Never said "Obama" I said Federal Govt.

If you don't think that spending almost 11 billion dollars a day and borrowing over 3 billion dollars a day is not destroying our economy...then I respectfully disagree.

It has been happening before Obama took office and it is happening WHILE Obama is in office.
No hope or change happened. :(

Romney isn't the "problem". The elected officials in office right now (executive and legislative) are the problem. Romney isn't the one spending almost 11 billion dollars per day. Romney isn't the one in a position to make moves to better the climate for business.
The lifetime career politicians in the House and Senate are the problem

And as for tax returns...if it's such a big deal..then why not make it the law? Right now it's not. And never has been. And was never done in an election until Richard Nixon VOLUNTARILY released his. Tax returns don't have anything to do with the problems our country is facing and are only being screamed about so the Obama campaign can continue to use class envy in the election to fire up people.

Let's get these candidates off of this direction and start demanding they discuss the issues and some REAL solutions instead of the right wing horseshit from Romney and the left wing horseshit from Obama.

Maybe it's time to give this guy a serious look.
Why isn't he included in the upcoming debates?

http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/front

I thinks its he doesnt poll high enough. I think thats what they base it on.

Kind of a vicious circle. He gets zero press coverage and isn't allowed in the debates. If third party candidates were given that then they would obviously poll better.

Kinda sad that we end up electing our President's based on polling data and determined by the media. :(

No, but it is perhaps the largest part of measuring a candidate.

Being as unpopular a figure as Romney is and winning a national election would require an incredibly well-credentialed candidate... and Romney is definitely not that either. :Oh crap

Look what he did when he headed the Olympic committee in Utah while running the most expensive Olympics in US history by far. Look at what he did as Governor of Massachusetts, expanding the cost of social programs including Romneycare. He is the son of a former Presidential candidate and Governor of Michigan... you think he is not part of the same small group of Washington insiders? He isn't coming in with clean hands. He isn't a fresh, new, different choice. He is more of the same, but with a bustout and burn history of bankrupting companies to profit from their access to credit.

That's exactly the wrong pedigree for our next president if what you want is someone to get our debt under control. Which is why Republicans never wanted to vote for him in the primary, until they saw the list of retards that ran against him. :2 cents:

Romney lobbied for federal funds for the olympics.

Shouldn't he have? And didn't Obama (unsucessfully) travel to lobby to try and get an Olympics games here a couple of years ago?

As I understand it, whomever was in charge of the Olympics had already ran through all the money and time was running out and it was about to be a disaster. Romney quit his job at Bain and came in and oversaw the successful games.

Just because you get money from the govt. doesn't mean you can be successful unless you are good at what you do. Just look at all the bailout money that the govt.. threw out over the last 4 years that didn't pay off. Some did, some didn't.

From what I read....he got $1 billion dollars for The Olympics to be fixed and successful in Salt Lake City.
In other words about 1/10th of what the Federal Govt. is spending PER DAY every day.

Why are you guys worried about that anyway? Why don't you guys get pissed at the career politicians in Congress?
Many of them are the same ones who have been sitting in office for decades and are the REAL cause of the economy collapsing.

I guess you're ignoring them because they might belong to your preferred political party.

We're all being screwed while you guys are carrying on about the Olympics and dogs on a car and Bain Capital.

This is why our country is fucked. Nobody is really paying attention. We are being conned and distracted.

Just got the mail from the mail box.

Nice letter from my health insurance company (Blue Cross/Blue Shield) letting me know that in Nov. they will be raising my premiums AGAIN.

Fucking unreal!

I could swear we were all told that our insurance was going to go DOWN.
Fucking politicians and their payoffs from insurance companies....:(

How did I miss this gem...
Really Tom..percentages? Is that really how it's done?
Odds are high you will never have to concern yourself with a 7 figure tax bill,but if you did, you would then understand.

The people that work for me aren't peasants. They are employees. And in most cases well treated and respected people. It's clear my assessment of the bitter blue collar mentality on this board hit a nerve.

'For Profit' necessities are an idiotic idea. When you have a heart attack you don't shop around for a good deal on surgery. You don't choose which hospital to go to, nobody asks if you have 'out of network' coverage. We don't pool medical data to improve effiincency or reduce costs. We don't produce inexpensive drugs and we give incentives to marketing ways that calm symptoms rather than cure causes. Making profit the primary motivation of medical care and food by propping up private industries around them is an absurd paradigm.

Health care should be a single payer system designed to maximize efficiency and provide the best possible care at the lowest possible cost. It will be eventually... The cost trends make it inevitable... It's just taking much longer than it should for us to evolve. 100 years from now people will look back at out for profit healthcare system like we look back at those who claim they had no idea smoking was bad for their lungs. Obamacare doesn't fix the problem and the status quo before it was as bad or worse. We already pay for everyone to have healthcare... We just do it in the least efficient most expensive way possible because the 'health industry, has a good lobbying effort.

What are you whinning about ....

You are in a free market society : you can pay it , shop elsewhere and not pay it ... ain`t it great !!!!

i think 47% is a little low .... i'm thinking more like 99% :1orglaugh

Dude, there are thousands of people in china just like you talking about how they worked for Steve jobs.
:1orglaugh

And yeah, we all gave a testimonial for the retarded kid because we're nice. Cyndalie even got you in the door for some of the places she wrote for and you thanked her by under under cutting her and stabbing her in the back.
Create any story you want her on a chat board, it doesn't change the fact that you're a bottom feeder who works for pennies and pretends it's meaningful.

Ronald,

You may have noticed... This is a thread about the Presidential campaign. Not a thread about you lying again. In other threads you tried to claim you didnt supply a testimonial, now you have caught yourself in another lie. Thats the problem with your lying, you fail to keep your stories straight. Ive never stabbed Cyn in the back, and i dont know what you even mean by undercutting her. Another lie from you. Your act is old, stale and sad. The link I posted proves the point and saves me from having to re-argue your stupidity all over again thankfully.

Now, what can you contribute to this political discussion? As someone who publicly and passionately predicted Giuliani would win last time and Newt would win this time, your completely misguided read on the populace always amuses me. So far you have contributed nothing constructive to this conversation, much like Romney has contributed nothing constructive to the election campaign since beating a farce of 'competitors' at the GOP primary this time around. What's your analysis of the 2012 elections?

But it ain't a free market. You can't buy health insurance across state lines (cuts out competition) and the laws concerning medical malpractice basically FORCE your doctor to order expensive tests that they may not think you need, further driving up all costs.

No...if it was more of a free market I would definitely already have changed insurance companies. But it doesn't work that way. :(

EDIT: One Hundred 53 Percenters who are NOT hopeless losers on GFY

You have a choice to pay lower taxes in the form of capital gains. It's your own fault if you don't take advantage of all the legal ways to reduce your own taxes. Don't expect anyone to think highly of you because you choose to pay more. If you have a problem with it, do something else for a living.

I think you're right.

BUT....if it happens, the health insurance industry goes belly up overnight.

And there is way too much money involved for that and too many politicians in Washington D.C. lining their pockets with that money.

Fuck it...the best thing is to vote EVERYBODY out after one term and reset this thing. The President and every member of Congress and the Senate. One and DONE.

Right, because it's much better to waive doctors responsibility from any malpractice. Do you have any proof of this bullshit you spew?

Or even two and done. Career politicians are a problem, but you only exacerbate it with citizens united, special interests, lobbyists, etc... and you keep preaching in their favor instead of trying to cut them out at least, a little by little.

One of the reasons I voted for Obama was he swore once he was President that lobbyists would be OUT of Washington.

Instead he did a complete flip-flop and there are more lobbyists and special interest money in Washington, DC than EVER.
It's very, very disappointing to me.

I don't know that he even tried either, but I know a vote for Romney is in the wrong direction if that's what you're looking for. A spiteful vote against Obama for not getting it done already, isn't going to make it happen.

You need to tone that shit down a fucking notch and not act like a jackass toward me during a discussion.

If you want "proof" just ask your doctor if he is required by his very, very expensive malpractice insurance to run unnecessary tests that you don't really need.

And in case you haven't paid attention to past political debates on this subject...yes tort laws for medical malpractice needs to be reformed.

I never said that a doctor shouldn't have responsibility...but like so many things in our society, it went too far and drives up medical costs.

If you want to convince me, then show me some proof. Otherwise, I'm left to believe that you're making it all up. If you don't want to back up your statements, don't bother making them in the first place.

Maybe the insurance companies require certain tests or not, before they'll pay for procedures, etc... but that's something different.

The last time I applied for it, I was denied insurance. I have nothing wrong with me to my knowledge, and I can afford to pay for the health insurance. I had an undiagnosed issue when I saw the doctor, and he didn't know for sure if I had diverticulitis or not. My attorney had the same issue, because in the past X years he had taken statins briefly to lower his cholesterol. He no longer does, and doesn't have a cholesterol problem. The system is bullshit.

I have no way to convince you.

This has been a subject of debate for a long time in politics concerning health care costs. I could only assume that you would have heard that before. If not, then I can't convince you of it.

Believe what you want. I'm not trying to force you to think what I think. I'm just discussing what my experiences have told me.

I have a couple of buddies who are doctors and I listen to them as well on the subject. But again, I'm kinda shocked that anybody who keeps up with the news wouldn't be aware of the debate over tort reform that has went on for years.

So just disregard what I'm saying and if you want to think I'm just making it up (why I would make up shit like that I have no idea lol) that's your prerogative. :)

That doesn't have to be true. A single payer system that provides basic care for everyone... But that leaves plenty of room for supplemental insurance beyond the basics, it allows high end patients to hire the best doctors for cash if they choose, it leaves open a wide market for amenities and extras if people choose to purchase them. If a person has a heart attack they should get absolutely 'free' care paid for by government revenue. That doesn't mean they get a private room at the hospital, a fancy rehab facility, etc... Those things would all be extras covered by supplemental insurance or cash if people choose to pay for them. That's a very large market for private industry.. It just doesn't include billing people for necessary medical care, basic wellness, prenatal care, etc...

Wouldn't it be easy to find facts to support your statement? You made it as if it were a simple fact, easily proven.

Just use some common sense... if something goes wrong, the doctor could get sued, and if he does, he needs to be able to prove that he did everything "by the book", even though some test may have not really been required in this particular case...

It's called defensive medicine. If a doctor orders three times the number tests that are really necessary to diagnose a problem prior to choosing a course of treatment, he's far less likely to get sued in the event that something goes wrong.

Providing, of course, that the treatment he renders is consistent with what the tests indicate.

Think of those additional tests as additional witnesses testifying on behalf of the doctor in a court of law.

I don't want to make assumptions. I want factual studies that prove this is a recognized effect and the most important reason for higher medical costs.

use google for yourself. I'm not your slave. :pimp

"A total of 824 physicians (65%) completed the survey. Nearly all (93%) reported practicing defensive medicine. ?Assurance behavior? such as ordering tests, performing diagnostic procedures, and referring patients for consultation, was very common (92%). Among practitioners of defensive medicine who detailed their most recent defensive act, 43% reported using imaging technology in clinically unnecessary circumstances."

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article....ticleid=200994

India, Germany, England, Wales, etc..
"Malpractice lawsuits do not affect the delivery of health care in the countries included in this report, and are not a subject of controversy."
http://www.loc.gov/law/help/medical-...omparative.php

Sweet, I'll make all kinds of bullshit statements from now on and just use that statement as proof. "Google it, pimp!"

Remember I said it was a "debate" over tort reform. And like EVERY subject...insurance companies will subsidize studies to prove whatever point will make them the most money.

I said...it needs to be examined and reformed. Not completely stopped.

But every politician seems to be in the pocket of insurance companies...I hope you don't want me to "prove" that too, I can't.

" 79 percent said they had ordered more tests than they would have based only on professional judgment of what was medically needed, and 91 percent had noticed other physicians ordering more tests

74 percent had referred patients to specialists more often than they believed was medically necessary

51 percent had recommended invasive procedures such as biopsies to confirm diagnoses more often than they believed were medically necessary

41 percent said they had prescribed more medications, such as antibiotics, than they would have based only on their professional judgment, and 73 percent had noticed other doctors prescribing medications similarly"

http://www.aaos.org/news/bulletin/ja.../clinical2.asp

Public Citizen, a consumer group, used available data from the National Practitioner Data Bank (obtainable from the federal government) and reports that in 2011 medical malpractice claims reached a new low, in contrast to the continued rise in health care costs.
http://www.smillaw.com/blog/2012/08/...re-costs.shtml