Outsource vs Doing - GoFuckYourself.com

beks001 · 06-23-2012, 09:18 AM

I've been thinking of outsourcing actually wp setups and blog development vs doing myself. I think it's time to take a chance and reinvest more versus spending time building. Just curious if most of you do this aspect on your own or outsource it? Seems trying to reach 100 built out is tough alone

Barefootsies · 06-23-2012, 09:36 AM

You need to know where you true skillsets and value are. I know for myself, I am better at sales, marketing, and the creative vision. I am more productive, and can generate more income and value for my business doing what I am good at versus that I am not.

I could do a lot of things myself, and have years ago. But where it could take me 4-8 hours to do something, an expert could do it in 1-2 hours. Typically for a few hundred bucks. What could I have been doing with those extra 6 hours to generate more money?

If you do not have the money, do it yourself. But if you can afford it, outsource.

DWB · 06-23-2012, 09:36 AM

Just be careful to make sure you're not spending all your time managing the outsourced people. It can be time consuming and counter productive if you get the wrong staff.

beks001 · 06-23-2012, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

You need to know where you true skillsets and value are. I know for myself, I am better at sales, marketing, and the creative vision. I am more productive, and can generate more income and value for my business doing what I am good at versus that I am not.

I could do a lot of things myself, and have years ago. But where it could take me 4-8 hours to do something, an expert could do it in 1-2 hours. Typically for a few hundred back. What could I have been doing with those extra 6 hours to generate more money?

If you do not have the money, do it yourself. But if you can afford it, outsource.

Always quality feedback barefootsies! Thanks and getting ads out there now to outsource! To save a few hundred bucks and do myself and take a week part time to do minimum I could have them running an making $$$ instead in a day or two.

thanks for the kick in the pants

Barefootsies · 06-23-2012, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Just be careful to make sure you're not spending all your time managing the outsourced people. It can be time consuming and counter productive if you get the wrong staff.

This is also very very true. You need to do some level of research or vetting prior. I find this part to be one of the most frustrating things when it comes to running a business. By that I mean, project management, and babysitting people.

I will give you a quick story that I have learned over time with bitter experience...

You want to hire people who can effectively manage their own time, and your projects. Typically these people are going to cost a bit more. But just like my other post, money is not the only consideration, it's time. Here is an example.

HIRE DESIGNER/PROGRAMMER #1
He always asks a lot of questions before starting a project, he has a clear understanding of what you want, he bangs out the mock up in 1-2 days, you approve it, he delivers early, or within the commitment he provided you. Obviously he is worth the money, and saves you time in the end. Your projects stay on task, and you can get ROI much faster.

HIRE DESIGNER/PROGRAMMER #2
He is often times cheaper, does not ask a lot of questions, does not deliver a mock up. During the process he rarely communicates, and you have to chase him down for updates. He doesn't deliver a mock up for you to critique, and then thinks he understands 100% what you want, and will notify you he has started on the CSS/HTML coding. You do not see the work until the end, it's often wrong, and you have to redo it.

This ends up costing you a lot of time, frustration, annoyance, and most of all money. By the time you pay the overages because #2 did not ask enough questions to give you an accurate bid, commitment time frame, and alike. You typically would have paid the same, or less than hiring #1.

In the end, you want to find good people who do quality work, give you accurate time commitments, communicate along the way, and know how to manage both their time and projects. Obviously someone who is a business, versus some hobbyist clown. While I concede that cost is always a consideration, it should not be in your top three things you consider when hiring someone IMHO.

sarettah · 06-23-2012, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

HIRE DESIGNER/PROGRAMMER #1
He always asks a lot of questions before starting a project.

Beaner/Carzy/McFadden Alert! Beep Beep Beep!!!! (because of previous discussions)

This is one of the hardest things (imho) for some clients to understand.

I have to ask questions to effectively work a project. Some think it is a pain in the ass because they feel that their communication is completely, utterly clear. and it may be to them.

BUT, in order for ME to effectively deliver YOUR vision I have to milk that vision from your brain into mine and osmosis does not work very well.

Good stuff here bf

.

Barefootsies · 06-23-2012, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarettah

This is one of the hardest things (imho) for some clients to understand.

I have to ask questions to effectively work a project. Some think it is a pain in the ass because they feel that their communication is completely, utterly clear. and it may be to them.

Good stuff here bf

It is a very very frustrating thing for most clients, including myself. A lot of clients, again including myself, do not have the technical skills or understanding. I just know how I need something to work and look for me to be able to use/sell it. However, I concede it is necessary evil, especially on larger projects where you are mapping out all of the things to a project.

While most ideas, or websites are days/months/years in the making of notes and links. When it comes time to get a bid, I basically spend half a day working out the project. That includes links of what I like in this site, or that site, how the navigation is going to work, and look. I will build a PDF of cut and pasted images from the different site examples.

If it requires a view point from the admin, surfer, worker bee, I try and include all of those as well. Just as I am not a designer or developer, most of them are not sales people and possess the marketing knowledge I have for my niche.

This I have found extremely helpful, but it frustrates me to no end. But I will say, it gives me much better end results, and ultimately that is what matters. So you can think of it as investing in your own final product by putting in this additional effort. It saves you a lot of time, frustration, back and forth foolishness.

That doesn't mean we do not find sometimes things that will not work, or must be changed in the middle. This happens often. I can't think of a single project that was 100% from beginning to end as mapped out. But as long as you do not expect your designer and programmer to do changes/modifications all for free, you should be fine.

B.Barnato · 06-23-2012, 10:41 AM

Before becoming a shot caller
one must have shots to call.

- B.Barnato

CaptainHowdy · 06-23-2012, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.Barnato

Before becoming a shot caller
one must have shots to call.

- B.Barnato

raymor · 06-23-2012, 11:16 AM

Barefootsies nailed it - do not outsource what you do well, what gives you an advantage over your competitors. These are called your "core competencies".

Google, or we, could reasonably outsource accounting, web design, infrastructure ... anything but algorithm design. The day Google outsources their search or adsense algorithms they are dead. Anything else is fair game, simply cost analysis.

Apple's core competencies are UI design and "community building" (marketing), so they outsource manufacturing, but must never outsource design.

bean-aid · 06-23-2012, 11:18 AM

I enjoy the relationship of having to state the goal with minimal communication and it gets done. I have found that at present and I'm not telling who.

Barefootsies · 06-23-2012, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beks001

Always quality feedback barefootsies! Thanks and getting ads out there now to outsource! To save a few hundred bucks and do myself and take a week part time to do minimum I could have them running an making $$$ instead in a day or two.

thanks for the kick in the pants

AlCapone · 06-23-2012, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

You need to know where you true skillsets and value are. I know for myself, I am better at sales, marketing, and the creative vision. I am more productive, and can generate more income and value for my business doing what I am good at versus that I am not.

I could do a lot of things myself, and have years ago. But where it could take me 4-8 hours to do something, an expert could do it in 1-2 hours. Typically for a few hundred bucks. What could I have been doing with those extra 6 hours to generate more money?

If you do not have the money, do it yourself. But if you can afford it, outsource.

On what planet does any Expert do ANYTHING for a few hundred bucks? You might get some low-level grunt to do something for that much.

Can you post examples of what you would have someone do for a few hundred bucks?

$5 submissions · 06-23-2012, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

You need to know where you true skillsets and value are. I know for myself, I am better at sales, marketing, and the creative vision. I am more productive, and can generate more income and value for my business doing what I am good at versus that I am not.

I could do a lot of things myself, and have years ago. But where it could take me 4-8 hours to do something, an expert could do it in 1-2 hours. Typically for a few hundred bucks. What could I have been doing with those extra 6 hours to generate more money?

If you do not have the money, do it yourself. But if you can afford it, outsource.

Solid gold advice. Also, ask for GUARANTEES from your provider

raymor · 06-23-2012, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaner

I enjoy the relationship of having to state the goal with minimal communication and it gets done. I have found that at present and I'm not telling who.

Stating the GOAL rather the method is very important when you work with someone who is good. Sometimes we have people call with a long, complex explanation of some complex thing they want to do, integrating some new software package or whatever. After a few minutes I ask "what is the business goal?" They continue on about some script they saw and I repeat, "what is the BUSINESS GOAL?" Two minutes later, I let them know it's done, I just turned on a setting in Strongbox or whatever to accomplish what they wanted to accomplish.

bean-aid · 06-23-2012, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymor

Stating the GOAL rather the method is very important when you work with someone who is good. Sometimes we have people call with a long, complex explanation of some complex thing they want to do, integrating some new software package or whatever. After a few minutes I ask "what is the business goal?" They continue on about some script they saw and I repeat, "what is the BUSINESS GOAL?" Two minutes later, I let them know it's done, I just turned on a setting in Strongbox or whatever to accomplish what they wanted to accomplish.

I think a lot of people lose site on the *objective*. I think a lot of questions upfront, or a lot of direction given, creates this haze of confusion. When 2 people can communicate with minimal words, then a successful relationship is in the works. It is hard to find it.

sarettah · 06-23-2012, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaner

I think a lot of people lose site on the *objective*. I think a lot of questions upfront, or a lot of direction given, creates this haze of confusion. When 2 people can communicate with minimal words, then a successful relationship is in the works. It is hard to find it.

Glad you found the thread :p

As I have said to you before, if you find someone that you mesh with, that's great.

But as you say, it can take a long time to find someone like that.

I have found that that type of relationship evolves as people work together on stuff and learn each other's vocabulary and quirks.

Questions up front help to make sure that the developer understands what the client wants and yes I agree with both you and Ray that one of the first questions should be "What are you trying to do?", "What is the the goal?".

.

bean-aid · 06-23-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beks001

I've been thinking of outsourcing actually wp setups and blog development vs doing myself. I think it's time to take a chance and reinvest more versus spending time building. Just curious if most of you do this aspect on your own or outsource it? Seems trying to reach 100 built out is tough alone

I got a bit sidetracked on your original question so this is what I think:

If you have money to outsource then do that for the grunt work but my question is.

Why are you building these blogs? If they are to promote a bunch of sponsors then you are setting yourself up for failure. If you are building for something that you are personally vested in, then keep going and outsource when you can.

Barefootsies · 06-24-2012, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarettah

Questions up front help to make sure that the developer understands what the client wants and yes I agree with both you and Ray that one of the first questions should be "What are you trying to do?", "What is the the goal?".

nakeddutch · 06-24-2012, 02:11 PM

Where do you even begin?

signupdamnit · 06-24-2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarettah

Beaner/Carzy/McFadden Alert! Beep Beep Beep!!!! (because of previous discussions)

This is one of the hardest things (imho) for some clients to understand.

I have to ask questions to effectively work a project. Some think it is a pain in the ass because they feel that their communication is completely, utterly clear. and it may be to them.

BUT, in order for ME to effectively deliver YOUR vision I have to milk that vision from your brain into mine and osmosis does not work very well.

Good stuff here bf

.

Yes and in the corporate world there is even a common position which in part acts as a liason between the customer and the programmer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_analyst

Often in adult the programmers are essentially taking on this job too on behalf of the client.

raymor · 06-24-2012, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlCapone

On what planet does any Expert do ANYTHING for a few hundred bucks? You might get some low-level grunt to do something for that much.

Can you post examples of what you would have someone do for a few hundred bucks?

Sounds like I need to be charging you more .

Actually I have no idea if you're a client or not, I normally don't connect GFY nicks with cluent names. We do a lot of things foe "a few hundred bucks" or less and I think an expert often costs less than a newbie, though, because the expert will do in twenty minutes what the would take the newbie three hours. Once in while, we finish a job while on the phone with the client ordering it, but I've learned to wait an hour before telling them it's done because people don't like paying $39 for ten minutes of work. What they GET for that $39 is an excellent value, but they don't want to know that with fifteen years of experience, I can do it in ten minutes.

VladS · 06-24-2012, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymor;19022197 [...

Once in while, we finish a job while on the phone with the client ordering it, but I've learned to wait an hour before telling them it's done because people don't like paying $39 for ten minutes of work. What they GET for that $39 is an excellent value, but they don't want to know that with fifteen years of experience, I can do it in ten minutes.

Spot on with that.

Barefootsies · 06-25-2012, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymor

We do a lot of things foe "a few hundred bucks" or less and I think an expert often costs less than a newbie, though, because the expert will do in twenty minutes what the would take the newbie three hours. Once in while, we finish a job while on the phone with the client ordering it, but I've learned to wait an hour before telling them it's done because people don't like paying $39 for ten minutes of work. What they GET for that $39 is an excellent value, but they don't want to know that with fifteen years of experience, I can do it in ten minutes.

Summed up nicely.

06-23-2012, 11:16 AM	#10
raymor Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,745	Barefootsies nailed it - do not outsource what you do well, what gives you an advantage over your competitors. These are called your "core competencies". Google, or we, could reasonably outsource accounting, web design, infrastructure ... anything but algorithm design. The day Google outsources their search or adsense algorithms they are dead. Anything else is fair game, simply cost analysis. Apple's core competencies are UI design and "community building" (marketing), so they outsource manufacturing, but must never outsource design. Last edited by raymor; 06-23-2012 at 11:19 AM..

06-24-2012, 02:11 PM	#20
nakeddutch Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,331	Where do you even begin? __________________ Freja18 dfans.co - A.I. PORN Content Allowed A.I. Image & Video Generator A.I. FILMS on YOUTUBE! dfans.co/aivideos - A.I. Videos on Patreon!

06-23-2012, 09:18 AM	#1
beks001 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,837	Outsource vs Doing I've been thinking of outsourcing actually wp setups and blog development vs doing myself. I think it's time to take a chance and reinvest more versus spending time building. Just curious if most of you do this aspect on your own or outsource it? Seems trying to reach 100 built out is tough alone

06-23-2012, 09:36 AM	#2
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	You need to know where you true skillsets and value are. I know for myself, I am better at sales, marketing, and the creative vision. I am more productive, and can generate more income and value for my business doing what I am good at versus that I am not. I could do a lot of things myself, and have years ago. But where it could take me 4-8 hours to do something, an expert could do it in 1-2 hours. Typically for a few hundred bucks. What could I have been doing with those extra 6 hours to generate more money? If you do not have the money, do it yourself. But if you can afford it, outsource. __________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?" Last edited by Barefootsies; 06-23-2012 at 09:37 AM..

06-23-2012, 09:36 AM	#3
DWB Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Encrypted. Access denied. Posts: 31,779	Just be careful to make sure you're not spending all your time managing the outsourced people. It can be time consuming and counter productive if you get the wrong staff.

06-23-2012, 10:41 AM	#8
B.Barnato So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,618	Before becoming a shot caller one must have shots to call. - B.Barnato

06-23-2012, 11:18 AM	#11
bean-aid So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: the land of woke sleuths Posts: 16,493	I enjoy the relationship of having to state the goal with minimal communication and it gets done. I have found that at present and I'm not telling who.