal support, loose the vote from anyone working in a union or insurance or medical fields, and when he shuts down the USPS he'll lost the vote of all of the postal workers, their dependents, as well as a lot of other government employees.

At that point... The only people who will be voting for him will be rich white business owners most likely of european orgins. In other words, people like... People like you Minte.

I agree with you on a lot of points here, but the reason it doesn't get done is because the moment you make a statement like "Let's stop all foreign aid" suddenly pissed off the entire Jewish population plus pissed off every government in the world.

This is why shit doesn't get done.

Yeah, here's a tie maker here in the U.S. Real nice ties. Not shitty ties. Click on the neckties and check the price. Some of us here actually wear nice clothes from time to time: http://www.beautiesltd.com/category/neck-ties

And does it really matter to you that in increases Trump's profit margin? That's the whole point isn't it?
Would you make 50 cents when you could make a dollar simply by manufacturing in the most profitable way?

Why would you (or anybody else) demonize smart business practices? It's not the fault of a business that they can make more money by producing in another country.

It's the fault of greedy govt. (local, state, and federal) who keep their filthy hands on your wallet and shake you down on the local level with fines and fees and paperwork and taxes that CAUSE it to be more expensive to produce here.

It seems to me that our society went from anti-govt. protestors in the 1960's/1970's to a bunch of pro-govt. sheep in the present day.

I understand why things don't get done. Paul, nagged me for a list of things I would do to make a good dent in the deficit. That was as much of a list I could type up in 15 minutes.

So your saying the only for a company to make a profit is to have it made in China? They can't make ties in the United States and be cost effective?

I disagree: http://americanmadeyes.com/clothinga.../mensties.html

LOL...did you go to that website?
The first tie maker's link to their website doesn't work (out of business?)
The second one makes novelty "military" looking ties (camouflage and that type of thing)
The third one is cheap ties
The fourth one is the one I cited earlier. Hundred dollar ties.

The real question here is why are all of the $20 ties beyond ugly? You need to spend at least $50 to get a decent looking tie.

Sometimes I wonder if that's done on purpose. New conspiracy for GFY to look into?

No, you are saying that. If you are going to participate in this discussion it would have merit if you actually read some of it.

The tie debate is just one example of how the world is changing and it's effect on many.

Huge numbers of jobs have gone to countries where it's cheaper to produce them. This has given a few a lot of profit and many lose their jobs.

So what's the solution?

Tax those who have jobs and those who make a lot of money so they can make sure those who have lost out, can still have a job. Yet a job that contributes to the good of the country they live in.

Cut taxes, borrow money to make up the difference. to make sure there are still jobs for those who lost out.

Cut taxes, don't borrow, let those who lost out rot and lose a huge swathe of buying Americans?

We were all brought up on the ethic of fending for ourselves, making our own way in life and not relying on others. More so for me than for many here. This ethic comes from a time when there were jobs to be had, today the world has changed.

Yes there are some jobs to be had, but if an employer will pay an illegal immigrant so little it's better for a person to stay on welfare. Why should he go to work? The solution to this is simple.

Yes there are people who abuse the system, like business men abuse the system. Do you make 98% suffer because of the 2% of abusers? The solution to this is simple.

Sandy hit the East Coast and devastated it, no one is saying they shouldn't get Government Funding. A bigger storm has hit the West, the storm of cheap imports and lost jobs. Should we ignore the victims, so a few can be a little bit better off?

We have been fed an illusion and myth that we can spend our money better than the Government can. Well can we?

Will we adopt a pensioner, invalid, or someone who has lost a job or a policeman, or fireman, a street light, a part of a motorway, part of a pavement or anything that our taxes are spent on.

Or will we buy a bigger car of a silk tie and say screw the rest because I need a silk tie to drive to work on my free road in my big swanky car?

Thanks for reminding me, I am clearly in need of some new silk ties. As soon as my assistant gets back from washing my new Mercedes S-class I think some shopping might have merit. :)

Wow. I guess there's nothing more to say about Paul's ideas at this point.

I'm buying a bigger car because I spent the last 10 years working 60 hours a week, pouring every penny into investments and projects, while neglecting living a decent life. No vacations. Few friends. Few luxuries. Little "fun", as others put it? (Although the joke is on them, because I love it.)

Damn straight Paul. I'm buying me a nice car. Going on a nice vacation. Eating great food. And hey, I'll probably take a friend along with me. And yes, I'll fight paying more taxes to an inefficient, wasteful government every chance I get.

It's a pity that you don't have enough money left and need to depend on your government. During your successful years, you should have saved or invested better. Depending on everyone else to take care of you when you grew old was a selfish, shameful, and pathetic move. You should have respected your daughter's generation better. Now she will grow up, bust her hump, and have little to show for it because she will need to drop dollar after dollar into taxes to pay for the older folks, like yourself, that were too selfish to prepare for their later lives.

You will go shopping. The Government will employ people so they can go shopping.

The Government doesn't make the money disappear, I'll bet money some of your members are are employed directly or indirectly by the Government.

Or didn't you think of that?

Sly such a twisted post doesn't warrant a reply.

So because of fear of people losing jobs we should borrow more money so more people can get work?

No you should be paying more taxes. Stop voting for people promising tax cuts, that will mean your children picking up the debt on. Go calculate the unemployment rate by cutting the debt. It might give you an idea of how your theory will work.

Debt $16 trillion.
Reduce debt by $1,6 trillion a year over a 10 year period.

How many jobs will have to go to save $1.6 trillion a year?

And you deserve it.

But let's say you were doing this and it all went pear shaped because the Bankers, fucked your investments. Should you be thrown on the scrap heap.

You mean pay it to make sure more aren't thrown on the scrap heap. The Government doesn't keep your money, it shares it around and some of it ends back in your pockets. Unless you never sold anything to anyone who had no connection directly or indirectly with the Government purse. Which is pretty remote.

Nice delusion. Truth is I did save, I invested in very long term pensions which in 2008 when I saw this start, I cashed in and saved what I could at the height. Still get money from them and I actually pay taxes on my pensions. This year I got a tax rebate. :thumbsup

I'm not lumbering my daughters generation with massive debts. We pay the right taxes here. The reason for the huge debts is laid firmly at the feet of GW Bush. He cut taxes and spent like crazy. On wars. Deregulated the banks and then they crashed.

The reasons for the debt is plain. Politicians buying your votes with a promise of lower taxes. AND not stopping the spending. Bush started it, Obama is carrying it on and Romney is going to do nothing to change. you're being bribed with money your children will be repaying.

best post I have seen on this forum in years

How much should I be paying? 10-20-30-40-50-60% ?

Remember I pay taxes on everything I buy, $5000 Luxury tax on my car, 8% sales tax, property tax ..

If you tax me too much off the top, then I won't be paying as much on the other taxes.

As the country live in and the Government you voted for. Enough to make it necessary to get the country back on an even keel.

Sacking people to repay the debt, isn't an option.

The problem with these debates is one side keeps saying "It's not my fault, so I don't need to pay." Truth is you if you don'y want your kids to pay.

How do you determine what is "ENOUGH"

Real world time. :thumbsup

The US is $16.25 in debt and rising. As Minte says it has to stop. He's spot on. We disagree over how it stops. Yet stop it must.

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/debtclock.jpg

$51,565 per citizen or $141,556 per tax payer.

This is because of GWB, Wars, Bank Crisis, Obama not raising taxes and the US living beyond it's income. The Tax revenue for 2012 is estimated at $10 trillion, 2012 is estimated at $11 trillion because of rising employment.

To cut it by cutting spending will be hard, but it's going to have to be part of the mix. Let's look at it.

$16.25 / 10 years = $1.65 a year. US GDP is $15.09 trillion a year. Cut the money spent in the US by 11%. Yes that's what cutting means. It will lead to devastating losses in the online porn industry, retail, luxury goods, house prices, in fact everything. And here's reality.

Let's just say for arguments sake. Every job cut costs the Government $16,500 a year. Do the maths to see how many jobs the US would need to lose. And yes, the goods being bought those employed people are using, are other peoples jobs. Sack an office worker, you buy less office equipment, less fuel for the heating or air conditioning. Sack a fireman, less uniforms, fire engines to buy.

Then all those people without a job are no longer spending money in shops, so they have to fire someone.

AND, yes it's a big and. These people now unemployed are going to want Social Security, Medicare, food stamp and people to administer the system of giving them the money. In extreme cases Child Welfare.

All because those with jobs, don't want to pay more taxes. AND, they will have to because those unemployed are now no longer paying taxes. Probably the US will need to borrow some more to fill the gap, unless you pay 50% more taxes.

I didn't bother to check the maths, because only a few top economists will know for certain. So unless you have the real figure. It's the example of what will happen if they try to cut their way to reduce the debt.

There was a case today on the News about UK Government waste. It wasn't but the papers made it look like it. A politician had his pet snake stuffed and put up in his office as a trophy. Waste or bad spending?

Well a UK taxidermist is now $16,000 richer and spending the money to keep his family fed. In honesty its selfish and bad spending. but like most Government spending goes from one pocket to another. Money circulates, it never stops.

So income tax rises by, careful cuts on overseas spending, careful Government spending on imported goods, sales tax, tax on imported goods. Yes Killer, you will have to tighten your belt. OR LET YOUR CHILDREN TIGHTEN THEIRS.

Now don't reply with bitching it solves nothing. How will you stop dumping the debt for your affluent life style on your descendants? Because the $16 trillion went into the US economy and made a lot of people better off.

It won't matter a damn who is responsible or who think is to blame for the debt. The fact is you will have to repay it. Dad run up his credit card, and the children, grandchildren and great grand children will have to pay off the debt.

With $2 billion being spent to buy the Presidency, you can bet money. The contributors won't be paying. And they're 1% of the 1%. Probably less than that.