Ryan wants to eliminate Pell Grants for more more than 1 million students

[astronaut x]

Ryan wants to eliminate Pell Grants for more more than 1 million students. Ryan?s budget claims both that rising financial aid is driving college tuition costs upward, and that Pell Grants, which help cover tuition costs for low-income Americans, don?t go to the ?truly needy.? So he cuts the Pell Grant program by $200 billion, which could ?ultimately knock more than one million students off? the program over the next 10 years.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/20...ate-paul-ryan/

[L-Pink]

Why give away my tax money? Let the students take out loans like everyone else.

.

[baddog]

Sorry, but we can not afford to continue with some programs. Apparently, that is what Romney understands that Obama does not.

[PornoMonster]

I know several who abuse this. They even have all these online schools, that offer accelerated classes to be able to work around the system and get 3 payments in a year instead of 2, and they only go to 3 hours of class 3 days a week, HAHA.
the people I know are NEVER going to do anything with the college it is just to get the money!

[onwebcam]

It's actually very true. When colleges receive government grant money for tuition they have to set the price of tuition to whatever the government says.

[PornoMonster]

Hell, the Money I Earned from being in the military I had to go to school 15+ hours a week and carry a C average or I didn't get my money!

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

It's actually very true. When colleges receive government grant money for tuition they have to set the price of tuition to whatever the government says.

How can I get you avatar, full size???

[epitome]

College is a waste of money for most people. I make more than many graduates and didn't go a single day.

If you want to be a doctor, nurse or lawyer then yeah, go for it. Otherwise just go to work and out perform your coworkers or start your own biz and work smart and hard.

[topsiteking]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

It's actually very true. When colleges receive government grant money for tuition they have to set the price of tuition to whatever the government says.

[DWB]

I didn't get hand outs. Sorry about their luck. Welcome to life.

Originally Posted by baddog

Sorry, but we can not afford to continue with some programs.

QFT

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

How can I get you avatar, full size???

Don't know if I have one full size I'd have to hook up and fire up the dinosaur IBM and have a look around. You can try and increase the size in an editor. It shouldn't distort it too much. Or you can use this one and edit the text in an editor http://media.indypgh.org/uploads/200...nce.jpgmid.jpg

[epitome]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

Don't know if I have one full size I'd have to hook up and fire up the dinosaur IBM and have a look around. You can try and increase the size in an editor. It shouldn't distort it too much. Or you can use this one and edit the text in an editor http://media.indypgh.org/uploads/200...nce.jpgmid.jpg

http://buelahman.files.wordpress.com...difference.jpg

Found a slightly larger one that appears to be a little cleaner but couldn't find larger than this.

[Linguist]

Ehh, one million less people with college degrees, who cares. Can't afford the wars and education, something's gotta give. Should be fine in the long run anyway.

Just gonna leave this here. Whether you agree or disagree, will be interesting to see what happens down the road:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/op...he-future.html

[pornmasta]

USA is a third world country.

Who cares ?

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by epitome

College is a waste of money for most people. I make more than many graduates and didn't go a single day.

If you want to be a doctor, nurse or lawyer then yeah, go for it. Otherwise just go to work and out perform your coworkers or start your own biz and work smart and hard.

I'm not sure if I'd say college was a waste for me or not. I have two small associates degrees from a college no one has ever heard of. My college education was outdated shortly after I graduated. However, without my college education, I would not have been able to get my job at Playboy. So my little college degree paid for itself seven times over.

[Far-L]

Pell grants are an investment in the future brain trust of the country and rich white people like Ryan that never had to worry about money for college have zero clue what it takes for someone less privileged to have access to an advanced education.

[_Richard_]

if tuition prices have been going up, and the jobs are there but the skills aren't, wouldn't it make sense to simply trying to lower the cost of tuition prices?

frankly, increasing the cost of education isn't going to save the USA and in extension the western world

decreasing it would, and it be something the rest of the world would refer to as an 'investment'

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I'm not sure if I'd say college was a waste for me or not. I have two small associates degrees from a college no one has ever heard of. My college education was outdated shortly after I graduated. However, without my college education, I would not have been able to get my job at Playboy. So my little college degree paid for itself seven times over.

Ah, valid point I guess. I guess I never saw the value because I got most of my jobs through networking. I'd find the "in" to an interview and then sell myself during that interview so they'd take a chance on me and overlook some of the "requirements."

You also did it smart though and went to college and didn't go to a four year ivy league university for some stupid shit like a "history degree" that leaves you qualified to be a receptionist if you do not go into a field that would require such a degree.

[kane]

Originally Posted by epitome

Ah, valid point I guess. I guess I never saw the value because I got most of my jobs through networking. I'd find the "in" to an interview and then sell myself during that interview so they'd take a chance on me and overlook some of the "requirements."

You also did it smart though and went to college and didn't go to a four year ivy league university for some stupid shit like a "history degree" that leaves you qualified to be a receptionist if you do not go into a field that would require such a degree.

Long ago when I worked for a big tech company they would not promote you past a certain level unless you had a degree. It was a stupid policy because there were people who had been there 10 years and really knew the job well that didn't get promoted, yet others that had been there 2 years with a degree in a field that had nothing to do with the industry got promoted. So in many corporate environments having the degree can help you even if it is in some crazy field.

[mynameisjim]

The reality is that the unemployment rate among the college educated is around 4.1%.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm

I will leave it up to you to decide whether or not going to college is important.

[astronaut x]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Why give away my tax money? Let the students take out loans like everyone else.

.

"Sixty percent of students who receive Pell grants also take out loans ? twice the rate for college students overall ? so they might be doubly hit by the Ryan cuts: In addition to receiving less Pell money, they would have to start paying interest on their loans while still in school."

[astronaut x]

Originally Posted by baddog

Sorry, but we can not afford to continue with some programs. Apparently, that is what Romney understands that Obama does not.

So you wish to live in a less educated America, with more poverty and higher crime rates?

Please explain how massive cuts in education will not result in this.

You seem to be a self centered old fart anyways, why would you care about the long term prosperity of this country?

Maybe you envision some sort of metropolitan tent city for these people, cordoned off from the land of milk and honey you see yourself living in?

[astronaut x]

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

I know several who abuse this. They even have all these online schools, that offer accelerated classes to be able to work around the system and get 3 payments in a year instead of 2, and they only go to 3 hours of class 3 days a week, HAHA.
the people I know are NEVER going to do anything with the college it is just to get the money!

So you are saying you surround yourself with thieves?

Please explain how this so called "scam" works and how these people are actually taking money and being able to spend this money on anything other then an education? If that is the case, then there should be restrictions put in place. You don't just yank out opportunities for people to get off the welfare system.

We are talking about 1 million people here by the way.

I happen to know a woman with three children, who was on food stamps, who used pell grants to become an accountant. After getting a job, she was able to raise those three children. Two of those kids went on to go to college themselves and the third will going next year.

Without Pell grants, none of that would have been possible. 1 person received pell grants, and 4 benefited from it (so far). Completely life changing for that entire family and most likely generations to come.

[astronaut x]

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Hell, the Money I Earned from being in the military I had to go to school 15+ hours a week and carry a C average or I didn't get my money!

That was your choice.

BTW, Not everyone is able to just pick up and join the military.

Some people happen to be single women with mouths to feed.

Some people happen to have lost their jobs to outsourcing and are too old for the military.

That seems to be an ongoing problem with you so called "conservative" thinkers. It's all about you and your immediate world. You do not have the ability to relate to people who are struggling and are faced with other circumstances.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by baddog

Sorry, but we can not afford to continue with some programs. Apparently, that is what Romney understands that Obama does not.

So can you explain why it will save money for the US please.

Because it will mean sacking teachers, less people employed, more people on benefits. AND less deserving, qualified students from the less able to pay. Staying where they belong. Looking after the rich.

Education is the future for Western Countries. Education of those who deserve it, can make the most out of it, can make the grade to get the grants and grab the opportunity with both hands and along with their country benefit from it.

Not for an elite few who frankly IMO, think it's a right reserved for the rich. What did Bubba get out of his education?

Did Sarah Palin go to college?

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by astronaut x

That was your choice.

BTW, Not everyone is able to just pick up and join the military.

Some people happen to be single women with mouths to feed.

Some people happen to have lost their jobs to outsourcing and are too old for the military.

Some people are simply physically unfit to join the military. And judging by the rate of obesity, more and more are becoming unfit by the day.

[astronaut x]

Originally Posted by DWB

I didn't get hand outs. Sorry about their luck. Welcome to life.



QFT

Some people choose to be content because they like it.

Others, well, they stick their hand out and end up in front of your camera in order to survive.

Why would anyone question your lack of compassion toward other human beings? You have made a living from poverty stricken people and of course want to keep it that way.

[astronaut x]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So can you explain why it will save money for the US please.

Because it will mean sacking teachers, less people employed, more people on benefits. AND less deserving, qualified students from the less able to pay. Staying where they belong. Looking after the rich.

Education is the future for Western Countries. Education of those who deserve it, can make the most out of it, can make the grade to get the grants and grab the opportunity with both hands and along with their country benefit from it.

Not for an elite few who frankly IMO, think it's a right reserved for the rich. What did Bubba get out of his education?

Did Sarah Palin go to college?

Baddog is too busy riding in limos and sailing around the world making million dollar hosting deals with Romney and Trump to worry about the future of his own country.

[astronaut x]

Originally Posted by epitome

College is a waste of money for most people. I make more than many graduates and didn't go a single day.

If you want to be a doctor, nurse or lawyer then yeah, go for it. Otherwise just go to work and out perform your coworkers or start your own biz and work smart and hard.

College is a waste of money when there aren't any jobs available.

Givin Romney's track record of being a professional outsourcer, it certainly makes sense to cut education, seeing as he will be shipping the jobs those graduates would need overseas.

[mynameisjim]

There is one difference I've noticed between the two parties.

It's that liberals do at times vote for things which will not benefit them personally, they do it for the common good. Conservatives NEVER vote for anything that won't benefit them personally. That's why the whole concept of "trickle down" is so appealing to conservatives. Basically it says, make me happy and maybe things will work out for you, if it doesn't work out for you, at least I'm still happy and my advantage over you is probably even greater now.

It's the same way conservatives feel that the best way to get rich people to do the right thing is by giving them every tax break and opportunity they want and removing every regulation. On the other hand, they think the only way to get poor people to do the right thing is to take everything from them and putting stipulations on everything, then maybe they will realize they don't want to be poor anymore, as if it were a choice. Do you see how they treat rich humans and poor humans as two totally separate creatures? One needs to be nurtured and coddled, the other needs "tough love" and to be punished in order to yield the same result.

I'm not saying liberals always make the right choice, but they do at least sometimes vote outside their personal interest because they feel it's the right thing to do. Conservatives never do that, at least not anymore.

BTW, there is NOTHING wrong with voting for your own interests above all else, that's totally fine. But don't pretend it's for the good of the country or make up some rationalization that you are helping others but they just don't realize it yet. That's what the Ryan budget is, it fucks over a lot of people just to help a few who need no help at all.

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by astronaut x

That was your choice.

BTW, Not everyone is able to just pick up and join the military.

Some people happen to be single women with mouths to feed.

Some people happen to have lost their jobs to outsourcing and are too old for the military.

That seems to be an ongoing problem with you so called "conservative" thinkers. It's all about you and your immediate world. You do not have the ability to relate to people who are struggling and are faced with other circumstances.

You Missed the fucking point.
Hey, where is the DAD if you want to go all out, oh prob in jail getting 3 squares, better food than the military.

Yeah I Chose to Defend your Freedom ( or grant) ha, I Chose to WORK, and earn my living and education and Take Loans and Earn scholarships.

YES, there are people that need these, and Yes there should be restrictions.
The school gets 60% of the check then 40% goes to Living expenses or some crap like that.
One, half of these BS online schools should be shut down. You should have to Prove you did something with the money and got your Real degree. and or so on. I already explained what they did, you read it and replied.. You are just so closed minded you didn't read it and went on and on about a person who needed it.

Oh, and I am a single father with 2 children that live with me full time, Thanks!

[tony286]

Mean while in Europe, India and China they go free and then people actually wonder why we are losing our edge.

[MaDalton]

education should not cost money for those who receive it - it's an investment of a society into its own future

(sorry for my socialist outbreak here)

[Relentless]

Yeah it will be really awesome when other countries have much better educated workforces than ours.
Then they can export jobs to us.
Maybe our grandchildren can assemble the iPhone 13s!

#idiocracy

[Phoenix]

i never got a hand out....i got a loan from the government which i had to pay back

[tony286]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

education should not cost money for those who receive it - it's an investment of a society into its own future

(sorry for my socialist outbreak here)

You are right, a man who came out of our free college system. For the brief time when we had it was Andrew Grove a cofounder of intel.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by astronaut x

Some people choose to be content because they like it.

Others, well, they stick their hand out and end up in front of your camera in order to survive.

Why would anyone question your lack of compassion toward other human beings? You have made a living from poverty stricken people and of course want to keep it that way.

1) What my profession is has NOTHING to do with this debate, but thanks for being a hater and knowing so much about me. Unfortunately, I have no idea who you are or what you do.

2) Always a hoot to see someone throwing the moral stone in the porn business. Hypocrisy at its best. As if the girls I work with are any different than the girls anyone else works with. Everyone has a choice. They ALL do it for money.

But since you brought it up... before I worked in "poverty stricken" areas and exploited poor exploited sex slaves from Ebola infested areas, I produced in the USA for almost 10 years and shot MANY college students and even a few graduates, just as anyone else who produces porn has. So your argument is what again?

Look, the world will always need ditch diggers. That is just a fact of life. But because I do work in "poverty stricken" areas, I see people rise out of real poverty (something most Americans have no idea about) and find a way to go to school, then go to college, and have a good career. I know "poverty stricken" people who take a bus 2+ hours each way to go to work every day, working 12+ hours a day, so that their kid can go to a good school. So I could give two fucks about spoiled Americans who think they are entitled to anything, especially an education. They are not.

Everything in life comes with hard work, discipline, and more hard work. No excuses. Either you make it or you don't. A few make it on luck. If you can catch a break and get some money from the government, good for you, take it!!! If you can't, tough luck. Work harder or go dig ditches. This is life.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

i never got a hand out....i got a loan from the government which i had to pay back

And that is the way it should work if you're unable to get free money.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by tony286

You are right, a man who came out of our free college system. For the brief time when we had it was Andrew Grove a cofounder of intel.

my study didnt cost me a dime - besides books etc. of course

we do have student loans (with zero interest) for those whose parents are too poor to help them with accomodation etc. - but i didnt qualify for that. so i worked part time to pay my flat, car etc.

when i started studying i had already worked a couple of years and earned good money before. if i had known that at the end of my study i would be sitting there with $50k or $80k debt, i would have never studied at all.

[slapass]

Does that work out to 200k per person? Maybe the system is so inefficient that it needs to be scrapped? On the flip side that is about one day of the military budget so maybe we could works something out?

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

There is one difference I've noticed between the two parties.

It's that liberals do at times vote for things which will not benefit them personally, they do it for the common good.

Yeah, California is a great example of Liberals in action. So many tax dollar wasting programs for the common good. How can they be paid for? Meh.... who cares. Just need to do the popular thing because its an easy win and why worry about financial and economic consequences??

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by DWB

1) What my profession is has NOTHING to do with this debate, but thanks for being a hater and knowing so much about me. Unfortunately, I have no idea who you are or what you do.

2) Always a hoot to see someone throwing the moral stone in the porn business. Hypocrisy at its best. As if the girls I work with are any different than the girls anyone else works with. Everyone has a choice. They ALL do it for money.

But since you brought it up... before I worked in "poverty stricken" areas and exploited poor exploited sex slaves from Ebola infested areas, I produced in the USA for almost 10 years and shot MANY college students and even a few graduates, just as anyone else who produces porn has. So your argument is what again?

Look, the world will always need ditch diggers. That is just a fact of life. But because I do work in "poverty stricken" areas, I see people rise out of real poverty (something most Americans have no idea about) and find a way to go to school, then go to college, and have a good career. I know "poverty stricken" people who take a bus 2+ hours each way to go to work every day, working 12+ hours a day, so that their kid can go to a good school. So I could give two fucks about spoiled Americans who think they are entitled to anything, especially an education. They are not.

Everything in life comes with hard work, discipline, and more hard work. No excuses. Either you make it or you don't. A few make it on luck. If you can catch a break and get some money from the government, good for you, take it!!! If you can't, tough luck. Work harder or go dig ditches. This is life.

a society should try to find the smart people and help them - for their own benefit

and completely unrelated to the wealth of the parents

[DWB]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

my study didnt cost me a dime - besides books etc. of course

we do have student loans (with zero interest) for those whose parents are too poor to help them with accomodation etc. - but i didnt qualify for that. so i worked part time to pay my flat, car etc.

when i started studying i had already worked a couple of years and earned good money before. if i had known that at the end of my study i would be sitting there with $50k or $80k debt, i would have never studied at all.

+1 socialism

So long as it is more important to police the world instead of educating the future of the nation, the USA will continue to lose and fall as a nation.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

a society should try to find the smart people and help them - for their own benefit

and completely unrelated to the wealth of the parents

The wealth of the parents should never be an issue. If the kid doesn't measure up, go flip burgers or make porn. I don't believe in handouts for such reasons, but I do think everyone should be given a chance to prove their worth and have a chance to go for free based on their grades, achievements, and/or service to their community, not if they can afford it or not. That would be the most fair way to do it. You have to earn it. If you don't have what it takes, you don't go.

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by DWB

The wealth of the parents should never be an issue. If the kid doesn't measure up, go flip burgers or make porn. I don't believe in handouts for such reasons, but I do think everyone should be given a chance to prove their worth and have a chance to go for free based on their grades, achievements, and/or service to their community, not if they can afford it or not. That would be the most fair way to do it. You have to earn it. If you don't have what it takes, you don't go.

And that's just about as realistic as true communism.

[pornmasta]

the gvt paid my studies and now i'm an adult webmaster.
Sure studies are the road to success...

But anyway it is better to have an educated population. Only bigots need uneducated people.

[London Banker]

Originally Posted by astronaut x

Ryan wants to eliminate Pell Grants for more more than 1 million students. Ryan?s budget claims both that rising financial aid is driving college tuition costs upward, and that Pell Grants, which help cover tuition costs for low-income Americans, don?t go to the ?truly needy.? So he cuts the Pell Grant program by $200 billion, which could ?ultimately knock more than one million students off? the program over the next 10 years.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/20...ate-paul-ryan/

More liberal propganada bullshit, I followed the link trail, and of course, huffington post. Fuck you and your "progressive" smear campaign of lies and distortions, a democrat specialty.

(P.S. Too many college kids already. This is a good thing.)

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by pornmasta

the gvt paid my studies and now i'm an adult webmaster.
Sure studies are the road to success...

But anyway it is better to have an educated population. Only bigots need uneducated people.

if you pay more taxes than an uneducated worker it was worth it though - i guess

in my case it's worse - i studied for free, founded my company, employed people, paid taxes and then the stupid laws in Germany made it impossible to stay there. Now i pay taxes and employ people in another country and the german government doesnt get a single cent from me. idiots.

[Tom_PM]

Just stop production of a few bombers and stop giving money to the most profitable and rich corporations the earth has ever known and oh by the way how about everyone pay a fair tax from rich to poor?

[woj]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

There is one difference I've noticed between the two parties.

It's that liberals do at times vote for things which will not benefit them personally, they do it for the common good. Conservatives NEVER vote for anything that won't benefit them personally. That's why the whole concept of "trickle down" is so appealing to conservatives. Basically it says, make me happy and maybe things will work out for you, if it doesn't work out for you, at least I'm still happy and my advantage over you is probably even greater now.

It's the same way conservatives feel that the best way to get rich people to do the right thing is by giving them every tax break and opportunity they want and removing every regulation. On the other hand, they think the only way to get poor people to do the right thing is to take everything from them and putting stipulations on everything, then maybe they will realize they don't want to be poor anymore, as if it were a choice. Do you see how they treat rich humans and poor humans as two totally separate creatures? One needs to be nurtured and coddled, the other needs "tough love" and to be punished in order to yield the same result.

I'm not saying liberals always make the right choice, but they do at least sometimes vote outside their personal interest because they feel it's the right thing to do. Conservatives never do that, at least not anymore.

BTW, there is NOTHING wrong with voting for your own interests above all else, that's totally fine. But don't pretend it's for the good of the country or make up some rationalization that you are helping others but they just don't realize it yet. That's what the Ryan budget is, it fucks over a lot of people just to help a few who need no help at all.

They try to achieve "common good" by different means...

Democrats want to achieve it by taxing successful people more and then using that $$ to provide benefits to less successful people...

Republicans on the other hand tend to support policies that benefit the entire economy...

like for instance, the proposal that OP brought up, clearly if implemented this policy will benefit everyone, $200B will be saved which will have positive impact on the entire economy...

one may counter that 1 million people less will get education, which seems like a negative effect, but is that really true? 1 million different people will probably get education instead, or those 1 million may instead choose to finance their education using different means...

so overall likely same number of people will get educated and we will all save $200B..